Brambles Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Hi, The EIBC marking is without a doubt the date code. The capital i is most likely a 1 as cap i is not used as can be confused with a 1, by most manufactures. Most premium manufacturers for many years have used much longer numbers to include manufacting date and date of 1st fill. It will also include the actual factory it has been made in. Budget batteries tend not to have this information. It would look like the battery was made April 2011 but no guarantee this is correct but is very likely. It does certainly not look like a newer battrey. At a guess it is a reasonably good budget quality starter battery with deep discharge capabilty. So is not ideal for the task in hand which is not unlike many batteries which are being fitted. Fine as what I call a buffer battery for coffee breaks but not for numerous night halts as will only have a cycle life of about 150 cycles down to 50% or less. If you were to pair up this battrey I would be looking at a cheap budget battery like Tayna's powerline XV110MF which comes from a similar stable. This way you can expect both batteries to fail or be due to fail around the same time and then start again with two new fresh batteries. However it would be worth testing the existing battery 1st as if still under your dealers warranty then you should get a free replacement. Forget this, sorry, I would just throw it back at the dealer and tell him he has fitted an old rubbish battery and is not acceptable, but of course in a polite but firm way. OK, back to what I was trying to mention. If you take out the fill caps and give them an inspection it may tell us something. 1st inspect the underside of caps for deposits, for a battrey under a year old they should be clean and no deposits. What you do not want to see is any dark grey or brownish deposits. Very light grey is normal which leaves us in a grey area ( no pun intended) over its condition. Next inspect the Electrolyte, under a year old I would expect it still to be at max or only very slightly below if used a lot. There should be no scum ( looks like a trace of oil floatng on water) floating on the top of the acid, and no specs of lead or other material floating about in the bright clear acid. You should also be able to see the top of the plates. They should be clean looking lead although may have a slight dark appearance , they get darker and darker as they age. The separators should not be wrinkled and buckled at all unless it looks manufactured and is symetrical and regular in all the cells. So basically dirty acid, dark stained caps, buckled swollen plates or separators are all signs of an aging battery, but of course does not guarantee it does not have other faults). Also check the ends of the battery are not swollen and you can gently deform the ends in slightly without contacting any swollen plates. Now assuming all looks good and you have decided not to thump the dealer over the head with the battery then I personally would go for a budget flooded open battery to pair up with it assuning it would meet my power needs. Budget 110Ah is more likely to be 90Ah, and then you can only discharge 50% so useable power with the two batteries is 90AH (45Ah each). If you think you are going to need more than you blow caution to the wind and use more out of the battereis and accept they are going to last a lot less time but worth it for only a £70 investment now. The other route to make sure you have plenty of power is just to go for two new batteries which are premium semi traction types from the likes of Varta, Bosch, Banner or Moura. Even Varta now is difficult and expensive because they have revamped their ranges and gone all dual purpose. They have brought out a new range (a while ago now) of deep cycle which wil give up to 700 cycles but I have not looked at prices yet and dare say will not fit anyway. This now really only leaves us in the UK with Banner being the readily available semi traction battery and Bosch ( owned by Varta)., teh majority of what available for most suppliers being these ruddy dual purpose batteries where yeh insides come from making deep discharge capable starter batteries dues to so many ots of elctronics and of course to meet teh needs fof many boat owners. There wil be others under various brand but not easily found. Everyone seems to now go for the dual purpose with 150 to 200 cycles and not 400 to 500 cycles despite what the suppliers say they are, lies and more lies...sorry..artistc licence they use to quote those figures. Not sure where I am now with this. Ah yes, going to have another search but so far have not found any deep cycle leisure battery using the exact same style of case but is certainly very similar to many of the budget leisure batteries which now use all in one push fit caps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 If it was overall height of 190 I would say it was equivalent of a Yuasa Professional 019 starter battery but as if as you say only 170 then a bit of a mystery if rated at 95Ah. Certainly comes from the same stable as the yuasa professional batteries so could be an 017 but would be 88Ah and 175 high. I take it the 95Ah is written on the warning label on the top. Are you measuring to the top of the sides or the very top of the lid? Easy to be misled by this when measuring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Even if it is a Yuasa leisureline or rebadged leisure line it is a rediculous 120 cycles at 50% dod. Not good for heavy use at all. Amazing how much a photo can tell you wot ho!!!. edit - I am deliberately posting lots of separate posts hoping this page rolls over to next page and narrows down again to make it easier to read posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 I assume it is not just me who has got a wide page!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatsupdoc Posted March 21, 2013 Author Share Posted March 21, 2013 Brambles - Wow! Thanks for all of that extremely useful info (for me, at least). I'll have a good poke around tomorrow and look for clues. My thinking now is that the battery is probably a moderately decent budget type - after all the Flash is definitely the entry-level Chausson, so why would they provide a very expensive battery when it's hidden under the seats and unlikely to be seen by most customers ... However the question does remain as to the age of the thing, and I will be pursuing that with Lowdhams. Why would it not have a label if it was brand-new (unless they want to hide the fact that it is a cheaper variety). It certainly doesn't look like a new battery (to my very untutored eyes). So it would seem to be a straight choice between matching it with another budget battery, and not expecting a very long life, or getting two decent ones. We are having solar panels fitted (2 x 125 w) with an MPPT regulator, and although we would want to go for several days without EHU, it would not be exclusively so. Also we are probably getting a 1500 w inverter - to power the microwave (for no more than a few minutes at a time). So maybe those factors would suggest biting the bullet and spending some (more) money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatsupdoc Posted March 21, 2013 Author Share Posted March 21, 2013 Brambles - 2013-03-21 9:23 PM I assume it is not just me who has got a wide page!! All your posts (and all the others) look fine ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Brambles - 2013-03-21 9:23 PM I assume it is not just me who has got a wide page!! Nar it just happens sometimes one thread shows up wide all the others you look at are OK most frustrating when reading when it's wide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 whatsupdoc - 2013-03-21 11:01 PM ...My thinking now is that the battery is probably a moderately decent budget type - after all the Flash is definitely the entry-level Chausson, so why would they provide a very expensive battery when it's hidden under the seats and unlikely to be seen by most customers ... This is a weird attitude to take... Chausson is a reputable motorhome manufacturer and (assuming the Chausson factory fits the leisure-battery before sending vehicles to dealerships) won't choose a battery that looks like yours. Chausson may not fit expensive gel or AGM batteries (few motorhome manufacturers do), but they won't fit junk as company-policy either. If they did, as soon as a buyer discovered this had happened he/she would spread the knowledge far and wide and Chausson's reputation would plummet. It's possible that Brambles is right about "EIBC" being a date-code. It would follow the historic USA letter/number standard with "E" indicating the 4th month (April) and "1" indicating 2011. If that's the case, then your battery pre-dates your motorhome by almost two years. Surely you can't believe Chausson has shelves full of old batteries that it stuffs under cab-seats in the hope buyers won't notice? It may be possible to guess what type of battery yours is based on its weight/dimensions, though its 350mm (nominal) length x 175mm(W) and 175mm(H) makes this trickier as this is a fairly uncommon size. As rules of thumb, the heavier the battery the better and genuine 'leisure-batteries' tend to weigh more than similarly dimensioned starter/dual-purpose batteries. For example, a Vechline 354mm(L) x 175mm(W) x 175mm(H) "Full Start" 92Ah starter/dual-purpose battery weighs 23.5kg, whereas the identical-dimensions Vechline "Full Energy" 110Ah leisure-use-only battery weighs 26kg. Brambles's "At a guess it is a reasonably good budget quality starter battery with deep discharge capabilty..." is very much a guess. There's no way of knowing from your photos what type of battery this is, nor its quality, nor how it will perform, nor how long it will last. You shouldn't allow yourself to be in a position where it might be felt necessary or desirable (particularly as you've no battery-related background) for you to be making checks to try to establish this battery's condition. As Brambles advises, you should "just throw it back at the dealer and tell him he has fitted an old rubbish battery and is not acceptable, but of course in a polite but firm way". A reasonable-quality new battery suitable for leisure purposes, in the size fitted to your Chausson, will cost, say, £80 retail. The battery you've got is essentially valueless, because nothing is known about its specification or background. It's very definitely not what the buyer of a new motorhome should expect to be fitted to his new vehicle, and it's not something that he should tolerate. As you will be spending a significant amount of cash on solar panels and an inverter, you'd be foolish to hope that this unlabelled battery would be appropriate for powering your planned electrical systems, either alone or linked to another battery. Frankly, unless this unknown-quantity battery is replaced by one with known provenance and capabilities, you'll just be storing up problems for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Dave, whats written on the top label which is a white out on the photos. There shgould be data like CCA 400A or whatever, 95Ah and some other info, can you post it please as it will immediately tell me what kind of battery it is. If it is a good leisure battery then the CCA should only be around 300 or 400 Amps or not even at all. Also the reserve capacity may be given which is only applicable to starter batteries. What I am hoping for is a DIN code 5 or 6 digit number. I am convinced there must be more on that label than just plain white, even if the label has been removed there may be a trace of what was printed. Academic as I, like Derek, think you should chuck it, but will be useful to if you can go to dealer armed with information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 A follow up to my last posting... I said "It's possible that Brambles is right about "EIBC" being a date-code. It would follow the historic USA letter/number standard with "E" indicating the 4th month (April) and "1" indicating 2011." In fact, "E" (being the 5th letter of the alphabet, not the 4th) would indicate the 5th month of the year which is May. On this webpage http://www.allpar.com/fix/batteries.html the following advice is given... "There's a manufacturer's shipping code on almost every automobile battery. Since the life you'll get from the battery is dependent on when it was made, not necessarily when it was put into service, you'll want to check this code so you can be sure the battery you buy is relatively "fresh" and hasn't been sitting on the shelf for a couple of years. The shipping code usually appears on a sticker on the battery or a stamp burned into the battery case itself. The code is a string of letters numbers, but all the real information you need is in the first two characters. Usually, the code starts with a letter that corresponds with the month--'A' for January through 'L' for December (some manufacturer's codes omit 'I'; for them, 'M' indicates December). The second character of the code is a numeral that stands for the year. Thus, a code starting 'A2' indicates that the battery was shipped in January 1992; 'B2' indicates February 1992, and so on. (Delco reverses the letter and the number; a Delco code starting with '2C' indicates the battery was shipped in March 1992.)" It does need saying though that this advice is pretty old (note the 1990s dates) and - as has been discussed before on this forum - it may be impossible for the buyer of a modern battery to identify from the battery's markings how old it is. Having said that, if there's genuinely no data (other than the standard 6 symbols) on the top label Brambles refers to, this would be even more circumstantial evidence that the battery is ancient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 I am beginning to think it might even be 2001. Not sure if I am serious or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Brambles - 2013-03-22 7:37 PM I am beginning to think it might even be 2001. Not sure if I am serious or not. Looking at the state of it you could be right :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatsupdoc Posted March 22, 2013 Author Share Posted March 22, 2013 There is nothing on the label on the top of the battery, save the symbols that can be seen. The rest is just white, with nothing else discernible. Apparently the dealer does supply batteries on some of the Chausson range, but (I suspect because of its location under the seat) the batteries on the Flash 04 are fitted by Chausson themselves. Lowdhams have contacted them and are awaiting a reply. I did have a look at the fill caps and they were clean - the acid was clear and I could see the plates which also looked good. If the battery had had a label indicating manufacturer & capacity I probably wouldn't have raised the question in the first place. BUT not having a label is obviously suspicious. The real problem is proving that the battery is not new - if that is indeed the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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