WAKE UP BRITIAN

[FRANKP60]

Found below message on another forum,perhaps you could pass on to your local Parking officer,can but hope someone will see the sense behind it.

 

www.latribunadetoledo.es/noticia/ZF3AD28...acoger/autocaravanas

 

Translation below.

 

Total of 30 municipalities in the province will perform appropriate works to provide in their municipal space to accommodate campers, under the agreement signed yesterday with the mayors council, which will provide € 1,000 to each village to carry out the work, as said the provincial president, Arturo Garcia-Blight, who moved that the next year will create a basis for proceeding with this proposal intends to delve into the politics of the institution to promote domestic tourism.

And, as Garcia-Blight said during the ceremony, held in the Plenary Hall of the Provincial Palace, tourism aboard RV traveling is becoming the choice of many families to enjoy their holiday. So much so, that the RV park in Europe consists of more than one million units, with an annual growth well above the average passenger. Spain, meanwhile, has about 25,000.

It is estimated that each year cross the Spanish border in about 200,000 RV traveling around half a million tourists, a flow that gives the Spanish tourism business a figure higher than the 280 million euros a year, according to figures from the past day were revealed.

Unlike tourists who stay in apartments, hotels, hostels or campsites, motorhome tourism requires no modification to your host environment. So, you only need a space of 28 square meters for each vehicle in a quiet and safe. A simple existing parking on public roads increases the supply of tourist beds in any population.

According to your habits, harboring motorhome tourism in a small town you want to promote your resources can mean an increase in off-season tourism, wider dissemination of the historical, landscape and local culture or trade enhancement, especially the restoration.

The municipalities that have joined this first round are Aldeanueva of Barbarroya, Burujón, Cabañas de Yepes, Carranque, Plums, Consuegra, Dosbarrios, Fuensalida, Gerindote, Guadamur, inheritance, Huerta de Valdecarábanos, Lominchar, Malpica, Mora, Navalcán, The Navalucillos, Ocaña, Olias, Oropesa, San Bartolome de las Open, San Martin de Pusa, Segurilla, Talavera, El Toboso, Torrijos, Valdeverdeja, Villacañas, Villafranca and Yeles

 

[Guest JudgeMental]

2nd thread on same subject..but prefer your title :-D

 

Ever watch the excellent bbc2 program the planners? A perfect example of why nothing changes in the UK, with all the NIMBY's up in arms about any type of development....and I mean anything, its a disgrace. And any plans even if approved by council planning office, invariably falls apart when it gets to the easily influenced and unqualified Planning committee. Watch on iplayer it's an eye opener,. The odd success make for great TV

 

On top of this you would probably have the main clubs lobbying against it on the sly.......plus local campsites up in arms. We need change in this country on all levels or we will never progress....

[Muswell]

Yes, my favourites are the people who buy somewhere knowing there are restrictions and then complain about lack of democracy when their elected councillors reject their plans. Like the one who bought a hut near the Dee, cheap,because of the flooding and then built a hill. If they'd accepted that every developer in Cheshire would have used it as a precedent but to hear him talk you would think he was Churchill during the war.

[JohnP]

Like the ones who purchased a house near the church in a village and then complained about the church bells being rung.

Those that don't want nuclear power, wind turbines etc.. Have they thought how they are going to power/run their homes in the future?

[rupert123]

So you all reckon Spain is a great example of how the UK should be run, I reckon it is about time you woke up

[colin]

Got to say, if spanish local councils back it's proboly a waste of money, they have a history of backing a loser, Bruce in a thread some time back told us of how cheap the local rates where, turns out it was all smoke and mirrors, they where busy bankrupting rhe country.

[Rayjsj]

A better attitude toward motorhomes, and the Tourists that they bring, wouldn't go 'Amiss' in the UK,

we have a very short sighted attitude on temporary parking, for shopping and sightseeing, as well as for overnight parking, CL's and CS's are ok as far as they go, (IF you are a Member, which many foreign visitors are NOT) but hardly any are in Towns or Cities. Our financial situation (banking and Country debt,) is not much better than Spain's either. Some folk ARE trying, with 'Brit-stops' etc., but it's not enough. Too many 'Not in MY back yard' people around in the UK. Here in West Wales it's not Too bad, YET, but the local councils are busy putting up 'Don't or else' signs , even here now. Ray

[Muswell]

rupert123 - 2013-03-22 10:44 AM

 

So you all reckon Spain is a great example of how the UK should be run, I reckon it is about time you woke up

 

I don't think I was saying that. I was supporting the planners. Spain is a great example of what happens when you get a weak planning system. I went to translate for a friend a few years back and suggested a particular road near Valencia because the map showed it to be an area of great beauty. Mile after mile of urbanizaciones stretching back a long way from the sea. All in the few years since I bought my map.

 

I have been impressed how the planners do try to balance the need for housing with the moans of some people whose newish houses stuffed someone else's views.

[Guest JudgeMental]

There was something on tv about a more enlightened local council dropping parking to10p an hour and interest free loans for those opening new businesses, to help rejuvenate the ghost town of the local high street.....And it is working, with life coming back to a community. but truth is more local authority's are lazy and clueless and prefer to police and fine and generally harass the public.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Also...But we need to build more homes..another example of the selfish I'm alright jack and not in my back yard attitude that is killing this country

[rupert123]

JudgeMental - 2013-03-22 12:37 PM

 

There was something on tv about a more enlightened local council dropping parking to10p an hour and interest free loans for those opening new businesses, to help rejuvenate the ghost town of the local high street.....And it is working, with life coming back to a community. but truth is more local authority's are lazy and clueless and prefer to police and fine and generally harass the public.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Also...But we need to build more homes..another example of the selfish I'm alright jack and not in my back yard attitude that is killing this country

 

I to watch the planning program Eddie and on the whole I reckon they get it about right. Your example above about a local council shows not all are idiots and some are really good, our two local county councils are Gwynedd and Conwy, Gwynedd on the whole is ok, Conwy seems terrible. I reckon we are all the same when it comes to protesting and should not be to quick about condeming others. Where I live the planning is the Snowdonia National Park and they are the worlds worst for getting any planning past but on the whole I agree with them and we cannot just build what we want in areas like Snowdonia. On the whole I do not care how many houses they stick up just as long they are all in SE England. As for this Spanish thing I note the money mentioned is 1000 euro, they will not even get a bloke to lean on a spade for that.

[Guest JudgeMental]

But H in this day and age local government should not be a lottery of good or bad. And in "the planners" the planning professionals have on the most part been in favor, while local objections are primarily a fear of devaluing the prices of their properties. lets face it that in the most part is the driving force of these objections.

 

There was a great example of unreasonable selfishness where a chap in a small terrace of cottages objected to building two more at end of alley..thankfully common sense prevailed on that one

 

We need to build.....and Aires as well :-D

[euroserv]

It is neither my fault, nor the motor caravan owners of the UK (or for that matter anywhere) 's fault that the provision of parking facilities for caravans and campers are resisted with ferocity by local inhabitants of communities where they are proposed.

 

We have all been affected by issues of vandalism, theft and damage left in the wake of so called 'travellers'. We have all seen the mess that has been left in their wake and we have all read stories in the press and seen reports on television of local councils failing to get them moved, and the Police have also been quite powerless to remove these itinerant and undesirable people from what is often privately owned land.

 

If the good folk of this forum think that it is a good idea to open up an area of their home town for the parking of anyone that wants to visit that town, and considers the risk of those visitors spoiling that area and the near vicinity for as long as they see fit; I wish them luck. These people are vermin and the law is an ass. They should be herded to the nearest land-fill where given the state of the public places that they have spoiled in Leicester; they should feel quite at home.

 

I am not a NIMBY, in fact I say Not In Anybody's Back Yard; thanks!

 

If a local council wishes to provide such spaces they will have to be charged for and there must be strict rules regarding payment, clamping or destruction of offending vehicles. Even the travellers would not want to pay £10 a day for such places, while this seems a reasonable charge while encouraging tourism. Car owners will be upset if their charges are any higher though......

 

The other travellers should be fined on the spot for trespassing and should have council tax levied upon arrival plus a refundable deposit of £250 per vehicle to make sure they leave the site as they find it. That should keep them moving.

 

Probably we should also tag them so that you can prove which one stole the cat off your vehicle or nicked your TV but that might be a bit extreme. If your community contributes nothing to society, and actually damages it; your human rights are questionable.

 

Now; with all that considered, do you still think these sites are a good idea?

 

Happy Friday

 

Nick

 

PS.

If we close the borders NOW we won't need any more homes!

[jocie]

Not only do you talk a lot of sense when advising about technical matters a la Fiat technology , Nick , but I thoroughly agree with your sentiments about travellers and illegal immigrants! >:-)

[Muswell]

euroserv - 2013-03-22 1:03 PM

 

I

 

PS.

If we close the borders NOW we won't need any more homes!

 

And If Scotland gets indepence?

[yeti]

I am considering having these printed on an adhesive backing with a view to sticking on parking signs and meters of car parks that do not permit motorhomes to park.

 

"To the Chief Executive,Mayor,Chairman or Leader of Council. I was intending to park my motorhome here with a view to undertake some shopping and possibly have a meal. This would have entailed a total spend in the order of £100-150 and possibly more if other shopping opportunities presented themselves.

Due to the regulations posted I am now forced to move on and shop where my money more welcome.

I am sorry that you have chosen to exclude income to the area and I am sorry that your area is dying due to this attitude."

So what do you think?

[silverback]

TOTALLY agree Nick >:-)

and Yeti thats a good idea, might get some made up myself,...probably get nicked for littering *-) 8-) :-D

jonathan

[bolero boy]

Muswell - 2013-03-22 1:40 PM

 

euroserv - 2013-03-22 1:03 PM

 

I

 

PS.

If we close the borders NOW we won't need any more homes!

 

And If Scotland gets indepence?

Then the scots will we as 'foreign' as those to whom we are trying (in vain) to close our borders.

I dont mind any group (Scots, Travellers etc) opting out, but they have to opt out of the good stuff (benefits etc) as well as the bad (living with those damned Sassenachs).

[euroserv]

Muswell - 2013-03-22 1:40 PM

 

euroserv - 2013-03-22 1:03 PM

 

I

 

PS.

If we close the borders NOW we won't need any more homes!

 

And If Scotland gets indepence?

 

Not sure I understand the question but I thought the idea was to treat Hadrian's wall as a zip and detach it. Just push it a few miles away. Nice. See how they manage without our money. Same for Wales.

[Guest JudgeMental]

Here we go with the nasty little englander brigade...Why do you think that major European nations have a network of 1000's of aires that operate in a relaxed manner and work well, when just the very thought of a few here brings on fits of apoplexy and racism. Not surprised as I gave up on holidaying here years ago

 

first it will be close the borders, next freight trains through the tunnel full of undesirables....So we end up with the kind of society, that we sacrificed millions of our young for in 2 world wars....

[Champstar]

My god this is a first....I tend to see myself agreeing with the Judge!!!!!!!!!!!! (lol) (lol) (lol)

[euroserv]

JudgeMental - 2013-03-22 2:48 PM

 

Here we go with the nasty little englander brigade...Why do you think that major European nations have a network of 1000's of aires that operate in a relaxed manner and work well, when just the very thought of a few here brings on fits of apoplexy and racism. Not surprised as I gave up on holidaying here years ago

 

first it will be close the borders, next freight trains through the tunnel full of undesirables....So we end up with the kind of society, that we sacrificed millions of our young for in 2 world wars....

 

Sir,

 

We agree on most things but it seems reasonable that we will not see eye to eye at some point. If we can discuss this without me being labelled a racist (which i am not), I would appreciate it.

 

I have never used an Aire so my knowledge is based on passing them and the descriptions provided by members that do. As i understand it; most are away from towns and are at the side of main routes so that lorry drivers and tourists may take a break and or rest over night. I also gather that crime is sometimes a problem on these sites but there is not generally a problem with groups of people turning up and residing there for any length of time and trashing them with their domestic, animal and human waste.

In fact; is there a widespread problem across Europe with itinerant 'travellers' that behave in a similar way to the ones we see in the UK?

 

Are the Aires that are in village/town locations regulated in some way? Do they charge for using them? Are there limits on how long you can stay? How is this enforced?

 

If there are no problems with Aires in France or Spain, is it because of the regulations and do we possess the same standards of legislation and enforcement?

 

Why do we have the problems and therefore prejudices that we do?

 

Eddie; I think it simply comes down to the fact that we are afraid, given past experiences, that if this goes wrong; and we rightly suspect that it will, what will the authorities be able to do about it?

 

I think we have to address our laws first, and then open the doors second. If we had no bad experiences to base our fears on it would be a different matter.

 

We are not racist, or even prejudiced; we are afraid. Conquer the fear first. If we can see that this is a safe idea that cannot be abused and the law has the teeth to tackle anti social use of these sites I would bet that most folk would welcome the idea. I would.

 

Nick

 

PS. I have nothing against Scotland or Wales but get a bit miffed when all they (or their elected representatives) seem to want to do is detach themselves from England. Do they not realise that Independence means financially independent as well? Do they think that England's (albeit slightly down-graded) credit rating will be granted to them too when they cut ties with the Bank of England? What exactly is the net worth or GDP of Scotland, never mind Wales? Hopelessly stupid political posturing. You will see...

 

PPS. "Freight trains through the tunnel full of undesirables" What on earth is wrong with that? If they are 'undesirables' that have been cheating us out of benefits and leeching off our health service they hardly deserve first class tickets out of here, do they? The clue is in the term 'Undesirable'.

 

PPPS. I am heartily sick of hearing how LEGAL migrants arrive in the UK and have immediate use of our health facilities, benefits and social housing, without having contributed anything to our economy. There is a simple solution. Each time a LEGAL migrant gains any benefit that is greater than their contribution, their home state government receives an invoice from ours. It would be a matter of weeks before citizens of Eastern European countries were re-called and prevented from leaving again. Why should we be paying so much to the EU AND be providing homes, healthcare and benefits to people that have contributed ZILCH to our country? No windows on that freight train thanks.

[mikejkay]

I have stayed in designated parking spots in Brittany. Two nights maximum and no facilities. I was told that all municipalities were obliged to provide these. Foolishly, I tried to beat the system by staying for three nights, this was France after all. Deservedly, I got clobbered with an on the spot fine on the morning after the third night. Any such facilities in the UK would have to be policed, but at least we have no shortage of enforcers who are experienced in lurking in the bushes or around corners waitng to pounce.

[Rayjsj]

euroserv - 2013-03-22 1:03 PM

 

It is neither my fault, nor the motor caravan owners of the UK (or for that matter anywhere) 's fault that the provision of parking facilities for caravans and campers are resisted with ferocity by local inhabitants of communities where they are proposed.

 

We have all been affected by issues of vandalism, theft and damage left in the wake of so called 'travellers'. We have all seen the mess that has been left in their wake and we have all read stories in the press and seen reports on television of local councils failing to get them moved, and the Police have also been quite powerless to remove these itinerant and undesirable people from what is often privately owned land.

 

If the good folk of this forum think that it is a good idea to open up an area of their home town for the parking of anyone that wants to visit that town, and considers the risk of those visitors spoiling that area and the near vicinity for as long as they see fit; I wish them luck. These people are vermin and the law is an ass. They should be herded to the nearest land-fill where given the state of the public places that they have spoiled in Leicester; they should feel quite at home.

 

I am not a NIMBY, in fact I say Not In Anybody's Back Yard; thanks!

 

If a local council wishes to provide such spaces they will have to be charged for and there must be strict rules regarding payment, clamping or destruction of offending vehicles. Even the travellers would not want to pay £10 a day for such places, while this seems a reasonable charge while encouraging tourism. Car owners will be upset if their charges are any higher though......

 

The other travellers should be fined on the spot for trespassing and should have council tax levied upon arrival plus a refundable deposit of £250 per vehicle to make sure they leave the site as they find it. That should keep them moving.

 

Probably we should also tag them so that you can prove which one stole the cat off your vehicle or nicked your TV but that might be a bit extreme. If your community contributes nothing to society, and actually damages it; your human rights are questionable.

 

Now; with all that considered, do you still think these sites are a good idea?

 

Happy Friday

 

Nick

 

PS.

If we close the borders NOW we won't need any more homes!

 

I entirely agree with respect to ANYONE who overstays say a 'two night' rule, after that they get a large fine. AND that includes so called 'travellers'. If they STILL refuse to move, say after 5 nights, bring in the Council Bulldozer and 'nudge' them away.

But, blanket bans on Parking, overnight stays etc., does Nothing to recognize this growing form of Tourism, If you want to STOP travellers, Enforce the laws that already exist, without 'human rights' pussyfooting about. Making a Court order necessary. As I said I am sure that 'Travellers' get short shrift from French or Spanish local Authorities, who seem to be able to tell , Who is a Tourist and who is a 'Scumbag traveller'. Why can't our authorities do the same ? Ray

 

just read a later post, about Scottish and Welsh independence, which seems to beg an opinion,:

Quite a lot of Gt Britain's recent (40 years or so) wealth has come from the North Sea, via Scotland in the form of Oil, likewise the Victorian Industrial Revolution was 'Fueled' by Welsh 'Steam Coal', and we relied on it until recently, Saying that Both are now a 'Burden' on the British economy is a Bit 'Rich',

The MAIN reason for our Countries 'ILL's lie in the 'Square Mile' of the City of London, crooks,frauds and Liars, Who Blame anyone else, but themselves. I am an Ex Londoner and am Ashamed of what it has become. As for Independence ? I prefer 'the Union', but understand why they feel alienated from a Westminster controlled Government.

 

[euroserv]

mikejkay - 2013-03-22 3:30 PM

 

I have stayed in designated parking spots in Brittany. Two nights maximum and no facilities. I was told that all municipalities were obliged to provide these. Foolishly, I tried to beat the system by staying for three nights, this was France after all. Deservedly, I got clobbered with an on the spot fine on the morning after the third night. Any such facilities in the UK would have to be policed, but at least we have no shortage of enforcers who are experienced in lurking in the bushes or around corners waitng to pounce.

 

Good point Sir,

 

Remember though it would need to be an on the spot fine. Our 'lurkers' are only able to put a sticker on your windscreen and ask you to pay by post! Even the rights of private land owners to clamp offending vehicles have been largely removed by politically correct morons. If a sign says NO PARKING OR YOU WILL BE CLAMPED AND CHARGED £50 FOR REMOVAL, why would you risk parking there?

 

Itinerant, ignorant people will ignore the fines. Do 'travellers' have postal addresses? Would you have paid the fine presented to you if you had been able to send it in the post? Probably; but you get my point.

 

Thinking about this a bit more.....

The site that you mentioned was FREE for a couple of nights?

Can you imagine such a thing happening here? Can you imagine that Campers would be able to park for free while car drivers were having to cough up the typically exorbitant charges that they have to pay?

I can imagine hell freezing over first.

[Muswell]

JudgeMental - 2013-03-22 2:48 PM

 

first it will be close the borders, next freight trains through the tunnel full of undesirables....So we end up with the kind of society, that we sacrificed millions of our young for in 2 world wars....

 

And then if the Spanish start to deport all the Brits who've gone to live there?