WAKE UP BRITIAN

[Muswell]

How do the Spanish police distinguish between "wild-campers" and "travellers"?

[Derek Uzzell]

euroserv - 2013-03-22 3:26 PM

 

I have never used an Aire so my knowledge is based on passing them and the descriptions provided by members that do. As i understand it; most are away from towns and are at the side of main routes so that lorry drivers and tourists may take a break and or rest over night. I also gather that crime is sometimes a problem on these sites but there is not generally a problem with groups of people turning up and residing there for any length of time and trashing them with their domestic, animal and human waste.

In fact; is there a widespread problem across Europe with itinerant 'travellers' that behave in a similar way to the ones we see in the UK?

 

Are the Aires that are in village/town locations regulated in some way? Do they charge for using them? Are there limits on how long you can stay? How is this enforced?

 

If there are no problems with Aires in France or Spain, is it because of the regulations and do we possess the same standards of legislation and enforcement?

 

Nick

 

I'm sorry to tell you this, but you haven't a clue about the concept of motorhome 'aires'. These links should be educational:

 

http://www.motorcaravanning.com/travel/aires.htm

 

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/modules.php?name=Aires

 

French motoring regulations differ significantly from the UK's, with French motorists (which includes motorcaravanners) having a basic 'right to park' somewhat akin to walkers in the UK having a basic 'right to roam'. This right (plus the much greater area of the country compared to the UK) has permitted the aires system to flourish in France.

 

Despite what mikejkay was told, there is no obligation for French municipalites to provide designated facilities for motorcaravanners. However, there is a a legal requirement for towns with a population above 5000 to provide facilities where "gens du voyage" can stay. Gens du voyage (people who travel) have a French legal definition as explained here:

 

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gens_du_Voyage

 

In this earlier thread

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/UK-TOURING/29852/31/

 

Gwendolyn describes a realistic 6-step plan for how a local authority might be approached regarding a project for designated motorhome 'stop-over' facilities.

 

If it's thought that the mere suggestion by motorcaravanners that 'aires' would be a good idea in the UK would cause them to spring up magically like mushrooms, forget it. That's not the way it works here, and neither is it the way it works abroad.

 

 

[BKen1]

JudgeMental - 2013-03-22 1:37 PM

 

There was something on tv about a more enlightened local council dropping parking to10p an hour and interest free loans for those opening new businesses, to help rejuvenate the ghost town of the local high street.....And it is working, with life coming back to a community. but truth is more local authority's are lazy and clueless and prefer to police and fine and generally harass the public.

 

Pity you didnt reply first with this post to the original then the thread could then have taken a more positive direction instead off on a Daily Mail tack .But then again I suppose most posters would have latched onto the end of the last sentence and off they go.

 

Brian

[euroserv]

Derek;

 

Thanks for the heads-up, and I will read the links shortly.

 

I am sure that the contents will do little to persuade me that such facilities in the UK would not be abused and be a burden to the local folk because there is just too much evidence that in the UK there are so called travelling communities that do no more than park where they want and leave a trail of destruction.

 

No sane member of the British public could embrace this idea without seeing the laws of the land bolstered and enforced regularly to prevent the things that we see daily from happening. It's bad enough already; why on earth invite it to worsen?

 

I was trying to find out why this sort of abuse and lack of control is not an issue on the continent. I assumed or hoped that Aires were suitably far enough away from residences and therefore were not a strategically advantageous place from which to launch a crime wave?

 

Please focus on the question. Why do we have problems and why do the French seem not to?

There, surely lie the answers to ours.

 

Ray,

 

I am sure that we in England are very grateful for the Oil and Coal. In the case of the Oil, I suspect that it was UK or US money that funded finding and extracting it but this really is not the point, is it? We, in the UK are not asking for this, and nor (as far as I can see) are the people of Scotland, although the people of Wales are looking forward to it. Too many sheep over the border it seems.

The UK is a fine thing. Only over zealous politicians who can't do maths are trying to make a name for themselves to everyone's cost think otherwise.

[BGD]

Muswell - 2013-03-22 5:07 PM

 

How do the Spanish police distinguish between "wild-campers" and "travellers"?

 

 

 

 

 

 

With guns. Very big and real guns.

[rupert123]

Nick I have lived in Wales for 30 years and as far as I am aware their has never been a move for independance. Sure their is now a Welsh assembly but even this was only voted for by around 25% of the population, they would never get an independance vote, the Welsh know when they are well of, now what was that rugby score?

[rupert123]

yeti - 2013-03-22 2:07 PM

 

I am considering having these printed on an adhesive backing with a view to sticking on parking signs and meters of car parks that do not permit motorhomes to park.

 

"To the Chief Executive,Mayor,Chairman or Leader of Council. I was intending to park my motorhome here with a view to undertake some shopping and possibly have a meal. This would have entailed a total spend in the order of £100-150 and possibly more if other shopping opportunities presented themselves.

Due to the regulations posted I am now forced to move on and shop where my money more welcome.

I am sorry that you have chosen to exclude income to the area and I am sorry that your area is dying due to this attitude."

So what do you think?

 

Yes, right, you spend £100-£150 every time you stop, at least you might give the council a good laugh. A hell of a lot on here do not even pay for a campsite but will park up for the night on other peoples land with no permission.

[Derek Uzzell]

euroserv - 2013-03-22 4:40 PM

 

...Please focus on the question. Why do we have problems and why do the French seem not to?

There, surely lie the answers to ours...

 

Nick

 

It’s far from unknown for French ‘travellers’ to occupy aires de services locations, even when there are notices indicating that those locations are specifically for motorhome parking.

 

The occupations won’t last long as the travellers will be in transit between one of their authorized sites and another and, consequently, the amount of disruption caused locally (and the amount of rubbish left behind) will be relatively limited. There’s also the reaction of the French local authorities who, if they believe the travellers have any intention to put down roots, will have the legal authority and police manpower to ensure that the travellers rapidly move on.

 

I live near Ross-on-Wye, a town with a population of about 11,000. There have been problems in the past in Ross with travellers occupying a town-centre car-park and another near the river. The latter car-park had a height-barrier, but this was forcibly removed by the travellers to gain entry. In both cases, it took ages to jump through the legal hoops needed to get the travellers evicted and Ross residents needed to foot the bill for disposal of the junk left in their wake. Nowadays, the majority of the Ross car-parks have height-barriers to try to reduce the chances of this happening again.

 

Some of the car-parks on the Ross outskirts are well under-used and would, in principle, be excellent as ‘stop-overs’ for motorhomes. Ross is attractive to tourists and would benefit from motorcaravanners’ expenditure. But Ross already has a conveniently-positioned campsite

 

http://www.broadmeadow.info/index.asp

 

that’s open from Easter to end-September.

 

If I were on Ross-on-Wye town council, I’d need a LOT of convincing that any potential tourist-related benefits ensuing from providing a motorhome ‘aire’ in the town would be worth risking another traveller invasion.

 

To summarise what Gwendolyn said elsewhere, I’d be looking for:

 

1. Evidence of a genuine need based on community consultations, feasibility studies and on data gathered via questionnaires competently produced and analysed.

 

2. A convincing business plan.

 

3. A cost/benefit analysis.

 

In France there are thousands of aires de service and, because there’s historical precedent and the FFACCC (Fédération Française des Associations et Clubs de Camping-Cars) ‘sells’ the concept hard to French local authorities and provides project support, an ‘aire’ is seen as a good thing for a community to have to boost tourism. However, I’ve always thought that the aires network is probably financially successful only on a national level. Certainly many aires in out of the way French villages won’t break even, let alone turn in a profit.

 

As there are so many aires in France, the “You should have one too” argument is a plausible approach to make to a French local authority. But, as there are so few aires in the UK (and there’s the large CL/CS inexpensive campsite network), that argument won’t fly in this country. There’s no UK equivalent to the FFACCC to badger our local authorities, and it would be daft to expect the CC and CCC UK caravan/camping clubs to back the ‘aires’ idea.

 

If a motorcaravanner, or group of motorcaravanners, wants aire-type installations in their locality, I wish them well. And, if they put in the necessary effort and convince their local authorities of the benefits, they will deserve to succeed. But motorcaravanners just whining on forums that “there are no motorhome aires in the UK and it’s everybody’s fault but ours” is just pathetic.

 

[Gwendolyn]

Derek Uzzell - 2013-03-22 6:57 PM

 

To summarise what Gwendolyn said elsewhere, I’d be looking for:

 

1. Evidence of a genuine need based on community consultations, feasibility studies and on data gathered via questionnaires competently produced and analysed.

 

2. A convincing business plan.

 

3. A cost/benefit analysis.

 

As there are so many aires in France, the “You should have one too” argument is a plausible approach to make to a French local authority. But, as there are so few aires in the UK (and there’s the large CL/CS inexpensive campsite network), that argument won’t fly in this country. There’s no UK equivalent to the FFACCC to badger our local authorities, and it would be daft to expect the CC and CCC UK caravan/camping clubs to back the ‘aires’ idea.

 

If a motorcaravanner, or group of motorcaravanners, wants aire-type installations in their locality, I wish them well. And, if they put in the necessary effort and convince their local authorities of the benefits, they will deserve to succeed. But motorcaravanners just whining on forums that “there are no motorhome aires in the UK and it’s everybody’s fault but ours” is just pathetic.

 

When I posted the “6 point plan” to which you referred up-thread, and summarised here, I had been stung into the response by an Aire Fan who made some comments about people in the UK not having the “wit” to access EU money.

 

I was pointing out that people do have the “wit” – but maybe not the will? – to do this. Writing from my own experience of fund raising for a successful Village Project [now completed] I set out “all” that needs to be done in order to access money from Trusts and Foundations and from the EU. [i was not talking about the coffee morning / raffle type level of funding.] Perhaps my irony did not come across? It requires a lot of detailed and meticulous work.

 

And as councils are struggling to maintain front line services atm, then I guess that Aire provision is not high on the list of priorities?

 

My position may be described as “Aire Neutral”. I do not make much use of them during our 3 x 2 months’ touring in Mainland Europe; nor do I yearn for them in the UK. Having interests and enthusiasms outside motorhoming, I cannot bewail the lack of provision here. [i am more likely to get heated about the lack of tickets to see David Tennant perform Richard II at Stratford next Autumn!] Nor can I take up the position that some on the Forum do of eschewing the delights of the UK because it is not motorhome friendly. I love living here, and I love my other pastimes. And yes, I do motorhome and caravan over here too

 

And I read with some scepticism the pledge made [on the thread] to spend £100 - £150 if staying in a town’s facilities. That would surely be a jolly expensive trip if spending a week –or more - travelling???

 

Anyway, I agree with your final paragraph – complaining on a Forum is not going to achieve the aim of an Aire network in the UK. So if you Aire fans out there, who really care, want Aires then why not get on and do something? If you PM me I will send links to funding websites. But I do not have the will to do that work myself!

 

Oh yes… just to add…. a thread on the Caravan Club Forum about the possibility of the Club providing Aire type facilities met with some hostility from members of the Forum. Well… it IS the Caravan Club, but it gives a snapshot of the kind of reaction you might meet!

http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/community/discussions/caravan-sites/uk-caravan-sites/Should-the-CC-provide-Motorhome-Aires/rt/371377/

 

Cheers,

Gwen

 

PS Excuse any incoherence – I am watching Masterchef, and reading the hilarious posts about it on Digital Spy, whilst doing this.

 

 

 

[flicka]

Oh yes… just to add…. a thread on the Caravan Club Forum about the possibility of the Club providing Aire type facilities met with some hostility from members of the Forum. Well… it IS the Caravan Club, but it gives a snapshot of the kind of reaction you might meet!

http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/community/discussions/caravan-sites/uk-caravan-sites/Should-the-CC-provide-Motorhome-Aires/rt/371377/

 

Well after trawling through Gwendolyn's link, it's fairly obvious that many of the "caravanning" members of the CC are either:-

A) very envious of Motorhomers or

B) more bigotted that some of our "Chatterbox" regulars.

 

One poster stated Motorhome owners comprised c30% of the CC membership, another disputed this, saying he had never seen 1 in 4 units on sites being Motorhomes.

Guess that sums up the problem - Motorhome owners tend to tour (at least for some of their travels) & can't get on CC sites because they are Block Booked by "static" caravanners.

 

The linked thread, more than any other, (highlighted to me) the animosity of Caravanners towards Motorhomes & I'm now seriously considering getting out of the CC.

[Gwendolyn]

Yes Flicka, gives rise to a lot of reflections!

 

On the same Forum someone wrote words to the effect that caravans and tents don't mix. Amazing! Are we not all "campers" in one form or another?

 

As both a caravanner AND a motorhomer [who gave away her remaining tent only last August] I feel I do not "belong" to the Caravan Club [even while retaining membership].

 

But are the opinions posted on that thread, on that Forum, representative of opinions generally – when it comes to the subject of Aires that is?

 

Gwen

[Guest JudgeMental]

100,000 new homes = 750,000 new jobs *-)

[Muswell]

Quite so. Close to us is a mental health hospital which has closed down. Housing development, designed by excellent architects and other professionals is proposed. It is a really nice development which is hardly visible from the road. Local comment to the planners? Negative. Where do these people think the teachers, nurses, policemen are going to live when prices keep going up because of shortage? It's already reached £450k and up for anything to suit a family in the whole of this area... and rents to match.

[Poppy]

What I want is not so much aires to stop at at night, we rather like campsites, but access to motorhome parking when visiting anywhere.We once visited one tourist town and rang the parking authority on the park for advice.They had none.The tourist office didn't at first but eventually found a large car park a bit further out which they couldn't guarantee but siad that buses parked there and they didn't THINK we would have a problem.As it happens we didn't.Many tourist authorities only seem to exist to hand out leaflets.

[malc d]

Poppy - 2013-03-24 8:42 AM

 

What I want is not so much aires to stop at at night, we rather like campsites, but access to motorhome parking when visiting anywhere.We once visited one tourist town and rang the parking authority on the park for advice.They had none.

 

 

 

But did you explain to them what a motorhome is ?

 

 

;-)

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Funny how some contributors see a system of UK aires as a no no, they could work exactly the same as any car park, so where's the problem. But I simply don't get the "no overnight sleeping" bit, where car parks allow overnight parking why the hell shouldn't I be allowed to sleep in my vehicle, be it car,van, or motor home, just because some petty minded councillors say no that's why. >:-(

 

Blimey, no wonder we return to France time and time again. ;-)

 

And rarely do our European counterparts come here, simply to much hassle.

[Matrix Meanderer]

Very interesting discussion which, sitting watching the snow falling moves me to add to the discussion.

 

I have spent nearly all my working life in local government sport and culture management, responsible for parks, recreation grounds, country parks, allotments, sports centres, theatres...... the list goes on. I have spent many a happy hour in council committees and full council meetings trying to improve the regular leisure facilities for the local community, sometimes with success but it has always been a struggle against all sorts of opposition, not just the councillors :-S

As a management consultant these last 13 years I've also written many business plans for sport/culture/leisure developments again with some successes.

 

So when it comes to English local authorities providing the equivalent of free or even paying overnight stops like their European counterparts, I can confidently say that it will only happen in a very few locations. I say this because of the following:

1. Whilst councils will support the principle of providing recreation facilities (and that's what they are) for all, parking for motorhomes will always be well down the priority list at a time when Councils are struggling to keep swimming pools, libraries and even sports centres open at a low cost and a safe condition. Sadly the average councillor and council officer (even in the sports and leisure sections) does not have much enthusiasm for motorhomers. They like seasonal caravan sites because they are actually easier to set up with the support of the Clubs.

 

2. As has been said earlier, you need a convincing business case and sadly even the best would struggle to write something that would convince councillors to vote for it given the mega pressures they are under. However, there will always be some places with high levels of day visitors and an oversupply of well located convertible car parks, the staff to manage the facility and a low level of traveller problems, such as Lytham St Annes, which will succeed

3. Our local government system is a world away from the French, German, Italian and Spanish models. Some would say thank goodness for that. But the reality is that across The Channel local mayors have a very different approach and funding. The are able to pay for those stunning floral displays we all admire so much, the fancy street furniture and the oversized sports centre (with their name on it ) :-D Here our councillors have a very different life with central government controlling every aspect and most of their income.

 

So my opinion is that there will be some councils whose councillors and at least one senior officer with (a) the enthusiasm to support our bit of the holiday industry (b) a suitable location © innovative or windfall capital funding to build the facility and (d) the courage to write in continuous funding to pay for the day to day operation of the facility. Good luck to Lytham - lets hope it is the start of a small change in council activity.

 

However, all is not lost in our search for the Aire equivalent. How so?

1. We have an excellent network of CL/CS sites at very low cost. For instance, I've stayed on Puddletown Recreation Ground in Dorset, an excellent example of parish council holiday provision even with EHU. If we want the countryside to repel developers then we must continue to support these small property owners.

 

2. The improving Britstop and other pub stopover networks should be supported. For £25 per year (and even the hardest wild camper might even pay that :-D ) users are not only getting a great overnight deal but supporting an industry under pressure from all those of use who bring caseloads of beer and wine back from Calais (mea culpa). Everyone should help these organisations to enrol as many simple overnight stops as possible, there are almost endless locations that could be used in this way at little or no set up costs.

 

3. Use the big expensive campsites sparingly, even they need regular trade to survive.

 

4. Don't push the boundaries of on street car parking - it only worsens the motorhome image and equates us to some form of traveller in public opinion. For instance why camp on the street at Dover when there are perfectly good small, cheap sites not far away.

 

Hope this adds to the discussion.

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Yes it does, but lets compare the Aires system that are so popular with countless thousands of Europeans, in contrast the difference we faced last week here in the UK

 

Needing to get to an early hospital appointment we thought we'd make use of the van and get near and stop overnight.

 

First hurdle, only one CL/CS in the near area showing as open.Sods law we were in the wrong club, none the less ( howls of outrage ) we telephoned them to see if they would allow us to stop.

 

Second hurdle, no answer to their phone, not even the option to leave a message, so do we stay or do we go.

 

Third hurdle decided to bite the bullet and get on our way towards them, eventually got through, they said yes no problem no one else there, is there hard standing,and is the ground firm, yes no problem.

 

Forth hurdle,got there only to almost instantly get stuck in deep mud, mmmm, firm ground enquiry, now an obviously p*ssed of CL owner trying to pull us out with their 4x4, eventually did. Just as well they were empty, they advised us to stop exactly where we were, so blocking access to the rest of the field.

 

Fifth hurdle, that will be £15 please for a muddy field, no facilities, and a load of hassle. >:-(

 

Oh and the point about Dover, one of our largest cross channel ports, and yet Dover hasn't the wit to provide even some paid overnight off street parking, and yet just across the road Calais port has absolutely no problem with sorting some out, as for sites, not much good using one if you have an early morning ferry and end up disturbing others, and if memory serves me you cannot go off the CCC club site early in any event.

 

 

 

Contrast that with France, just find a nearby Aire, and pull up, job done, oh and maybe 5 Euros. ;-)

[euroserv]

1footinthegrave - 2013-03-24 10:11 AM

 

Funny how some contributors see a system of UK aires as a no no, they could work exactly the same as any car park, so where's the problem. But I simply don't get the "no overnight sleeping" bit, where car parks allow overnight parking why the hell shouldn't I be allowed to sleep in my vehicle, be it car,van, or motor home, just because some petty minded councillors say no that's why. >:-(

 

Blimey, no wonder we return to France time and time again. ;-)

 

And rarely do our European counterparts come here, simply to much hassle.

 

The signs are there because no matter how well behaved YOU may be; there are many that would either never leave or leave piles of human waste, household waste and anything else they don't need any more behind.

 

Is it that the French don't do such things?

 

There is a problem with mobile vermin in this country and sadly that means that anyone that wishes to stay anywhere other than a designated camp site and does not wish to pay for the use of wherever they park will be treated with caution or contempt until such time as the laws of our land are adjusted to deal with it.

 

This is not an area where a few decent folk can lead by example, and that is very sad.

 

I see people every day chucking rubbish out of car windows; adults and children alike. I see the mess that travellers leave. I wish the rubbish could be stuffed back inside the capsules from which it came along with the oiks that bespoiled our land and incinerate the lot.

 

Until that day you will be tarred with the same brush, and you won't get the chance to prove the general public wrong.

 

Nick

[euroserv]

And another thing.......

 

How hard could it possibly be for a council run car park (that probably already accommodates coaches) to allow motorhomes to park for the day at an appropriate rate?

 

Surely just about any 'tourist' town already has to provide for coach tours?

 

Surely they have barriers that are either lifted or removed during operating hours? They certainly have attendants to ensure that they get paid!

 

If I am right, and this is but a simple exercise, why is it not so? Why are so many complaining about the lack of facilities? I don't believe this is the problem at all.

 

I think the complaints are because the motor caravanners in question are expecting somewhere to park for nothing, and expect to be able to spend the night there too. They probably want to be able to sneakily empty their chemical loo there and fill up with water while they are at it. They probably want to brew up a cup of tea or cook a meal into the bargain.

 

Well tough luck.

 

Everyone else that visits does so in a coach, buys some food and leaves before the day is out or stays in a Bed and Breakfast or Hotel and has to pay for that and has to pay for parking and has to use cafe's and restaurants and actually makes a real contribution to the local economy.

 

Am I the only one that just cannot see why any council would want to spend money providing services that everyone else has to pay for, for a small group of people, some of whom are very likely to abuse the privilege anyway?

 

Anyone that complains about the current state of play should have considered all of this before they chose to buy a motor caravan. Even the salesman would have asked you what you planned to do with it!

 

Don't just shoot me down! Somebody please tell me what they think they should pay for a parking space in, say, Ambleside and how much MORE that would be than a car for a given period of time. I paid about £9 for about 6 hours last September for a car. If I had stayed for 24 hours it would have been about £25. An absolute rip off, but how much do you think a motor caravan should be charged to park in the same place? Give me an idea....

 

Nick

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Nick with respect it is the general public that travel our highways and bye-ways chucking their crap out of their car windows. We have a public car park right opposite us, we are in a holiday hotspot ( Aberdyf, Wales ) and the amount of discarded crap on the average summer day has to be seen to be believed, this despite a large waste bin on-site.

This is a blight that no ones seems to care about any more, and even the misguided dog poo pick it up campaign has added to the problem, pick it up,then dump it with the rest of the crap when no ones looking.

 

We need a litter revolution in this country, and bloody great fines for these scumbags, I even chased one load who having had a picnic on our award winning beach left all their crap behind, I caught up with them and handing their plastic carrier bag to them said, "I notice you forgot your bag" they just shrugged and walked off without a word, but you can bet your arse it ended up dumped somewhere else. >:-(

 

If they see us as the problem, they need to go to specsavers.

 

As for your comment about how much should we expect to pay, well I'm not sure how old you are, but there was a time when almost all parking was free anywhere,ask yourself another question, given that we are taxed to the hilt, why should anyone have to pay for council owned car parking.

In very many parts of Europe you can park for free, so I turn it back to you, if they can do it,why the hell can't we.

And your right about making the enquiry about using a motorhome in the UK, if they had said, despite my van being the same size as many a 4x4, that I would find it near impossible to find a parking bay long enough for my vehicle, that I would encounter height barriers at every turn, and even if exhausted and needed to take a nap in my vehicle some bye-law would prevent it, I'd have told them to shove the van.

 

As it is I just piss off over the channel where very oddly they do not see us as a problem at all,quite the opposite in fact, despite them having travellers and the rest, a bloody sight more than we have, they just deal with them no messing.

;-)

[pepe63xnotuse]

euroserv - 2013-03-26 3:36 PM

 

....I think the complaints are because the motor caravanners in question are expecting somewhere to park for nothing, and expect to be able to spend the night there too. They probably want to be able to sneakily empty their chemical loo there and fill up with water while they are at it. They probably want to brew up a cup of tea or cook a meal into the bargain.

 

Well tough luck.

 

Everyone else that visits does so in a coach, buys some food and leaves before the day is out or stays in a Bed and Breakfast or Hotel and has to pay for that and has to pay for parking and has to use cafe's and restaurants and actually makes a real contribution to the local economy.

 

Am I the only one that just cannot see why any council would want to spend money providing services that everyone else has to pay for, for a small group of people, some of whom are very likely to abuse the privilege anyway?

 

Anyone that complains about the current state of play should have considered all of this before they chose to buy a motor caravan.

 

I tend to agree Nick, as I've voiced similar views in the past...

...but I've usually been drowned out by the usual, "...it's not fair...why can't I park/pitch(plonk!) my 8mtr Mh in the busy town centre car park/prom'/headland/beauty spot, that's why I bought it?... I pay road tax...we're being discriminated against...we bring soooo much money in...it's cheaper in France anyway..." comments. ;-)

 

Oops! sorry 1foot'..I crossed your post. :$

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

So let's be perfectly clear, they can turn up in their Nissan Navara, Range Rover, in any of those spots, pile out with two kids, two dogs, dogs defecate, kids take a piss behind a stone wall, Dad chucks his beer can in the bushes, drives off down the road flinging their McDonalds crap out the windows

 

I turn up in my sub 6 metre van with just us couple of oldies, me and the missus who can hardly walk, sit and enjoy the view, read the paper, need the loo, but have one in the van, have a beer but have a bin in our van, don't own a couple of dogs to crap everywhere, but I'm public enemy number one, yes right of course I am. ;-)

 

As for bringing money in, don't we all need to buy fuel and food, buy services, visit a tourist attraction wherever we go, or am I missing a trick. when we go off for weeks at a time as I've not found any way of not doing so.

 

I'm amazed that some of you bought a van at all, judging by your comments, I mean what's the point exactly, a caravan would be by far the more sensible option. :-S

 

and blimey here is a FIRST, absolutely bang on the money from John47 below,

 

finding himself in the same camp as me might be a bit unsettling for him though. :D

[John 47]

Havingread through all the anti-aire comments I have to say that they smack of NIMBYism to me, so let's have a look at the facts:

 

1. Picnickers are responsible for much more litter than motorhomers, simply because there are more of them. Do people want to ban picnicking?

 

2. If local authorities allowed motorhomers to stop overnight on car parks that would otherwise not be used it will cost them NOTHING. Sure, it would be good to have a water tap and waste disposal but that is not essential.

 

3. If anybody - motorhomer or not - drops waste, annoys the locals and causes a nuisance there are plenty of existing laws to throw at them.

 

4. The old chestnut about gypsies is a red herring. If any anti-social gypsy wants to stop anywhere he will not be put off by a notice or even a height barrier. It is the same with those drinking bans that are popular at the moment - lager louts will take no notice, there are existing laws that could be used againsy them anyway and the only people to suffer are law-abiding citizens who want a bottle of wine with their picnic in the local park.

 

5. If people are afraid of motorhomers setting up camp for the summer then do what they do in France, Spain, Portugal, Germany etc - put a 24 or 48 hour limit on stays - and enforce it! If anyone wants a lesson in how easy it is to get rid of undesirables theys hould go to France.

 

6. Agreed that some anti-social motorhomers stop in inconvenient places, annoy the locals and leave a mess - use the laws that exist, don't punish the law-abiding ones.

 

7. If France et al can see the business sense in allowing us to stay (even if only a small percentage of us shop in their towns) then why doesn't the UK have any business sense in this regard?

 

As for the something-for-nothing argument. What exactly is it that is being provided that isn't being paid for? Motorhomes pay road tax etc. If a tap and waste disposal are provided, few people would object to paying a fiver or whatever (although most aires in France are free). We are not freeloaders; we are free spirits. If we don't cause you any bother why should we not be allowed to stay?

[Gwendolyn]

Why don’t those of you who are convinced that a system of Aires or night parking is so fair and right do something about it? Something more than posting disgruntled comments on the Forum I mean.

 

Group together, using the PM system to get in touch with one another – the pro lobby are evident. Start a post asking for other to join the group and get a structured campaign off the ground:

 

- Get some funding.

- Write a convincing manifesto.

- Create a business plan which will persuade council / supermarket chains of the spin off for them.

- Convince a few councils / super market chains to trial a scheme for a season or two. If successful, others could follow suit.

 

Enough people have put forward enough persuasive points for you all to make a start. That has to be more positive and productive than posting your ideas here surely?

 

 

Gwen