Timing belt on Fiat Ducato

[trevor166uk]

I've just read the honest John website (He's started a new site especially for vans) In the Ducato section he recommends the timing belt on a 2.3 ducato X250 should be changed every 3 years.

 

Now Honest John is a respected voice, his car site is full of good stuff and he's the motoring correspondent for the Telegraph, but I wonder if he's gone off on one here.

 

I always thought it was a once every 5 years job. What does everyone else think. I'm interested because my 2.3 Ducato is coming up to 3 years old, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Has anyone had one fail in between 3 and 5 years?

 

I'm interested what Nick (euroserv) thinks.

[spospe]

What does the driver's handbook / service schedule book say?

[Derek Uzzell]

If you visit the Fiat Camper website (www.fiatcamper.com) you'll find the following advice in the FAQ part of the "EXTRAS" section:

 

"Question: When do I have to replace the timing-belt/chain?

 

Answer: The "for life" timing chain of 100 MultiJet, 160 MultiJet Power and 180 MultiJet Power engines does not need to be replaced.

 

120 MultiJet, 130 MultiJet and 150 MultiJet engines have a timing belt which must be checked every 90,000 km and replaced every 180,000 km on Euro 4 engines, and checked every 96,000 km and replaced every 192,000 km on Euro 5 engines.

 

On 115 MultiJet engines on the other hand, the belt must be checked every 48,000 km and replaced every 144,000 km.

 

In all cases, the belt must be replaced every 5 years."

 

You'd be ill-advised to trust the "Honest John" website (or Telegraph section) when it comes to things like this. The advice is often helpful, usually harmless, but sometimes wrong.

[Mel B]

I would be interested to know WHY Honest John thinks it should be changed at 3 years ... he's not a shareholder in Fiat is he! (lol)

[trevor166uk]

Hi

 

I don't think I said I was trusting him, and I did express doubt as to the quality of the information. I was merely opening up a train of thought and canvassing views.

 

The question I am most interested in is whether anyone has had a failure between the 3rd and 5th year, or at any time before the 5th year.

 

I'm, aware of what the manual says but it is true that sometimes it is wise to do things more often than a maker recommends. For instance the maker also recommends oil changes only every 28000 miles which is clearly too long.

[Wooie]

Mel B - 2013-03-24 6:24 PM

 

I would be interested to know WHY Honest John thinks it should be changed at 3 years ... he's not a shareholder in Fiat is he! (lol)

 

 

No,but he might have Shares in " Continental " who make an awful lot of the Timing Belts !

 

 

 

 

 

[sshortcircuit]

Strange, but from a quick scan through the web, 28,000 miles is Fiats recommended service interval which you think "is clearly too long.", Why?

 

[flicka]

trevor166uk - 2013-03-24 5:40 PM

 

I've just read the honest John website (He's started a new site especially for vans) In the Ducato section he recommends the timing belt on a 2.3 ducato X250 should be changed every 3 years.

 

Now Honest John is a respected voice, his car site is full of good stuff and he's the motoring correspondent for the Telegraph, but I wonder if he's gone off on one here.

 

I always thought it was a once every 5 years job. What does everyone else think. I'm interested because my 2.3 Ducato is coming up to 3 years old, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Has anyone had one fail in between 3 and 5 years?

 

I'm interested what Nick (euroserv) thinks.

 

I think he will be refering to white van man, who will generally achieve the mileage limit within that timeframe.

[Derek Uzzell]

trevor166uk - 2013-03-24 6:28 PM

 

...The question I am most interested in is whether anyone has had a failure between the 3rd and 5th year, or at any time before the 5th year.

 

I'm, aware of what the manual says but it is true that sometimes it is wise to do things more often than a maker recommends. For instance the maker also recommends oil changes only every 28000 miles which is clearly too long.

 

Your question is easily answered -Yes.

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/11-month-old-FIAT-2000-repair-bill/30521/

 

If you wanted to know whether timing-belts have been known to fail in 'normal use' before a vehicle manufacturer's defined replacement' time-interval, then again the answer is Yes. This is the bugbear of timing-belts - although the replacement interval specified by the vehicle manufacturer should err well on the side of reliability, a belt can fail early, with no warning and usually with serious mechanical damage resulting.

 

Some while ago my neighbour bought a secondhand Vauxhall Astra. It was sourced from the Vauxhall(UK) fleet, had done little mileage and had a full service history. Just after the warranty expired (warranty periods were shorter in those days) the timing-belt failed causing the motor's valve-gear to be mangled. In this instance (and rather surprisingly perhaps) Vauxhall agreed to pay the large repair bill.

 

Vehicle manufacturers may advise in their Owners' Handbooks a specific time-period at the end of which tyres should be changed, and received wisdom is that leisure-vehicle tyres should not be older than 5 years. I believe tyre manufacturers recommend a tyre be discarded at 10 years of age irrespective of wear/usage. However, even if you replaced a motorhome's tyres every 2 years, that wouldn't ensure that you never had a tyre-related problem.

 

Similarly, even if you had the timing-belt of your Ducato replaced at 3 years instead of the advised 5 years, that wouldn't guarantee that the replacement belt wouldn't fail catastrophically a week after it had been put on.

 

This isn't really a wisdom thing, it's a 'bet'. If you believe that Fiat's advised 5-year-maximum timing-belt replacement interval is excessively long, the sensible thing would be to have your motorhome's belt changed earlier (say, at 3 years). That way, should the replacement belt subsequently fail when your vehicle is 4 years old, you won't be blaming yourself. If you believe that Fiat's advised 5-year-maximum timing-belt replacement interval is excessively long and you choose not to have the belt replaced at, say, 3 years, and the original belt fails at 4 years, you'll blame yourself.

 

Me, I'd follow Fiat's 5-year advice and hope for the best.

[Tin Man]

I've just replaced the cambelt on my van. Did it last week. My van is 5 years old and it has covered 18000 miles.

 

I was unsure what to do but following the advice given on here, and reading the Fiat manual, I shall change it every 5 years.

 

(Just replaced all the tyres as well, proper skint now)! :-(

[carebear]

Tin Man

Saying you changed your timing belt was this a Fiat 3ltr engine. ??

Did you need any special tools to do it, and how long a job to do.

Our van is now 5 years old, so we want to get it done soon.

 

Hubby is thinking of doing it himself, due to time issues working shifts has always had it done on previous vans by a friend.

[Tin Man]

Hello carebear,

 

My van is a Burstner Aviano i640G with the multijet 2.3 litre engine. I took it to our local Fiat Professional garage. One day job. Cost £500 for parts and (mainly) labour.

 

I could have got it done a little cheaper, but I'd sooner Fiat Professional do it.

 

[dawki]

carebear - 2013-04-04 9:16 PM

 

Tin Man

Saying you changed your timing belt was this a Fiat 3ltr engine. ??

Did you need any special tools to do it, and how long a job to do.

Our van is now 5 years old, so we want to get it done soon.

 

Hubby is thinking of doing it himself, due to time issues working shifts has always had it done on previous vans by a friend.

 

Hi I thought the 3L engine was chain driven? so no cambelt to change

[Derek Uzzell]

dawki - 2013-04-04 10:45 PM

 

carebear - 2013-04-04 9:16 PM

 

Tin Man

Saying you changed your timing belt was this a Fiat 3ltr engine. ??

Did you need any special tools to do it, and how long a job to do.

Our van is now 5 years old, so we want to get it done soon.

 

Hubby is thinking of doing it himself, due to time issues working shifts has always had it done on previous vans by a friend.

 

Hi I thought the 3L engine was chain driven? so no cambelt to change

 

Yes - the 3.0litre motor fitted to Fiat Ducatos has a timing-chain (NOT a timing-belt) that's essentially maintenance free and (at least as far as motorhomes are concerned) should last the life of the motor.

 

The 2.3litre motor in the Fiat Ducato has a timing-belt that should be replaced periodically. It also has a chain-drive from one cam-shaft to the other, but the chain-drive does not need periodic replacement.

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Is it an urban myth that if you have belt and tensioners replaced and it subsequently fails within the specified time / mileage limit, you can make a claim for the resulting damage ?

[BGD]

1footinthegrave - 2013-04-05 11:20 AM

 

Is it an urban myth that if you have belt and tensioners replaced and it subsequently fails within the specified time / mileage limit, you can make a claim for the resulting damage ?

 

 

It's certainly not a myth. You can make a claim for anything.

 

The key is whether the claim would be accepted, or could be enforced.

 

If the retailer and/or Company that fitted the parts rejected all or most of your claim, your recourse to obtain any more money back from them would be to go to law against them, by making a claim, if in England, at the Small Claims Court or County court.

 

In the end of course, it's then for a Judge to decide if all, or any, of the "consequential damages" that you were claiming for were justifiable and reasonable under all the specific circumstances.

Even if the Judge orders the respondent(s) to pay "£X" to you, there's no cast iron guarantee that you'd get any or all of "£X"....the company might go bust, might simply refuse to pay.

 

 

So, yes, you can claim. But whether or not you'd get anything depends on all the individual circumstances. One of the key factors would be time/mileage elapsed since fitting. Failure one day and 10 miles later = good claim in law. Failure 4 years and 70,000 miles later = silly claim.

 

 

[Tin Man]

BGD - 2013-04-05 10:40 AM

 

1footinthegrave - 2013-04-05 11:20 AM

 

Is it an urban myth that if you have belt and tensioners replaced and it subsequently fails within the specified time / mileage limit, you can make a claim for the resulting damage ?

 

 

It's certainly not a myth. You can make a claim for anything.

 

The key is whether the claim would be accepted, or could be enforced.

 

If the retailer and/or Company that fitted the parts rejected all or most of your claim, your recourse to obtain any more money back from them would be to go to law against them, by making a claim, if in England, at the Small Claims Court or County court.

 

In the end of course, it's then for a Judge to decide if all, or any, of the "consequential damages" that you were claiming for were justifiable and reasonable under all the specific circumstances.

Even if the Judge orders the respondent(s) to pay "£X" to you, there's no cast iron guarantee that you'd get any or all of "£X"....the company might go bust, might simply refuse to pay.

 

 

So, yes, you can claim. But whether or not you'd get anything depends on all the individual circumstances. One of the key factors would be time/mileage elapsed since fitting. Failure one day and 10 miles later = good claim in law. Failure 4 years and 70,000 miles later = silly claim.

 

 

Hence, a Fiat Professional garage did the work.

[Muswell]

The Ford warranty excludes consequential loss, but I bet that could keep lawyers going. Do you just get a new belt and a smile?

[BGD]

Muswell - 2013-04-06 10:29 AM

 

The Ford warranty excludes consequential loss, but I bet that could keep lawyers going. Do you just get a new belt and a smile?

 

 

 

It says it does, to put people off.

If the consequential losses "flow directly" from the original fault, and the owner has acted reasonably in trying to mitigate those consequential losses, then I strongly suggest that a Judge would decided that Ford UK Ltd would be liable to pay them.

[Muswell]

I'm sure you're right but it would be interesting to know what the warranty period for the belt itself is compared with the recommended renewal period because if it failed between the two I bet you'd have an interesting discussion.

[Airstream]

Hi,

Quote from Fiat re service parts warranty

 

"12 Months part and repair guarantee

All genuine Fiat parts are guaranteed for 12 months, or the duration of the prevailing warranty on the vehicle, as are repairs carried out by any Fiat dealer using genuine parts"

 

Ray

[mikemelson]

 

I've got a Peugeot 2004 Boxer, which I believe are identical to the Sevel Fiats?

 

Last year before my annual 3 month trip to Spain I decided it was high time for a cambelt change. I took the van to a very good local garage that would not rip me off. The mechanic looked in the Gates catalogue (Gates make 90% of all cambelts) & on the Peugeot page it stated 72,000 miles or 10 years.

 

The mechanic advised me not to change it but I will probably do it this year to play safe. I keep reading about so called experts advising changes after 3 or 5 years, I wonder if they are preying on the 'piece of mind' factor.

 

I drove a Volvo estate on the same cambelt for 18 years!

 

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

Anyone who publishes advice, will err on the side of caution. Were your mechanic to openly publish his advice to you, he would soon find himself in an "interesting" position.

 

Of course some belts, for a variety of reasons, will last much longer. However, others won't, and the consequences of a belt failure are far more expensive than the cost of replacing a belt.

 

As Derek very sensibly says, it is a bet. To quote (yet again!), Clint Eastwood, "are you feeling lucky?" It seems you are, and prefer to reject the collective wisdom.

 

That collective wisdom aims to give advice on the best way to avoid an expensive failure. So, it is a balance of probabilities on which a judgement (Derek's bet) has to be made. It is not, and never can be, a certainty. It is just one of life's little games of chance. One takes it on, or one leaves it. The consequences fall upon the player, and no-one else.

[colin]

mikemelson - 2013-04-06 12:51 PM

 

 

I've got a Peugeot 2004 Boxer, which I believe are identical to the Sevel Fiats?

 

Last year before my annual 3 month trip to Spain I decided it was high time for a cambelt change. I took the van to a very good local garage that would not rip me off. The mechanic looked in the Gates catalogue (Gates make 90% of all cambelts) & on the Peugeot page it stated 72,000 miles or 10 years.

 

The mechanic advised me not to change it but I will probably do it this year to play safe. I keep reading about so called experts advising changes after 3 or 5 years, I wonder if they are preying on the 'piece of mind' factor.

 

I drove a Volvo estate on the same cambelt for 18 years!

 

 

 

I have a Ford engine with a cambelt that is well over 20 y.o. I'm not particulary worried as if it fails I have another (chain driven cam) engine ready to replace it. On the otherhand, I'll not be leaving the Ducato belt more than 5 years as replacing it would be expensive and might well riun the years main holiday. The 10 year/ 100,000mile cam belts where introduced mainly by Ford to US legislation quite a few years back, there have been many failures, and they later reduced the recommended milage/age as they got so much stick over it, but I've not heard of Ford ever paying out on older vehicles. A relative of mine was a service engineer for a large agricultural engineers, they where all individualy responsable for servicing thier own vehicles, his was one of the few that didn't snap a cambelt as he always changed the belt at 50,000 and/or 3 years. As dirty harry says "do you feel lucky punk?"

[carebear]

Thank you all, cannot wait for hubby to come home in the morning, to tell him to read the manual (lol) .

I think he will be pleased we haven`t got the expense of a timing belt.

I am the concerned one to make sure the van is serviced in and out.

Thank u all. ;-)