Tyres Again

[rapidoman]

Time for new tyre, Michelin cp tyres 5 years old and badly cracked on sidewalls. Have been offered Michelin Agilis 215/70 r15 speed rating Q or Continental vanco camper with speed rating R. Quoted £131.10 for Michelin & £114.30 for Continental so not huge price difference SO which is best :-D Any comments good or bad welcome.

[lennyhb]

Conti's run at lower pressure so give a bit softer ride, my conti's are nearly 5 years old no sign of any cracks.

Michelin's are M&S rated could be important if you travel in mainland Europe in the winter.

[Derek Uzzell]

Mike

 

The “Q” symbol you’ve quoted (and the price) indicates that the Michelin tyre is “Agilis Camping” not “Agilis”. This distinction is important as “Agilis Camping” is (like Continental’s “Vanco-Camper” pattern) a specialised ‘camping-car’ tyre, whereas “Agilis” is an ordinary ‘white van’ tyre.

 

In the size you need, the “Agilis Camping” and “Vanco-Camper” tyres should carry a “CP” (Camping Pneu) designator (ie. 215/70 R15CP) rather than the “C” (Camionette) designator (ie. 215/70 R15C) appropriate to a tyre aimed at light-commercial-vehicle applications. I’m aware you’ve mentioned “cp” early in your posting, but it’s worth emphasising that “Agilis Camping” and “Agilis” are not the same pattern.

 

Realistically, you can ignore the different speed symbols. “R” = 170kmh/106mph and “S” = 180kmh/112mph.

 

“Agilis Camping” and “Vanco Camper” both have a design capability to be inflated to (and operated safely at) 5.5bar/80psi (though this may result in a harsh ride) and, at high inflation-pressures, high-pressure valves (preferably ‘metal’ clamp-in type) should be used. When your tyres are replaced, make sure the tyre-fitter does not fit unsuitable tyre-valves.

 

Both patterns have a ‘camping-car tyre’ specification and will have a very similar pressure-to-load graph. If the load on the “Agilis Camping” tyre is X and Michelin advises that an inflation-pressure Y be used for that load, then, for the same load X, Continental will also advise an inflation-pressure of Y.

 

If one were to inflate a Continental “Vanco-Camper” 215/70 R15CP tyre to, say, 70psi, and inflate a Michelin “Agilis Camping” 215/70 R15CP tyre also to 70psi, on a given motorhome the difference in ride quality provided by each pattern would be unnoticeable. Obviously, if one inflated the Continental tyre to 70psi and the Michelin tyre to 80psi, it should be anticipated that the motorhome would have a softer ride with the Continental tyres.

 

As lenny says, “Agilis Camping” is M+S-marked, while “Vanco-Camper” is not. M+S-marking (as lenny indicated) may be important if you travel in winter to Continental countries that have regulations relating to M+S/winter tyres. And, in principle, an M+S-marked tyre might be expected to provide better off-road grip (ie. on a grassed campsite) than a non-M+S-marked equivalent. But both patterns are ‘summer’ tyres, so one should not expect miracles.

 

I believe Continental now has the contract to supply “Vanco Camper” tyres as part of the ‘camping-car package’ that many (most?) coachbuilt motorhomes based on Boxer/Ducato chassis have. This contract used to be Michelin’s.

 

Over the years Michelin gained a reputation for failing to meet demand (particularly demand for popular-size camping-car tyres) so, should you opt for “Agilis Camping”, make sure your supplier can actually obtain them at the price they’ve quoted to you. On-line tyre-suppliers’ statements that a particular tyre is “In Stock” need to be treated with care. You should also shop around price-wise – the £114 for “Vanco-Camper” seems pretty good, but £131 for “Agilis Camping” less so.

 

I can’t really advise you on which pattern is ‘best’, and I’m definitely not going to explore the argument that usually ensues from this type of inquiry – that ‘camping-car’ tyres are a waste of money and you could save £20/£30/£40/£50 per tyre by opting for ‘white van’ tyres instead.

 

As you are undoubtedly not over the moon that the sidewalls of your Michelin “Agilis Camping” tyres have cracked badly, unless the M+S-marking is important to you, if you can obtain “Vanco-Camper” tyres at a good price, and at a lower price than that of the Michelins, I suggest you opt for the Continentals. That’s what I’d do...

 

[Brian Kirby]

And, if the M+S marking is important for you, have you considered using Continental VancoFourSeason tyres? These, as the name suggests, are an all year, as opposed to summer, tyre, so don't have the drawbacks if using a full winter tyre during summer.

 

We have two on the front of our van, and my impression is that the grip on wet grass, and damp, cold, greasy roads, is definitely superior to the Vancos (not the CP variety) that they replaced.

 

For your size tyre (but always subject to MAM/axle loads) they are available (made!) in 109R load and speed range. As I read the chart, suitable for max 2060kg axle load at 5.5bar - which should be checked before ordering. The main question would be whether your supplier can get them - as availability seems a bit hit-and-miss - and if so, at what price. However, maybe worth considering if you are likely to use your van in Austria or Germany (and I believe a few other countries) between November and March.

[Derek Uzzell]

Brian Kirby - 2013-03-26 3:11 PM

 

And, if the M+S marking is important for you, have you considered using Continental VancoFourSeason tyres? These, as the name suggests, are an all year, as opposed to summer, tyre, so don't have the drawbacks if using a full winter tyre during summer.

 

We have two on the front of our van, and my impression is that the grip on wet grass, and damp, cold, greasy roads, is definitely superior to the Vancos (not the CP variety) that they replaced.

 

For your size tyre (but always subject to MAM/axle loads) they are available (made!) in 109R load and speed range. As I read the chart, suitable for max 2060kg axle load at 5.5bar - which should be checked before ordering. The main question would be whether your supplier can get them - as availability seems a bit hit-and-miss - and if so, at what price. However, maybe worth considering if you are likely to use your van in Austria or Germany (and I believe a few other countries) between November and March.

 

Brian,

 

Are you sure Vanco4Season is currently available in 215/70 R15C size? (See this earlier thread)

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Tyres-for-Rapido-7090-/28629/#M329585

 

It's a rare Continental tyre-pattern to begin with and (as far as I can make out from the Conti website) not 'officially' marketed in the UK or other EU countries. It's still referred to on Conti's USA site, but only in two 15" sizes that don't include the 215mm width. Vanco4Season is a 'white van' tyre not a 'camping-car' tyre, so I'd be surprised if Continental would advise its suitability for being run at 5.5bar/80psi. Vanco-Camper - Yes, but not Vanco4season.

 

I'm assuming that Mike plans to junk all his motorhome's present tyres, so there's the possibility of replacing them all-round with 'white van' or 'camping-car' tyres. in the latter category, besides "Agilis Camping" and "Vanco-Camper", there is Pirelli's "Chrono-Camper" that is available in 215/70 R15 size and should be obtainable at a similar price to the Michelin and Continental equivalents. But "Chrono-Camper" is also a rarity and, if there were ever a need to get a rapid one-to-one replacement, this (as with Vanco4Season) might prove extremely difficult.

 

If Mike were to choose 'camping-car-tyre' replacements, logically they should be Continental or Michelin products. If M+S-marking were important to Mike, then the replacements would have to be "Agilis Camping": if not, then "Vanco-Camper" might be a better bet as a) it's probably cheaper and b) will probably be more easily sourced if a direct replacement were needed in a hurry at some time.

 

Once a move is made into 'white van tyre' territory, anything goes...

[Brian Kirby]

Derek Uzzell - 2013-03-26 4:16 PM

 

Brian Kirby - 2013-03-26 3:11 PM...................For your size tyre (but always subject to MAM/axle loads) they are available (made!) in 109R load and speed range. As I read the chart, suitable for max 2060kg axle load at 5.5bar - which should be checked before ordering. The main question would be whether your supplier can get them - as availability seems a bit hit-and-miss - and if so, at what price. However, maybe worth considering if you are likely to use your van in Austria or Germany (and I believe a few other countries) between November and March.

 

Brian,

 

Are you sure Vanco4Season is currently available in 215/70 R15C size? (See this earlier thread)....................

My apologies to all, and you are of course right Derek. I'm afraid I misread the size chart for 4seasons,and then applied that to the load, speed ratings, and pressures table. Thank you for spotting that, and apologies again to MIke if he's wasted any time on a fruitless wild goose chase in the meantime.