new to MHs

[Antonio]

Hi out there

I,m in the midst of selling my fathers house and when this is done I plan to buy a MH. My plan is to buy a small property in Andalucia, where I used to live, and spend 2 to 3 months a year back in the UK, living in the MH. As this will be my first MH any info would be great. I need one for myself and Cassie,my cocker, so it does not need to be too big. I don't want to spend more than £20,000 on it. I've recently been looking at Fords Herald Templar. I will be spending most of my time back in the UK in North Yorkshire and Cumbria visiting,scrounging, off my daughters. Im 57 and fitish, and at the moment run a 1984 lightweight landrover, so mechanically I'm not too bad. :-)

Cheers.

[PJay]

Don't forget that as you will be living full time in Mh , you will need space for carrying more clothes etc. One other thing you will need a Uk address for tax and insurance,MOt(Daughters ?) Also be aware that you will have to inform the ins of your intention of being out of UK most of the time, also same goes for health insurance. You may be classed as a Spainish resident, so that may impact on your Insurances. One other point , you may not be covered by the NHS, if you are out of contry more than 6 months.

 

Lots of questions to ask, and there must be people on this forum, who will be able to advise

GOOd Luck, and also WELCOME to the Forum

PJay

[Guest JudgeMental]

With 20k to spend I think you could do better if you buy LHD. As for Spain the economy a basket case...Easy to buy and nigh on impossible to sell. I would also look at whats happening in Cyprus, the tactics being used there could easily spread to other EU countries in dificulty.....it is called contagion *-)

 

I would think long and hard regards residency and purchasing a property in Spain and seek advice. Why not rent or use the camper, apartments/villas don't cost more then a months pitch on a campsite if you shop around..

 

personally I would buy a better van and full time in it, ...In both countries and stay footloose and fancy free and above all mobile! :-D

 

PS dont bank your savings in Spain

[nowtelse2do]

If I have read this right, your base will be in Spain and not the UK. So the van would have to be registered over there and insured under the Spanish regulations. Would you be using it as everyday transport or would you be keeping the Landrover?

 

I had a look at a Templar once and decided it was a bit to fragile and not a lot of payload so did not pursue it. What year is it?

 

Dave

[Brian Kirby]

To be clear, you plan on living in Spain (Andalusia) for 9 months, and visiting UK for 3 months, each year? I'm assuming that the 9 months and the 3 months will be blocks of time, and not split into one month here and three there? I also assume the 3 months in UK will be during the summer, and the 9 months in Spain will be autumn, winter, and spring? I further assume you will then have no UK address?

 

If the above are correct, you will be deemed to have taken Spanish residency (absent from UK/present in Spain for more than 6 months in any year) and will have to register and insure vehicles in Spain. I think you may also have take out a Spanish driving licence. If correct with my assumptions, I think that mitigates strongly in favour of buying this motorhome in Spain, after you have found and bought the property you want.

 

I believe you will have great administrative difficulty trying to register a UK manufactured, RHD, motorhome in Spain.

[Antonio]

Thanks for the replies.

I used to live in Ugijar in las alpuarras region of Andalucia. I only came back because of the death on Ann, my partner. I stayed for a couple of years, but came back to the UK to care for my father and because the house in Spain belonged to Ann. Although I had the userfruct on the property, under Spanish law I had to pay inheritance tax, which would have been around 15,000 euros!

Having lived there I know a lot about the laws, residencia, vehicles etc; and to be honest it is sometimes better to leave it up to them. If you did everything by the book in Spain it would take up all your time.

I plan to buy in the UK as I will need somewhere to live as soon as the house is sold. I plan to buy in Ugijar as I cant afford to buy here. I plan to spend Nov, dec and january in the UK and the rest of the time in Spain. I have a 6 year old cocker, so flying is out of the question, but I have friends over there so I can get a cheap flight back here and keep my ticket to show I have been out of the country. As regards insurance. I had an English car in Spain and it was insured by a Spanish firm, which also gave 96 days cover in the rest of the EU, although it wasn't really legal, as the vehicle needs to have tax paid in the country of origin. Fully comp with breakdown cover for 250 euros for a Freelander.

As for the medical side. Registered at the local health centre, no problems, just needed an address there and my EHIC. I have a Spanish NIE number. I will be using my sisters address in the UK.

My biggest problem is what type of MH to get. My nearest dealer is Hoyles of Denholme and Baldwins. Ho and sorting out my shotguns, but thats another story

:-S I need something, reliable, and the abillity to carry a fair bit of gear. Any thoughts would be very helpfull and welcomed.

:-)

[Brian Kirby]

Antonio - 2013-04-02 1:25 PM................. As regards insurance. I had an English car in Spain and it was insured by a Spanish firm, which also gave 96 days cover in the rest of the EU, although it wasn't really legal, as the vehicle needs to have tax paid in the country of origin. ....................... :-)

But that was really my point regarding insurance of a UK registered vehicle. Forgive the question, but have you thought through, or asked, what having insurance that wasn't "really legal" means?

 

My suspicion would be that if it came to making a claim, it would have been likely to have been rejected, and the insurance declared void, for exactly the reason you state.

 

Depending on the circumstances, that could have had dire consequences for you, including in the worst case, quite a spell in prison. It is the owner/driver of the vehicle who is legally liable, not the insurance company. If the insurer were to reject a claim under the circumstances you describe, you would become personally liable for whatever level of damages resulted from the incident.

 

So with the proposed van. If it is registered in UK, you should insure it, MoT it, and tax it in UK, otherwise I think you run a considerable personal risk.

[BGD]

Hi Antonio and welcome.

 

Bit of a boring legal waffle coming up..............but I hope it may help a bit.

 

One thing that you really do need to be fully aware of is that it is completely illegal, indeed it is a criminal offence to drive a UK vehicle on any public road, whether in the UK or in Spain or France or any other country in Europe, if it is not at that time fully legal as per the regulatory requirements of it's home country of registration.

 

For a UK car or van this means it must be registered to a UK address, and it must have current Road Fund Licence and a current MOT (assuming it is not so new that it doesn't yet need an MOT).

 

Additionally, it is illegal (and a criminal offence) to try to "SORN" a UK vehicle outside of the UK.

It must be laid up in the UK.

 

 

 

Whilst there are a couple of (dubious) insurance companies who will happily take your money and give you a piece of paper that appears to show you have insurance cover on such a UK-registered, non-taxed and/or non-MOT'd vehicle; you are NOT legally insured, as you are in breach of your implied duty to maintain the vehicle such that it is legal to be driven on those Spanish (or other countries) roads.

 

There has been a massive (and frankly long overdue) crackdown by the Guardia Traffico on such non-Spanish, illegal vehicles in the past couple of years.......they have been educated on the requirements of UK (and French and Portuguese and German etc) vehicles; and at their surprise checkpoints now they are looking for a current tax disc and an MOT certificate on any UK number-plated vehicle. Haven't got either? Then vehicle will be seized and you arrested and charged, and then heavily fined in court.

 

Also, and maybe even worse, is that in the event of you having an accident, the first thing the insurance assessor or indeed Guardia would want to see is proof of the legality of the vehicle.

Once he or they had established that clearly you were not driving it legally; indeed that you were committing a criminal offence by driving it; then the insurers will refuse to pay out on any claim; and you are likely to be arrested and charged with criminal fraud, and have the vehicle seized and crushed.

That's not the end of it though.

The injured parties and /or their own insurers will then sue you personally for the damages/losses they've suffered if the accident was your fault. If you've caused serious injuries, those claims could be against you personally for tens, or hundreds of thousands of euros, or even more.

And all such claims can now be pursued across Europe; so being back in UK for example, or having assets in another European country, doesn't mean that you/they escape a court judgment.

 

 

 

It really really really isn't worth the risk of driving anything, anywhere, illegally any more. You face the very real risk of losing that vehicle, being criminally prosecuted, and/or being made bankrupt.

 

So, if you're thinking of buying a UK registered Motorhome, bear in mind that it'll need to be registered to a UK address, have continuous UK tax and MOT, you must tell your UK or other insurers about how long per trip you're going to be abroad, etc.

[Antonio]

Hi

I have no intension of being illeagal. I would MOT,tax and insure the vehicle in the UK and would return,annually to re-new. I know I have 186 days in Spain because of my status, and, as I understand, at the moment, all you have to do is drive to Gib and stay for over 24 hrs and it all starts again. What I was trying to say is the law is the law, but in Spain they interpretate it different. My friends out there have an old English car,no tax or MOT,but she has it insured in Spain,4 years ago a scooter ran into her, she claimed and got paid out!! I know its wrong,but its the way out there. Anyroadup, been looking and looking, more confused, but give me your thoughts please.

97 Auto-Sleeper

2.5D

Transit RWD

57,000 miles

£14.995

[Guest JudgeMental]

How do you expect an of us to give an opinion on such an old van....You could be entering a world of grief...how would any of us know. Someone on here is selling a 2007 Hobby van..PM me if interested and Ill put you in touch, it will cost more but at least you will be able to sleep at night :D

[Derek Uzzell]

Antonio

 

As JudgeMental has suggested, asking for advice on an elderly motorhome is unlikely to be productive, as the condition of the particular vehicle will be more important than the design. (As the owner of a 1984 Land-Rover you should be well aware of the potential pitfalls of buying an old vehicle!)

 

This advert tallies with your description http://tinyurl.com/cx6s4bq

 

You did not say it was a “Duetto” you were asking about, but I’ll assume it is.

 

A Duetto is a good deal smaller than a Herald Templar and, logically, it would be more challenging to live for several months at a time in a Duetto-sized motorhome than in a Templar-sized one. However, if you are confident you could tolerate living in a small motorhome, smallness has its advantages.

 

Having owned one myself, I suggest you cross the Herald Templar off your shopping-list. Its original heating system was based on an Italian-made Atwood Confort-3 heater that – to all intents and purposes – cannot be repaired nowadays. If you bought a Templar with a Confort-3 and the heater developed problems (and Confort-3s always had a dubious reliability record) you could be looking at a £1500+ bill for replacement with a new Truma-made equivalent.

 

There are plenty of sub-£20k Templar-size motorhomes, but you’d be best to choose one with a ‘caravan type’ heating system comprising a convector heater and separate water-boiler, preferably with both operable on 230V as well as gas. For example http://tinyurl.com/ccc76zk

 

However, as you are used to LHD vehicles, you SHOULD be able to get better value for money in the UK by buying LHD rather than RHD.

[BGD]

Antonio - 2013-04-02 8:47 PM

 

Hi

I have no intension of being illeagal. I would MOT,tax and insure the vehicle in the UK and would return,annually to re-new. I know I have 186 days in Spain because of my status, and, as I understand, at the moment, all you have to do is drive to Gib and stay for over 24 hrs and it all starts again. What I was trying to say is the law is the law, but in Spain they interpretate it different. My friends out there have an old English car,no tax or MOT,but she has it insured in Spain,4 years ago a scooter ran into her, she claimed and got paid out!! I know its wrong,but its the way out there. Anyroadup, been looking and looking, more confused, but give me your thoughts please.

97 Auto-Sleeper

2.5D

Transit RWD

57,000 miles

£14.995

 

 

Antonio-

 

Apologies; it wasn't my intention to imply that you were going to run your MH illegally.

I was only prompted to try to clarify the legalities for you as you'd actually mentioned yourself that you'd previously been running your car here with "not really legal" insurance.

 

 

 

My understanding on the length of time that an non-indigenous vehicle can be in another EU member State is that the "clock" absolutely does not go back to zero if you just leave that country for 1 day; and then start again at "day 1" when you re-enter the country the following day.

 

The limit is I believe a "running" one; basically "186 days out of any running 365 days" (if that makes sense)

 

So to avoid being illegal, I think you could only have your UK registered (and UK taxed and UK MOT'd, registered to a bona fide UK address of yours) motorhome in Spain for up to a total of 186 days in any running 365 day period.

 

 

[Guest JudgeMental]

what are you a policeman..... When we were in Spain last winter talked with many deeply tanned Englazie who had been living out there on campsites for over 10 years. Like a lot of med countries the laws are there and get totally ignored..

 

 

 

"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws"

 

Cornelius Tacitus

(55-117 A.D.)

[BGD]

JudgeMental - 2013-04-03 2:40 PM

 

what are you a policeman..... When we were in Spain last winter talked with many deeply tanned Englazie who had been living out there on campsites for over 10 years. Like a lot of med countries the laws are there and get totally ignored..

 

 

 

"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws"

 

Cornelius Tacitus

(55-117 A.D.)

 

 

 

Eddie - he asked.

 

Do you have any info or helpful advice that you could provide for him as a new member here on the topic that he has asked us about?

[Derek Uzzell]

It's not my business to suggest how other people manage their lives, but the logistics of Antonio's project sound problematical. If nothing else, the idea of using a motorhome in the UK across a 3 months winter period and then leaving it to stand idle for 9 months (which the plan appears to be) will do the vehicle no good.

 

Antonio said earlier "My biggest problem is what type of MH to get." but I'd question whether buying and keeping a motorhome in the UK makes best sense. I would have thought obtaining a motorhome in Spain and driving it to the UK for the winter would be more logical, or keeping a caravan in the UK and towing it during the winter with a Spanish-registered car.

 

The maximum amount of time a 'foreign' vehicle can be in an EU country before registration in that country is required is 6 months in a 12-month period. As BGD has advised, the 12-month period 'rolls' and the total of the time-periods spent in any country accumulates. Taking a vehicle from Spain to Gibraltar for a couple of days would mean the vehicle's time spent in Spain would not grow while the vehicle was in Gibraltar, but that's all. As soon as the vehicle returns to Spain the vehicle's 'time-in-Spain' total starts increasing again.

[Guest JudgeMental]

BGD - 2013-04-03 1:55 PM

 

JudgeMental - 2013-04-03 2:40 PM

 

what are you a policeman..... When we were in Spain last winter talked with many deeply tanned Englazie who had been living out there on campsites for over 10 years. Like a lot of med countries the laws are there and get totally ignored..

 

 

 

"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws"

 

Cornelius Tacitus

(55-117 A.D.)

Eddie - he asked.

Do you have any info or helpful advice that you could provide for him as a new member here on the topic that he has asked us about?

 

I did not realize until now that the plan was to leave the van here for 9 months until now, and that I consider bonkers. He could easily live in the van or a house whatever in Spain and come backwards and forwards in comfort and do a bit of travelling when down in Spain but its really none of my business. Like I said there is a lovely LHD Hobby van for sale slightly north of Antonio's budget, but a seriously better choice then the expensive old banger's he is considering.

 

That he wants to come here during the harshest weather of the year and spend the hottest period of the year in Spain...again bonkers....but again.... none of my business

[neilmac]

It does seem illogical to spend the "worst" months in each location - but each to their own.

 

We own a property in Spain and also spend a LOT of time motorhoming and in order to stay within the rules (as UK residents) we don't spend more than the allowed 183 days per year (on a rolling basis) in Spain which avoids taxation and residency problems. But its actually quite hard to keep track of *-) ( if you own a property in Spain there are also potential problems if you stay more than 90 days at a time too).

 

The basics are simple though - Uk van = Uk address, uk insurance, mot, tax etc and don't overstay the time limits when you own Spanish property.

 

Having said that, who checks your coming and going across neighbouring borders to say where you were and when?

 

We just do what we believe to be within the rules as we understand them :-) and we spend winter time in Spain and summertime in UK, well that way round works for us anyway.

[Antonio]

I'll try to clear things a bit :-|

nielmac seems to know what I mean.

When the house sells I will need to live somewhere with my dog. I have been thinking of a MH before I returned to the UK. I will have to buy here as I will need a home strait away.

The reason I plan to spend Nov, Dec and jan here is that I found it difficult to be alone with the memories of Ann over the Christmas period and it would be good for me to be with my daughters and grandchildren then. Also feb is a good time to go back when all the almond blossom is out. Winter in the Alpuharras was as cold, or even colder than in the UK! I could also plan it so the vans MOT,tax etc ran out when I was back here.

The bureaucracy in Spain is unbelievable. I just did my best.

I had to get a licence from the town hall, at a certain time,on a certain day to burn cut vegitation on my campo. It stated I could have a fire from 19 nov to 14 april. between 8am and 1pm,over 5m from any boundry or road, not on a sunday or fiesta days! I watched as the locals just did what they wanted :-S

Iwill be using the MH as my only form of transport, and as the roads around there are interesting is the reason I'm looking at smaller vehicles.

I'm just so confused. Seems the more recearch I do the more complicated it is, juddering gearbox and clutch on some fiats around 2006, flywheel problems,brake discs, leaks etc;

But none of it will put me off.

It would be nice to buy local, then I can get a service when I come back. Also buying here will give me time to get used to it and iron out any problems I have.

Funnily enough I found it more easy driving RHD vehicles in the mountains, because you can see how near the edge you are,but I must admit when driving LHD ones it was a laugh to see and hear the reactions of friends and family when I picked the up from Granada the went over the pass :->

Keep the comment coming please, it is all interesting stuff B-)

[Brian Kirby]

Thank you, much clearer now. My reaction is that the best van for your purposes will be a PVC (panel van conversion) because, driving solo, and being your only vehicle, this offers the best compromise between internal space, and external bulk, especially if using it for shopping and other routine errands.

 

Where I think I would be looking, bearing in mind the distances you will cover in continental Europe, would be among LHD vans, which make driving on the right that bit easier. I agree that with vans this is not such an acute problem as it is with cars, but it still brings advantages that would benefit a solo driver. It seems as though you are familiar with LHD, and have already adapted to it so, to me, this would be the logical route to take.

 

The further advantage is that this opens up the market to a far greater extent than with RHD vans, and it also offers the prospect of getting more van for your money because vans are generally cheaper outside the UK. If you have a UK address at which you will register, tax, and insure etc. the van, you can import one to the UK from the continent, register it here etc, and it will then give the advantages you seek plus having been cheaper to buy and making the continental leg of your journeys to and fro that bit easier.

 

I think I'd be looking, for example, for used Adria PVCs (but also at Possl and Globecar - there are also quite a few others, but these ranges should give you an idea of what you want, and there should be relatively plentiful examples around to view), and I think I'd go looking initially on mobile.de, here, http://tinyurl.com/6ap65zo as the German market generally has the largest range at the best prices.

 

Don't worry for now how you do the importing bit, sort out what you think you might want, and then come back and ask about importing. It is reasonably easy, and there are various ways of doing this.

[Rayjsj]

Antonio - 2013-03-30 11:55 AM

 

Hi out there

I,m in the midst of selling my fathers house and when this is done I plan to buy a MH. My plan is to buy a small property in Andalucia, where I used to live, and spend 2 to 3 months a year back in the UK, living in the MH. As this will be my first MH any info would be great. I need one for myself and Cassie,my cocker, so it does not need to be too big. I don't want to spend more than £20,000 on it. I've recently been looking at Fords Herald Templar. I will be spending most of my time back in the UK in North Yorkshire and Cumbria visiting,scrounging, off my daughters. Im 57 and fitish, and at the moment run a 1984 lightweight landrover, so mechanically I'm not too bad. :-)

Cheers.

 

I think before you even look you need to decide where the MH will spend most of it's life ? in the UK or on Mainland Europe.

If mainland Europe then what 'The Judge' and Brian says makes most sense, buy LHD, a European brand,

If you want to Tour The Lake District and North Yorkshire, then I suggest you get an 'unobtrusive' Van conversion, in a Standard Metallic finish. So, that it doesn't 'Shout out' Campervan, a Devon Conversions 'Monte Carlo' or a 'Murvi Morello' should be ok for you and your pooch, easy to drive and park, and good for 'Wild camping' in the North of Scotland etc., Good Hunting. Ray

[Brian Kirby]

Antonio, I have e-mailed you.

[Guest pelmetman]

Hi Antonio,

 

Just to add my two penneth worth ;-).................or should that be 2 cents :D

 

If I were in your shoes...............I'd defiantly buy a camper................and 20k is a healthy budget for a decent one ;-)....................just do your research carefully and use your nose as well as your eyes 8-)

 

As for buying in Spain........My old man lives out there plus my older brother.......and its true to say that Spain isn't the basket case the press would have us believe *-)....................and the Russians seem to be the biggest buyers at the moment, whether the recent events in Cyprus will encourage them to buy more or less remains to be seen *-)...........But to be honest I'd wait as all the doo doo has yet to hit the fan >:-)...........So I'd go traveling around Europe for a while B-)..........

 

Edit to add........Your mechanically gifted ;-).............so perhaps an older vehicle would be even better for you :-D................no complicated computers, fix with a hammer, and loads of low mileage campers out there........check out my "Bargain Bangers" thread B-)

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

I hope you don't mind me giving an opinion, but having a brother who lives in Kendal I'd say the idea of spending three months living in a van at that time of year with all the resultant challenges of frozen water, and frozen you sounds like a miserable existence, and it rains an awful lot there too.Factor in the challenges of potentially being walled up in a small space in the shortest daylight hours in the year, watching the rain come down would for me at least drive me nuts

 

Given that your also going to be driving through Europe again at that time of year has the potential not to be a barrel of laughs either. Whilst I can understand the attachment you probably have to your pet, this also seems to be dictating your plans, could you for example leave your dog with a trusted friend, then simply fly to the UK, and put some of your 20k budget towards alternative accommodation, such as a "Holiday home" winter let, plenty in Cumbria.

 

That solution cuts out all the difficulties of vans, and legalities, and getting there and back, freezing your nuts off, clothes washing, and the 101 one things that in reasonable weather do not present such a challenge suddenly take on a whole new perspective in the miserable depths of a British winter, mmmm let the plane take the strain, and a cosy warm one bed winter let, a no brainer for me.

 

We have just had and still are having one of the coldest winters in 100 years,earlier in the winter torrential rains and floods and particularly bad in your chosen destination this year. I certainly would not have wanted to spend three days in my PVC even though it is a top spec one with all the comforts of home, never mind 3 months, mind you if it was in Cumbria I could have turned up at my brothers and hope that he would take me in, otherwise it would be down the Travel Lodge, and a quick dash home. ;-)

 

And PLEASE do not take this personally, as you say you'll be visiting relatives, but sometimes we can out wear a welcome, the results can be devastating to family relationships, and is not always so apparent even though it is happening in front of your eyes, this happened to a friend of mine that decided to make extended visits to his daughters home in Majorca, of course I have no idea of your personal relationships, but again if it was me I'd be taking that into consideration.

[Guest pelmetman]

1footinthegrave - 2013-04-06 7:28 PM

 

I hope you don't mind me giving an opinion, but having a brother who lives in Kendal I'd say the idea of spending three months living in a van at that time of year with all the resultant challenges of frozen water, and frozen you sounds like a miserable existence, and it rains an awful lot there too.Factor in the challenges of potentially being walled up in a small space in the shortest daylight hours in the year, watching the rain come down would for me at least drive me nuts

 

Given that your also going to be driving through Europe again at that time of year has the potential not to be a barrel of laughs either. Whilst I can understand the attachment you probably have to your pet, this also seems to be dictating your plans, could you for example leave your dog with a trusted friend, then simply fly to the UK, and put some of your 20k budget towards alternative accommodation, such as a "Holiday home" winter let, plenty in Cumbria.

 

That solution cuts out all the difficulties of vans, and legalities, and getting there and back, freezing your nuts off, clothes washing, and the 101 one things that in reasonable weather do not present such a challenge suddenly take on a whole new perspective in the miserable depths of a British winter, mmmm let the plane take the strain, and a cosy warm one bed winter let, a no brainer for me.

 

We have just had and still are having one of the coldest winters in 100 years,earlier in the winter torrential rains and floods and particularly bad in your chosen destination this year. I certainly would not have wanted to spend three days in my PVC even though it is a top spec one with all the comforts of home, never mind 3 months, mind you if it was in Cumbria I could have turned up at my brothers and hope that he would take me in, otherwise it would be down the Travel Lodge, and a quick dash home. ;-)

 

Yep forgot that bit about staying in the UK at that time of year :-S........................Good advice Mike...... your not just a pretty face are you :D..................Ooop's forgot.............I've seen your face (lol) (lol)

[nowtelse2do]

Antonio, I e-mailed you a couple of day's ago. Look in your junk box, that's where all my e-mails seem to go when trying to contact someone. :D I to think a camper van would be best but after a long while it can start to feel a bit cramped, just my opinion. :-D

 

I live near Todmorden but I'm in Kent at the moment, won't be home until the 9th.

 

Dave (nowtelse2do)