silverback Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 Hi Richard, just a thought on your mpg, ive just come back from 1000 mile tour of scotland, i returned 27mpg brim to brim van weighed 4150 kg 3000 mile on clock, so maybe yours is a bit on the low side unless youve been hammering it ;-) jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted April 6, 2013 Author Share Posted April 6, 2013 silverback - 2013-04-06 4:43 PM Hi Richard, just a thought on your mpg, ive just come back from 1000 mile tour of scotland, i returned 27mpg brim to brim van weighed 4150 kg 3000 mile on clock, so maybe yours is a bit on the low side unless youve been hammering it ;-) jonathan Thanks Jonathon - 26 to 29 is about what I expected as my old Starlet II 2.2 hdi Peugeot (3500 kg) on the previous chassis did much about the same. I tend to cruise at just under 96 kph or 60 mph on main roads and motorways so that I don't have to pass too many trucks and less on single track roads especially in France where the 50 - to - 90 changeable speed limits in villages and near junctions can drive you daft if you are doing much above 80 kph or 50 mph. So in my view hardly thrashing it? Before buying this van I drove a few from nearly new to 2008 and they all seemed to be broadly similar on shortish test drives showing low 20's - except for a Swift on a Peugeot 2.2 110 bhp which drove very well and showed nearer 30 on a 5 mile test drive. Perhaps I should have bought that one - although the rattles and clatters from behind were pretty bad suggesting debatable build quality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 Binding rear brakes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted April 6, 2013 Author Share Posted April 6, 2013 Brambles - 2013-04-06 5:16 PM Binding rear brakes? Nope - I jacked it up and checked 'em !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 Tracker - 2013-04-06 5:08 PM.........Thanks Jonathon - 26 to 29 is about what I expected as my old Starlet II 2.2 hdi Peugeot (3500 kg) on the previous chassis did much about the same.............. Are you talking real world MPG, though Rich, or trip computer fairy MPG? :-) What MPG you get if you log consumption over a number of fills will be very different, in my experience, from what the trip tells you! Forgive the OT question, but are you aware that your van is subject to lower speed limits in France as it is over 3.5 tonnes but less than 12 tonnes? These limits are: 110kph on autoroutes, 100kph on dual carriageways (but only those with a central reservation), 80 kph on ordinary two lane roads - and these should be shown on white circular discs (200mm diameter) with black lettering (150mm high) on the rear of your vehicle. Also, where the limit on approach to towns is indicated as 70kph, you are limited to 50kph. The 50kph limit is not further modified, and does not need to be stated on the rear of the vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muswell Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 This is not an answer to your question but I had an old model Saab 900 which developed a rattle in the door which sounded just like something had come loose. I told the garage about this at the first service and they said it was the door seal and sprayed it with silicone. A friend of mine then got a similar rattle and laughed when I told him to spray the seal... but it worked. Then on a new model 900 I detected a slight knocking noise when ticking-over which sounded like a bearing problem. It turned out that Saab had some clever valve which stopped petrol fumes leaking out into the air and introduced them into the combustion mix and mine was a bit noisy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted April 6, 2013 Author Share Posted April 6, 2013 Thanks Brian - yes I am aware of the lower speed limits that apply to over 3.5 tonne although I am really sorry but I clean forgot to apply the lower speed limit stickers! Silly me! The only limits that I need worry about in the real world are the 80/50 instead of 90/70 on single carriageway and approach to town roads, although I don't know how Monsieur Gendarme would know the weight of my van without stopping me and looking at the weight plate! One also has to be aware of the proliferation of 30 kph signs in some towns and villages and I do try to keep to the limits in spite of often confusing, absent or conflicting signs!. Plenty of radar toting Gendarmerie were spotted most days but particularly at weekends when presumably criminals take a day off - just have to hope that I spotted them all or those that I missed were kindly coppers and not haters of Les Anglais! In direct contrast we only saw one radar toting cop in some 1500 miles in Spain - and he was pretty obvious if you are alert! All fuel consumption figures are always taken tank full to tank full as the trip mpg is notoriously over optimistic by between 5 to 10% - and even that is not consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony M Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 Hope I may be able to help with this one. I experienced exactly the same symptoms with my 2011 2.3 m/j 130 Adria from new. I took it into our local Fiat dealer who admitted that they could hear the noise but as it couldn't be reproduced in the workshop when not under load they failed to come to a conclusion. I put up with it for several months, hoping it would go away, which of course it didn't and then tried an independent deisel specialist. He came up with various possibilities to no avail. After several more months (when this 'pinking' noise was really starting to get to me) I took it into another Fiat dealer, who, after a brief test drive, immediately suggested it was probably the EGR valve as they had come accross the problem several times. A new valve was fitted (under warranty) and I'm delighted to say the van has run as sweet as a nut ever since. As I said the noise was exactly as you describe and was more pronounced under load (on a gradient) and came on around 2000rpm. Hope this helps. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 Tracker - 2013-04-06 5:26 PM Brambles - 2013-04-06 5:16 PM Binding rear brakes? Nope - I jacked it up and checked 'em !! He put his wallet under the rear axle Brambles :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 Dave, I really have no idea what moths have to do with Tracker's rear axle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 Tony M - 2013-04-06 8:57 PM Hope I may be able to help with this one. I experienced exactly the same symptoms with my 2011 2.3 m/j 130 Adria from new. I took it into our local Fiat dealer who admitted that they could hear the noise but as it couldn't be reproduced in the workshop when not under load they failed to come to a conclusion. I put up with it for several months, hoping it would go away, which of course it didn't and then tried an independent deisel specialist. He came up with various possibilities to no avail. After several more months (when this 'pinking' noise was really starting to get to me) I took it into another Fiat dealer, who, after a brief test drive, immediately suggested it was probably the EGR valve as they had come accross the problem several times. A new valve was fitted (under warranty) and I'm delighted to say the van has run as sweet as a nut ever since. As I said the noise was exactly as you describe and was more pronounced under load (on a gradient) and came on around 2000rpm. Hope this helps. Tony There you go tracker, someone with same issue so sounds like a good bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 Brambles - 2013-04-06 9:17 PM Dave, I really have no idea what moths have to do with Tracker's rear axle! They're very overweight moths ;-).......yet to see the light of day I'll admit :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted April 6, 2013 Author Share Posted April 6, 2013 Oi - you disrespectful bunch of reprobates - you leave my mothses out of this - it's their breeding season and they must not be disturbed - well not as disturbed as I am at least! I will be really hissed off if it is the egr as it is supposed to be a new one - a genuine Fiat part fitted under warranty on our return from Germany last October. But it does make perfect sense to suspect anything recently done to or changed on the van. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted April 6, 2013 Author Share Posted April 6, 2013 Tony M - 2013-04-06 8:57 PM I experienced exactly the same symptoms with my 2011 2.3 m/j 130 Adria from new. After several more months (when this 'pinking' noise was really starting to get to me) I took it into another Fiat dealer, who, after a brief test drive, immediately suggested it was probably the EGR valve as they had come accross the problem several times. A new valve was fitted (under warranty) and I'm delighted to say the van has run as sweet as a nut ever since. As I said the noise was exactly as you describe and was more pronounced under load (on a gradient) and came on around 2000rpm. Hope this helps. Much appreciated Tony - thanks - I will investigate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 Tracker - 2013-04-06 10:27 PM Oi - you disrespectful bunch of reprobates - you leave my mothses out of this - it's their breeding season and they must not be disturbed - well not as disturbed as I am at least! Not my fault Rich :-S ................Its that Brambles he led me astray 8-).............he has no appreciation of the breeding habits of the wallet moth *-).................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted April 6, 2013 Author Share Posted April 6, 2013 pelmetman - 2013-04-06 10:38 PM Not my fault Rich :-S ................Its that Brambles he led me astray 8-).............he has no appreciation of the breeding habits of the wallet moth *-).................. Perhaps he should try opening his wallet more often and let the poor little bu@@ers see the light of day now and then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Collings Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 Lots of therotical stuff about combustion bouncing around but outside of a fully equipped engine lab no way of knowing what if anything unusual is happening inside the combustion chamber. Can you be absolutly sure it is combustion noise. Could it be some other part of the drive train. I ran a 2.4 unturbocharged VW T4 VW for several years that had an annoying noise under full and part throttle over the same range of revs and noticable in the higher three gears. It stopped sharply once over the critical speed. It stayed the same for over 40K. Engine noise in the lower gears probably drowned it out. Eventually I came to the conclusion that it was probably a loose and weak cush rebound spring in the clutch pressure plate. At light throttle there was enough tension to hold the spring but as load increased compressing the drive spring the rebound spring jangled about until higher revs flung outwards hard enough to pin it down. It was never quite bad enough to do a clutch job and was still there when I disposed of the van with 96K on the clock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted April 7, 2013 Author Share Posted April 7, 2013 George Collings - 2013-04-06 11:28 PM Can you be absolutely sure it is combustion noise. Could it be some other part of the drive train. . No George, I can't be absolutely sure what it is, but it is throttle load and gradient related, sounds just like pinking used to sound in the old days on a petrol engine and appears to be coming from the top of the engine - as far as I can tell from my side of the bulkhead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 Brian Kirby - 2013-04-06 6:35 PM......................Forgive the OT question, but are you aware that your van is subject to lower speed limits in France as it is over 3.5 tonnes but less than 12 tonnes? These limits are: 110kph on autoroutes, 100kph on dual carriageways (but only those with a central reservation), 80 kph on ordinary two lane roads - and these should be shown on white circular discs (200mm diameter) with black lettering (150mm high) on the rear of your vehicle. Also, where the limit on approach to towns is indicated as 70kph, you are limited to 50kph. The 50kph limit is not further modified, and does not need to be stated on the rear of the vehicle. Sorry, I got called away before I'd properly finished this! The obligation to show the speed limit signs is a must for French registered vehicles, but I'm not so sure about foreign registered vehicles in France. Such signs are not obligatory in UK (where we measure speed in MPH) so, on a UK (or other EU) registered vehicle, they should not become obligatory. There may well be other national legislation in various countries around Europe, requiring vehicles registered in those countries to carry various indications of various kinds. It would hardly be practical to have signs to suit every country one visits plastered all over one's vehicle, and the notion of stopping at borders to remove one lot and apply another, so as to avoid possible conflicts/confusion, seems to me more or less unworkable. Neither have I ever seen anyone doing so. Observation of French national speed limits is obviously required but, on balance, I'm inclined to think that displaying these signs is not an obligation, and that French national legislation is not applicable to visiting foreign vehicles - providing such vehicles are legal in the states where they are registered. The Vienna Convention on Road Traffic (which is adopted by the EU), which is the governing international legislation, requires all signatory states (which includes all EU states) to admit vehicles registered in other signatory states to their roads as "International Traffic". The main proviso for a vehicle to qualify as International Traffic, is that it shall be fully legal in its state of registration. Since UK legislation does not require speed limit signs on the rear of any vehicles (and if it did such signs would be in MPH, not KPH), I don't see how there can be any obligation to do this, and nor do I think it makes much sense. Before anyone pounces, this is just my opinion, and if anyone chooses to carry these signs I can't see that it would do any harm. If anyone is really bothered by this, I suggest writing to your MEP to obtain clarification. Just in case this idea gets a little misapplied in respect of headlamps :-), another requirement of the Convention is that dipped headlamps shall not dazzle other road users, so you are obliged to modify, adjust, or change, left dipping lamps when in right hand traffic, so as not to dazzle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 Oh blimey,on reading your "part two" of that lot I've really lost the will to live now, I'll flog mine and take the bus instead. :-S sometimes there can be such a thing as information overload. Perhaps we should keep a copy of construction and use regulations as well in our vans. 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted April 7, 2013 Author Share Posted April 7, 2013 You can always rely on Brian to answer the question that nobody has asked! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 Tracker - 2013-04-07 12:04 PM You can always rely on Brian to answer the question that nobody has asked! :D :D :D And all in just a few words most of the time :D Although like most, I have my moments, not so many now that John47 isn't on the scene though. >:-) :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Collings Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 Tracker. Bearing in mind the combustion chamber is burried under a big lump of aluminium head, camshaft and probably noise absorbent cam cover but sounds at the top of the motor I would be inclined to get the spanners out and check the nuts and bolts holding anything to do with the common rail and injector pipes and the one holding the injectors. Harmonic vibrations can be highly unpredictable and it only needs something flexing where there is a bit of slack to produce a noise. There are listening devices available to the trade to help diagnose where sound is eminating from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 1footinthegrave - 2013-04-07 11:58 AM Oh blimey,on reading your "part two" of that lot I've really lost the will to live now, I'll flog mine and take the bus instead. :-S sometimes there can be such a thing as information overload. Perhaps we should keep a copy of construction and use regulations as well in our vans. 8-) Sorry 1foot, I hadn't realised this might apply to you van. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Tracker - 2013-04-07 12:04 PM You can always rely on Brian to answer the question that nobody has asked! Just thinking of your driving licence and wallet, sweetie pie! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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