Capital punishment

[Guest Had Enough]

Still you squirm. Still you insinuate that I may not be who I am. Still you refuse to do the one simple thing that would put this to bed and spare everyone else the boredom. Still you bully about coming to my home to badger my family. Shame on you!

 

You know you're going to be made to look silly again. Man up and get it over with. I'm waiting by the phone!

 

And your diversionary tactics about my pension arrangements fool no one. This is about one thing - you claiming I'm a liar and me proving I'm not!

 

You've gambled and lost once and you're about to do it again!

 

I'm waiting for your call.

[Guest Had Enough]

Another twenty minutes gone and no phone call. Why is a man who keeps threatening to arrive on my doorstep and badger my family afraid to make a simple phone call?

 

Come on CliveH, put us all out of our misery! Man up! Let's have a chat!

[CliveH]

I say again - it was always about meeting you face to face - doing the due diligence on who you say you are because despite what you said - you have only today actually done what you said you would and provided details to me of your firm.

 

All that cloak and dagger nonsense and the realisation that your using a legal avenue requires the release of the data anyway and BINGO - you release the data!

 

Data that I had anyway - so not a lot of change there.

 

But it is the face to face meeting that I still want. I really do want to ask you why you are such an obnoxious individual.

 

If we met I could confirm that you are a 68 year old male of that name by simply looking at your passport.

 

But we have come some way

 

It has taken you some months - but progress has been made.

(lol)

[Guest Had Enough]

CliveH - 2013-07-08 11:22 AM

 

I say again - it was always about meeting you face to face - doing the due diligence on who you say you are because despite what you said - you have only today actually done what you said you would and provided details to me of your firm.

 

All that cloak and dagger nonsense and the realisation that your using a legal avenue requires the release of the data anyway and BINGO - you release the data!

 

Data that I had anyway - so not a lot of change there.

 

But it is the face to face meeting that I still want. I really do want to ask you why you are such an obnoxious individual.

 

If we met I could confirm that you are a 68 year old male of that name by simply looking at your passport.

 

But we have come some way

 

It has taken you some months - but progress has been made.

(lol)

 

Still you squirm, still you make every excuse to delay the inevitable. If it was about meeting face to face why were you prepared originally to accept the word of your solicitor?

 

Why won't you look up my address, then my number and phone me?

 

You must have Skype, why can't I Skype you as well and show you my passport so you can compare it?

 

Do you really think you're fooling anyone with all this nonsense about meeting face to face?

 

If I am not who I say I am how can you meet me as I won't be at the address given for me by Companies' House. You've not thought to deeply about this have you!

 

So stop the cowardly squirming. Man up and pick up the phone. If you're still unhappy I can then Skype you and show you my passport.

 

But I know, this morning I could have nipped out and bought a forged passport, just so I could fool some small IFA from Hampshire.

 

You couldn't make this up!

 

I'm waiting by the phone - why won't you end this now and make one simple call? You can ask me on the phone why you think I'm an obnoxious individual if you like, just as easy as face to face!

 

But of course you know that any sane person would cut his fingers off rather than meet with you so once more, it's all about squirming and delaying the inevitable!

 

I just hope that further research ny Mr Nixon will put an end to your vile accusations.

 

Ps If you're prepared to make the call and admit that I am who I say I am I guarantee to meet you face to face. There you can see my passport in the flesh! You're the one insisting on it so it will have to be here in the north, but I will willingly meet you and you can ask me anything.

 

The ball is back in your court. But guess what, you'll still find an excuse not to phone me! Coward!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

[antony1969]

I don't get it , I thought it was me and the BNP , CMC crew that were meant to drive folk away and off chatterbox ?

We have an excuse , were just plain thick and don't know what were doing .

[Guest Had Enough]

antony1969 - 2013-07-08 12:22 PM

 

I don't get it , I thought it was me and the BNP , CMC crew that were meant to drive folk away and off chatterbox ?

We have an excuse , were just plain thick and don't know what were doing .

 

 

I agree entirely and I just want CliveH to make one phone call which will prove that I am who I claim to be. You will see that he just keeps coming up with more and more excuses to delay the inevitable.

 

It's clear that I'm in a no-win situation here. If I tell him, as I did with John47, that I no longer want to carry on this debate, he will do (as he did with me and John47) claim that I'm running because I can't back up my claims!

 

All I want is for him to check me out as the main man in my firm, (two minutes) look up my phone number (another two minutes) and phone me to confirm!

 

But he'll continue to prevaricate and come up with reasons that are totally pointless as he knows that once more he's gambled unwisely!

 

I'm sure that you can work out what's happening here! I have just one thing to sort out with CliveH. I have a decent business as described. He keeps asserting that I haven't and am some kind of Walter Mitty. Even his own lawyer told him that I am kosher, but that means CliveH has to be wrong, and we can't have that can we?

 

Why don't you ask him to end this quickly, it's easy?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[antony1969]

Had Enough - 2013-07-08 12:35 PM

 

antony1969 - 2013-07-08 12:22 PM

 

I don't get it , I thought it was me and the BNP , CMC crew that were meant to drive folk away and off chatterbox ?

We have an excuse , were just plain thick and don't know what were doing .

 

 

I agree entirely and I just want CliveH to make one phone call which will prove that I am who I claim to be. You will see that he just keeps coming up with more and more excuses to delay the inevitable.

 

It's clear that I'm in a no-win situation here. If I tell him, as I did with John47, that I no longer want to carry on this debate, he will do (as he did with me and John47) claim that I'm running because I can't back up my claims!

 

All I want is for him to check me out as the main man in my firm, (two minutes) look up my phone number (another two minutes) and phone me to confirm!

 

But he'll continue to prevaricate and come up with reasons that are totally pointless as he knows that once more he's gambled unwisely!

 

I'm sure that you can work out what's happening here! I have just one thing to sort out with CliveH. I have a decent business as described. He keeps asserting that I haven't and am some kind of Walter Mitty. Even his own lawyer told him that I am kosher, but that means CliveH has to be wrong, and we can't have that can we?

 

Why don't you ask him to end this quickly, it's easy?

 

 

 

 

 

 

My ego doesn't need boosting on here to be bothered by wether people believe I'm a skint , thick , roofing conman or not . As long as I know I am that's all I care about .

[Guest pelmetman]

Had Enough - 2013-07-08 7:29 AM

 

 

I love my rut Pelmetman, I'm free and spend as much time motorhoming as I want. Somehow, I suspect that you'd give your right hand to be in it! ;-)

 

My current rut is very nice if a little hot 8-)..................having to sit in the shade of the awning...........had a proper Cornish pasty for lunch:D..................beats working for a living B-)

[Guest Had Enough]

pelmetman - 2013-07-08 1:38 PM

 

Had Enough - 2013-07-08 7:29 AM

 

 

I love my rut Pelmetman, I'm free and spend as much time motorhoming as I want. Somehow, I suspect that you'd give your right hand to be in it! ;-)

 

My current rut is very nice if a little hot 8-)..................having to sit in the shade of the awning...........had a proper Cornish pasty for lunch:D..................beats working for a living B-)

 

It does sound nice and if you enjoy it good luck. But does it occur to you that people can actually enjoy working for a living? I always did and I know people who go to bits when they retire.

 

So please, those of us who don't want to totally retire do so because we want to carry on with a work interest, especially if it's our own business. You may be happy doing nothing, good luck to you but just because some of us want to carry on a bit longer does not make us greedy or grasping or money-fixated. And my motorhome is the one I wanted. It wasn't bought to park on the drive and impress the neighbours!

 

 

 

 

[Guest Had Enough]

As CliveH won't phone me I decided to look him up and I phoned him. Whilst we will never be bosom buddies he now assures me that he does know that I am who I say I am. He qualifies it of course by telling me that he still thinks that I'm some kind of financial illiterate and that he finds it strange that I've managed to build up a decent business. But I can live with that.

 

I now hope that this is ended. It can be as far as I'm concerned.

 

 

[antony1969]

Yippeee , and we all lived happily ever after xx , maybe we can chat about something less boring and different for a change now .

Any one see that programme on bloody Muslims other night ? :D:D

[Guest Had Enough]

antony1969 - 2013-07-08 2:24 PM

 

Yippeee , and we all lived happily ever after xx , maybe we can chat about something less boring and different for a change now .

Any one see that programme on bloody Muslims other night ? :D:D

 

Well, my wife's out all day and I'm stuck at home with the builders.

 

So, speaking as a professional, how often do you think I should give them a brew?

 

 

[antony1969]

Had Enough - 2013-07-08 2:29 PM

 

antony1969 - 2013-07-08 2:24 PM

 

Yippeee , and we all lived happily ever after xx , maybe we can chat about something less boring and different for a change now .

Any one see that programme on bloody Muslims other night ? :D:D

 

Well, my wife's out all day and I'm stuck at home with the builders.

 

So, speaking as a professional, how often do you think I should give them a brew?

 

 

I've been called a lot of things , never professional !

Seen as its quite warm I always appreciate a nice cold orange . Might be nice to offer rubbing some sun tan lotion on those builder type men , you never know you might even enjoy it :D:D

[CliveH]

Had Enough - 2013-07-08 1:57 PM

 

As CliveH won't phone me I decided to look him up and I phoned him. Whilst we will never be bosom buddies he now assures me that he does know that I am who I say I am. He qualifies it of course by telling me that he still thinks that I'm some kind of financial illiterate and that he finds it strange that I've managed to build up a decent business. But I can live with that.

 

I now hope that this is ended. It can be as far as I'm concerned.

 

 

It was not quite like that - but I would be surprised if anyone thought for one moment it was going to be anything different.

 

I realised that when Frank within the first minute had stated that Dave (Pelmetman) was a thick as pigs swill. I was then treated to a sob story about how everyone from Tracker to dave was against him and had been rude to him. I had it all CrinklyStarfish, Starman Uncle Tom Cobbly and all - amazing - we have someone with a mega persecution complex here I thought.

 

I got bored with telling Frank that I agreed he was a camera retailer of some note - because I agreed that was the case weeks and weeks ago.

 

What I still say is that whilst I would never call anyone an illiterate of any sort, financial or otherwise, I am staggered at Franks lack of business " now how " - I have asked him to check out a few things with his accountant because there was even one point raised during our conversation re depreciation that I know Franks business is wasting money on.

 

On reflection Frank, on this point - I do wonder if your accountants just do as you instruct and let you get on with it. It is hard to influence a closed mind. And at the end of the day - no disrespect to the Accountancy Profession at all, but the bottom line for them is to tell you what your tax liability based upon what you have done.

 

Most Accountants and certainly Financial Planners look at what the client is doing and fine tune it for tax efficiency. But Frank was so insistent that he knows best during our chat that (on reflection) I now wonder if the Accountants just take his money and let him get on with it?

 

It boiled down to Frank coming across as an intransigent old fart who feels he has every right to say what he wants about anybody but he gets upset when people reciprocate. And Frank has a prodigious memory for slights and perceived insults. I was genuinely impressed.

 

I only think I made you think Frank when I asked you three time would you use such obnoxious behaviour at your golf club and finally you admitted that you would not. So I asked why do you do it on here then? And I actually believe that made you take stock Frank.

 

Common points? Frank and I agreed that we both find the anti Muslim bias as posted by some distasteful.

 

He accused me of calling him a Liar - and I categorically and had to forcibly deny it - and I think that was accepted by frank in the end. Liar is not a term I would ever use. It was not part of my upbringing. I asked him to show me anywhere I had used the term Liar at him or anybody for that matter - I now the answer is zero. But to hear Frank you would think I did it six times a day for a decade just to annoy him.

 

In conclusion? - Frank is on the sales side of the business and has little to do with he actual financial running of the business it seems. It is OK for Frank to employ "techies" when he need outside expertise but when we do it here in means that we are a two bit IFA firm in a back street location!

 

Which I think even Frank had to laugh at the juxtaposition when I forced him to see it.

 

But fair enough - each should work to our strengths.

 

The best bit?

 

Getting Frank to admit he is arrogant, rude and opinionated - then my saying "Just as well you did not join the Diplomatic Service then".

 

Now that did make him chuckle.

 

 

 

[Guest pelmetman]

Had Enough - 2013-07-08 1:52 PM

 

pelmetman - 2013-07-08 1:38 PM

 

Had Enough - 2013-07-08 7:29 AM

 

 

I love my rut Pelmetman, I'm free and spend as much time motorhoming as I want. Somehow, I suspect that you'd give your right hand to be in it! ;-)

 

My current rut is very nice if a little hot 8-)..................having to sit in the shade of the awning...........had a proper Cornish pasty for lunch:D..................beats working for a living B-)

 

It does sound nice and if you enjoy it good luck. But does it occur to you that people can actually enjoy working for a living? I always did and I know people who go to bits when they retire.

 

So please, those of us who don't want to totally retire do so because we want to carry on with a work interest, especially if it's our own business. You may be happy doing nothing, good luck to you but just because some of us want to carry on a bit longer does not make us greedy or grasping or money-fixated. And my motorhome is the one I wanted. It wasn't bought to park on the drive and impress the neighbours!

 

 

 

 

As a rabid libertarian ;-).......................I believe consenting adults can do what ever they like, providing its legal :D..................so if you wish to carry on working, fill your boots................Your country needs you ;-)..................

 

 

Some of us would rather be doing something else, than keeping the government in the style they wish to become accustomed *-)..................no doubt your'll be more than happy to fund our MP's pay rise :D................... apparently it'll stop them fiddling *-)

[Guest pelmetman]

CliveH - 2013-07-08 4:45 PM

 

 

I realised that when Frank within the first minute had stated that Dave (Pelmetman) was a thick as pigs swill.

 

 

 

He likes me then? B-)

 

Oink oink (lol) (lol)

[antony1969]

And they all lived happily ever after .....

One point though Clive , if I may be so bold sir to say that showing concern over certain Muslim issues does not make anyone anti-Muslim unless someone has stated openly they are , no offence hopefully .

[Guest Had Enough]

CliveH - 2013-07-08 4:45 PM

 

 

In conclusion? - Frank is on the sales side of the business and has little to do with he actual financial running of the business it seems. It is OK for Frank to employ "techies" when he need outside expertise but when we do it here in means that we are a two bit IFA firm in a back street location!

 

 

 

First of all thank you for finally saying unequivocally that I am who I said I am. I was hoping that you'd have a bit more grace about wrapping this up but what you've written above is a travesty of our conversation.

 

I have been responsible for all the major financial decisions in running my business ever since it started! I decide policy, if we're going to open a branch or provide cars for key staff for instance. I negotiated with bank managers, credit card companies and landlords for 25 years.

 

What I told you is that I am not an expert on pensions or leases and I employ accountants and lawyers to handle that side of things. Sensible businessmen concentrate on running their business and leave stuff like that to the professionals.

 

But what's odd is that with all this terrible advice from my accountants and me knowing nothing about business finance I've managed to grow the company year on year in a trade where most people are folding! What's odd is that my balance sheet shows £1.5 million of retained profits over these years. What's odd is that we've survived every recession over the last thirty years!

 

And all this with financially-illiterate me at the helm! And I don't have a single backroom techie. I just use a very good firm of accountants and a good business lawyer. That's what all businesses do!

 

As I said, I'm glad that we've agreed that I am genuine and do have my business but I really do not want your advice on how to run my it. Things have gone quite well so far without you.

 

When you criticised certain aspects of my business you were actually criticising fellow professionals who know my business and my trade far better than you.

 

There's one thing that we all know about accountants and financial advisors, which is that if you laid every one of them in the world end to end they wouldn't reach a conclusion!

 

So please Clive, we're done. No more telling me how to run my firm. I've done OK without you so far.

 

 

[Guest pelmetman]

antony1969 - 2013-07-08 5:02 PM

 

And they all lived happily ever after .....

One point though Clive , if I may be so bold sir to say that showing concern over certain Muslim issues does not make anyone anti-Muslim unless someone has stated openly they are , no offence hopefully .

 

I think its perfectly acceptable to have concerns about how a minority of our Muslim residents behave ;-)........................indeed if the concerns had been listened to earlier, and not smothered by PC rhetoric............then maybe those young girls ordeal would not have continued for years *-)

[Guest Had Enough]

pelmetman - 2013-07-08 5:02 PM

 

CliveH - 2013-07-08 4:45 PM

 

 

I realised that when Frank within the first minute had stated that Dave (Pelmetman) was a thick as pigs swill.

 

 

 

He likes me then? B-)

 

Oink oink (lol) (lol)

 

OK, can we agree on very thin pig swill! ;-)

[Guest Had Enough]

pelmetman - 2013-07-08 5:14 PM

 

antony1969 - 2013-07-08 5:02 PM

 

And they all lived happily ever after .....

One point though Clive , if I may be so bold sir to say that showing concern over certain Muslim issues does not make anyone anti-Muslim unless someone has stated openly they are , no offence hopefully .

 

I think its perfectly acceptable to have concerns about how a minority of our Muslim residents behave ;-)........................indeed if the concerns had been listened to earlier, and not smothered by PC rhetoric............then maybe those young girls ordeal would not have continued for years *-)

 

I can't think of anyone on here who would disagree with that. What was distasteful is that at least one member seemed to brand all Muslims as the same.

 

My neighbours are Muslims. They are liberated, don't wear Muslim clothing and the children go to a normal school. They despise the minority of zealots whose actions threaten all peaceful Muslims as well.

 

[antony1969]

Had Enough - 2013-07-08 5:20 PM

 

pelmetman - 2013-07-08 5:14 PM

 

antony1969 - 2013-07-08 5:02 PM

 

And they all lived happily ever after .....

One point though Clive , if I may be so bold sir to say that showing concern over certain Muslim issues does not make anyone anti-Muslim unless someone has stated openly they are , no offence hopefully .

 

I think its perfectly acceptable to have concerns about how a minority of our Muslim residents behave ;-)........................indeed if the concerns had been listened to earlier, and not smothered by PC rhetoric............then maybe those young girls ordeal would not have continued for years *-)

 

I can't think of anyone on here who would disagree with that. What was distasteful is that at least one member seemed to brand all Muslims as the same.

 

My neighbours are Muslims. They are liberated, don't wear Muslim clothing and the children go to a normal school. They despise the minority of zealots whose actions threaten all peaceful Muslims as well.

 

Strange , slight change of tune with that Frank , you have previously not called me professional but a BNP bigot even though I have previously stated the opposite umpteen times . Explain ?

[Guest Had Enough]

antony1969 - 2013-07-08 5:58 PM

 

Had Enough - 2013-07-08 5:20 PM

 

pelmetman - 2013-07-08 5:14 PM

 

antony1969 - 2013-07-08 5:02 PM

 

And they all lived happily ever after .....

One point though Clive , if I may be so bold sir to say that showing concern over certain Muslim issues does not make anyone anti-Muslim unless someone has stated openly they are , no offence hopefully .

 

I think its perfectly acceptable to have concerns about how a minority of our Muslim residents behave ;-)........................indeed if the concerns had been listened to earlier, and not smothered by PC rhetoric............then maybe those young girls ordeal would not have continued for years *-)

 

I can't think of anyone on here who would disagree with that. What was distasteful is that at least one member seemed to brand all Muslims as the same.

 

My neighbours are Muslims. They are liberated, don't wear Muslim clothing and the children go to a normal school. They despise the minority of zealots whose actions threaten all peaceful Muslims as well.

 

Strange , slight change of tune with that Frank , you have previously not called me professional but a BNP bigot even though I have previously stated the opposite umpteen times . Explain ?

 

There's no change of heart at all. I have never agreed that any political correctness should be applied when dealing with Muslims, or anyone else, and I think it's disgraceful if the police held back because they were worried about being seen as racist.

 

All I have ever objected to is the implication that all Muslims pose a threat to our country and its future.

 

Many Muslims, like my neighbours have moved out of the ghettos and now live in the predominantly white suburbs and with each generation it will increase.

 

I can't be bothered trawling back through hundreds of posts but you have been very vociferous in your attacks on Muslims. The 'one person' I referred to by the way wasn't you, it was onefoot, who is, in my opinion, the most rabid anti-muslim on this forum.

 

There was a point where Chatterbox was dominated by Islam and Muslims. Thankfully, it's calmed down a bit now.

 

Ps I hope that as a roofer you are a professional!

 

 

[antony1969]

Had Enough - 2013-07-08 6:10 PM

 

antony1969 - 2013-07-08 5:58 PM

 

Had Enough - 2013-07-08 5:20 PM

 

pelmetman - 2013-07-08 5:14 PM

 

antony1969 - 2013-07-08 5:02 PM

 

And they all lived happily ever after .....

One point though Clive , if I may be so bold sir to say that showing concern over certain Muslim issues does not make anyone anti-Muslim unless someone has stated openly they are , no offence hopefully .

 

I think its perfectly acceptable to have concerns about how a minority of our Muslim residents behave ;-)........................indeed if the concerns had been listened to earlier, and not smothered by PC rhetoric............then maybe those young girls ordeal would not have continued for years *-)

 

I can't think of anyone on here who would disagree with that. What was distasteful is that at least one member seemed to brand all Muslims as the same.

 

My neighbours are Muslims. They are liberated, don't wear Muslim clothing and the children go to a normal school. They despise the minority of zealots whose actions threaten all peaceful Muslims as well.

 

Strange , slight change of tune with that Frank , you have previously not called me professional but a BNP bigot even though I have previously stated the opposite umpteen times . Explain ?

 

There's no change of heart at all. I have never agreed that any political correctness should be applied when dealing with Muslims, or anyone else, and I think it's disgraceful if the police held back because they were worried about being seen as racist.

 

All I have ever objected to is the implication that all Muslims pose a threat to our country and its future.

 

Many Muslims, like my neighbours have moved out of the ghettos and now live in the predominantly white suburbs and with each generation it will increase.

 

I can't be bothered trawling back through hundreds of posts but you have been very vociferous in your attacks on Muslims. The 'one person' I referred to by the way wasn't you, it was onefoot, who is, in my opinion, the most rabid anti-muslim on this forum.

 

There was a point where Chatterbox was dominated by Islam and Muslims. Thankfully, it's calmed down a bit now.

 

Ps I hope that as a roofer you are a professional!

 

 

Thanks for the explination Frank , thankfully we have established that voicing concern on such subject does not make you a member of the BNP .

As a roofer I am.very professional , never been without work , never advertised although I must admit I do little roofing these days more re-furbs , not as reliant on the weather so much .

[Symbol Owner]

Now that you chaps seem to have concluded your long-winded 'spat(s)' can we get back to Malcolms' original post please?

Here is a fascinating piece 'from the horses' mouth'. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jul/07/hope-prison-lifer-exhausting-sentence

The ex-lifer author of this piece certainly makes one look at sentencing for murder in a new way, and has some reference to the previous post on this forum concerning Ian Brady.

When I did my three months training, many years ago, with the prison welfare service, in an 'open' establishment, something like 2/3 of the inmates were 'lifers', being considered for parole. As part of my long study for my Diploma in Applied Social Studies (don't laugh at the back, there, Pelmetman!) I was privileged to be allowed to interview and base my study (anonymously of course) on one of them.

I obviously can't say much about it, on the grounds of confidentiality and was not allowed to keep a copy of it, but much of Erwin James' article stirred memories and matched my experience of that man all of those years ago (1976). I have no idea, of course, but I do hope that my 'lifer' was able to 'turn his life around' when he got 'outside'. If he is still alive, he will still be the subject of a 'Life Licence' just as will John Venables -- the subject of yet another associated thread on this forum.

 

Colin.