Bartonfolk Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 After much arm twisting from the other half! now thinking of downsizing from our Kontiki 665 to a van conversion such as the Symbol or the Warwick Duo, any-one done the same and what are the pros and cons? Like every-one else I like the idea of easier parking etc but dread the lack of space! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 We downsized from an Autotrail Cheyenne to a Warwick Duo earlier this year and it has been interesting! The Symbol is, in our view, a downsize too far unless you want it to double as a car? Just back from 3400 miles through France and round Northern Spain. On balance we think, for us at least, the benefits of size and ease and comfort of driving, better ride and handling and much less noise, make long distances much more pleasant and counter the lack of interior space. However it does depend on your use. If you like space to lounge about on sites for days at a time I would stick with a coachbuilt but if, like us, you keep getting the urge to motor on, explore, and see what else you can find then a panel van could be right for you - but it will take some getting used to! The beds are very comfortable and feet up lounging is easy and leaves us with a good view out, although the gap when used as two singles is a bit tight for nocturnal perambulations! The supplied table is rubbish. It takes up valuable space overcab and is too narrow for comfortable mealtimes with a metal frame that is impossible to get your feet around to get in. I ditched it and we use a more square table which neatly stows on the inside of the n/s back door and stands on an island leg in use which is much better. The real plus is that you get to use the small overcab for storage. The loo area works OK with more room in the shower than many a coachbuilt, but you do of course have to remove paper etc to shower. The drop down sink is far too big given the available space and makes a proper all over wash quite challenging!. Kitchen and work surface is fine but sliding door can be a pain in the bum to shut at times especially if facing uphill. The full oven is a bit OTT but the oven makes a good breadbin and there is also a good locker underneath it so all in all it is OK - and of course you can still cook a nice meal if you do want to. There is a small sliding table on the back doors but I removed it and fitted it as an extension to the work surface where it gets more use than it would on the back doors. I also fitted a small slide out table under the floating wardrobe which is ideal for evening drinks and morning tea! Storage is tight after a coachbuilt but access to the spaces behind the underbed lockers is greatly improved by making them usable by taking the screws out of the long covers under the seats either side and lifting the panel out. The refillable gas tank should work well although we did have trouble getting ours to fill. I fitted a second battery under the passenger seat and with a solar panel and a suitable inverter the microwave can be used off mains as we rarely use sites. Anything else I can tell you? Please just ask. All in all although not totally convinced, we don't expect to revert to a 'proper' motorhome just yet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 An excellent post tracker. Nearly made me want one. Ha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pampam Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 Yes you've made the warwick duo very appealing auto sleepers always seem nicely finished , I too could go out and buy one after your posting but if I was bartonfolk I'd be reluctant to part with my kontiki But he must know what he wants personally we need the space of a larger vehicle(we aren't very sylphlike) good luck pp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 Probably the best van to convert is an extra long wheelbase Merc 609 or 709, unfortunately they are like hens teeth but they will last forever. The only area to check on is the front windscreen frame and scuttle area which can be a source of rampant tin worm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muswell Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 We started off with a SWB VW T4 which had no outward signs of being a camper, Then after 9 years we upsized by adding a high-top. When the LEZ caught us we upsized slightlly to a SWB Transit Cavarno 2 with basically the same layout as a Symbol but 400mm shorter. The only slight niggle was having to lower the front seat back to get a long enough bed for me. Apart from that we had plenty of space for our needs. I use the past tense because it was stolen 3 weeks ago We value the ease of travel over space for stuff and the sitting area was fine, if you accept that you can't both wander around at the same time. I am wondering what to get as a replacement and it looks like it will have to be at least 5.4m. I am considering 6m vans but I suspect we will go with the shorter length and revel in the extra space compared with before :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartonfolk Posted July 27, 2013 Author Share Posted July 27, 2013 Many thanks for this very informative reply Tracker and all other responses you are kind to have taken the time to give us the details. We too dont spend much time outside our van on sites, although we always stay in them, but do prefer to get out and about and see the area. We are fed up using buses as the van is too big to park, so thought we would buy a 'easy to erect awning!!!!' free standing and leave it on the pitch while out. Off again tomorrow to look at more lay-outs! Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 Bartonfolk - 2013-07-27 11:51 AM ... but do prefer to get out and about and see the area. We are fed up using buses as the van is too big to park, so thought we would buy a 'easy to erect awning!!!!' free standing and leave it on the pitch while out. Just a thought... Re: Parking(in UK?) Although I dare some PVCs will be a fair bit smaller than your current van...when looking at 6mtr+ x 2.3mtrs wide PVCs(Warwick Duo etc), then in reality will the size difference be enough to make it that much easier when it comes to parking it?.... ..because reading the many posts on here, from folk complaining on how they can't park their vans(..with supposed ,"No Motorhome parking" signs and height barriers etc everywhere),it makes you wonder if switching to a 6mtr+ PVC ,would really make that much difference..... :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartonfolk Posted July 27, 2013 Author Share Posted July 27, 2013 Yes you have a point about parking. My husband is 70 next year and we plan this to be our last van, our thinking is we can use it for days out as well as camping trips and it would fit better in places rather than always on sites. There is no easy answer I suppose but a van conversation just seems easier. Thank you all again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldi Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 Afternoon folks, Ours is a six metre van conversion and the advatage is you are more likly to be able to park on streets. We often use ours for day trips, it is better for narrow lanes in the yorkshire dales and such places and are more resistant to panel damage. I do envy the space that the coachbuilts have though when on site. norm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs T Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 We started with SWB Vw's and went everywhere, all over Europe with never any difficulty, we then moved to a large coach-built and used it for 6 years for what it was intended, long stays away in luxury comfort. Disabilities caused a sale, we bought it for a purpose and when that purpose was achieved we moved on, we never missed it and do not intend to. We are now back to a LWB VW, its a go-anywhere-van, its limited in space and it suits us, all we need is a loo and somewhere to cook, washing is secondary, we are now shorter and thinner, and prefer the odd day or two away, we don't entertain clutter, its simplicity at its best, we use hotels when necessary, its wonderful ! Me and him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldi Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 Afternoon folks, Ours is a six metre van conversion and the advatage is you are more likly to be able to park on streets. We often use ours for day trips, it is better for narrow lanes in the yorkshire dales and such places and are more resistant to panel damage. I do envy the space that the coachbuilts have though when on site. norm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtisden Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 Bartonfolk - 2013-07-27 1:55 PM Yes you have a point about parking. My husband is 70 next year and we plan this to be our last van, our thinking is we can use it for days out as well as camping trips and it would fit better in places rather than always on sites. There is no easy answer I suppose but a van conversation just seems easier. Thank you all again Go for it I say. For me its also about build quality as much and size. Having dragged a tin box around for 25 years to battlefields and walking locations I took the plunge to join the Dark Side and bought a New Swift Built 6.4m long coach built. Regretted it from day one. The internal noise was frankly deafening and spoiled every trip away in trying to stop the rattles. The thing fell apart and it was impossible to stop the cooker drumming, furniture coming apart and loads of other bits falling off including the underslung water tank on a motorway around Paris. While touring around Scotland we dropped by the award winning small family company East Neuk on spec, no appointment. They threw us a set of keys to "Go test drive that" (ALONE) and we were hooked. Silence and I mean silence greeted us as we headed up towards Dundee around via Perth and back over the rough roads behind St Andrews. The build quality and attention to detail was stunning and compared with the Swift made us regret not doing our homework before buying the Swift from our local dealer. Back up is different. Its seamless and seems to be a matter of principal that their Fifer is defect free. The down side is they are in SE Scotland and I live in Kent but then after 1 year I have only had very minor faults like a broken catch and loose wire to a heater fan, that I have fixed myself as I would have with the Swift as the warranty system was a trial. A quick call to Darren and you get the advice you need or the offer of a local fitter if you should need one. Not had to so far. The layout is rear lounge and a copy of the Swift, slightly narrower but you would be hard pressed to notice in use. But the kit levels are just so much higher including Solar, Diesel water heater, 12 Volt Fridge and huge second battery power all as standard + loads of other top quality fixtures which the Swift never had. Strangely the .4m saving in length makes a lot of difference in parking but the 5 or 5.4m models would be even better. On the road they drive well and have less sway, sticking to the road well. On a trip back from the Somme a few weeks ago I was late and held over 80mph + on the motorway safely up hill and down dale,, something I would not to have done in the Swift. Lost a hub cap though. So if you do look at PVC test drive them first, as not all are as well built as the top flight models. If Wild Camping is your thing then make sure they are well specked as standard as some charge a fortune for the add ons. We have been away far more times this last 12 months to France than ever before and its the Fifer that is responsible for that. Its just so much fun. They will all be at the NEC in October and if I were you I would spend a day looking at all the brands before shelling out all that cash.. Hope that helps. Peter http://www.eastneukcampervans.co.uk/userfiles/files/fifer-touring-l.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 Mrs T - 2013-07-27 2:11 PM ...We are now back to a LWB VW, its a go-anywhere-van, its limited in space and it suits us, all we need is a loo and somewhere to cook..//.... its simplicity at its best, we use hotels when necessary, its wonderful ! This is something which is appealing to us more now... Having recently(ish) bought an old Toyota van and adapted it for use as a simple "camping van" for festivals, we're starting to realise just how little we actually need to have fun! (..and how much more chilled it is, when we're not having to moither about whether or not our heavy,front wheel drive MH will get us on/off the pitch or whether or not some overly complicated/delicate onboard electronics are going to decide to throw a wobbler that weekend etc... :-S ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 I agree with pepe 6m coachbuilt particularly one of the slim line ones will offer more comfort that a pvc and not much harder to park. Or you could do what we have and gone back to a caravan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cattwg Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 Hi Bartonfolk, I cannot compare living with a coachbuilt as opposed to a pvc as we have always had pvc’s. However I would suggest that you look at a fixed rear bed layout whilst doing your research. We find there are advantages to this type of conversion, over the more common bench/bed opposite the sliding door arrangement, some of which are: Bed always ready for use – very handy after a long day’s driving etc. – no space required to store the bedding. A spacious ‘boot’ under the bed – easily accessed via the back doors or with a bit more bending from inside the ‘van – which with some thought can be made very efficient. A half dinette which again is always available. Two forward facing and belted rear seats. The main disadvantage is that the bed is only accessible from one side – so there is the climbing over one’s spouse syndrome. ;-) We honestly do not find storage space a problem. For example we carry: a small b-b-q plus charcoal two folding tables (coffee and dining) – apart from the one supplied as standard two folding canvas chairs with solid arms plus two foot stools. a small arsenal, if that’s the correct word, of tools and other ‘useful bits’. several books – not into e-books yet. my laptop a 300w inverter sun umbrella a wind break. a medium sized ground sheet. a light weight wind break awning two 8 litre water bottles and four 2 litre drinking water bottles. And when we go to Spain for our autumn sojourn we also carry a free standing awning two large ground sheets. an inflatable canoe, with all the required safety and inflating gear. That is quite apart from the essentials!!! Cattwg :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggyd Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 After moving down from a KonTiki 610 we have just returned from a 6 week trip through France and Germany in our Auto-cruise Alto, We found it much easier to move on just putting the kettle away and locking the fridge making sure the draws and doors are latched then were off. :-D The fridge is 12 volt I was very pleased with that once I had remembered that every time the engine is switched off to press the button over the door. We have a refillable gas bottle and the dial has hardly moved! No oven just two burners a useless grill and like tracker I use it to store cakes I have a microwave the bread I store in a Lakeland Bread bag which I hang from a hook on the wardrobe (very small) door, as I said its small but adequate for the few things (jackets and trousers) that cant be folded, anything else is stored in the overhead lockers 3 for me 1 for him+he has taken over the space over the cab that the TABLE (that was too big) is now in the loft and O.H made a smaller one taking the fittings off the original and adding a tubular leg, all clip in place when not in use. We have a fixed bed that as long as we stay relatively slim ;-) is very comfortable, and the storage beneath is amazing I also have a large bucket which is my dishwasher when on a camp site with a bag of my shoes in here out of sight and easily retrieved . All it takes is a bit of thought utensil wise smaller this that and the other!! and Bobs your Uncle (lol) Parking we were pleased that we could park in a car park at Barnkasle Kues have a look around and then continue our journey to the next Stalplatz, we wouldnt have attempted to even enter the car park with the KonTiki . Yes you will miss the big shower cubicle of the Kontiki BUT using camp sites every other move and using the hand shower in the bathroom you can manage. Also the QUIET drive just like your car is much better !! your oven doesnt do a jump every time you go over a bump and no more padding the pan rest ! using tea towels on the oven door etc; is a plus. We use the front swivel seats and bench seats when watching t.v and when reading I prop myself on pillows on the bed :-D I read about two pages before I drop off to sleep. We do sit outside under the awning quite a lot when weather permits and the sliding door is a great plus when you just want to sit inside but still enjoy the surroundings. If you do decide to downsize and I found it no bother to drive either !! you will have to take everything out of your Kontiki and ONLY take what you really need :-) and you will probably keep changing things as you go on !! O.H is at the moment just fitted a S.O.G which we bought at the Expo caravans in Germany. Good luck with your decision and have a good look around before you decide which suits you best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 I'm guessing that you will have on your contract 'obey', so why ask us? you've been told what to do so just do it. :D But seriously, the size of a van will always be a compromise, a 6m van will be easier to drive and park than your Kontiki, but there will still be carparks which you can't use due to length, height or weight restrictions. We use our van a lot for days/weekends out and I'm sure you will find this very good, for longer holidays we are also happy but then we upsized from a VW, how you view the smaller living space might not be the same. Storage space is not an issue but then we have 'fixed' bed, and I guess like most similier layouts have much more than needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 We downsized last year, from a 2010 Chausson Flash 04 low profile coachbuilt (6.0m x 2.3m) to a 2012 Autocruise Accent panel van conversion (6.0m x 2.1m) and have not regretted it! We really loved our Chausson but we absolutely adore the Accent! Some info here about it: My Autocruise Accent Also another forumite considered changing to a PVC and started the below thread, and another member, ips, though about it too (he has Flash 04!) but has now gone over to the 'dark side' and is getting a caravan! :D PVC or Coachbuilt Another forumite changed to a PVC and then went back to a coachbuilt PDQ! Living with a PVC Also, you need to consider whether you'll want to use it in cooler weather: Cool camping Finally, I've quoted below how we found it to be 'captive' in our PVC for 47 days in May/June this year which I original posted on my 'holiday' thread: holiday thread Issues with van: The Truma combi heater/boiler packed up as the fan wasn't working properly so we ended up wasting nearly a day getting that fixed by the emergency call out chap who was very good; the grill door came off and fell onto the drawer fronts below so we now have 2 nice scratches on them - will see if we can get them replaced under warranty as it was a 'fault' with the door. Drawers ... kitchen type not knickers (don't mention the washing!). The under grill kitchen drawers weren't running properly and on closer inspection I found that they runners were only held into the side cabinet by four 1/2 inch screws (2 each side) which were lose and wouldn't tighten up, so as this was just after we'd had the Truma replaced and the engineer had given us some screws he'd taken out and replaced with new ones, we used these to secure the runners which has now solved the problem ... sometimes even 1/4 of an inch makes a difference! Fiat base - whilst hubby says it is great to drive (I can't get behind the flippling wheel!) he has found that it isn't quite as nippy as the Ford was (2.2 140bhp compared to 2.2 130bhp with the Fiat), the cruise doesn't work as good as the one on the Ford and doesn't hold the speed as well. Obviously the turning circle isn't as good as our Chausson was due to us now having a LWB instead of a MWB so that's taken a bit of 'learning' but it does have the advantage that we don't have to watch out for 'bum' bashing when turning (ie it doesn't swing out). BUT ... how did we get on with nearly 7 weeks in a van conversion you may ask ... brilliantly is all I can say! We didn't miss the extra width of our previous Chausson, the storage was more than adequate, the kitchen was a dream to use, especially the extra 'flap' which was put to good use. It was very light and airy, much more so than our coachbuilts have ever felt. Being able to have the large side door open really made us feel more connected with the outside, like having a patio door at home, and being able to throw open the rear doors and just chill on the bed was wonderful, in fact we had them open as much as possible as it was one of the favourite places for me and the dogs to just be able to relax there and watch the world go by - Tazzy would spend hours there just people watching! As I'd made some voile type curtains to go across the side and rear doors it meant we could have them open even when it got a bit chilly as it kept any breeze out or on a warm evening to keep the bugs at bay - lovely. When hot it was great to be able to get a through flow of air through the van, especially when it got to 37 degrees but overall it didn't seem to get any 'hotter' on warm days than a coachbuilt which was good. However, one of the things that really test how well you get on in a van conversion though, IMV, is how well you cope when the weather is inclement - all I can say is that it didn't make one jot of difference! We never felt claustrophobic but cosy, very homely and 'snug as a bug in a rug'! No danger of the sliding door being caught by the wind and blown out of your hand and the 'stop' I'd made so it could be held only partially opened worked a treat too. The only thing we never used was the shower ... instead we used one on an aire and had good strip washes instead which proved just as good as we're not big fans of showers anyway ... no you cannot call me 'smelly Melly'!!! One feature of our van that we really, really, really like are the large sliding windows on either side of the front 'lounge' area, instead of the usual lift up ones. We'd forgotten just how useful sliding windows are as we hadn't had them since we'd had the Rimor and Rapido - great to just slide open and shake the tablecloth out of, or tip the water out of the salad spinner, or chat to the 'neighbours', also we were able to travel with them partially open which kept the van lovely and cool - we prefer this to using the aircon all the time and the dogs enjoying 'sniffing' the air too! The fridge worked well but was a bit 'stressed' when it was very hot so I might look to fit a fan to aid cooling in future and hubby just 'loves' the little light in it!!! In a nutshell, we were more than happy with how our van performed and how 'easy' we found it to live with and in, no regrets about changing from a coachbuilt at all. One thing I haven't mentioned before though was cooking in the van - it was easy peasy, I found it much better than any of our previous vans, despite it only having a 2 burner hob, but the worktop extension really did get a lot of use and made a lot of difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartonfolk Posted July 28, 2013 Author Share Posted July 28, 2013 Hello every-one We will most certainly look at East Neuk as an option, many thanks for bringing them to our attention, plus thanks to all of you for your thoughts and information, it has been so informative and useful to 'pick your collective brains!' Will let you know what we decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 No brainer for us, get an IH with the fixed rear panel and "u" shaped lounge, if a car can get there, so can I, and we have EVERYTHING a coach built has, and suits our style of use extremely well, I would say however if your the type who stays for extended periods in one spot a free standing safari room may be a good idea, or stick with a CB, we motor in our motorhome rarely staying more than a couple of days in any one spot. ;-) One thing I could never stand is / was conversion noise /rattles, ours is as quiet as a mouse in that respect, and cruise at 130kph, no problem The new ones are very pricey, but ours being 10 years old the sheer quality still shines through, or go for a second hand one as we did. ;-) We have recently returned from our first France trip of this year, and noticed a growing number of PVCs why that is I've no idea, but it does show a trend as even converters who only made CBs are getting into the act now. The final thing to say is we made an absolute DISASTER in our first choice of PVC which was a Trigano Tribute,we knew after just the first outing it was not for us, it really was a chore in almost every respect, after coming form our CBs, there are conversions and conversions. see them here, where I've just seen they will be at the Malvern show in the south midlands if your anywhere near that neck of the woods. http://www.ihmotorhomes.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtisden Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Bartonfolk - 2013-07-28 11:56 PM Hello every-one We will most certainly look at East Neuk as an option, many thanks for bringing them to our attention, plus thanks to all of you for your thoughts and information, it has been so informative and useful to 'pick your collective brains!' Will let you know what we decide. If East Neuk is one of your options as its such a loyal customer brand they often get trade in's of Fifers when people upgrade to another which they advertise on this site under MH for sale. Under East Neuk. http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/Motorhomes/For-Sale Only 2 stock new on there now but give Darren a call to see what due in. Also Vantage in Leeds is a Brand that seems to cares. Much bigger company but looks well made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 The IH and it's rear end is in a class of it's own, why other converters don't follow it's example I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 rolandrat - 2013-07-29 8:46 AM The IH and it's rear end is in a class of it's own, why other converters don't follow it's example I don't know. Ask Judgemental, his van has rear doors, although a new van he uses his to double up as a builders skip he once told me. :D But I agree we love ours with the rear wrap around lounge which also make it very private of you want to have the large side door open. ;-) I do wonder what they do with all those brand new rear doors though, maybe stick them on Ebay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamw Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 On the question of van conversions developments at Autotrail sound very interesting. Sounds as though they will be expensive but they do look to be breaking new ground with a raised GRP roof, double floor technology and lately I read grade 3 insulation. Other standard features include solar panel, integrated wind out awning, fully moulded toilet shower room, drawer refrigerator, 4kw gas / 220v Truma Combi heater, full oven and external BBQ and shower points. Full details due for release in July but haven't seen anything yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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