Mel B Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 I decided to watch the Richard and Judy show tonight (no I'm not that sad and I don't usually watch it). Why watch it then? Well, I caught a trailer-ad for it saying they were going to cover 'gassing' in motorhomes and caravans in Europe so thought I'd watch it. They spoke to an English couple who had been travelling through France on their way to a Boat race qualifyer - he's the British champion. Apparently they had been travelling in a motorhome with their boat in tow and after a long drive had pulled into an 'aire' on the motorway and stopped for the night along with 10 motorhomes. They found that at some time during the night they had been apparently gassed and robbed, loosing wallets etc but not a massive amount. They then drove on some more and, after collecting some more of their team and boat parts, they again stopped for the night (not sure exactly where) and were again robbed! In total they claim to have lost £10,000 worth of goods etc as many of the parts they had for the boat were taken. As some of the items that were taken were in cupboards above the bunk beds they were sleeping in and foot prints were found actually on the bedding, they believe that their being gassed is the only reasonable explanation as to what happened as otherwise they would have woken up with the disturbance of someone climbing on the bed itself. They did say that on both occasions when they woke they all felt very tired and it lasted much longer than if they were just sleepy after a long journey. They hadn't heard about 'gas attacks' so weren't aware to be careful. It's obviously not very nice for them at all but this appears to be as close as you can get to having official confirmation that this IS happening, another chap on with them, who's name I can't remember but who is obviously in the know, said that the area from Lyon down is the main bit to be careful about and Spain especially is extremely well known for this with immigrants being the perpetrators. Apparently the Spanish Police are very well aware of this. It appears that they use a can of ether, which can be easily obtained, and they then empty this into the motorhome, caravan etc before entering the property, it is claimed that they are using children to carry out the robberies as if they are caught they cannot be charged and they are under-aged! Even if they get into the motorhome etc without using ether they only have to spray it near you for a few seconds to ensure that you stay asleep/unconscious. The chap also warned that the gas attacks are also being carried out on holiday homes as well and not to leave windows etc open. When I get a minute I'll have another shuftie at the piece (I recorded it just in case I got called away) so if anyone wants any more info let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 yes please Mel , Where does one buy these Gas alarms from ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted August 8, 2006 Author Share Posted August 8, 2006 Forgot to say, the gas is apparently sprayed in the van through fridge etc vents so if you do get a gas alarm think where you would spray the stuff in ... that's where you want the gas alarm fitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 MelI didn't see the trailer or the show. C4's website is only interested in the little piggies, the McCartneys and some other bit of meaningless drivel that was on the programme. However, it seems you cop £3,000 for appearing with your story.I'm still a sceptic on these attacks, as I still don't understand how people are anaesthetised with unstable, unpredictable, highly flammable, non- medical grade ethers, but apparently no one has been killed in the attampt. The unkind side of me, however, says £10,000 is a lot of boat parts to have been nicked and spirited away from under their and the other team member's noses. Were they all "gassed"? Did they invent it for an insurance claim, to finance new boat parts? (Naughty me, how could I?) Alarm salesmen on holiday drumming up trade with lurid storys? I dunno, but I'd certainly be interested to find out what, exactly, really is going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greynomad Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 May I suggest that any member of this excellent forum also visits the Motorhometoday internet forum, where an extensive and long running Thread Subject: GAS ALARMS, also discusses this item from the Richard & Judy Show. There is an assersion made by 'Georgetelford' and supported by others, that the phenomenon of Ether Gas attack within the confined area of a motorhome is 'URBAN MYTH', without any foundation - it just has not happened!! This is backed up by the absolute certainty (in George's opinion) that had ether or, any other anaesthetic been administered - the motorhome occupants would not be in a studio discussing this possibility - THEY WOULD BE DEAD. The quantity of anaesthetic has to be so precisely measured, that even within an operating theatre, they very occasionally kill patients. Please don't take issue with me personally, just read the Thread, and form your own opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Madge Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 [QUOTE]Brian Kirby - 2006-08-08 9:54 PM MelI didn't see the trailer or the show. C4's website is only interested in the little piggies, the McCartneys and some other bit of meaningless drivel that was on the programme. However, it seems you cop £3,000 for appearing with your story.I'm still a sceptic on these attacks, as I still don't understand how people are anaesthetised with unstable, unpredictable, highly flammable, non- medical grade ethers, but apparently no one has been killed in the attampt. The unkind side of me, however, says £10,000 is a lot of boat parts to have been nicked and spirited away from under their and the other team member's noses. Were they all "gassed"? Did they invent it for an insurance claim, to finance new boat parts? (Naughty me, how could I?) Alarm salesmen on holiday drumming up trade with lurid storys? I dunno, but I'd certainly be interested to find out what, exactly, really is going on. [/QUOTE] Brian, I think they call them urban myths and cock and bull stories. I don't think they were gassed most likely "Nissed as a Pewt". Regards Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olley Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 For anybody who can't be bothered to read the post on MHT, try spraying ether onto a naked flame, like the one that's in the back of your fridge. (lol) just make sure your not to close. (lol) olley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 I thought that the correct installation of fridges meant that the air vents were completely sealed off from the inside of the van? However, I once had a compass drifter that had a gale blowing in through a slight gap between the top of the fridge and the bottom of the worktop - no deflector plate fitted at all. Regards, david Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnP Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 The gas is alleged to have been sprayed in through the fridge vents. On most vans these are sealed to the back of the fridge to aid air flow over the fridge elements. I can see that no way would the necessary quantity of gas get through to the interior. If the fridge vent was used it would probably set fire to the van because most of these gases are inflammable. Until someone is caught in the act I am inclined to agree with Brian. Perhaps they left the window or door open after a long journey and an evening on the sauce. After writing the above I contacted my insurance company and they confirmed that gas attacks are happening and they do not recommend wild camping or motorway aires. They could not confirm anyone being caught in the act. So now you have to draw your own conclusions and take extra care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bognormike Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 the programme was just a "daily mail" scare story with no evidence of gassing provided either by the victims or the so called expert. They were broken into & robbed. Full stop. See http://www.motorhomefacts.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=17491 There are numerous other topics on MHF and in the old MMM forum on the subject of "gas attacks" I'm surprised channel 4 didn't have adverts for gas alarms in the ad break..... *-) the moral is don't park up on the service areas - go off the autoroute & find an aire or village to park up in, or a camp site. It's cheaper than buying a narcotic gas alarm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsandywhite Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 8-) Myth and Legend springs to mind. Insurance claims also springs to mind. We ALWAYS park in Service station areas, Aires or wherever the fancy takes us? If we feel uncomfortable? We move somewhere else. The only gas attacks we have suffered have been from Sandy. (lol) (lol) :-S When we first went Full-Timing. We met 2 couples who explained they had been gassed and robbed. Both lost Latops and Money. No comment. It's no wonder it costs so much to insure a Motorhome. *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 [QUOTE]JohnP - 2006-08-09 9:24 AM The gas is alleged to have been sprayed in through the fridge vents. On most vans these are sealed to the back of the fridge to aid air flow over the fridge elements. I can see that no way would the necessary quantity of gas get through to the interior. If the fridge vent was used it would probably set fire to the van because most of these gases are inflammable. Until someone is caught in the act I am inclined to agree with Brian. Perhaps they left the window or door open after a long journey and an evening on the sauce. After writing the above I contacted my insurance company and they confirmed that gas attacks are happening and they do not recommend wild camping or motorway aires. They could not confirm anyone being caught in the act. So now you have to draw your own conclusions and take extra care.[/QUOTE] However, John, you are, unfortunately a bit optimistic about how well fridges are, in fact sealed, by converters. Many, it seems do a less than correct job!Having said that, most do shake a stick at it, and it is very difficult to see how an ether based product could be injected via these vents in sufficient quantity to knock out the 'van's occupants.Another thing puzzles me. Since there appear to be no such attacks on camp sites, I assume all those claiming these attacks have had their fridges running on gas? The fridge does cycle gas on and off, but on a motorway type aire the background noise level, I would have thought, would drown the noise from the fridge gas jet. Under these circumstances, the perpetrators surely can't tell whether the gas is lit, or not. If they just squite ether, in sufficient quantity to knock out the occupants, into a fridge vent that has been properly sealed, or even partially sealed, the ether, which is heavier than air, will sink to where the flame is. The result should be quite interesting! Why then, aren't there numerous reports of people's fridge vents mysteriously catching fire overnight? Can a bunch of nomadic hoodlums really be that clinically precise that they only ever succeed in just knocking out the occupants, never being spotted, never killing anyone and never setting fire to 'vans, fridge vents etc? This alone seems to be a co-incidence quite as remarkable as the fact that the "victims" all, apparently, survive to tell the tale, but only after they've safely returned home! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bognormike Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 you're getting there, Brian :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest starspirit Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 I wonder where people site their gas attack alarms? If all narcotic gases are heavier than air then surely on a floor level locker side, or on the van wall near the bed at pillow height? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Chapman Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Having set out to prove that the gas attacks are a Myth/Urban Legend/Fraud, I spoke to several Insurance Companies including the company that insure my motor caravan. "We have had between 10 and 20 genuine claims per annum and the attacks have been mainly in roadside stopovers and service areas but there have been a small number in municipal and commercial sites. All these claims have been for incidents in France and Spain" make of that what you will but if you doubt that this information is true, do what I did and check with your insurers. Despite this I am not going to shell out near £100 for an alarm but have fitted deadbolts (Well Dave Newell did, great job) to all the doors. I still have reservations about whether Ether Gas is being used after a discussion with a hospital anaethetist. Regards, Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Hi all, (thanks for the vote of confidence Mike). Gas attacks, do they really happen? Well with the exception of the type John referred to from his better half Sandy, I doubt it very much. I can't say categorically that all these reports aren't true but nobody has yet produced hard proof through medical tests that they were gassed. The suggestion that a can of "easy start" can be squirted through window seals to knock out the occupants, or ensure they don't wake up is, IMHO ludicrous in the extreme. The main narcotic element of "Easy start" is Ether which is a highly volatile substance. It is used in "easy start" for exactly that reason, it is so volatile that it will spontaneously ignite in an atmosphere with a raised temperature. The temperature increase doesn't have to be that high either and the tiniest spark will ignite it! A little research has revealed that a variety of gases with narcotic effects are regularly used as propellants in aerosol cans though, including a variety of ethers and even nitrous oxide! Is it possible to silently break and enter a motorhome without disturbing the sleeping occupants? I reckon it probably is, especially if they've had a long journey and are tired, maybe had a glass of vino with their meal. Once inside the 'van could a burglar rifle through all your belongings without disturbing you? Well if you were very tired and "out for the count" I reckon a quick squirt from an aerosol over your face might well deepen your slumbers without killing you. I've spoken to a few people over the years who have been burgled while they slept in their 'van and the first thing they knew about it was waking in a draught because burglar bill left the door open! What is really needed is for anybody who is unfortunate enough to be burgled while sleeping and beleives they were gassed to go directly to hospital and have an examination done to confirm their suspicions. I do find it curious that nobody who has a gas alarm has reported being gassed or the alarm going off and waking them up. How would the burglars know you had an alarm and therefore not attack your 'van? If you woke up to find a burlar rifling through your posessions what would you do? Have a go and risk being stabbed perhaps? Or just pretend to be asleep and wait till they go away? Or would you make lots of noise and hope they leave you alone and run away? Personally I would make as much noise as possible (mind you the dog would probably have bits of burglar in his mouth by that point but not everyone has a dog). I believe most nocturnal burglars would flee pretty damned quick. If they were prepared to mug/knife/assault you they wouldn't be very bothered whether you were awake or asleep would they? They'd club you down and take what they wanted, or smash a window as you struggle through traffic. I've only met one person who claimed to have been gassed but his story didn't make any sense to me. He had a 34 foot ARV with separate rear bedroom, door shut and a Rottweiller asleep in the living area. He claimed the thieves squirted gas in through the accomodation door seal into the living area. I find this very unlikely to be true as to squirt enough gas in through this door to ensure the occupants of a rear bedroom with closed door stayed unconsious the dog would be history, which he clearly wasn't as he sat on my foot. They would also need an industrial sized cylinder of gas which is A/ difficult to get hold of and B/ difficult to transport. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Dwight Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Re a previous thred on Gas attacks, Someone said that they possible put a small tube ie WD 40 type between the door and seals.. Well I tried for around half an hour this morning and did not succeed. The only place I could get the tube in was a window between seals and that was only on the top edge, depending on the height of the person and height of window it could prove very difficult, unless of course these people carry step ladders and all the right equipment to measure the amount of gas or what ever they use. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest starspirit Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 This is getting either interesting or ridiculous according to your point of view. I reckon interesting. Someone must know someone who has suffered this kind of attack and would be willing to tell us eager readers first hand all they know? Take away the impossible and what remains, however improbable, must contain the answer. So if we keep digging we might just get enough insight to convince the doubters that it does occur, or the believers that it does not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Hi Starspirit, As I said, the problem is that none (that I've ever heard of at least) of these claimed victims of gas attacks has ever had it proven by medical examination. Until that happens it will remain an urban myth in my book even though I accept it could be possible. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted August 9, 2006 Author Share Posted August 9, 2006 I haven't had a chance to watch the programme again yet but I suspect that there is some truth in it. My theory is that they silently break in the van, then once in they spray some gas over the already sleeping occupants, therefore they don't have to knock them out, just keep them asleep, they then rob them and make good their escape. As for the £10,000 worth of items they have allegedly had taken, some of it was apparently expensive specialist boat gear, as well as personal items such as wallets, cameras etc. I don't think it was just an insurance scam as it nearly meant he couldn't compete in the qualifying round for the boat race. Seeing as he's the reigning British champion that would be extremely risky. I don't doubt that gassing takes place, what the actual gas is and how it is done in reality I don't know but where they were parked is the main factor in all of this that I can see. My advise would be - don't use motorway aires for overnight stops, if you must stop en route make sure you use a campsite or an aire which is well away from the motorways/quick getaway areas. If you have an alarm on your van use it on a night at least that way if you are broken into even if you are not conscious your neighbours probably would be and hopefully they robbers will scarper!!! Just be sensible where you stop basically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Bell Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Realisticly, if gas attacks are happening as long as motorhomes are made of GRP nobody is going to be able to prevent somebody from squirting in gas from an aerosol by sealing everything up. All they need to do is quietly drill a small hole through the bodywork. I therefore think that Mikes deadlocks idea is probably the best. The idea being that the only way in would be by extreme force. This would be noisy, so as long as you park up near other civilisation, then most potential thieves would be put off. It might not stop them gassing you, but when you woke up all your belongings would be intact. Unfortunately, in the event of emergency services needing access you may delay entry. I wouldn't mind details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest starspirit Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 I'm not sure the aggro of fitting deadlocks is neccessary? Maybe all you need is a turnbuckle to prevent the cab door locking button from rising when a wire is applied down the door panel or a duplicate key used? This would also be highly visible through the window, and could even be backed up by another similar device on the door to prevent the door opening. These were discussed on another thread and are available from Screwfix. All cheap and easily fixed and lockable or not as you wish - but they look locked even when they are not. I've just been quite easily able to get a narrow plastic tube (taped to a wire coathanger and bent as needed) up between the caravan window seals. Whether or not sufficient volume of gas could be injected thus is another matter. However lots of gas could quickly be injected via the wide cab heater intake on the bonnet (unless you close it off at night?), or up via the ventilation holes underfloor (unless you block 'em). Anyone laying under the van squirting gas at night might well go un-noticed? Again if most of these attacks occur on motorway type aires it is likely that at least some of the vans have their fridges on gas and unless a non volatile gas were used there would have been at least one serious fire by now. Has anyone heard of a van catching fire at night unexpectedly on a motorway aire? Does anyone know of anyone ever having had a gas attack alarm sound off at night (other than by natural occupant emmisions) How about the idea of socialising with other motor homers and being caught by a spiked drink - hot or cold? Could there be a team of motor caravan users who can easily hide amongst the other vans? Or is that just too daft an idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 I know let's all meet up and have a GAS attack come blow your brains out drunk weekend ...We can all try to get into each others ..........Then we can get Brian to write up a report for MMM on a four tenners for a break in weekend............ok Walter...........Jack ? (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted August 10, 2006 Author Share Posted August 10, 2006 More info on the Richard and Judy piece if you want it. The 2 people concerned were Steve Cook and Emma Deakon, he's the British Powerboat Champion. The other chap on the show was Mike Casolet a journalist who's been doing research into this and has had a lot of contact with the Spanish Police especially who have confirmed to him that it is gangs of Albanians doing the dirty deed. It is happening in apartments and villas as well as motorhomes. The couple and their 2 technicians/mechanics lost wallets, phones, cameras, a rolex watch as well as the specialist boat parts - some spark plugs had been flown in to Barcelona airport specially! The first incident occured around 50km to the north of Montpellier, they had pulled of the N9 into a service station/aire - they'd beent travelling for a long time and in order not to waste time stopped at the most convenient location they could for the night. They didn't say exactly where they were for the second attack the following night but it must've been somewhere past Barcelona as the spark plugs had been nicked in this incident. The journalist chap had been advised by the Spanish police that they believe the ether-type gas is sprayed into the underfloor vents and it then rises up the van and out through the roof vents as they have continuous ventilation, that could explain why they can enter the van and not be knocked out themselves as by the time they get in the gas has gone. DO NOT be tempted to block any off these vents, they are there for safety - if you block them off you then run the risk of gassing yourself! Now before some start knocking the fact that it is a journalist who's reporting some of this (and no, I don't believe everything journalists as a group say), and making more suggestions about an insurance scam, instead why not think about the matter in terms of ... "if it is true, what should I do to avoid being a victim?". My advice, for what it's worth: - don't drive so long that you are too tired to find somewhere safe to sleep - be sensible where you stop, if it looks a bit iffy, move on, no matter how many other vans are there, safety in numbers isn't always the case - don't drink too much (preferably not at all), that way if anything does happen the worst is that you'll be sleepy but not further incapacitated by alcohol - lock all doors, windows and vents, ensure that you have your wallet, keys, phones, passports etc safely hidden out of sight (not under the pillow or mattress!) - close all blinds/curtains - don't let them see into the van at all that way they won't know exactly where you are sleeping or how many of you there are - if you have a vehicle alarm then use it, even if you are unfortunate enough to be 'gassed' the sound of the alarm going off would certainly cause others in vans around you to stir - make sure you have copies of important documents safely hidden away just in case the originals go missing, along with a list of contact numbers such as Police, insurance etc (hopefully you won't need them) - if you are still worried, stay on official campsites well away from the main roads, just because you are on a site doesn't mean the s*ds can't do gassing there If anyone can think of anything else to add please do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsandywhite Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 B-) To be really really safe? Stay at home. Sell the Motorhome. Buy special Security for the home devices with the proceeds. Lock all your doors and windows and last but not least? When you wake up of a morning. Just think of the life you have missed. IMH&HO. (lol) (lol) (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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