alan47575 Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Good morning all i am in the design stage of a new motorhome, built with the disabled and wheelchair users in mind and am looking for some input on what is classed as essential kit for such a motorhome and what other features people like or dislike about current motorhomes on the market. all information and questions gratefully received. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 I can't help but wonder, do you have any motor caravanning experience of your own to draw upon? Personally, my pet dislikes include - Huge skylight roof windows that replace the overcab storage area in so many vans and to me just seem like a classic case of style before substance? Water tanks that hang down well below the chassis and are in danger of impact on rough ground because the converter is too tight to use properly shaped tanks. Lightweight construction used as an excuse for flimsy and rattle prone interiors. Give me a while and I'll think of a few more! For disabled use I would imagine that built in ramps or wheelchair lift would be good, but no doubt those with disabled family members would be better able to assist with interior layout? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan47575 Posted August 8, 2013 Author Share Posted August 8, 2013 thanks for your reply tracker, i had a vw t2 for 6 years but an expanding family meant it had to go but i miss having the freedom to just go whenever the mood takes us. i havent seen any motorhomes with a ramp but have seen plenty of them with lifts however i work in the bus and coach industry and have seen how unreliable lifts are when they are used everyday let along only being used once in a while. have read a lot of reviews and rattly interiors does seem to be a huge bugbear for many of them, am quite old school in the fact that im a firm beleiver in things should be built to last, this might be overengineering but id rather that than be repairing or replacing things all the time due to unsuitable materials/fixings best regards alan clegg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Cheers Alan. I admire your optimism but you might also be forced down the road of lightweight and flimsy on both cost and weight limitation grounds as the payload on modern vans is all too often inadequate - oh yes another of my gripes - poor payload! One of the complaints so often leveled at designers is that it is obvious that the designers never use the van they design themselves or they would perhaps design it differently with at least the glaringly obvious 'room for improvement' features improved! With great respect there is a world of difference between a VWT2 and a modern motorhome, but so much will depend what sort of base vehicle you opt for - panel van, box van, chassis cab, artic! Can I ask - is this a one off for personal use project or are you intending to market your conversions - as the way you construct it - and the cost - could need to be very different from your own personal use if you were selling it/them as a 'proper' converter. It's a minefield! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan47575 Posted August 8, 2013 Author Share Posted August 8, 2013 i have a base vehicle in mind and being handy with a set of spanners and having built an interior before etc then am looking to do the majority of the work myself which will hopefully keep costs down. at the moment its a project for me but if its successfull then i think that there could be an oppurtunity for it to become a decent business proposal. yeah i can definately agree with you on modern motorhomes being a world away from a vw. i had a 2 ring hob and a single cupboard, no leisure battery and just one interior light lol. so am expecting a much more involved build this time around. yeah a minefield is a good description for it hence why am looking for as much information as possible before i start the physical build cheers alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Alan, have you considered hiring a motorhome for a few days, perhaps as close in layout as you envisage your proposed build to be? I know it's hideously expensive - but so are mistakes in building! Another option is to perhaps visit a show or two to look at layouts and chat to converters and customers. There are sometimes disabled conversion or adaptations at shows, although again it is not a topic with which I am familiar. Similarly a wander around the disabled camping and parking areas might well yield people with experience happy to chat and tell you what works and what does not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Collings Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 You ought to look at the current situation over Type Approval and the latest version of SVA (single vehicle approval) I am no longer up to date but know that this area has become stricter in the last few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan47575 Posted August 8, 2013 Author Share Posted August 8, 2013 yeah we are headed for a couple of shows in the coming weeks/months to have a good look around and chat with manufacturers and see what things are available especially regarding disabled access and facilities. as far as ive found there arent any vehicles with a layout similar layout as its going to be quite unique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan47575 Posted August 8, 2013 Author Share Posted August 8, 2013 hi george many thanks for your reply, i shall have a look into that. best regards alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 alan47575 - 2013-08-08 10:03 AM Good morning all i am in the design stage of a new motorhome, built with the disabled and wheelchair users in mind and am looking for some input on what is classed as essential kit for such a motorhome and what other features people like or dislike about current motorhomes on the market. all information and questions gratefully received. Inadequate payloads. IMO, the difference between MIRO and MAM, even for two people, needs to be as near 500kg as possible. The tendency to quote payload with only 20 litres of water on board is also unhelpful, ditto quoting fuel and gas reservoirs at only 90% full. I know it meets the EN1646-2 requirement, but how is anyone supposed to know when a gas cylinder is 90% full? I'd also add that when a gas locker can take two 13kg (or whatever size) cylinders, the MIRO should include the weight of two, full, 13kg steel cylinders. Absence of a full sized spare wheel is another bugbear. No one was ever caught out by finding they have more payload than they were led to believe when buying, any number have found the opposite highly inconvenient in use, and expensive to rectify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Give this site a look, the self build motor caravaners club. http://sbmcc.co.uk/forum/ I think this Brit we saw in France had both the payload, and wheelchair access sorted. ;-) Might have been a bit cramped inside though :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowie Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 alan47575 - 2013-08-08 10:03 AM Good morning all i am in the design stage of a new motorhome, built with the disabled and wheelchair users in mind and am looking for some input on what is classed as essential kit for such a motorhome and what other features people like or dislike about current motorhomes on the market. . Hi Alan, taking the two main issues raised by yourself and others; payload and ramp/lift + wheelchair, I think you have a starting point. Deciding what special equipment you need to incorporate, weighing it and measuring it will give you the basis of your design. Are you considering auto transmission, maybe replating to gain payload? What's left of the payload will determine the rest of your spec, and probably steer you towards a specific van to convert. Deciding how sophisticated you want your plumbing and heating systems to be will also chip away at your payload. Good luck, sounds like a challenge, regards alan b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppy Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 Brian Kirby - 2013-08-08 2:45 PM alan47575 - 2013-08-08 10:03 AM Good morning all i am in the design stage of a new motorhome, built with the disabled and wheelchair users in mind and am looking for some input on what is classed as essential kit for such a motorhome and what other features people like or dislike about current motorhomes on the market. all information and questions gratefully received. Inadequate payloads. IMO, the difference between MIRO and MAM, even for two people, needs to be as near 500kg as possible. The tendency to quote payload with only 20 litres of water on board is also unhelpful, ditto quoting fuel and gas reservoirs at only 90% full. I know it meets the EN1646-2 requirement, but how is anyone supposed to know when a gas cylinder is 90% full? I'd also add that when a gas locker can take two 13kg (or whatever size) cylinders, the MIRO should include the weight of two, full, 13kg steel cylinders. Absence of a full sized spare wheel is another bugbear. No one was ever caught out by finding they have more payload than they were led to believe when buying, any number have found the opposite highly inconvenient in use, and expensive to rectify. With you all the way there Brian.Just seen a six berth written up in CC mag witha payload of around 475 kgs.Billed as a luxury 2 berth for grandparents with room to take the family away occasionally.So 4 adults 2 children one who may be a teenager,and all the equipment they will want to take.! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 I'm willing to bet that if you ask the very next person you come across with their M/home, what is their payload they will not have a clue what your talking about., come to think about it, I haven't got a clue either. ;-) I also guarantee the average salesman wouldn't have a clue either, one at a very large dealership in the midlands told me once that if my leisure batteries go flat, to just run the engine for half an hour and they would be fine again. :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 alan47575 - 2013-08-08 10:03 AM Good morning all i am in the design stage of a new motorhome, built with the disabled and wheelchair users in mind and am looking for some input on what is classed as essential kit for such a motorhome and what other features people like or dislike about current motorhomes on the market. all information and questions gratefully received. in my fairly extensive experience people with different disabilities will require different facilities so its almost impossible to design a one size fits all motorhome for the disabled. Payload is a major factor but also bear in mind that if the driver is the disabled party then the disability in question may or may not restrict them to 3500kgs max which will make it very difficult to acchieve a realistic payload if you need to include a hydraulic lift for example. add to that the fact that many disabled owners will use a mobility scooter which in itself is quite often a pretty hefty beast and it becomes increasingly difficult to meet the target. what sort of motorhome are you designing, coachbuilt, panel van conversion or what. d. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 1footinthegrave - 2013-08-09 8:58 AM I'm willing to bet that if you ask the very next person you come across with their M/home, what is their payload they will not have a clue what your talking about., come to think about it, I haven't got a clue either. ;-) I also guarantee the average salesman wouldn't have a clue either, one at a very large dealership in the midlands told me once that if my leisure batteries go flat, to just run the engine for half an hour and they would be fine again. :-S even when fully loaded and with full gas and water we have around 900-1000kgs spare payload but then our van would not suit a lot of motorhomers and at 4200kgs and 7 metres length will be too big for many. ;-) d. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 Dave Newell - 2013-08-09 9:03 AM 1footinthegrave - 2013-08-09 8:58 AM I'm willing to bet that if you ask the very next person you come across with their M/home, what is their payload they will not have a clue what your talking about., come to think about it, I haven't got a clue either. ;-) I also guarantee the average salesman wouldn't have a clue either, one at a very large dealership in the midlands told me once that if my leisure batteries go flat, to just run the engine for half an hour and they would be fine again. :-S even when fully loaded and with full gas and water we have around 900-1000kgs spare payload but then our van would not suit a lot of motorhomers and at 4200kgs and 7 metres length will be too big for many. ;-) d. Your at the sharp edge, how many of your customers do you think have a clue about payloads ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 1footinthegrave - 2013-08-09 9:05 AM Your at the sharp edge, how many of your customers do you think have a clue about payloads ? Probably most of them by the time they leave Dave's premises! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan47575 Posted August 9, 2013 Author Share Posted August 9, 2013 thank you for all the replies am currently at work will ahve a read through tomorrow, many thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 alan47575 - 2013-08-08 10:03 AM Good morning all i am in the design stage of a new motorhome, built with the disabled and wheelchair users in mind and am looking for some input on what is classed as essential kit for such a motorhome and what other features people like or dislike about current motorhomes on the market. all information and questions gratefully received. Hi Alan We have got such a vehicle. Adria Sport S572SL - large garage will take electric wheelchair ( although I remove the batteries to reduce the overall weight) with Fiamma Ramps for loading it. Her manual wheelchair fits in the opposite side of the garage. We also have a Autochair Milford Person Lift (to lift my wife from her wheelchair up to the Motorhome passenger seat) A good contact for interior modifications is Jeff Bull @ Coachbuilt GB (Nuneaton) they widened the toilet/shower door in our previous Autocruise Sportstar (smaller garage) to give better access & they have converted many other Motorhomes including installing wide entrance doors, overhead hoists, rear or side lifts, etc,.. A look at their website should give you an indication of their capabilities. We were very pleased with their workmanship. Another company is Autovan,(Wimborne) but I have no experience of their work. If you wish to locate the wheelchair within the motorhome habitation area Unwins (Glasgow?) do various wheelchair retaining systems. However much will depend on the disabled persons requirements which can vary tremendously for each individual. Good luck with your project, but IMHO as a commercial venture it would be very difficult with current legislation, type approval & the vast variety of requirements. Edit - in the longer term a visit to both the Mobility Roadshow (usually June) & Naidex (usually July) would familiarise you with more of the Disability Equipment available & Coachbuilt have exhibited their Swift Escape conversion at Mobility Roadshow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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