kelly58 Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 Last week parked in front of me was a Belgium reg Motorhome with short mirror arms . I had a word with the owner and he informed me that now it is prohibited for new vehicles in Belgium to have mirrors that protrude well beyond the width of the vehicle , because of the risk of striking pedestrians. He said it made no difference to his rear view and the motorhome sides protruded outside the cab line the same as my Auto-Trail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 To be fair that is an exceptionally narrow coachbuilt, but I do agree that many coachbuilts have mirror extensions that are needlessly wide, and when I said so earlier this year on another thread I was shouted down by those who apparently know better that I! The only possible advantage of a wider mirror is that by changing the viewing angle it might give one a better view of the blind spot behind the van - but that comes at the expense of creating an even bigger overtaking blind spot a few feet out from the side of the van. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 This is always going to be a thorny issue... The body of the vehicle does not seem to be more than an inch wider than the cab so in the case of this vehicle the short mirror arms seem to be ok but if the body was any wider, most of the rear view would be of the front corner of it and very little of the actual side of the vehicle. It is vital for spacial awareness that a small part of the vehicle side is visible along with a decent width of view beyond the vehicle so as to spot other road users! Many commercial vehicle bodies and those of wider coachbuilt motorhomes would be positively dangerous without extended arms and I seriously doubt that any Belgian rules would hold water if the vehicle was not safe to be driven with inadequate rear vision. The more likely truth is that the owner was brainwashed by a clueless or deceitful dealer that would not own up to the true facts; The manufacturer of the conversion ordered a load of chassis with no consideration for their eventual use. They can be ordered with whatever length of mirror arm desired but are expensive to swap afterwards. They just sent it out like that, and were lucky that it seems fine in use as it is. The standard mirror arm length is fine for panel vans and narrow bodies. The 2250 and 2350 mirror arms are for wider bodies and are essential safety items. No Belgian or other European government has any business interfering with that. I doubt if they did. PS; following Rich's post... The upper mirror lens is designed for you to position the vehicle safely on the road. The lower mirror is a wide angle unit that should give you a wider view of other road users and pedestrians. Trucks (throughout the EU) have to have a wide angle lens on the nearside plus a kerb mirror and a mirror above the windscreen to see the area immediately in front of the vehicle. Most now have a total of 6 mirrors, yet strangely no reversing camera for the biggest blind spot of them all! If the eurocretins had any sense at all they would have insisted on that by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 Well yes and no Nick. Admittedly I have not driven quite the wide range of vehicles that you do but I have driven quite a few box vans and trucks as well as motorhomes around the narrow roads and the villages of Devon and Cornwall and as far as I am concerned all you need is a clear line of sight vision down the entire length of each side of your vehicle to be able to manoeuvre it safely and be able see what is behind you and potentially overtaking. To do this the last inch of the outer edge of the mirror only needs to be a few inches out from the body and at that mirror angle you have a better chance of seeing what is outside of you through the inside inch of the glass tha you do with a mirror that is further out and angled inwards. I can see no real advantage in being able to see the decals along the side of the van at the expense of outer lane vision. Perhaps I am just old fashioned then as I would have thought that the safety 'experts' who decide these things would have much more practical experience than my own - or maybe not? PS Interesting interpretation of the two part mirror Nick. I always thought that the top part was for driving, turning, reversing and seeing what was around you and the bottom part always seemed more suited for showing the lower part of the van that you only need to see when passing, turning and reversing in tight spaces and round corners? I do agree on reversing cameras of course they are so inexpensive now that every vehicle that has no internal rear view mirror should have to have one fitted, and it should be on at all times so that you can always see what is behind the vehicle in the blind spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly58 Posted September 3, 2013 Author Share Posted September 3, 2013 The body is as wide as a standard coachbuilt ,but not shown in previous photo , because of the angle the photo was taken if you note in this other photo you can see the width of the body which is well outside the line of the cab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graham Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 I saw a Swift Sundance (new) with short arm mirrors on a site in Devon about 4 weeks ago. I never saw the owner so couldn't establish whether it was an OE fit or a mod. We are 'lucky' enough to live in North Devon and we have some very narrow A roads with high hedges at the road edge. With our Autocruise Starfire even with the nearside mirror brushing the hedge the offside one is close to or just over the white line. Ok for a car coming the other way but a white van, bus, 4x4 etc a mirror clash is easily achieved. The Starfire body is only just wider than the cab and I considered having short arm mirrors retrofitted but the costs, possible insurance issues, and modifying a type approved vehicle caused a hesitation and in the end we settled for Mirrorguards, though I do still keep eyeing the mirrors on panel vans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 Our current panel van mirrors on very short arms give better all round rearwards vision than the ultra wide extended mirrors on our previous wide bodied Autotrail. I don't get a good view of the decals on the sides anymore but the view of the road either side is better. I think the standard panel van mirror arms might well prove to be a tad short for a wider bodied coachbuilt unless they make an in between size? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 kelly58 - 2013-09-03 4:53 PM Last week parked in front of me was a Belgium reg Motorhome with short mirror arms . I had a word with the owner and he informed me that now it is prohibited for new vehicles in Belgium to have mirrors that protrude well beyond the width of the vehicle , because of the risk of striking pedestrians. He said it made no difference to his rear view and the motorhome sides protruded outside the cab line the same as my Auto-Trail. C&U regs state. exterior mirrors less than 2 metres from ground shall not project more than 20 centimetres beyond the overall width of the vehicle (or the trailer if wider), This is not a new reg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundowner Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 My Adria Compact is 2.14 metres wide, and the standard "short armed" mirrors are just perfect for this van. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 Kelly, are you still at the same site? Could you sit in the van and give us a first hand appraisal of a wide van with short arm mirrors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly58 Posted September 4, 2013 Author Share Posted September 4, 2013 bolero boy - 2013-09-04 8:12 AMKelly, are you still at the same site? Could you sit in the van and give us a first hand appraisal of a wide van with short arm mirrors?No sorry came back before last weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.