Germany and credit cards

[Syd]

In the Daily Mail today there is a good explanation why our credit cards are frequently refused in Germany

[Mel B]

.... perhaps you would like to share with us the reason as not all of us read the paper! :-D

[Guest pelmetman]

Germany only gives credit too PIGS......................... (lol) (lol)

[Guest JudgeMental]

Jesus Christ was only known to loose his temper on one occasion that i know, and that when he threw the money lenders out of the temple..We have not learnt anything from that, but other Europeans have seen the danger that credit inflicts on a society and make effort to control it..but here? ...we need our collective heads examined! Now the UK awash with pay day loan company's, gambling advertised everywhere (thanks to last labour giverment). How to run a society eh?*-)

[Bulletguy]

JudgeMental - 2013-09-13 9:02 AM

 

Jesus Christ was only known to loose his temper on one occasion that i know, and that when he threw the money lenders out of the temple..We have not learnt anything from that, but other Europeans have seen the danger that credit inflicts on a society and make effort to control it..but here? ...we need our collective heads examined! Now the UK awash with pay day loan company's, gambling advertised everywhere (thanks to last labour giverment). How to run a society eh?*-)

 

Eddie

 

To a point I agree with your view apart from one thing. "Control" should be every individuals personal responsibility........not a matter for the State. If people get themselves into debt through buying expensive cars or, dare I mention it on here......motorhomes etc on finance, then it's nobody elses fault but their own. If employed they might think they can afford those repayments......but how secure is that job?

 

I've used a credit card for the past thirty plus years and never had a problem. The reason is simple. I never go anywhere near the limit and each month is paid off in full. CC users who do neither are either plain stupid or simply thick and unfortunately that leads to the flourishing existence of Pay Day loan companies. I don't like the things but as long as there are people hell bent on 'impressing the neighbours', then they will continue to flourish.

 

I'm no financial wizzard. Indeed I will openly admit to being far from 'clever with figures' but was taught an early lesson as a young lad salivating over the sight of some pricey toy in a shop. He said to me....."like that do you lad? Well stick your hand in your pocket and see if you have the money to buy it.. If you haven't got the money then you can't buy it".

 

Hard yes and some may even see it as almost cruel......but I never forgot those words.

 

When I bought my campervan it was paid for in full......cash, just as every single damn car i've ever owned. But 'impressing the neighbours' has never been my thing anyway and the most i've ever paid for a car was just three grand.

 

 

 

 

[Retread24800]

Mel B - 2013-09-13 12:00 AM.... perhaps you would like to share with us the reason as not all of us read the paper! :-D

If Sid cannot then Retread to the rescue!!!!   http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-2416828/I-stuck-375-garage-rejected-card.html

 

[vindiboy]

Bulletguy - 2013-09-14 1:55 PM

JudgeMental - 2013-09-13 9:02 AMJesus Christ was only known to loose his temper on one occasion that i know, and that when he threw the money lenders out of the temple..We have not learnt anything from that, but other Europeans have seen the danger that credit inflicts on a society and make effort to control it..but here? ...we need our collective heads examined! Now the UK awash with pay day loan company's, gambling advertised everywhere (thanks to last labour giverment). How to run a society eh?*-)

EddieTo a point I agree with your view apart from one thing. "Control" should be every individuals personal responsibility........not a matter for the State. If people get themselves into debt through buying expensive cars or, dare I mention it on here......motorhomes etc on finance, then it's nobody elses fault but their own. If employed they might think they can afford those repayments......but how secure is that job?I've used a credit card for the past thirty plus years and never had a problem. The reason is simple. I never go anywhere near the limit and each month is paid off in full. CC users who do neither are either plain stupid or simply thick and unfortunately that leads to the flourishing existence of Pay Day loan companies. I don't like the things but as long as there are people hell bent on 'impressing the neighbours', then they will continue to flourish.I'm no financial wizzard. Indeed I will openly admit to being far from 'clever with figures' but was taught an early lesson as a young lad salivating over the sight of some pricey toy in a shop. He said to me....."like that do you lad? Well stick your hand in your pocket and see if you have the money to buy it.. If you haven't got the money then you can't buy it".Hard yes and some may even see it as almost cruel......but I never forgot those words.When I bought my campervan it was paid for in full......cash, just as every single damn car i've ever owned. But 'impressing the neighbours' has never been my thing anyway and the most i've ever paid for a car was just three grand.

Couldn,t agree more.people who get into financial Sxxt. blame all but themselves,the must have syndrome has a lot to do with it too.

   

[Retread24800]

OK but do we know of any providers of EC cards ie cash top up card that is acceptable in Germany or are we forced to carry great wedges of cash when we want to go shopping/pay for a camping platz etc?

 

PS just think of all those poor bankers bonuses if everyone paid off their Credit, makes my heart bleed :D

 

[Guest JudgeMental]

vindiboy - 2013-09-14 3:55 PM

Bulletguy - 2013-09-14 1:55 PM

JudgeMental - 2013-09-13 9:02 AMJesus Christ was only known to loose his temper on one occasion that i know, and that when he threw the money lenders out of the temple..We have not learnt anything from that, but other Europeans have seen the danger that credit inflicts on a society and make effort to control it..but here? ...we need our collective heads examined! Now the UK awash with pay day loan company's, gambling advertised everywhere (thanks to last labour giverment). How to run a society eh?*-)

EddieTo a point I agree with your view apart from one thing. "Control" should be every individuals personal responsibility........not a matter for the State. If people get themselves into debt through buying expensive cars or, dare I mention it on here......motorhomes etc on finance, then it's nobody elses fault but their own. If employed they might think they can afford those repayments......but how secure is that job?I've used a credit card for the past thirty plus years and never had a problem. The reason is simple. I never go anywhere near the limit and each month is paid off in full. CC users who do neither are either plain stupid or simply thick and unfortunately that leads to the flourishing existence of Pay Day loan companies. I don't like the things but as long as there are people hell bent on 'impressing the neighbours', then they will continue to flourish.I'm no financial wizzard. Indeed I will openly admit to being far from 'clever with figures' but was taught an early lesson as a young lad salivating over the sight of some pricey toy in a shop. He said to me....."like that do you lad? Well stick your hand in your pocket and see if you have the money to buy it.. If you haven't got the money then you can't buy it".Hard yes and some may even see it as almost cruel......but I never forgot those words.When I bought my campervan it was paid for in full......cash, just as every single damn car i've ever owned. But 'impressing the neighbours' has never been my thing anyway and the most i've ever paid for a car was just three grand.

Couldn,t agree more.people who get into financial Sxxt. blame all but themselves,the must have syndrome has a lot to do with it too.

   

Money the root of all evil.........*-)

[Bulletguy]

Retread24800 - 2013-09-14 4:19 PMOK but do we know of any providers of EC cards ie cash top up card that is acceptable in Germany or are we forced to carry great wedges of cash when we want to go shopping/pay for a camping platz etc?

 

PS just think of all those poor bankers bonuses if everyone paid off their Credit, makes my heart bleed :D

There was a thread only last week on this very subject.I was in Germany three weeks ago and used Mastercard (pre-paid), and Visa Debit and Credit cards in Berlin, mid to smaller size towns and even villages. Some campsites only accept cash........but that can be said for certain sites here in the UK also.The question I asked at the time.....and will ask again as it never got answered. Who on earth goes anywhere today without carrying some cash......irrespective of country? Also.....nothing could be more simple than euro's. I really don't see what all the fuss is about.

[Rayjsj]

I can understand Credit cards not being accepted (as most companies put on a transaction levy, which falls onto the Trader) But Debit cards are another 'Kettle of Fish', they actually save the Bank involved money, (no cash or Cheques to process) SO, no levy should be involved, and the Trader doesn't have to worry about cash handling either. They should be more welcomed, the UK seems to have accepted them well. In fact it is very easy to survive 'almost cashless' in the UK today, (in the wallet. that is, NOT in your account). I very seldom carry more than £ 20 with me at any time these days.

Think Germany needs to 'Catch up'. Carrying large amounts of cash around with you makes you very vulnerable to theft. AND provided you refuse to divulge your pin no. your money is safe (relativly). Ray

 

 

In answer to the above 'ME', I NEVER carry more than £20 cash.

[tugga]

Rayjsj - 2013-09-14 5:21 PM

 

I can understand Credit cards not being accepted (as most companies put on a transaction levy, which falls onto the Trader) But Debit cards are another 'Kettle of Fish', they actually save the Bank involved money, (no cash or Cheques to process) SO, no levy should be involved, and the Trader doesn't have to worry about cash handling either. They should be more welcomed, the UK seems to have accepted them well. In fact it is very easy to survive 'almost cashless' in the UK today, (in the wallet. that is, NOT in your account). I very seldom carry more than £ 20 with me at any time these days.

Think Germany needs to 'Catch up'. Carrying large amounts of cash around with you makes you very vulnerable to theft. AND provided you refuse to divulge your pin no. your money is safe (relativly). Ray

 

 

In answer to the above 'ME', I NEVER carry more than £20 cash.

 

Unless you book a flight with Ryanaire, then you still have to pay a surcharge using a Debit Card! :-S

[Bulletguy]

Rayjsj - 2013-09-14 5:21 PM

 

I can understand Credit cards not being accepted (as most companies put on a transaction levy, which falls onto the Trader) But Debit cards are another 'Kettle of Fish', they actually save the Bank involved money, (no cash or Cheques to process) SO, no levy should be involved, and the Trader doesn't have to worry about cash handling either. They should be more welcomed, the UK seems to have accepted them well. In fact it is very easy to survive 'almost cashless' in the UK today, (in the wallet. that is, NOT in your account). I very seldom carry more than £ 20 with me at any time these days.

 

Think Germany needs to 'Catch up'. Carrying large amounts of cash around with you makes you very vulnerable to theft. AND provided you refuse to divulge your pin no. your money is safe (relativly).

 

Ray

 

 

In answer to the above 'ME', I NEVER carry more than £20 cash.

 

BIB.......in what respect do they need to "catch up" Ray?

 

Supermarkets in Germany accept credit cards, most if not all Restaurants, all Petrol stations, and some Campsites. In fact it's pretty much the same as here in UK......apart from price. Diesel in UK £1.40 a litre, in Germany.....£1.23.

 

Maybe it's us who needs to "catch up" and put an end to excessive pricing.

 

[Brian Kirby]

We used to have things called Eurocheques, that had their own cheque guarantee cards, and which carried the EC logo.

 

The cheques were issued by the UK banks for overseas use within Europe and the EC guarantee card was handed over in the bank or shop with the cheque. From memory, the cheque would be written the local currency, and if presented to a bank for cash, was handed to one of the cashiers, who would pass it to the foreign exchange desk to work out the amount to debit. The exchange desk then handed over the cash amount.

 

The cheques could be used in shops that carried the EC symbol for direct purchases, and you got the exchange rate on the day the cheque was cleared by the shop's bank. It was simple, and very handy, and the cleared cheques didn't hit your account until weeks after you got home! :-)

 

But, the British economy needed greater growth, so Mr Chancellor Barber authorised credit cards on a basis that no American AE or Diners card ever worked, because they had to clear the balance every month.

 

As the banks were quick to take up the credit cards (Access, Barclaycard etc), and could charge interest on the debt, plus a handling charge to the retailer, Eurocheques were declared far too liable to fraud and disappeared. Shame, as I thought them handy.

 

I assume the Germans still have something similar, that now works as a debit card in lieu of writing a cheque. Ever noticed how many queues develop in French supermarkets while someone pays by cheque, that is printed for them at the till? Ever tried using a cheque in a UK super?

 

BG says the state should not have to intervene in these matters. Maybe so, but the level of state intervention into individual citizens' financial affairs is far stricter in both Germany and France than in UK. Our problem in UK is a lack of state intervention, not too much. Compared to much of Europe, we are like the wild west on financial matters. Pre crash, many of the US banks had UK branches because FSA regulation permitted deals the Federal reserve would never have countenanced. Look how that ended.

 

We bought our first van in France, in 2005. I had a Credit Agricole account I had opened for the purpose. The deposit was 10%, paid by CA cheque. The 90% balance was paid by CA cheque on the day we took the van home. It was completely normal. If you overdrew your account in France you got a roasting, not just from the bank but from the Ministry of the Interior and, if you did it twice you were liable to be disbarred from holding a bank account. Because of that, the French would, and I believe still do, accept cheques (drawn in French banks) largely without question.

 

Know better Britain does otherwise, and no-one trusts any form of payment, including bankers' drafts. Are we better off as a result? Sorry bit of a rushed rag-bag ramble! :-D

[Retread24800]

Have to agree, and not for the first time, with Brian.

Has anybody considered why it is that Germany, has managed to restructure the old East Germany, and bail out the whole of Europe, maintains a healthy manufacturing industry, and do I need to continue by comparing the UK performance in the same period where the UK purposely decided to rely solely on a casino economy while not owning the casino? They managed better in Monte Carlo :D

 

[AliB]

Rayjsj - 2013-09-14 5:21 PM

 

I can understand Credit cards not being accepted (as most companies put on a transaction levy, which falls onto the Trader) But Debit cards are another 'Kettle of Fish', they actually save the Bank involved money, (no cash or Cheques to process) SO, no levy should be involved, .

 

Sorry, but the trader has to pay a commission charge on debit card transactions. Although it is smaller than the charge on credit cards.

[birdybiker66]

Good question, (the original post i mean) I was over there the other week and eveywhere i shopped took cards, except the budget supermarkets, Aldi, Penny etc , not sure if that's the same experience for others ?? Dave

[Rayjsj]

AliB - 2013-09-16 1:02 PM

 

Rayjsj - 2013-09-14 5:21 PM

 

I can understand Credit cards not being accepted (as most companies put on a transaction levy, which falls onto the Trader) But Debit cards are another 'Kettle of Fish', they actually save the Bank involved money, (no cash or Cheques to process) SO, no levy should be involved, .

 

Sorry, but the trader has to pay a commission charge on debit card transactions. Although it is smaller than the charge on credit cards.

 

There should be NO surcharge fo using a Debit Card, as the Bank is already making a saving on direct transfer of funds, rather than handling cash or processing a cheque. If they do, then they are crooks.

It is THEM that have been pushing for a cashless society, perhaps we should all go back to cheques ??

Ray

[Brian Kirby]

Rayjsj - 2013-09-16 7:38 PM...............There should be NO surcharge fo using a Debit Card, as the Bank is already making a saving on direct transfer of funds, rather than handling cash or processing a cheque. If they do, then they are crooks.......................Ray

Do I hear pennies dropping Ray, do I? :-D A bank is a money making machine, run for the sole benefit of its shareholders. If they can stick a charge in somewhere, they will. We have all gradually been coerced into having bank accounts, and are being coerced gradually away from using cash in favour of electronic transactions. So, money becomes virtual and weightless and, if anything goes awry with a transaction or your account is hacked it will always be your fault and never the banks security system (or one of their ever-helpful telephone banking staff) that is at fault. You won't be able to prove it anyhow, as the bank holds all the records and will only release to you what it chooses. This whole system is formally endorsed and encouraged by your Government and is entirely in your best interests. I think "crooks" is very restrained: it is a one horse race where you are obliged to bet but have to guess the name of the only runner, while the bookie holds your wallet! Sorry, moment of deep cynicism! Excellent institutions, all of them. When do we get our money back? :-)

[Guest Had Enough]

Rayjsj - 2013-09-16 7:38 PM

 

AliB - 2013-09-16 1:02 PM

 

Rayjsj - 2013-09-14 5:21 PM

 

I can understand Credit cards not being accepted (as most companies put on a transaction levy, which falls onto the Trader) But Debit cards are another 'Kettle of Fish', they actually save the Bank involved money, (no cash or Cheques to process) SO, no levy should be involved, .

 

Sorry, but the trader has to pay a commission charge on debit card transactions. Although it is smaller than the charge on credit cards.

 

There should be NO surcharge fo using a Debit Card, as the Bank is already making a saving on direct transfer of funds, rather than handling cash or processing a cheque. If they do, then they are crooks.

It is THEM that have been pushing for a cashless society, perhaps we should all go back to cheques ??

Ray

 

Banks do make a saving on debit card purchases as opposed to processing cheques or handling cash. However, that saving is passed on to businesses. People don't realise it but businesses don't get free banking as do private clients.

 

Banks charge 50p to process a cheque and a similar amount for say, £100 of cash, as it is obviously slower and more time consuming handling cheques and cash is a pain for them as they have to pay security companies to take it away.

 

However a debit card transaction will cost a retailer from about 8p to 16p depending on the size of the company, its turnover and average ticket price. This is not a commission but a fixed price per transaction.

 

So the banks are passing on the savings and this is one banking cost that has come down dramatically in the last few years.

 

Credit card sales on the other hand are charged a commission, typically 1% for a large retailer and slightly more for smaller businesses.

 

Any charges made for debit cards by retailers, airlines, ferry companies etc. are nothing to do with the banks but are simply a way of making a bit of extra profit. The companies are saving a lot of money on cheque processing charges or cash handling costs when you pay by debit card, so for them to surcharge you for using a debit card is unfair and should, in my opinion, be made illegal.

 

Credit cards are a different matter. If you pay for your £1000 ferry booking by by cheque the company will pay just 50p for that cheque to be processed. If you pay by credit card though, they will pay £10, an extra £9.50 in bank charges, so it could be argued that there is justification for a surcharge on credit cards.

 

However, as a retailer I totally oppose charging customers for using any kind of card and I budget my processing costs as just another expense along with wages and business rates.

 

I firmly believe that the price on the window ticket or in a catalogue or on a website should be the price the client pays and there should be no surprise additions at the close of sale.

 

Credit card commision is a fraction of what it was a couple of decades ago and it's time that the government outlawed all forms of surcharges for using them.

 

Even those who think it odd or unfair that banks are in business for their shareholders (why else would you risk going into business?) should be able to see that surcharges on card use is not the fault of the banks. This is one case where they are not guilty!

 

[Guest JudgeMental]

Brian's perfectly correct.....between banks and government our economy in ruins. Historically businesses have never been able to invest for the long term, UK Banks simply would not allow it, bunch of quick buck yobs... whereas in Europe this normal governance backed up by strong government and banking institutions, hence their stronger economies.

 

Neither do we invest in our people, surely the puropse of a government to build a cohesive society....instead they demonise the young and old, then astonishingly blame the poor and disenfranchised for everything! it's the same political agenda as Adolph Hitler, keep the eye off the ball and turn them against each other....

 

We really have pretty poor politians not a backbone between them.... And it's not getting better anytime soon, all more worried about persona and ratings then building and running an inclusive society/economy..

Banks have brought us to our knees and continue to do it again...and we stand impotently by while they pay themselves gargantuan amounts and laugh in our faces....just wait till this new bubble bursts. Because that what our economy is hot air and house price inflation, because we don't build and keep it in short supply!lol Well....they say you get the government you deserve! :-D

[derek pringle]

Hi All,

Having just returned yesterday from a month going through France/ Germany / Netherlands we found a mix of card takers and non card takers. I would like to know which prepaid cash card is most acceptable at toll booths in France. We have a Travelex MasterCard which we thought would be much better to use when using Toll motorways or Tunnels, saving the messing about with cash and change. However we still had to mess this way as the card was not accepted.

Any Ideas please.

cheers

derek

[Retread24800]

derek pringle - 2013-09-17 9:58 AMHi All, Having just returned yesterday from a month going through France/ Germany / Netherlands we found a mix of card takers and non card takers. I would like to know which prepaid cash card is most acceptable at toll booths in France. We have a Travelex MasterCard which we thought would be much better to use when using Toll motorways or Tunnels, saving the messing about with cash and change. However we still had to mess this way as the card was not accepted.Any Ideas please.cheersderek

 

Never had a problem on Autoroutes with UK issued Credit/Debit cards from mainstream(Barclay's and HSBC) Banks. The HSBC card doesn't charge for foreign money and gives a reasonable rate of exchange and so I've never been tempted to use a ForeX type card.

That being said I did have a problem with a 'foreign' card when trying to get onto an aire on the ile d'Oleron, would only accept domestic cards, but that was a rare exception.

 

[maggyd]

birdybiker66 - 2013-09-16 5:31 PM

 

Good question, (the original post i mean) I was over there the other week and eveywhere i shopped took cards, except the budget supermarkets, Aldi, Penny etc , not sure if that's the same experience for others ?? Dave

 

We were talked into a Credit card by Nationwide when when seeing an adviser I complained that we were disappointed that they had introduced a charge for getting at our money when abroad. :-S

 

I used it to draw money at ATM,s ( Big mistake) Im sure we ended up paying more than on the debit card we had used the year previously! I had set it up so they would pay it off every month ! didn't make a difference as Brian K explained to me we were in fact borrowing money !!

Also it happened that our ~Tom Tom went capput *-) neither the Credit Card or the Debit card was excepted at a large electrical retailer ! we had to pay cash which until we got to a cash machine cleared us both out.

 

Go to a ATM take the most you can out and pay cash.

 

As they say nothings for nothing and in the long run saves embarrassment when your card is refused.

[derek pringle]

cheers for the response Retread,

I was just left wondering whether or not to change to a different prepaid card to the one we have or go back to using Bank Issued debit and credit cards. Got the prepaid on the basis of security and charges etc like most people I suppose. I don't know if the tolls accept them or not or whether it was just we had the wrong one.

cheers

derek