Frank McAuley Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Does anybody have any experiences of cracking around the rim of footwells in Autotrail motorhomes? I have just noticed cracking around the rim of the footwell where it joins the floor in a rt angled bend. My mhome is just 2 years old so I thought there would be no probs, VIZ IT WOULD BE COVERED BY WARRANTY.but it has turned out that Autotrail pass their warranty responsibilities unto an Insurance Comp- MB & G -I think it's called and at this time they are with holding cover ! With the cost of purchase of a motorhome and a record of service I am dismayed by this approach . Does anybody have any experience of this practice and/or any advice to offer in addressing this approach by Autotrail's agent; do other motorhome/caravan manufacturers adopt a similar procedure I wonder? Do continentals like HYMER operate in a similar fashion? :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Just to be clear, do you mean the foot wells in the cab where the driver and passenger's feet go when sat in the cab seats facing forward? If so these are part of the base vehicle not the conversion, so have you spoken to Fiat, assuming it's a Fiat? Or have Fiat evaded responsibility by blaming Autotrail for the way it converted your vehicle - the very same chassis cab that they provided specifically for the purpose? Interesting that it was discovered at all given the thickness and positioning of all the insulation and floor covering and it begs the question - are there any more with similar issues waiting to be discovered? How, may I ask, did you become aware of the problem? Perhaps the rest of us had better nip outside to check our own van? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 I think he will be talking about the habitation footwell and if it's the case then a quick check by other owners including myself needs to be done. All AutoTrails have a footwell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Just been out and checked mine with the step extended and it's sound, the step is mounted on a steel bracket which covers the sunken step area and it's solid. The Swifts step used to be attached direct to the wood floor and they could break free if any damp was around so ten out of ten for AutoTrails design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Ah - I see now - perhaps he means the habitation door foot well? As I recall don't most modern Autotrails use a GRP moulding for this part? If so should hopefully be no great problem to take out a damaged one and replace? As for warranty - as I understand it, ultimately legal liability for manufacturing defects and failures rests with the supplying dealer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Frank McAuley - 2013-10-17 6:24 PM Do continentals like HYMER operate in a similar fashion? :-S They certainly don't, Hymer support their own warranties and often carry out repairs when the vehicle is out of warranty. (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank McAuley Posted October 17, 2013 Author Share Posted October 17, 2013 Apologies folks: I am referring to the habitation door footwell and it's a Delaware so perhaps all you Delaware owners should have a look or perhaps there was a manufacturing defect in this particular batch? As if by coincidence the Thule auto step stopped working and is currently being replaced under warranty- I wonder if there is any connection? When I enquired a to why the step had malfunctioned I was told "Splines had broken off the step's gearing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Frank McAuley - 2013-10-17 6:24 PM Does anybody have any experiences of cracking around the rim of footwells in Autotrail motorhomes? I have just noticed cracking around the rim of the footwell where it joins the floor in a rt angled bend. My mhome is just 2 years old so I thought there would be no probs, VIZ IT WOULD BE COVERED BY WARRANTY.but it has turned out that Autotrail pass their warranty responsibilities unto an Insurance Comp- MB & G -I think it's called and at this time they are with holding cover ! .................... :-S Frank, can you clarify what you mean by "withholding cover"? Do you mean the insurer has rejected your claim as a warranty issue, or that they are now refusing to honour any claims on AT vans? Did anyone from the insurer looked at the defect before rejecting the claim? If not, on what basis was their decision based? If they are just rejecting the claim, they should be prepared to state why they consider it is not a warranty matter. What you describe is clearly a defect - assuming the cracking is not merely superficial and cosmetic. If the cracking is more than superficial then it indicates a potential failure of a component, and refusing to resolve this under warranty now simply means that an eventual failure will inevitably occur after the warranty has expired. Even under the terms of a warranty this seems to me rather "sharp" practise. But, most important, have you pursued this via the dealer who sold the van? If not, you should do so without delay. The warranty is merely a promise by the maker to repair or replace defective parts at their discretion, subject to conditions and any exclusions they state. Is there anything in the warranty terms that might, reasonably, explain why this apparent defect is not a warranty issue? If not, and you remain convinced that the habitation door step footwell is failing, you must return to the dealer and ask them what they intend to do about it. Legally, a defect is the selling dealer's liability, not the manufacturer's, and he must organise the repairs whether or not any warranty is honoured. He cannot escape this liability by hiding behind the warranty. However, it must be a genuine defect, and he must be given the chance to make good the defect himself. See what the dealer says, and then contact your local trading standards or citizens advice (they should have a duty solicitor) for guidance on how to proceed if the dealer refuses to cooperate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Sale of goods act must surely apply in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffy Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Tracker - 2013-10-17 7:36 PM Ah - I see now - perhaps he means the habitation door foot well? As I recall don't most modern Autotrails use a GRP moulding for this part? The footwell is GRP on our 9 year old AT Tracker and I had a similar problem just this summer the. The structure seemed to delaminate, I think the reinforcing came away from the plastic, It creaked and was soft to stand on. The fix was quite simple I supported it with to pieces of hard wood brased off the step frame work. There was no sign of external cracking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Hi Frank, just a few questions - apologies in advance as I do not wish to 'offened' but the answers could be pertinent, especially since your step is also now 'bust': 1. Are you or anyone else who uses your MH of over 'average' weight? 2. How much use has your MH had, eg do you got away for months on end in it? 3. Are you able to get in/out of your MH easily or do you need to spend more time than is normal doing so? If not, and you use your MH as most do, for just a few weeks away and are not overly 'heavy', then I can see no reason why they could refuse to cover this as a warranty issue especially as the electric step is coverd. If however any of the above apply above then this may be the basis of their refusal - it doesn't mean it is right, just an 'excuse' for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank McAuley Posted October 18, 2013 Author Share Posted October 18, 2013 Good morning Mel, Brian and others A's to Mel's Q's:- We are both fairly trim figures (blush) & definitely not over weight; The Motorhome is used once per year on a trip to France and is stored in a dry and secure building the rest of the year- it's underused with approx 6k miles in 2 years and fully serviced; Nobody else uses the Motorhome; We are both mobile with no disabilities and have no diffs entering or leaving! I must say I'm impressed with Hymer's way of doing business - everything seems to be "out sourced" in this country! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank McAuley Posted October 18, 2013 Author Share Posted October 18, 2013 Good morning Brian Thank you for your expert and valued opinion. I intend to work through your suggestions today. Basically I want to know how M G & B can make a decision without examining the veh,viz who advised M B & G have said they will not cover( pay ) for repair/replacement of the footwell , ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Footwell damage. The manufacturing process of this particular GRP item may not have 'positioned' the internal structure elements 'correctly' it is impossible to tell. All the elements are fed through hoppers to the machines moulding faces via channels. Unless every item produced is cut and tested there is always the possibility of a structure failure. This can occur in many diverse materials that start as a molten 'pudding' including steels. Steels of course can be X rayed for faults. Like currants in a cake when cut open, they are not all arranged perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterjl Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Hi Frank If this is an insurance based warranty then it may be subject to ombudsman service. I suggest that you write asking for details of the ombudsman service and ask for a "letter of deadlock". Some years ago I had a caravan where the extended warrantyinsurance company tried to avoid what I considered to be their responsibilities. Once I asked about a letter of deadlock and ombudsman it all suddenly was ok albeit it took some time. It really depends on the type of policy and the wording but worth pursuing. Good luck Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Frank McAuley - 2013-10-18 10:10 AM Good morning Brian Thank you for your expert and valued opinion. I intend to work through your suggestions today. Basically I want to know how M G & B can make a decision without examining the veh,viz who advised M B & G have said they will not cover( pay ) for repair/replacement of the footwell , ! Flatterer! :-) I should, however, stress that my reply is not the work of an expert, just a generalist! I apologise for my somewhat rambling post, thoughts arose as I was writing and I didn't have the time to re-order it all to make better sense. In retrospect, the most important thing is that it is the dealer who is liable under UK consumer law: the warranty is just a bonus if it works. One thing you could try is a direct approach to AT setting out the full circumstances, and stating that you are extremely disappointed at the attitude of their appointed warranty insurer. It may cause them to review the relationship with the insurer which, if the insurer continues dealing with apparently bona fide claims in like vein will eventually damage AT's reputation. On the face of it, your van has a genuine defect, and you have a reasonable claim under warranty. However, you cannot realistically expect to take action against the manufacturer for breach of warranty, because you have no contractual relationship with the manufacturer. Your contractual relationship is with the dealer alone and, if all else fails, providing you do things in the right way (writing, reasonable notice, etc) you should have grounds to recover any repair costs you incur from him if he fails to make the necessary repairs himself. That is why it is imperative you deal with the dealer in the right way. He is the only show in town, and the fact that the manufacturer's warranty insurer has rejected your claim does not let him off the hook on which the law places him. It would obviously be much simpler and quicker if the warranty claim were accepted, which is why I have suggested trying to get the decision reviewed but, ultimately, if they stick with their decision, there is little to be gained by trying to fight them and much more to be gained by concentrating on the dealer. If you tell the dealer what you propose to do vis-a-vis the insurer and his attitude, and any possible direct approach you may make to AT, it may be that the dealer will himself speak to AT on your behalf and get someone with sense to listen. At least then, if you do end up having to sue to recover costs, you will be able to demonstrate (letters etc) that you kept the dealer fully informed and involved and did your best to mitigate his costs. This will strengthen your case. With any luck, once you get the dealer's full attention, he just may decide it will be simpler and cheaper to undertake the repairs himself in the interests of good customer relations, and then argue the toss with AT, or work out a way to get his revenge at some later date! Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank McAuley Posted October 19, 2013 Author Share Posted October 19, 2013 Tyou Brian; spoke to dealer this am who will talk again on Mon. Apparently the thrust of M B & G's refusal is that the footwell is body work and they don't cover body work! Seems illogical to me since the footwell is entirely within the habitation element! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 So, does the AT warranty document anywhere exclude defective body parts (other than Fiat bits)? Logically (I know! :-)), if it is warranted by AT, and was made by AT, it should be covered, whatever it is called. Are we sure this is not the insurer's office boy speaking? I think the answer to the insurer is spherical and plural! It seems the dealer has been dealing with this so far? Methinks it is time for him to start putting his client's interests first, and to stop rolling over at the first whiff of insurance "industry" scotch mist! I think I'd still be a bit inclined to let AT know what is being done in their name, though. If this is typical of how the insurer is handling warranty claims on their behalf, their name will be mud in a few more months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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