Guest JudgeMental Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 Things going from bad to worse...but at least gthe sun shinning and I have good neighbors....Truma secure motion valve not staying in, cant find a leak ( have the honeywell gas sensor/sniffer) so thinking it must be the trauma secure motion valve AGAIN! :-S what's the most reliable, uncomplicated wall mounted valve that i can buy please. will have to go and buy a camping stove for now *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 Eddie, do you mean the green button on the regulator? If so, shouldn't this be pressed in, held for a couple of seconds and then released? Or do you mean the button on the hose which, I think, releases the pressure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggyd Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 maybe you need to contact here http://www.thetrumacentre.co.uk/magento/truma/tma/truma-products/truma-heating-systems.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 yes the green safety valve on secure motion not staying in, I light the hob, it lights and extinguishes almost mediately.both me and a neighborhave examined forleaks andcan find zilch.... talking to "gas it" and they have requested a photo...so that sent. looking at thread on MHF someone recommended a cleese? valve as a replacement. Sorry... but ast thing I want to do is contact truma...have had enough to be honest, just want the valve gone.. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 On ours, you have to press the green button in and hold it for about 3 seconds, then let it out slowly. I don't think it should stay in. You definitely have to let the button out slowly, I have got this wrong before. Once the button is out, you can then test the gas on your hob. At this point I would now test the heater (or hot water) on gass to check if the issue is with all gas appliances or still with the hob. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 Chris..Just tried that and gas runs and cuts out almost immediately as per usual..really think its the valve (again) there are loads of posts on the internet wilt multiple failures. I meant to change it and never got round to it.... so my fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 Last thing I can think of......do you have a button on the hose from the bottle to the regulator? If so, this needs to be pressed once before doing the thing with the green button. Don't mean to be stating the obvious but we are clutching at straws at the mo........ Ah, one other thing, didn't you change your hose connector recently after the other one got snapped, I wonder if this might be connected. One last thing, even tho the hob goes out, try the gas heater or hot water just to pinpoint the fault. If heater works, then fault is still in the hob only, if heater fails then fault likely with regulator area. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 JudgeMental - 2013-10-24 4:10 PM Chris..Just tried that and gas runs and cuts out almost immediately as per usual..really think its the valve (again) there are loads of posts on the internet wilt multiple failures. I meant to change it and never got round to it.... so my fault. Sorry, wasn't sure if this meant you let the heater or the hob run, hence my other post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 Is it not possible to just remove/uncouple the existing reg' and just slip on a length of flex hose and a cheap bottle reg' for the time being? ...or can't you do that with refillable systems?... :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnP Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 Suggest Gaslow Clesse 30mbar Two types. 01-1780 10mm outlet 01-1770 8mm outlet Cost £36.50 I had my Secure motion fail after 9 months. Truma did not want to know. The replacement does not have the safety feature of the original but has proved reliable over past 15 months. I turn gas off when travelling. Has a long guarantee . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 heating and fridge refuse to run as well..almost certain its the secure motion..as cant ID a leak! waiting for gas it..and have emailed gaslow re their cleese valve. but wife leaves for airport about midday saturday, and will BA let here carry it in hand luggage as thats all she's bringing *-) have bought a single ring camping gas cooker (type Mel likes) for £20,so can get along with that, but journey home wont be much fun without heating and fridge if I dont get it sorted :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 Eddie, Another suggestion (from a non user) If there is no 'continuous' supply of gas pressure present at the 'button / control end' then the switching arrangement would / should / could de-activate. In other words are you sure you have enough pressure coming out of the bottle itself or is the fault there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyishuk Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 Following Wille5 thoughts; Is it possible that the auto change over valve is pointing to the wrong gas bottle, has been knocked slightly and blocking the flow from the used bottle ? Rgds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 both bottles near enough full..have tried every combination.really dont know how to test Wills idea..but cant ID leak and if all isolated at isolation valves and introducing one applince at a time valve does not hold in.. these truama valves really more trouble than they are worth, a real common problem, just look on internet... just had peppers, onions garlic and courgette and a lovely big juicy steak,cooked on the single burner Chinese cooker...life not to bad! :D chap here who is trying to get valve for cooker, also trying to source valve tomorrow, which will take presure of Mrs M and a UK purchase in time for flight... like i said earlier can manage down here no problems in these temps (still in trunks) but journey home would be tough without heating :-S edit: no auto change over. just truma duo control fitted to secure motion valve... edit 2: the duo control is automatic apparently *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 JohnP - 2013-10-24 5:27 PM Suggest Gaslow Clesse 30mbar Two types. 01-1780 10mm outlet 01-1770 8mm outlet Cost £36.50 I had my Secure motion fail after 9 months. Truma did not want to know. The replacement does not have the safety feature of the original but has proved reliable over past 15 months. I turn gas off when travelling. Has a long guarantee . As this, AFAIK Clesse have not had the problems of Truma, we carry one as a spare in case the Truma fails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverback Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 pepe63 - 2013-10-24 5:22 PM Is it not possible to just remove/uncouple the existing reg' and just slip on a length of flex hose and a cheap bottle reg' for the time being? ...or can't you do that with refillable systems?... :-S for what its worth judge, i'm of the same opinion of pep, i dont see why you cant do this even on refillables jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 With a wall mounted regulator, the gas comes in at the top and passes out through the bottom. The top connector (on ours) can be unscrewed but the bottom one (which is where you would need to connect if you were to bypass the regulator and use an ' on bottle' one) is 'hard wired' into the copper piping which then goes on into the van to be distributed around the various appliances. So, not really plug and play but could be achieved with a bit of ......welding? Turn off that bottle :$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverback Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 just thinking off top of my head.. another bottle, reg into it, pipe out..disconnect truma to copper pipe, put pipe from bottle to copper pipe...no? yes? or decant gas from refill bottle, remove fitting to bottle to copper pipe, put in new fitting with a flex pipe to reg then to copper pipe no? yes?...or have i had too many beers!! (lol) jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Why do some things go backwards, just barmy. What on earth was wrong with a cheap, easy to change, readily available on bottle reg before these things came along. :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Mike, you and I know why we have refillables so no need to argue the case further. However, I agree that the advent of wall mounted regulators in morphemes has caused problems over the years. Even with a nice new Cleese regulator in your spares box, the old reg has to be removed and the new one fitted which involve soldering to pipe work. Two choices, I feel......get your Truma reg changed to a Cleese one prior to next trip or take it out altogether and have a bottle top reg which should be possible even on a refillable system. Both actions are really preventative measures if you are worried about the Truma regulators long term integrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 bolero boy - 2013-10-24 9:30 PM The top connector (on ours) can be unscrewed but the bottom one (which is where you would need to connect if you were to bypass the regulator and use an ' on bottle' one) is 'hard wired' into the copper piping which then goes on into the van to be distributed around the various appliances. So, not really plug and play but could be achieved with a bit of ......welding? Turn off that bottle :$ Mornin' Chris..Sorry,I'm not quite with you...... What's to stop the bulkhead reg' from just being unscrewed from the pipework leading into the van and then removed from it's position(..leaving the way clear to attach a flew hose/bottle reg')? It'd be simple enough to attempt on our bulkhead mounted reg'(..although we only use an exchange bottle). So not quite sure were the "welding" bit would come into it... :-S (lol) Same with switching to the Cleese reg'...Why would "soldering" be involved?..Why couldn't you just use the relevant fittings? :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 bolero boy - 2013-10-24 9:30 PM With a wall mounted regulator, the gas comes in at the top and passes out through the bottom. The top connector (on ours) can be unscrewed but the bottom one (which is where you would need to connect if you were to bypass the regulator and use an ' on bottle' one) is 'hard wired' into the copper piping which then goes on into the van to be distributed around the various appliances. So, not really plug and play but could be achieved with a bit of ......welding? Turn off that bottle :$ As far as I'm aware all bulkhead-mounted regulators will have a male M20 x 150 threaded inlet to accept the female W20 threaded end of a gas 'pigtail' (or to connect to the outlet of a change-over device). The regulator's outlet will be either an 8mm or 10mm compression fitting that allows connection to the leisure-vehicle's fixed metal gas pipework. I find it difficult to understand why a motorhome manufacturer should (or even could) 'solder' the regulator to the metal gas pipework as you seem to be saying is the case with your Swift. Moving from a bulkhead-mounted regulator to an 'on-bottle' regulator as an emergency measure has been discussed at some length in the past: http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Hints-and-Tips/-Spare-regulator-fittings-/23210/ I would have thought from JudgeMental's description that his system has a Truma "Duo Comfort" automatic change-over device (not a "Duo Control", that's a change-over device with integrated regulator). While swapping the present Secumotion regulator for a Clesse one has attractions, there's no guarantee that the Clesse product will be an immediate swap for the Truma regulator and simply connect between the Truma change-over device and metal pipework. OK perhaps if the change is to be made professionally, but a DIY swap may prove less than straightforward. Although Truma 2-stage regulators have gained a bad reputation, it needs to be emphasised that the regulator originally fitted to most leisure vehicles since around 2004 will have been a Truma-branded one and they haven't all failed. Given the thousands and thousands of Truma regulators in leisure vehicles, the failure rate is probably tiny. The Clesse-branded single-stage regulator that Gaslow markets is supposedly bomb-proof, but they aren't (to the best of my knowledge) fitted as original equipment to leisure vehicles nowadays and the number in general use will be small. In JudgeMental's case, it may also be worth considering why a 2nd Truma regulator has (apparently) failed so soon after the original was replaced, and why the original Truma regulator failed so quickly. Truma has always maintained that the reason their regulators were failing was due to the constituents in the LPG that was passing through the regulator - essentially, that 'contaminated' LPG was damaging the regulator. It has to be said that this was the logical explanation and Truma has now addressed the potential problem by marketing a filter to remove contaminants from the LPG. I believe JudgeMental's refillable gas bottles are now over 6 years old, which makes me wonder whether the regulator-related problems lie with what's within the bottles. If 'muck' in the LPG does manage to get past the regulator and reaches the gas appliances (I recall that a fault with the Adria's hob was reported within the last fortnight) repairs could be costly. This is a 2008 Australian report on the consequences of contaminants in Autogas vehicle systems http://www.commerce.wa.gov.au/energysafety/PDF/Reports_and_discussion_papers/report_autogas_hoses.pdf While most of the problems seem to have been linked to the vehicle installation itself, mention is made of supply-chain hoses making a small contribution. Refillable LPG bottles fitted to leisure vehicles are (I suspect) rarely run completely empty and rarely (if ever) removed from the vehicle and 'purged' of any residual liquid inside. Even if LPG contamination due to supply-chain hoses were very small, there's the potential for contaminants accumulating in refillable bottles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 I'd forgotten all about asking that Derek! .... In the end I just got hold of a barbed(Fulham?) fitting that mated to the existing pipework... ...and the spare assembly has sat in the van(somewhere?),untouched for 2+years (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Derek Uzzell - 2013-10-25 8:45 AM The Clesse-branded single-stage regulator that Gaslow markets is supposedly bomb-proof, but they aren't (to the best of my knowledge) fitted as original equipment to leisure vehicles nowadays and the number in general use will be small. The reason we have a Clesse as spare, is that's what was supplied as standard with our Globecar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldi Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 morning folks, I am on my third regulator in five years, the second one only lasting 10 months , the first two were securmotion. I fitted an 424rv from gas it together with washable filter earlier this year and to date everything has been ok . I would stongly advise people to carry a spare. The time spent in the van over the past five years has been about fourteen months. I use calor standard steel cylinders not refillable. I too wonder if muck can acumulate in refillable tanks. norm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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