Guest Had Enough Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 The thing of course that anyone who knows his stuff should be aware of is that forced auto-enrolment applies to employers and not to employees. Workers can opt out and any worker who knows that he is only going to be working for a couple of days a week for a short season will not have to be enrolled. Employers will make it attractive to such workers to opt out so that they (the employer) does not have to enrol a worker who may only work for him for a total of twenty days for instance. Any sensible employer will pay a bit extra to avoid the paperwork and expense involved! If you're such a worker and you're offered the choice of either a bit extra in your pay packet, or a pension deduction I know what they'll decide! I'm all for the scheme for regular and permanent staff either full or part time but if I take on someone for a few weeks over Christmas I am not going to get involved in signing him up for a pension! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted November 7, 2013 Author Share Posted November 7, 2013 Not true Frank Employees have to be enrolled and the first contribution paid and then the employee can opt out if they want That is why it is called "Auto" Enrolment. It applies to Employees and is facilitated by the Employer. This is set out under "Employer Duties" As regards opt out - I quote:- Q: Are there any exclusions to the employer duties? A: Yes, there are exclusions and they are split into two. People who are treated as workers The following people are treated as workers but are not covered by the employer duties: those who do not work or ordinarily work in Great Britain those under age 16, and those aged 75 and over. People who are not treated as workers The following people are not treated as workers so the employer duties don't apply to them: the self employed members of the armed forces, and directors of companies unless they have a contract of employment to work for that company and there is someone else employed by the company under a contract of employment. The thing is of course that if you want proper advice on this as an employee or an employer then you need proper advice. If you don't then you can make the mistake that Frank makes in his last para above. The employer duties apply to short term contract workers each time work is undertaken. For example if a company employs a worker for three months, then employs them again six months later, the employer duties will apply on both occasions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted November 7, 2013 Author Share Posted November 7, 2013 Had Enough - 2013-11-07 3:45 PM Workers can opt out and any worker who knows that he is only going to be working for a couple of days a week for a short season will not have to be enrolled. Employers will make it attractive to such workers to opt out so that they (the employer) does not have to enrol a worker who may only work for him for a total of twenty days for instance. Any sensible employer will pay a bit extra to avoid the paperwork and expense involved! If you're such a worker and you're offered the choice of either a bit extra in your pay packet, or a pension deduction I know what they'll decide! I'm all for the scheme for regular and permanent staff either full or part time but if I take on someone for a few weeks over Christmas I am not going to get involved in signing him up for a pension! In fact Frank - do any of the above and you will be breaking the law. Read this Pension auto-enrolment: what employers need to know This guide is based on UK law. This was updated in April 2013. Topics Pay and benefits Employment Pensions Between October 2012 and February 2018, employers will need to automatically enrol all of their "jobholders" in a workplace pension scheme. Minimum employer contribution levels will also apply. Jobholders may choose to opt out of the scheme, though. Employers should identify the date when they must start auto-enrolment. The largest employers started from 1 October 2012, with smaller and new businesses phased in over the next four years. There is a link below to a document published by the Department for Work and Pensions, showing when auto-enrolment will apply to employers of different sizes. Employers should check in advance whether their existing pension scheme meets the minimum requirements for auto-enrolment. This includes minimum contribution levels (for defined contribution schemes) or benefit levels (for defined benefit schemes). Also, the jobholder must not be required to provide any information or to express a choice (for example, about the investment of contributions) in order to become an active member. Employers should identify their jobholders and establish which of them are not already enrolled in a compliant scheme. Jobholders include employees, temporary workers, directors employed under a service contract and agency workers (who are considered to be employed by whoever is responsible for paying them). They must have a minimum level of earnings (set at the income tax threshold) to qualify. Jobholders aged between 22 and state pension age who are not already members of a compliant scheme will need to be automatically enrolled in one. If any jobholders are not already enrolled in a compliant scheme, employers should consider what scheme to use to meet the auto-enrolment requirements. Employers will need to check that they are satisfying the requirements in respect of minimum contribution levels for their employees. For auto-enrolment purposes, contributions are based on a definition of earningswhich includes salary, wages, commission, bonuses and overtime. Contributions are only paid in respect of earnings in a defined band (currently £5,668 to £41,475). Contributions to an existing scheme may be based on a different definition of earnings, so company payroll systems may need to be updated. There will be an optional waiting period of up to three months before an employee needs to be automatically enrolled into a workplace pension. Workers can, however, opt in during the waiting period. (So if your Christmas temporary worker says I want in from day one of employment - you have no choice - to incentivise them to do otherwise will land you with a substantial fine) Employers should also put processes in place to identify auto-enrolment triggers for existing employees and new joiners (eg when they turn 22 or reach the minimum level of earnings). Individuals can opt out of scheme membership, within one month of becoming a scheme member or receiving enrolment information. If they do so, all contributions must be refunded. (So in case you missed it Frank - as the employer - you HAVE to auto enrol all employees) Someone who has opted out can apply to re-enrol, but only once in a 12-month period. Automatic re-enrolment will apply every three years, although employers will have some flexibility about when re-enrolment should take place. (So even if an employee does opt out and you give them back their contributions - in three years time you have to auto enrol them all over again) Employers will need to communicate with staff about auto-enrolment and explain that they have the right to opt out if they wish. Employers must also report to the Pensions Regulator to confirm that they have complied with their auto-enrolment obligations. Employers cannot encourage jobholders to opt out of auto-enrolment nor can they encourage candidates to do so during the recruitment process – penalties will apply. Employers should bear this in mind when communicating with their workforce about the new requirements. .......................... Now a word to the wise Frank - I am trying to be generous here - magnanimous even. You in contrast seem to want to be clever. Please give it a rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 So it turns out that if a company uses lots of temporary and transient workers that they don't have to enrol them! The three months period of grace covers this. Not as scary as has been implied then! Fortunately I have nothing to do with this as my general and personnel manager is in charge and I'm sure he'll have it all sorted. We're extremely well organised and have first class advisors! That's why we're so successful! (lol) From the web: Dealing with temporary and agency staff If your employees come and go fairly frequently or perhaps you use a probationary period, then you may wish to consider the three month ‘grace period’ offered by the legislation. This permits you to suspend the auto-enrolment monitoring for the first three months from your AED. Most of our junior staff are employed on a probationary period contract so it looks as though we may not have to enrol them if it turns out that they're not suitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted November 7, 2013 Author Share Posted November 7, 2013 No Frank READ what is said - not what you think is said. The 3 month period of grace is available to the Employee to decide if they want to join. If they decide on Day 1 then the employer has to enrol them. And most employees would decide that this is a good idea - especially if they contribute just 3% with full tax relief and the Employer has to contribute 5%. That means that for every £10 of gross contribution by a basic rate taxpayer, the employee actually pays just £8. And as that £10 will represent 3% of earnings the employer has to contribute a further £16.67 for each £10 gross the employee contributes - or 5% of earnings So, for a contribution of just £8 out of their income, the employee gets £26.67 invested. Anyone that thinks most employees would not find that attractive and/or be advised to stay in such a scheme is living in cloud cookoo land! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted November 7, 2013 Author Share Posted November 7, 2013 From the Pensions Regulator:- During the postponement period Staff whose automatic enrolment you’ve postponed can choose to opt in to your pension scheme during the postponement period. For more information about what to do if you get an opt-in request go to opting in and joining. ................................................ I am pleased you are getting competent advice Frank. Because based on what you posted earlier - you need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 CliveH - 2013-11-07 5:40 PM No Frank READ what is said - not what you think is said. The 3 month period of grace is available to the Employee to decide if they want to join. If they decide on Day 1 then the employer has to enrol them. And most employees would decide that this is a good idea - especially if they contribute just 3% with full tax relief and the Employer has to contribute 5%. That means that for every £10 of gross contribution by a basic rate taxpayer, the employee actually pays just £8. And as that £10 will represent 3% of earnings the employer has to contribute a further £16.67 for each £10 gross the employee contributes - or 5% of earnings So, for a contribution of just £8 out of their income, the employee gets £26.67 invested. Anyone that thinks most employees would not find that attractive and/or be advised to stay in such a scheme is living in cloud cookoo land! What are you on about? The minimum contribution for me is 2% which is 1% from me and 1% from the employee. After 2017 the minimum contribution is 5% but that's made up of 2% from me and 3% from the employee. Check your sums! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 CliveH - 2013-11-07 5:53 PM From the Pensions Regulator:- During the postponement period Staff whose automatic enrolment you’ve postponed can choose to opt in to your pension scheme during the postponement period. For more information about what to do if you get an opt-in request go to opting in and joining. ................................................ I am pleased you are getting competent advice Frank. Because based on what you posted earlier - you need it. We use real experts Clive. A first class business accountant and a first class IFA who runs our existing pension schemes and our personal investments. That's why we're successful! ;-) We do nothing of this nature without consulting them. We employ professional training firms for our staff and we employ a PR firm to get us the maximum publicity using social media etc. That's why we're successful Clive! ;-) I'm just an advisor and consultant whose biggest chore is picking up his dividend every quarter! Good eh? (lol) (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted November 7, 2013 Author Share Posted November 7, 2013 Oh Frank - what am I to do with you? It is not as tho the details of the phased input are hard to research. You quote one of the interim rates*-) Read! "Initial contributions only 2% but will rise to 8% by 2018: The initial contributions are only 1% of salary from workers and 1% from employers, so perhaps it is not surprising that opt-out rates have been low. From September 2017 the total contributions from both workers and employers will rise to 5% (with 2% from the employer) and by end September 2018 the full auto-enrolment contributions of 8% (with 3% from the employer) will have to be paid in." If you are using "First Class Advisers" - then i am pleased - but I suggest you try to listen more - maybe take notes that you can refer to - because from the evidence you present here - you seem constantly unable to grasp the bigger picture. You even suggested you would be doing things that could get you into a fair bit of trouble with the Pensions Regulator. And I don't think you would want that now would you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 CliveH - 2013-11-07 9:31 PM Oh Frank - what am I to do with you? It is not as tho the details of the phased input are hard to research. You quote one of the interim rates*-) Read! "Initial contributions only 2% but will rise to 8% by 2018: The initial contributions are only 1% of salary from workers and 1% from employers, so perhaps it is not surprising that opt-out rates have been low. From September 2017 the total contributions from both workers and employers will rise to 5% (with 2% from the employer) and by end September 2018 the full auto-enrolment contributions of 8% (with 3% from the employer) will have to be paid in." If you are using "First Class Advisers" - then i am pleased - but I suggest you try to listen more - maybe take notes that you can refer to - because from the evidence you present here - you seem constantly unable to grasp the bigger picture. You even suggested you would be doing things that could get you into a fair bit of trouble with the Pensions Regulator. And I don't think you would want that now would you. Some interim period! The 8% rate comes in in 2018 - anything can happen before then! I'm not worrying! And we do use first class advisors, that's why we're successful Clive! ;-) They're very good on the little things that concern proper retailers, like whether we should rent superb shops in prime locations and spend our money on stock and promotion rather than buy units in the suburbs that we can get for a pittance but will do very little business. A major branch of mine has £300K of stock at net value. Try opening a few shops that need that level of stock if you're tying up money in one million pound retail units! But I no longer worry about petty details such as pensions and hiring and firing. As I told you I have a first class team and my role is to advise on the bigger picture such as the company's direction and general ethos. All in all we don't seem to be doing too badly do we? (lol) (lol) How are you doing these days? ;-) If you're successful Clive and rise above the level of a tiny little firm you can have people who do these things! I don't suppose that Alan Sugar is worried too much about the new pension regs. He'll give it to one of his minions to sort out! (lol) (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted November 7, 2013 Author Share Posted November 7, 2013 Now monumentally dull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 CliveH - 2013-11-07 10:33 PM Now monumentally dull. We now know when you do your little foot stamping that you've run out of ideas! Monumentally childish and sad! (lol) (lol) (lol) Anyway Clive, you really should be in bed now. You've got to get up at six in the morning to come on here after you've read all the 'pinks'! How do you find the time eh? ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted November 7, 2013 Author Share Posted November 7, 2013 No - I am just bored with your inferiority complex requiring you to keep telling us how grand you are! The irony is that you, yet again, are doing exactly that which you try to make out I am doing by posting the occasional bit "from the pinks" It is all getting very dull - your constant posting of what you are and what you do. As for your similarly constant abrasive attitude towards me, the firm I now work with etc. How do you think your behaviour comes across to others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 CliveH - 2013-11-07 10:46 PM No - I am just bored with your inferiority complex requiring you to keep telling us how grand you are! The irony is that you, yet again, are doing exactly that which you try to make out I am doing by posting the occasional bit "from the pinks" It is all getting very dull - your constant posting of what you are and what you do. As for your similarly constant abrasive attitude towards me, the firm I now work with etc. How do you think your behaviour comes across to others? I think it comes across to others a just retribution for your extremely nasty, slimy and constant references to my mental health! It's a cheap and unworthy debating tactic! You reap what you sow! And can I remind you that I've been ignoring you, but this morning you couldn't resist another sad little attack with your reference to my bile bubbling! I think that you definitely reaped what you'd sown there! You'll learn one day! Now go to bed, you're up early in the morning remember! Lots to read and report on! (lol) (lol) (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted November 8, 2013 Author Share Posted November 8, 2013 The reference to bubbling bile carried no name Frank. But you seem to think that the cap fits - and you so easily slip it on. And yes - I do have lots to read and "report" on Would that you had the ability to do the same - you might be a happier person. *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 CliveH - 2013-11-08 9:42 AM The reference to bubbling bile carried no name Frank. But you seem to think that the cap fits - and you so easily slip it on. And yes - I do have lots to read and "report" on Would that you had the ability to do the same - you might be a happier person. *-) You lie so readily don't you? It's the profession of course, it comes easily! We all know for whom it was intended. Do you deny it? Come on, say that it wasn't aimed at me. Trouble is you're now in a bit of a hole aren't you? If you say that it wasn't aimed at me everyone will know what I know, that you're a born liar. If you say that it was aimed at me everyone will know that you're an obsessive trouble maker. Oh how you let yourself be sucked in eh? ;-) Silly, silly man. (lol) (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted November 8, 2013 Author Share Posted November 8, 2013 Oh it was aimed at you Frank - you cannot even read that correctly! (lol) (lol) It just did not mention you by name. If I go fishing - believe me it is targeted. You are just too easy to catch. It is part of your problem - sad that you do not recognise the real underlying issue you have. And that makes you dull. It is not really "fishing: - more like shooting fish in a barrel with you. *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 CliveH - 2013-11-08 10:54 AM Oh it was aimed at you Frank - you cannot even read that correctly! (lol) (lol) It just did not mention you by name. If I go fishing - believe me it is targeted. You are just too easy to catch. It is part of your problem - sad that you do not recognise the real underlying issue you have. And that makes you dull. It is not really "fishing: - more like shooting fish in a barrel with you. *-) So you admit to being an obsessive trouble maker who deliberately tries to ensnare someone into an argument? Quite an admission! (lol) Fish in a barrel? You're a sad and unsuccessful little minnow Clive and I'm getting sick of continually landing you, gasping and humiliated! When will you learn that you never win these arguments? You've neither the wit or the common sense to know when to stop! Now go away and read some pinks! ;-) I know now that whenever you accuse me of being 'dull' that you've reached the bottom of that barrel! ;- Dull eh? Beats obsessive and trouble making in my book any day!) You poor thing! (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted November 8, 2013 Author Share Posted November 8, 2013 No I think you are dull because you have tried to be clever over the subject of Autoenrolment - posted a lot of bollox - that is dangerously inaccurate as to what employers can and cannot do - cite the wrong percentages as to contributions - and each time you are corrected - you get more belligerent and start the same old same old Ad Homs. Exceedingly dull. Predictably dull. Dull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 CliveH - 2013-11-08 11:16 AM No I think you are dull because you have tried to be clever over the subject of Autoenrolment - posted a lot of bollox - that is dangerously inaccurate as to what employers can and cannot do - cite the wrong percentages as to contributions - and each time you are corrected - you get more belligerent and start the same old same old Ad Homs. Exceedingly dull. Predictably dull. Dull. I like your new word! ;-) It's nicer than the adjectives that describe you! (lol) And I didn't cite the wrong percentages. I cited the ones up to 2018. You are the one who omitted to cite the ones before then! Try to keep up! ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted November 8, 2013 Author Share Posted November 8, 2013 Had Enough - 2013-11-08 11:19 AM CliveH - 2013-11-08 11:16 AM No I think you are dull because you have tried to be clever over the subject of Autoenrolment - posted a lot of bollox - that is dangerously inaccurate as to what employers can and cannot do - cite the wrong percentages as to contributions - and each time you are corrected - you get more belligerent and start the same old same old Ad Homs. Exceedingly dull. Predictably dull. Dull. I cited the ones up to 2018. You are the one who omitted to cite the ones before then! Try to keep up! ;-) True - because they are the interim figures - you cited one set of interim figs as though they were the final ones. Which is hardly accurate tho Franky - is it now! The rest of what you said was dangerous bollox (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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