OttosMum Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Having regretted buying our brand new Dethleffs Esprit in September this year following the Glycol throwing itself all over the floor. Together with the electric heating not working because a lead hadn't been connected in the Alde heating, a speaker not working because of faulty wiring, we now have a leaking windscreen. Is it just our bad luck, or are Dethlefs really just bad quality? Alde are denying the boiler problem is their responsibility, as they didn't fit it. The fact the wire which wasn't connected was in the boiler doesn't seem to bother them. Their fitter couldn't come out for nearly 3 weeks which isn't a lot of use when you are 100 miles from home on your first trip out in a week old motorhome. Dethleffs are denying the glycol over the floor, which ruined the carpets, the dog beds and my slippers isn't their responsibility, or the non working speaker. Premier Motorhomes have reimbursed us for the dog beds etc.,, but our ruined holiday it appears is no one's responsibility. Yesterday we found water on the dashboard. We are going away on Wednesday to the Peak District for 2 nights, unless the wheels fall off, which with the current situation, wouldn't surprise me one little bit. I am completely and utterly hacked off with the way we are being treated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Your contract is with the supplying dealer, it is their responsibility to get it sorted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Take it back to Premier and Park it there, until ALL of your problems get sorted out. It is up to them to 'get onto Dethleffs case' not yours. Premier seem to be a good company (we have friends who have had 2 new Dethleff vans from them, and no complaints with their treatment of them.) Having the van 'put right' at this early stage should be a priority. Over a couple of days away. Seems European vans are not without their Quality control problems either. No, consolation I know, but most new vans, British or European seem to always have 'teething problems' after delivery. A 2 week away 'shakedown' Trip,using ALL of the facilities,close to the supplying dealer, should be 'the Norm' for anyone buying a New Van. A PDI (?) does not throw up all of the faults. Good luck Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OttosMum Posted November 10, 2013 Author Share Posted November 10, 2013 Ray, thanks for that. Premier I'm sure will sort it out, but it's frustrating that having spent such a large amount of money, we just seem to get one problem sorted when another one pops up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Wendy, it is important to ascertain if the water on the dashboard is really a windscreen leak or possibly condensation. Im not trying to belittle the issue, it must be a right pain to have, seemingly, one issue after another. However, we were on site in the spring next to a Dethleffs Globetrotter (£90k ish) and every moning the occupants were mopping what seemed an endless stream of water from the windscreen area. I assumed this to be condensation bit was surprised that a van with what must be excellent insulation was so damp. Good luck, keep the pressure on Premier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OttosMum Posted November 11, 2013 Author Share Posted November 11, 2013 Chris, it is definitely NOT condensation. The water is in one spot, the screen inside is dry, nothing running off it. I have to say in Dethleffs defence (much as I hate to admit it) the insulation is good. Now the Alde heating has been sorted by that Saint Martin at Whispaire in Romsey, the heating is good. More water has appeared this morning in the same spot. It is definitely a leak, and most likely from the screen.. This is following more rain over overnight, despite putting the nose up a bit to stop the rain from gathering on the roof. We are awaiting a response from Premier motorhomes to find out what they are going to do and more importantly how quickly. I have sent a message to Dethleffs in Germany, they chose to ignore my first one about the glycol incident. I hope they don't ignore this one. I am not in any mood tobe ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docted Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Wendy as has been said many times on the forum your contract is with the dealer not the maker. The people you paid your money to directly are resposible for any faults with the van. MOST, not all, factories will ignore your correspondence. Its the sale of goods act which applies products must be of a satisfactory standard and do what they are sold as ie fit for purpose. Docted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Not the first time I've heard of windscreen water leak problems with A Class motorhomes especially when the windscreen has to be replaced which is one of the reasons we stick to low profile with the standard well proved cad at the front. Never the less sorry to hear about your problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 docted - 2013-11-11 6:20 PM Wendy as has been said many times on the forum your contract is with the dealer not the maker. The people you paid your money to directly are resposible for any faults with the van. MOST, not all, factories will ignore your correspondence. Its the sale of goods act which applies products must be of a satisfactory standard and do what they are sold as ie fit for purpose. Docted AutoTrail prefer not to but if push comes to shove will will deal with problems directly and have a repair facility at their factory to do so. Waiting room not always that warm though but coffee was fine when we went to have problems with the entertainment system sorted out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Colin Leake - 2013-11-11 7:07 PM ..........which is one of the reasons we stick to low profile with the standard well proved cad at the front. You, Colin, a cad - never! ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OttosMum Posted November 12, 2013 Author Share Posted November 12, 2013 Well things have moved on. Poor Otto went back to Premier yet again yesterday. Sean spent a long time checking the screen, then crawling around on the roof. He came to the conclusion that the seam behind the cab was possibly not sealed completely!,, this worries very much. A new seal has been ordered, BUT what really bothers me, is how much damage has been done to the insulation. We have had Glycol over the floor, and now a leak in the roof. My confidence in the build of poor Otto is nil...... Considering this vehicle was only purchased in September and has only some 600 miles on the clock, most of which have been done between home in the deepest darkest New Forest and Chichester, it really beggars belief. Any ideas how we stand with regard to warranty.? I think we should be given a new vehicle which has been checked properly BEFORE it leaves the factory, and not dumped on a couple who only want to be able to enjoy a bit of freedom following a very harrowing few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Wendy, i hope that the cause has been found. Whether you are ok with the repair, only you can say. I would fully expect the dealer to give this repair the fullest of testing prior to getting you back to try Otto in anger. Re rejecting the vehicle, i believe that you, firstly, have to give the supplying dealer the opportunity to put things right to your satisfaction. On a positive side (less negative) you have purchased your van relatively local to where you live, many who have a number of problems to resolve have needed to travel hunders of mile to a dealer in another part of the country. A local dealer that is sympathetic to your cause is a real boon, try and keep Premier on your side if possible despite the misgivings with the van. Good luck to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 How absolutely infuriating for you, ( I think has been said) I'd park the bloody thing up on the dealers forecourt with a large sign in the windscreen saying " thinking of buying, have a word with me first" and explain to the dealer the only course of action you will accept is a full refund. (!) otherwise you'll be there every day. Your experience demonstrates once again the shoddy treatment that for many seems the norm, trading standards and not fit for purpose would be my route, plus a solicitors letter, I do hope you get a resolution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 OttosMum - 2013-11-12 7:38 AM Well things have moved on. Poor Otto went back to Premier yet again yesterday. Sean spent a long time checking the screen, then crawling around on the roof. He came to the conclusion that the seam behind the cab was possibly not sealed completely!,, this worries very much. A new seal has been ordered, BUT what really bothers me, is how much damage has been done to the insulation. We have had Glycol over the floor, and now a leak in the roof. My confidence in the build of poor Otto is nil...... Considering this vehicle was only purchased in September and has only some 600 miles on the clock, most of which have been done between home in the deepest darkest New Forest and Chichester, it really beggars belief. Any ideas how we stand with regard to warranty.? I think we should be given a new vehicle which has been checked properly BEFORE it leaves the factory, and not dumped on a couple who only want to be able to enjoy a bit of freedom following a very harrowing few years. This is very disappointing for you, and of course should never happen. However, as motorhomes are largely hand build, it is unfortunately not that uncommon for defects to be discovered, wherever they are built, whoever sells them. Dethleffs are a well regarded manufacturer, and I believe still the largest seller in the Scandinavian market which, bearing in mind Scandinavian winters, must say something for their general quality. Premier have a good reputation for customer service, and have sold Dethleffs vans for years, so also have good links to the factory. If it is within their capability, I'm sure they will persist to achieve a proper repair that will be as good as a factory job. So, in terms of manufacturer and dealer, you are in a generally good place to get the problem sorted out. I would not expect this leak to have caused further damage as, AFAIK, the insulants used are closed cell, so do not absorb water. If it is the windscreen, it will have to be removed and re-sealed. This is not especially difficult, and even for a A Class van is familiar territory for windscreen specialists as many buses and coaches have construction similar to A Class vans. However, leak tracing is difficult and time consuming, as water seldom emerges close to its point of entry. I assume the earlier leak involving Glycol was from the heater matrix, and should be a Dethleffs problem that Premier should be sorting out with them. It may be that the matrix was defective, more probable that heater tubes were intercepted by Dethleffs during conversion and inadequately sealed subsequently. However, your point of contact is Premier. Denial of liability is nonsense. Fiat/Dethleffs made it, Preimer sold it. Someone goofed, or there would be no leak. Premier must put you back into the position, vis a vis spoiled posessions, that you were in before the leak. With any new van, it is wise to take it away for a week or so for evaluation, preferably to a location near to the selling dealer, and to put everything through its paces, as well as to drive it around as often as possible, and monitor it for potential defects. You may feel you should not have to do this, and it should be fault free "straight from the tin", but they are relatively complex vehicles and experience says that there is ample scope for defects to have crept in. As has been said above, it is essential to deal with any manufacturing defects via Premier Motorhomes, and not to try to invoke the warrainty direct with the manufacturer. The only exception to this rule would be mechaincal failure of a Fiat part, for which you would probably be better off approaching a Fiat Commercial dealer, ideally one of their camper specialist garages. I do not think this would amount to anything like adequate grounds for rejecting the vehicle as unfit for purpose. Indeed, as I understand rejection, you will already be deemed to have accepted the vehicle by having used it. Besides which, the equivalent of one burst pipe and a smallish leak to not make the van unfit for use. A huge disappointment, and an equal irritant, yes - with which I greatly sympathise - but what you have is an excellent motorhome in need of minor repair. I would say maintain your relationship with Premier, who seem to be doing their best to rectify matters, and keep them on-side. They will be the key to your satisfaction. Once put right, I'm sure you will go on to enjoy many holidays in this van. As I'm sure you know, Dethleffs are based in Isny-im-Allgau, a little NE from Lindau (which is at the eastern end of Lake Constance). So, if all else fails, it would not be too difficult to take the van back to the factory for repair. I believe this is possible, and that the factory customer service facility is excellent. Try not to be despondent, as I'm sure all will be rectified. On a more optimistic note, you have found the faults early, so that they can be fixed early. This long cool summer and wet autumn has allowed you to detect a leak that may, under different weather conditions, have persisted for a long time before a similar wet spell made it manifest. If the rest of the van is OK, all you have suffered is a couple of relatively minor (though intensely annoying) defects that should be easily and completely repaired. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OttosMum Posted November 12, 2013 Author Share Posted November 12, 2013 Hi all, well the joint was re-sealed and a de-humidifier left in all night. We were told it was ok, and Otto had been checked with a damp meter...... We are off to Chatsworth House for a couple of nights, so this will test the seal. I actually feel very sorry for all the Peeps at Premier, because they have to sort out the shoddy workmanship that is at the moment Dethleffs . We have decided that if more damp appears, it will go back to the dealers, they can have the keys and fight with Dethleffs until we are supplied with a motorhome that is fit for purpose. On an ending note, on the way home my husband fueled Otto up for our trip, and the barrel came out with the key of the fuel tank. We are waiting to hear if that's Dethleffs again or if we are now also fighting with Fiat.... Deep joy. Wish us luck, don't forget to wave if you see a Dethleffs Esprit called Otto heading north tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Good old Kirby................can always be relied on to use hundreds of words, when a few would do. :-S As for a brand new vehicle leaking from a roof join and not causing the brand new owner anything other than ongoing stress and worry that it should happen again.................and that it has not already done unseen damage wouldn't be for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 1footinthegrave - 2013-11-12 1:24 PM Good old Kirby................can always be relied on to use hundreds of words, when a few would do. :-S ....yes, Mike, but unlike those from many others, they are exceedingly good words. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OttosMum Posted November 12, 2013 Author Share Posted November 12, 2013 Brian, unfortunately you didn't take in we have only owned this van since September, the Glycol leaked from the bleed nipples for no apparent reason. The boiler fault was a lead internally, not fitted by the Alde engineer who made it in their factory. Whilst we appreciate, no one has died, we didn't buy this van to get this amount of hassle. Premier are struggling with Dethleffs quality at the moment, our van isn't the only one with issues. This is our third motorhome, and second Dethleffs , we would not have even considered a second one, had our first one, which we bought secondhand had this amount of issues. Our Burstner, purchased from new, gave us no issues, other then the fuel cap fell apart. I don't see why we should be accepting of bad workmanship or quality of product. If this was a luxury car, it wouldn't even been considered that we would have to wait for a manufacturer to get to affect a repair as when it suited them I worked for an Independent vehicle breakdown/recovery firm for nearly 20 years, so know about vehicles of all makes and types. A vehicle, however much you love it, will break down, some idiot will drive into you, or bash you with their trolley in the supermarket. Anyway, we plan to have our few days away in peace and tranquility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Yes, I did note that you had only had the van since September, and also that you had suffered other problems with it. From what you say it seems Dethleffs, for whatever reason, have quality issues to resolve. I can only say that these issues must have arisen relatively recently, because they have always enjoyed a good reputtaion for their products. No comfort to you, I accept. They all have their moments, and folk have posted in similar vein on here about almost every known make of van. I met a very disgruntled man on a French site whose front, overcab, rooflight had flown off his Burstner in a rainstorm, leaving a gaping hole. I'm not defending, just stating fact. No comfort to you: no joy to me. And no-one buya any van, at any price, to have hassle. You have been extremely unlucky, and are obvioulsy cross. I get that. However, the real point I was trying gently to make, is that tackling the manufacturer directly under the warranty is unlikely to be in your favour, or to get you very far. Premier, with whom I also sympathise, supplied the van and they are the only player in the field with whom you have a legal relationship. It is tough on the dealer when the manufacturers cock up and the dealer has to make amends. However, they do get paid by the manufacturer for warranty work (though not as much as they would like), and they have made money on the sale of the van to you, so it is not as though they are acting out of charity. In part, I was anxious that the advice to virtually start a war with the dealer might sway your attitude from the reasonable, though palpably irritated, approach you have been taking with them. The defects are not their fault, so the advice to park you van on their forecourt with notices about its quality, and so alienate your best ally, is foolish beyond belief. You are where you are, as you know all too well, and you are sadly going to need a deal of forbearance and patience until all issues are satisfactorily resolved, which I hope and believe they will be. And no, I'm not suggesting that you should accept poor workmanship, or poor service. Indeed, it seems you have not, and that the dealer is doing what he should to make amends. These vehicles are expensive, but the luxury is only skin deep. Underneath they are just humble commercial vans, not Rolls Royces. Luxury cars do not necessarily get repaired at the snap of someone's fingers: owners sometimes have to resort to loan vehicles while theirs is fixed. By contrast, generally, a loan motorhome is just not practical, so in the end one has to accept some delay while parts are sourced and fixed. None of us likes it, but we all have to live with it. Not accept it, please note, but live with it. It does none of us any good to send our blood pressure through the roof, and has little affect on anyone else either. This is an industry with many flaws, but it is the only industry that fulfills our desire for these vehicles. The only real way to avoid the resulting problems is to give up on motorhomes, or build one's own. As before, good luck, and I hope you enjoy a peaceful and trouble-free break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 OttosMum - 2013-11-12 1:22 PM..................On an ending note, on the way home my husband fueled Otto up for our trip, and the barrel came out with the key of the fuel tank. We are waiting to hear if that's Dethleffs again or if we are now also fighting with Fiat.... Deep joy...................... No, A Class filler caps are supplied by the converter, so it is a Dethleffs matter. Premier again, I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 If only we were so understanding and reasonable as Kirby I'm sure crap vehicles and giving the end user a load of grief would be a thing of the past, some chance. (!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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