Possl Vans 2014

[Robinhood]

pepe63 - 2013-11-14 9:48 AM

 

Now I like what Derek U's brochure/Googling says.....

 

and I like what Robinh's brochure says....

 

But which is best...? :-S

 

 

There's only one way to find out.....

 

 

 

 

....I suspect that both Derek and I think that neither of them are....... ;-)

 

 

....and of course, there's the extra 1kg for the larger decals :-D

[bolero boy]

Just wondering if right hand drive Possl/globecar vans have the sliding door on the Uk offside? The obvious answer, and my assumption, was 'yes'.

However, ive just got a bit confused when looking at this Adria Twin from Geoff Cox http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-2014-Adria-Twin-640-SLX-/231094627094 whichis right hand drive, right hand door, and this one from Webbs, which is clearly righthand drive, left hand door http://www.webbsmotorcaravans.co.uk/motorcaravanDetails.php?ID=1784.

Confused of Somerset. ;-)

[Guest JudgeMental]

derek pringle - 2013-11-14 9:36 AM

 

Hi Eddie,

Would Air Assist Suspension help with your payload and also comfy up the ride a little?

 

good spending

derek

 

probably, and a better fit if you find them necessary. Would only be needed if carrying a scooter I would think...

 

I thought the uprated springs may be OTT and asked my friendly German, and he says

 

"They make hard ride!! u dummkopf englander!" :D

 

I have the 2014 PDF pricelist, if anyone wants it drop me a PM with email address

[Derek Uzzell]

JudgeMental - 2013-11-14 8:51 AM

 

Derek..have you a link to where're you compared the weight info from please.

 

So when they say 3035kg, that is the MIRO, as they don't make this very clear. The roadcruisers all have online brochure MIRO of 2995kg. Find it hard to believe the maxi hight top R evoloution model only 40 kg more....

 

Do you think this with full water or 20 kg as Robin suggested

 

Also are the springs worth ordering, or will they make ride hard...maybe air ride a better option, after living with van for a while......that for Nick as well if he looks in:-D

 

I'm not really sure what the '+KG' weights in the Possl/Globecar catalogues represent, but it will certainly be the case that (with everything else equal) the weight of a model will vary according to the motor fitted to it.

 

Having rummaged through 'foreign' Ducato catalogues, I'm now (reasonably) confident that a Ducato with a 2.3litre motor (130bhp or 150bhp) will weigh 15kg more than one with the 2.0litre motor, while a Ducato with the 3.0litre motor will weigh 50kg more than one with a 2.3litre motor. Those figures differ from what I suggested earlier, but are, in fact, closer to what's in the Possl/Globecar catalogues.

 

The German-language Possl catalogue says that the "Masse in fahrbereitem Zustand" (Mass in Running Order) of a Roadcruiser Revolution is 3035kg and (as you say) other Roadcruisers have a quoted MIRO of 2995kg. The height increase of a Roadcruiser Revolution over the 'ordinary' Roadcruiser is only 1180mm, so the quoted 40kg increase in MIRO seems OK to me. After all, 40kg represents an awful lot of thin sheet metal.

 

I think it was lennyhb that suggested that the MIRO might include only a very limited allowance for fresh-water and that Robin thought otherwise. I can't find anything to indicate what formula is used when calculating a Possl's MIRO, but (like Robn) I would have thought an allowance for a minimum 90%-full fresh-water tank would be included.

 

I can't advise on uprating the rear springs. If I bought a Globecar Campscout I wouldn't specify them as, if the ride they produced was harsh, I couldn't do anything about it. I'd go for standard rear springs and (as Derk Pringle suggests) add air-assistance (eg. Air-Ride) to the rear axle if it proved necessary or I believed it would be beneficial.

 

[Robinhood]

.....and none of the longer/heavier 'vans are (according to both the Possl and Globecar 2014 pricelists) available with the lower output engine (Citroen or Fiat), so it would be logical (wouldn't it) to quote the MIRO on the 'base' spec (2.2 130 Citroen/2.3 130 Fiat).

 

So, as the Fiat 130/150 engines are the same weight (Fiat Data), what is the 20kg? (I think Derek earlier implied it may be the difference between the weight of a Citroen 2.2, and a Fiat 2.3, but the Pricelist data as presented doesn't support this.

 

 

(?) :'(

[colin]

bolero boy - 2013-11-14 1:17 PM

 

Just wondering if right hand drive Possl/globecar vans have the sliding door on the Uk offside? The obvious answer, and my assumption, was 'yes'.

However, ive just got a bit confused when looking at this Adria Twin from Geoff Cox http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-2014-Adria-Twin-640-SLX-/231094627094 whichis right hand drive, right hand door, and this one from Webbs, which is clearly righthand drive, left hand door http://www.webbsmotorcaravans.co.uk/motorcaravanDetails.php?ID=1784.

Confused of Somerset. ;-)

All except one (uk only layout) have a rhd cab with lhd rear. AFAIK.

[Derek Uzzell]

Robinhood - 2013-11-14 9:28 AM

 

Derek Uzzell - 2013-11-14 8:31 AM

 

There are anomalies in the price-lists. For example, the 'weight penalty' for opting for electric mirrors is quoted as 0.2kg (which sounds right) in the options list, but 2kg (which sounds heavy) in the "All-in Pack" list.

 

 

...Mine shows 2kg and 1.5kg respectively (so consistent if you excuse rounding errors)....

 

 

I have some Globecar English-language price-list pages I downloaded from somewhere, and these do indeed show 2kg and 1.5kg for electric mirrors. However, the downloadable 2014 German- and French-language Possl/Globecar price-lists all show the 0.2kg and 2kg figures I mentioned. I don't know which are right. Would electric mirrors add 1.5kg? Doesn't much matter - just irritates!!!

 

I agree that with your last posting's observation. It would be logical to give a model's MIRO based on the weight of the 'basic' version and then show any additional weight values resulting from engine and/or chassis changes. Possl/Globecar may feel they have done this in their price-lists, but I don't think it's made clear.

 

I wasn't suggesting that the 20kg difference related to Citroen 2.2litre and Fiat 2.3litre motors, but to the difference between the (equal) weight of both those motors and the weight of the 2.0litre Fiat motor that's available for LHD models.

 

The quoted MIRO of a 2014 Fiat-based Globecar Globescout is 2850kg. Besides the 2.0litre motor, a Globescout is available with a 2.3litre motor or a 3.0litre motor. The Globecar catalogue seems to suggest that there's no "+KG" weight addition if a 2.3litre motor is opted for instead of the 2.0litre powerplant (though this conflicts with Fiat's Ducato data) and that there's just a 50kg weight addition if the 3.0litre motor is chosen. This will be academic for people buying RHD as the 2.0litre motor won't be an option, but it might matter (though probably not much) for buyers of LHD models. What can definitely be said is that, if one opts for the 3.0litre motor, it will add 50kg to the MIRO of a model with the 2.3litre motor.

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

It would be an interesting exercise to ask the average bloke what his payload is, I've been at this lark for more years that I care to remember, but of all the conversations I've ever had "payload" has never ever come up, and I've never had a clue about mine, (!) mind you I don't lug everything bar the kitchen sink around like many do (!)

[Robinhood]

....interesting to compare the details with the Hymer options list for the Hymervan.

 

This implies (somewhat more clearly than the Possl/Globecar documentation) the following:

 

3.3t to 3.5t chassis +20kg

 

2.3/130 to 2.3/150 +20kg

 

2.3/130 to 2.3/180 +50kg

 

Which is consistent with Eddies original engine-upgrade quote (+20kg) but doesn't appear to agree with the Fiat data I can find.

 

(unfortunately the smaller engine isn't used, and electric mirrors are standard, so I can't cross validate those figures ;-) )

 

There is a problem with the Hymer data as well, however, in that it uses the above engine weights for one range, and then uses an uplift of 70kg for the larger engine in the data for the next range (instead of 50kg, and which simply looks like a drafting error to me).

 

All very confusing, bring on the weighbridge!!.

[bolero boy]

colin - 2013-11-14 3:21 PM

 

bolero boy - 2013-11-14 1:17 PM

 

Just wondering if right hand drive Possl/globecar vans have the sliding door on the Uk offside? The obvious answer, and my assumption, was 'yes'.

However, ive just got a bit confused when looking at this Adria Twin from Geoff Cox http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-2014-Adria-Twin-640-SLX-/231094627094 whichis right hand drive, right hand door, and this one from Webbs, which is clearly righthand drive, left hand door http://www.webbsmotorcaravans.co.uk/motorcaravanDetails.php?ID=1784.

Confused of Somerset. ;-)

All except one (uk only layout) have a rhd cab with lhd rear. AFAIK.

Thanks, Colin. That would mean that the Geoff Cox van (new 640 SLX) is a UK only layout? Not sure.

The Adria website http://www.adria-mobil.com/int-en/2014/vans/ has graphics showing the whole range with SLD on the right. Perhaps the customer has a choice?

[Guest JudgeMental]

Thanks Derek/Robin for your interest...At least I now know the hightop weight not such an issue, as I thought..and after seeing Hugh's swing out rack, a bit happier with that option as well...so a wider choice of vans available...decisions..decisions:-D

 

I'm swayed towards the 636 FR (+busbiker) which i fancied since it came out, simply because it has a much more open feel, and looks a bit more comfortable...

[Guest JudgeMental]

I have been busy since I returned from Spain last week harassing some German La Strada & Westfalia dealers, and not having much luck! they are simply not used to dealing with export customers and wont budge on price, even if they are 2013 show models...Basically its a bit like going into a RR dealers and arguing about the price.. Thats the kind of reception you get! :D

 

funny but at shows like Dusseldorf its real easy to do a deal and get a great discount....

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

JudgeMental - 2013-11-14 4:33 PM

 

Thanks Derek/Robin for your interest...At least I now know the hightop weight not such an issue, as I thought..and after seeing Hugh's swing out rack, a bit happier with that option as well...so a wider choice of vans available...decisions..decisions:-D

 

I'm swayed towards the 636 FR (+busbiker) which i fancied since it came out, simply because it has a much more open feel, and looks a bit more comfortable...

 

You'll be back in a coach-built before you know it, ask Henry :D

 

Must say that hand wash basin looks a bit of a challenge with the bog in the way. ;-) :D

[lennyhb]

1footinthegrave - 2013-11-14 5:52 PM

 

You'll be back in a coach-built before you know it, ask Henry :D

 

 

He's keeping very quiet about going to look at a Hymer Exsis (lol)

[bolero boy]

lennyhb - 2013-11-14 6:10 PM

 

1footinthegrave - 2013-11-14 5:52 PM

 

You'll be back in a coach-built before you know it, ask Henry :D

 

 

He's keeping very quiet about going to look at a Hymer Exsis (lol)

Is he now? Thats a bit sneaky. I thought he had got out of his PVC and into something else but never found out what.

Henry, what are you driving these days?

[Derek Uzzell]

Robinhood - 2013-11-14 4:04 PM

 

....interesting to compare the details with the Hymer options list for the Hymervan.

 

This implies (somewhat more clearly than the Possl/Globecar documentation) the following:

 

3.3t to 3.5t chassis +20kg

 

2.3/130 to 2.3/150 +20kg

 

2.3/130 to 2.3/180 +50kg

 

Which is consistent with Eddies original engine-upgrade quote (+20kg) but doesn't appear to agree with the Fiat data I can find.

 

(unfortunately the smaller engine isn't used, and electric mirrors are standard, so I can't cross validate those figures ;-) )

 

There is a problem with the Hymer data as well, however, in that it uses the above engine weights for one range, and then uses an uplift of 70kg for the larger engine in the data for the next range (instead of 50kg, and which simply looks like a drafting error to me).

 

All very confusing, bring on the weighbridge!!.

 

OK, let's accept that opting for a 3.5t chassis for a model built as standard on a 3.3t chassis incurs a 20kg weight penalty - that's not an unreasonable assumption. However, these 20kg "+KG" additions also seem to to carry through to Possl/Globecar models built on a 3.5t Maxi chassis.

 

I'm uncomfortable with the idea there's a significant weight difference between 130bhp and 148bhp versions of the Fiat 2.3litre motor. As lennyhb said earlier, the 148bhp motor has a different turbo but that alone shouldn't add 20kg to the unit. I've looked at Carthago brochures and a 'nil' weight penalty is shown for upgrading from the Multijet 130 to the Multijet 150, while a 50kg penalty is quoted for upgrading from a 130 to a 3.0litre 180. I've also looked at Pilote's website with the same results - no change in a model's MIRO when there's a 130bhp-148bhp upgrade.

 

(Think I'll get seriously drunk tonight...)

[Robinhood]

Derek Uzzell - 2013-11-14 6:42 PM

 

I'm uncomfortable with the idea there's a significant weight difference between 130bhp and 148bhp versions of the Fiat 2.3litre motor.....

 

As I alluded to before, Fiat certainly don't officially support that either.

 

Fiat technical data for all versions of the Ducato show no "on the road" weight difference between a 130 and a 150 engine vehicle.

 

Have one (or more) for me. :-|

 

 

[Guest JudgeMental]

bolero boy - 2013-11-14 6:16 PM

 

lennyhb - 2013-11-14 6:10 PM

 

1footinthegrave - 2013-11-14 5:52 PM

 

You'll be back in a coach-built before you know it, ask Henry :D

 

 

He's keeping very quiet about going to look at a Hymer Exsis (lol)

Is he now? Thats a bit sneaky. I thought he had got out of his PVC and into something else but never found out what.

 

Ha ha ha...rubbish! I will admit in a moment of weakness I did consider an Adria compact SL, but soon sobered up! I use my van regularly, and do I really want to go back to a camper spending most of its life on my hard stand..and all the hassle cleaning the black streaks, yearly damp checks..etc...etc..

 

Not on your life! :-D

 

[colin]

bolero boy - 2013-11-14 4:25 PM

 

colin - 2013-11-14 3:21 PM

 

bolero boy - 2013-11-14 1:17 PM

 

Just wondering if right hand drive Possl/globecar vans have the sliding door on the Uk offside? The obvious answer, and my assumption, was 'yes'.

However, ive just got a bit confused when looking at this Adria Twin from Geoff Cox http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-2014-Adria-Twin-640-SLX-/231094627094 whichis right hand drive, right hand door, and this one from Webbs, which is clearly righthand drive, left hand door http://www.webbsmotorcaravans.co.uk/motorcaravanDetails.php?ID=1784.

Confused of Somerset. ;-)

All except one (uk only layout) have a rhd cab with lhd rear. AFAIK.

Thanks, Colin. That would mean that the Geoff Cox van (new 640 SLX) is a UK only layout? Not sure.

The Adria website http://www.adria-mobil.com/int-en/2014/vans/ has graphics showing the whole range with SLD on the right. Perhaps the customer has a choice?

 

My answer refers to Globecar, not Adria

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Rapido Van Series V56 looks a nice bit of gear, although you cannot double it up as a builders skip, mind you a tow bar and a cheapo trailer would sort that little matter out.................................and it has a spacious wash room. ;-)

 

Oh I forgot, you hate all things French. :-S

[colin]

1footinthegrave - 2013-11-14 7:18 PM

 

Rapido Van Series V56 looks a nice bit of gear, although you cannot double it up as a builders skip, mind you a tow bar and a cheapo trailer would sort that little matter out.................................and it has a spacious wash room. ;-)

 

Oh I forgot, you hate all things French. :-S

 

The most spacious washroom award must now go to WildAx, saw the prototype and can only guess it's designed for football team communal showers. 8-)

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Err, cough, splutter, err, British and Eddie, don't think so................. :D

[colin]

1footinthegrave - 2013-11-14 7:31 PM

 

Err, cough, splutter, err, British and Eddie, don't think so................. :D

 

Ah, but will the lure of having room to shower with all his Thai 'friends' change his mind :D

[lennyhb]

If I ever change to one of those funny little PVC things it would have to be a Font Vendome, they really seem good at making use off every inch of space usable.

[Derek Uzzell]

colin - 2013-11-14 7:13 PM

 

bolero boy - 2013-11-14 4:25 PM

 

colin - 2013-11-14 3:21 PM

 

bolero boy - 2013-11-14 1:17 PM

 

Just wondering if right hand drive Possl/globecar vans have the sliding door on the Uk offside? The obvious answer, and my assumption, was 'yes'.

However, ive just got a bit confused when looking at this Adria Twin from Geoff Cox http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-2014-Adria-Twin-640-SLX-/231094627094 whichis right hand drive, right hand door, and this one from Webbs, which is clearly righthand drive, left hand door http://www.webbsmotorcaravans.co.uk/motorcaravanDetails.php?ID=1784.

Confused of Somerset. ;-)

All except one (uk only layout) have a rhd cab with lhd rear. AFAIK.

Thanks, Colin. That would mean that the Geoff Cox van (new 640 SLX) is a UK only layout? Not sure.

The Adria website http://www.adria-mobil.com/int-en/2014/vans/ has graphics showing the whole range with SLD on the right. Perhaps the customer has a choice?

 

My answer refers to Globecar, not Adria

 

It used to be possible to obtain certain Globecar models in RHD form with the sliding-door on the UK-nearside, but I'm doubtful this is still the case.

 

There are examples here of 2ndhand Transit-based Trendscouts with the sliding-door on the left

 

http://archive.motorhomesforsale.co.uk/globecar-599-ekb--unregistered--fi-cs406327.aspx

 

and this example of a 2011 Ducato-based Globestar 599 EKB has a UK-nearside sliding-door

 

http://www.motorhomes.mobi/Motorhomes/tabid/95/ItemID/23872/Motorhome/Globecar-599-EKB/Default.aspx

 

The Globestar 599 EKB targeted the UK market and it wiil be seen from the layout shown here

 

http://www.globecarmotorhomes.co/uploads/files/Globecar_599_EKB.pdf

 

that the symmetrical positioning of the 'lounge' seats means that it would be straightforward to swap them over to cope with the sliding-door being on either side - in fact, the layout drawing shows the door on the UK nearside.

 

There's no direct equivalent to the Globestar 599 EKB in the 2014 Globecar (or Possl) range and none of the 2014 layouts has a similar symmetrical seating arrangement. To provide a UK-nearside sliding door it would be necessary to produce a mirror-image revision of a large percentage of the habitation-area layout designed for LHD versions. I can't see that happening.

 

If you really want to know what the Globecar position is, you'd be best to ask a UK agent - but I'm pretty sure having a UK-nearside door on a current Globecar is a non-starter.

 

(I've a vague recollection of reading (reasonably recently) about someone specifying a UK-nearside sliding-door on a Continental European-built RHD PVC and, not long before the planned delivery date, being told that the vehicle had been built with a UK-offside door. I think the motorhome was a Globecar.)