Daytime running lights

[amcook999btinternet]

When the front daylight running lamps are on ( engine running ) the rear lights are not lit.

Is this correct?

The only time the rear lights are on is when the headlights are switched on i.e. it does not seem possible to have the sidelights on when the engine is running!

The lighting switch on the stalk has 2 positions "O" and headlight symbol.

A parking provision is available by turning off ignition and turning to "headlight" position and then to "O"

The combination of running lights and sidelights appears not to be possible.

[gocro]

The daytime running lights DRLs are wired by a relay to come on with engine start indepenant of the light switches and dim or extinguish when the side or headlights are on.All the bits are on e-bay.

[david lloyd]

Yes, on our 2012 model ducato there is no 'sidelight' position on the stalk. You either have all the lights on (headlights/sidelights/rear lights) or not on.

 

David

[Rayjsj]

On a Fiat Ducato 62 plate, (prior to the 'LED jobbies') you can turn OFF the 'Daytime running lights' with the vehicle computer, then you either get Headlights + rearlights or nothing, unless you are parked up with the engine off. Then you get sidelights.

As I am not a fan of 'Daytime Running lights' (unless the weather is overcast) I have mine turned off.

Ray

[bolero boy]

Im a big fan of drivers having some lights on during most winter driving. Poor light, damp conditions etc combine to make vehicles difficult to see. Side lights are a waste of time.

A lengthy trip in wet weather back along the M3/A303 on Monday bore witness to around 20% of vehicles not displaying any sort of light at 4 in the afternoon with the rain streaming down.

Te point of bright lights in conditions like these are for other drivers to see you, not for you to see where you are going. Anyone coming up behind you without lights will get lost in a cloud of spray and gloom and there is a chance you could pull out in front of them.

Unfortunately, neither the law on lighting nor common sense seems to be sufficient to get drivers to show themselves. For this reason i am in favour of daylight running lights.

[Brian Kirby]

bolero boy - 2013-11-15 5:36 PM

 

Im a big fan of drivers having some lights on during most winter driving. Poor light, damp conditions etc combine to make vehicles difficult to see. Side lights are a waste of time.

A lengthy trip in wet weather back along the M3/A303 on Monday bore witness to around 20% of vehicles not displaying any sort of light at 4 in the afternoon with the rain streaming down.

Te point of bright lights in conditions like these are for other drivers to see you, not for you to see where you are going. Anyone coming up behind you without lights will get lost in a cloud of spray and gloom and there is a chance you could pull out in front of them.

Unfortunately, neither the law on lighting nor common sense seems to be sufficient to get drivers to show themselves. For this reason i am in favour of daylight running lights.

Can't disagree with that. Also, as more vehicles are equipped with them, those without become much harder to spot, especially under the conditions you describe. They also help in strong light, if driving into/out of deep shadow on tree-lined roads. A further point is that I understand part of the reason for their introduction was to make vehicles more readily visible to pedestrians.

[Will86]

As a now aging pedestrian they are a good idea

[Dave225]

Having had them on my last 3 vehicles (Volvo) I like them. They also allow me to not have to remember to switch them on in tunnels, or poor visibility. We used to get a good few flashes especially in France, but as even there many new vehicles have them, the issue has disappeared. The only snag i see is that when it is dark you forget to actually turn on the lights and suddenly find the main beam does not work. The other snag I am guilty off, is that when I get home I forget to turn them off again. Fortunately the car does this for me.

[George Collings]

If David Loyd vehicle is typical there appears to be a conflict with the Road Vehicle Lighting Regs 1989.

 

A parked vehicle must be able to display its obligatory marker lights ( front and rear) during the hours of darkeness. i.e. the sidelights. Regs 24 and 25

 

Reg 27 makes it an offence for the headlamps to be lit when parked.

 

Unless there has ben an an ammendment to The RVLR that I cannot find it appears someone has dropped a clanger.

[Brian Kirby]

I think David's statement relates only to when the engine is running, George. With the engine off, if the lights are turned on only the parking lights come on. At least ours do.

[George Collings]

Brian, that makes more sense but why not run the tail lights anyway, it might just wake up the daydreaming driver behind.

 

I understand daytime running lights were promoted by countries like Norway and Sweden where winter days are very short and gloomy. I saw some calculations about the cost of extra fuel that would be burnt powering millions of bulbs in the mediterranean countries and how many lives and money would be saved.

I memory serves corectly the conclusion was that the mony could have better been spent on other measures but apparently the legistlative juggernaugt brakes were seized up.

 

 

[Gravemaurice]

Daytime running lights are a safety feature for pedestrians.

 

They don't light up anything at the back.

 

Most people unfortunately seem to be driving this winter in weather of all sorts without realising they have no rear lights on when they use the daytime running lights.

 

They are not law (yet) so all new vehicles don't have them.

 

[dakota]

Rayjsj - 2013-11-15 5:25 PM

 

On a Fiat Ducato 62 plate, (prior to the 'LED jobbies') you can turn OFF the 'Daytime running lights' with the vehicle computer, then you either get Headlights + rearlights or nothing, unless you are parked up with the engine off. Then you get sidelights.

As I am not a fan of 'Daytime Running lights' (unless the weather is overcast) I have mine turned off.

Ray

 

My understanding is if DTRLs are fitted to the vehicle , they have to be used by law , im sure ive read that somewhere , and all new vehicles will be fitted with tham ,but theyre mainly LEDs anyway so hardly any battery drain so no drain on the planets resources , and they are used so other drivers can see you whatever the weather conditions , and apparently have saved millions of lives in other countries , and they do work independent of the rest of the lighting system and dont include rear lights . I also reckon theyre a brilliant idea , a very good safety feature and they should never be turned off .

[George Collings]

Millions- I think not. Hundreds perhaps. but more likely dozens. Don't mix up one road safety measure with hundreds of others that have contributed to a massive drop in road casualties. Stronger passenger compartments with crush zones and softer fronts to safeguard pedestians, ABS, seat belts air bags etc.

 

Some of the stabilty control systems worry me. A driver that thinks they solve all his problems and arrives at a bend to fast to actually get around will still fly off the road or loose control and collide with other road users.

 

 

[Rayjsj]

dakota - 2013-11-15 9:35 PM

 

Rayjsj - 2013-11-15 5:25 PM

 

On a Fiat Ducato 62 plate, (prior to the 'LED jobbies') you can turn OFF the 'Daytime running lights' with the vehicle computer, then you either get Headlights + rearlights or nothing, unless you are parked up with the engine off. Then you get sidelights.

As I am not a fan of 'Daytime Running lights' (unless the weather is overcast) I have mine turned off.

Ray

 

My understanding is if DTRLs are fitted to the vehicle , they have to be used by law , im sure ive read that somewhere , and all new vehicles will be fitted with tham ,but theyre mainly LEDs anyway so hardly any battery drain so no drain on the planets resources , and they are used so other drivers can see you whatever the weather conditions , and apparently have saved millions of lives in other countries , and they do work independent of the rest of the lighting system and dont include rear lights . I also reckon theyre a brilliant idea , a very good safety feature and they should never be turned off .

 

Sorry, I don't agree, I already said mine are NOT the LED ones, otherwise I might have them on, (as they don't Dazzle, like Some do.). AND i put my Headlights/side marker lights/rear lights ON when the light gets bad, OR if it's raining or even drizzling. I just prefere to choose when I have my lights on, and while I have the choice, by programming the vehicle computer, I have mine OFF. Ray

 

( I hate seeing more and more Cars with their lights on in Broad Day/sunlight, it make the motorcycles harder to spot).

[bolero boy]

But Ray, surely you dont want to be hit by any vehicle, car or motorbike? If a car doesnt have its lights on and you pull out in front of it, you'd be the first to complain (if able).

We cant have cars going around in the dark just so that we can pick out motorbikes....they can all kill.

Id rather think there was a vehicle there, because i saw a light, than not see one that turned out to be there ;-)

[George Collings]

I am with Ray.

Along with the young and very old motorcyclists make up a disproportionate percentage of road casualties.

Kids run into roads without thinking, running lights will have little effect for them , The elderly don't see or hear to well and are often in pain affecting their judgement, running lights might assist them.

 

Motorcyclists because of their small head on profile are easily missed by other road users. That why they run with headlights on. I have dealt with a number of collision where vehicles have been driven out of junctions into the path of motorcyclist. It will be harder to spot them because of all vehicles eventually getting running lights and I anticipatesome probably small rise in the motorcycle casualty rate.

[Tony Jones]

It saddens me that drivers either ARE so stupid, or are ASSUMED to be so stupid, that they can't use common sense to turn the right lights on for the conditions, but have to have it done automatically.

 

Personally, I've ALWAYS turned headlights on in poor visibility (not sidelights - they're neither use nor ornament). It's nice that the headlights on my Mk7 Transit can be set to "Auto" so they come on quickly when I enter a tunnel, but I quite often switch that feature off so I can use them in other kinds of bad visibility. If I had the misfortune to be stuck with a vehicle with permanent "DRLs" I'd be looking for a way to disconnect them!

 

Front foglights I only find useful on the rare occasions when the fog is so thick that headlights just light it up, giving no help in forward visibility. My response then is to use the foglights WITHOUT headlights, and slow down drastically so I can stop within my visibility.

 

Rear foglights, on the other hand, are useful in lots of different low-vis conditions, including rain. Just look ahead on a rainy motorway, and see how much sooner you see a vehicle with them on! But sadly the powers that be have decreed that nowadays those useful rear fogs can't be operated unless you've FIRST switched on your (usually useless) front ones - yet you CAN use the fronts without the rears!

 

Just give me lots of different lights, with clearly marked switches so I can decide which to use when!

[bolero boy]

George Collings - 2013-11-15 11:15 PM

 

 

Motorcyclists because of their small head on profile are easily missed by other road users. That why they run with headlights on. I have dealt with a number of collision where vehicles have been driven out of junctions into the path of motorcyclist. It will be harder to spot them because of all vehicles eventually getting running lights and I anticipatesome probably small rise in the motorcycle casualty rate.

George, i bow to your superior experience in these matters, am really struggling to see the difference between pulling out from a junction in front of a motorbike you cant see, or pulling out of the same junction in front of a car you cant see.

 

They all need to advertise their presence in adverse conditions. To ask cars not to put their lights on doesn't seem right.

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

If you can't see, you shouldn't be driving. ;-)

 

Let's fit ALL pedestrians with DRL's that makes far more sense, I can never spot them :D

 

 

SPLAT, there goes another.

[bolero boy]

Concise, to the point, totally irrelevant as usual, Mike :-(

Of course one shouldn't be driving if you cant see, what we are discussing here is the validity of using vehicle lights to help with recognition in adverse conditions, or didn't you see that ;-)

Just to add, that i ride a bike and use lights to help motorist spot me, i also hope that they use lights to help me spot them.

Big white dirty motorhomes are not that easy to see in gloomy conditions, white doesnt show up particularly well despite thoughts to the contrary.

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

bolero boy - 2013-11-16 9:32 AM

 

Concise, to the point, totally irrelevant as usual, Mike :-(

Of course one shouldn't be driving if you cant see, what we are discussing here is the validity of using vehicle lights to help with recognition in adverse conditions, or didn't you see that ;-)

Just to add, that i ride a bike and use lights to help motorist spot me, i also hope that they use lights to help me spot them.

Big white dirty motorhomes are not that easy to see in gloomy conditions, white doesnt show up particularly well despite thoughts to the contrary.

 

I think you'll find that's already covered, and has been for years.

 

Sadly enforcement has not, a bit like the use of the new plague, mobile phones and the use of.

[bolero boy]

Agreed on that, definitely :-o

How about the phone held in the left hand against the right ear (its so cool, innit? ;-) ) while negotiating a roundabout where a gear change is called for with the right hand!,, yes, ive seen it recently.

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

bolero boy - 2013-11-16 10:13 AM

 

Agreed on that, definitely :-o

How about the phone held in the left hand against the right ear (its so cool, innit? ;-) ) while negotiating a roundabout where a gear change is called for with the right hand!,, yes, ive seen it recently.

 

My son-in-law thinks nothing of a scalding hot Starbucks coffee between his legs, and using the phone, and that's my point really DRLs or not, like so many he is a menace, why, simply because traffic police are rarer than hens teeth to catch these idiots.

 

 

[bolero boy]

Not wishing to detract from the OP but heres one that really scared me last week.....

Our Sainsburys has a supermarket and a fuel station. Due to the one way exit from the fuel station, locals who need fuel and groceries realise that its best to get the shopping first and then the fuel so that you can drive from the fuel station out onto the roundabout and away........or back round the roundabout into the supermarket again if you've got your fuel first..... ;-)

So, having got fuel the other day, i was behind a 'lady' exiting the station. This is to the left only as we are on a 50 yds dual carriageway. She paused at the exit.......i could see what was coming.....she needed to go back for her shopping.....so, up to the roundabout and back to the store? Not on your life, she paused for a while and started looking back towards the store. I flashed my lights, wound down the window and reminded her she was about to enter a one way carriageway. A scream of abuse, a number of fingers (didnt count) and a quick right turn onto the oncoming carriageway, she dashed for 50 yds or so hoping no-one came the other way. I couldn't look.

It probably saved her 30 seconds but may have cost her.....well, anything.