nowtelse2do Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 We have just received our pensioners winter energy fuel allowance of £100 each. We know a few people who spend this on presents and Christmas shopping etc. Do you think that the government should pay this to your energy supplier or still leave it up to us to do what we want with it. I personally think it's a misuse of welcomed help to use it on other things than what it's intended for and opens the question by some to get it stopped. My opinion is to have it paid to your energy supplier. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Sue got £200 B-)...........I've another 10 years before I qualify...............It'll come in handy in Spain :D.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted November 22, 2013 Author Share Posted November 22, 2013 pelmetman - 2013-11-22 3:17 PM Sue got £200 B-)...........I've another 10 years before I qualify...............It'll come in handy in Spain :D.............. And I said seriously toy boy....................No bloody chance 8-) :D Now waiting for the uddersfield horror's input :-( Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Whilst I can see the merit of the suggestion that the money goes direct to the energy supplier this would cost a heck of a lot more to administer than simply giving the people the money directly. Even if they spend it on other things, they still have to pay their energy bills anyway, so it doesn't make much difference! ... now whether people should get this money in the first place ... that's another 'discussion' (argument/hissy-fit ... call it what you will) altogether! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted November 22, 2013 Author Share Posted November 22, 2013 I think means testing is the answer. There are lots of pensioners on basic pension (I think £98.00 plus a top up) but not sure, and there are more women pensioners than men. If the government know your supplier or suppliers then I can't see it costing too much more because there would be less people getting it (especially in Spain :-D ) so I would think a good saving in the end. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 It has no merit whatsoever. Perhaps the government should pay part of our pensions to our favourite supermarket so as to ensure that we buy food and don't waste it on presents for people? And can you imagine the chaos every time you switch energy provider! You decide to switch just around the time that winter fuel payments are made and your money gets sent to the wrong energy supplier! But as Mel said, what's the difference? It goes into your bank account and you still have to pay your fuel bill anyway so who cares if some treat it as a bonus and buy a treat for themselves or their family? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 We don't see it as a winter fuel payment - more like a tax rebate! Every little helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted November 22, 2013 Author Share Posted November 22, 2013 Had Enough - 2013-11-22 4:44 PM It has no merit whatsoever. Perhaps the government should pay part of our pensions to our favourite supermarket so as to ensure that we buy food and don't waste it on presents for people? And can you imagine the chaos every time you switch energy provider! You decide to switch just around the time that winter fuel payments are made and your money gets sent to the wrong energy supplier! But as Mel said, what's the difference? It goes into your bank account and you still have to pay your fuel bill anyway so who cares if some treat it as a bonus and buy a treat for themselves or their family? Most elderly people don't change, they stick with their supplier for years and the onus should be on the supplier who receives the money to make sure the relevant supplier gets it, after all they would know who the new supplier is. And like I said, a means test for those that do need it. I went through Burnley this morning and saw a chap having a real argument with himself, I stepped aside and thought......There goes Frank. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave225 Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 People should be allowed to make their own decisions. We have seen enough of the Nanny State already. If people who receive feel the best answer is to go to the boozer and splurge it all on whisky and gin, then that is their choice. If the house is freezing when they get home they have only themselves to blame. We are like others and spend a lot of the summer away but are continuing to pay the energy bills. This means we start the winter with a credit which makes me feel better about keeping warm. Of course by Spring I am usually the other way round and have to build up the credit again. I also feel that hose living in Spain, if they are entitled to it, should receive it as winters there can be pretty cold and the houses have little insulaltion. If you start bringing temperature into it then we can argue that those in the far north should get more than those in Cornwall for example. It gets just too complicated. Anyway it will be getting cut off soon so there will be no further argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 nowtelse2do - 2013-11-22 3:10 PM We have just received our pensioners winter energy fuel allowance of £100 each. We know a few people who spend this on presents and Christmas shopping etc. Do you think that the government should pay this to your energy supplier or still leave it up to us to do what we want with it. I personally think it's a misuse of welcomed help to use it on other things than what it's intended for and opens the question by some to get it stopped. My opinion is to have it paid to your energy supplier. Dave You still get the allowance even when your in an old folks home then Dave ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerC Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Means tested? Now that's a bloody silly idea if it's designed to 'save' money. It would require the setting up of yet another bureucracy to administer and like most other Gov't departments be dysfunctional pretty soon. So to 'save money' with means testing we have new offices/executives/equipment/staff/paperwork etc etc etc.......'Means testing' doesn't actually work. The whole edifice administering the scheme nearly always ends up costing more than it will ever save. So like others have said keep it as it is and those that don't want it or need it can always donate it to a good cause. As for paying it direct to the energy suppliers......do you really think it's such a good idea for the UK Gov't to hand over relatively large sums of money to 'foreign' owned companies? I don't. Leave the system alone and the money will somehow find it's way into the economy with the probability that some of it will go to local/regional suppliers meaning a healthier local economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 nowtelse2do - 2013-11-22 5:16 PM Most elderly people don't change, they stick with their supplier for years and the onus should be on the supplier who receives the money to make sure the relevant supplier gets it, after all they would know who the new supplier is. How incredibly insulting! Older people do change their supplier and the members of this forum are probably typical. Many of us will be in receipt of fuel benefit but we're all computer literate and I've changed my supplier twice already! But you still don't get it. Just because someone spends their winter fuel benefit on a treat it doesn't mean that they're not paying their fuel bill! Most of them will have a monthly standing order based on the full cost of their annual fuel bill, so when they get an extra £100 or £200 pounds they will obviously spend it on something else as their gas and electricity bill is already being paid. Those who pay by other methods will get their bank balance boosted so that when they get their quarterly bill they have more money with which to pay it. But no one is going to spend their benefit on presents or luxuries if they're struggling to pay their fuel bill. They'll use their winter fuel benefit! Your idea is unworkable, bureaucratic and pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted November 22, 2013 Author Share Posted November 22, 2013 There's not one member on this forum who will be in need of the allowance except for you. Did you not pay your bill to the other suppliers and thats the reason you 'had' to changed twice. Thousands of pensioners have no computers so that makes them computer illiterate, but I've just realised that you are unable to understand what the benefit is for.....It's to help those pensioners who for one reason or another are more unfortunate than us who struggle to make ends meet. Where did I say they are not paying their bills, twisting it again Frank like every thread that someone put up. The only thread you have ever agreed with someone was with Yozzer Hughes which goes to show just how much a know all pratt you are. Since you came back onto this forum there's been nothing but argument's which in your underhanded and deceitful way have mostly started. Only you is correct. And just to make you a bit wiser, for the past two weeks my wife, daughter (a nurse) and myself have been helping the Filipino nurses at the Burnley hospital raise money and supplies for their families. My wifes £100 came two weeks ago and was given to their fund straight away, mine came today and will go to the same fund. THAT is what I mean when asking if it's a misuse. At least our misused benefits will go where it's needed and not on booze and jollies. You will obviously have the last word but this is certainly the last i'll have with you, you're not worth it you arrogant person. Please take this as an insult worthy of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 That sounds just like Stan Laurel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 nowtelse2do - 2013-11-22 11:20 PM There's not one member on this forum who will be in need of the allowance except for you. Did you not pay your bill to the other suppliers and thats the reason you 'had' to changed twice. Thousands of pensioners have no computers so that makes them computer illiterate, but I've just realised that you are unable to understand what the benefit is for.....It's to help those pensioners who for one reason or another are more unfortunate than us who struggle to make ends meet. Where did I say they are not paying their bills, twisting it again Frank like every thread that someone put up. The only thread you have ever agreed with someone was with Yozzer Hughes which goes to show just how much a know all pratt you are. Since you came back onto this forum there's been nothing but argument's which in your underhanded and deceitful way have mostly started. Only you is correct. And just to make you a bit wiser, for the past two weeks my wife, daughter (a nurse) and myself have been helping the Filipino nurses at the Burnley hospital raise money and supplies for their families. My wifes £100 came two weeks ago and was given to their fund straight away, mine came today and will go to the same fund. THAT is what I mean when asking if it's a misuse. At least our misused benefits will go where it's needed and not on booze and jollies. You will obviously have the last word but this is certainly the last i'll have with you, you're not worth it you arrogant person. Please take this as an insult worthy of you. I can see that you're upset because you came on here with a suggestion and expected that everyone would say "Well done Nowtelse, brilliant idea!" Unfortunately, everyone else, not just me, has told you that it's silly, bureaucratic and unworkable. Also, I have no idea what all the guff about you helping Filipino nurses has anything to do with the subject in hand, except of course to tell everyone what a really good egg you are! But what you still can't grasp is how insulting your suggestion is to older people. Your entire thesis is predicated on the idea that pensioners can't be trusted to spend their Winter Fuel Benefit on what it's intended for, and that as soon as they'll get it they'll rush out and buy fripperies or spend it on bingo. In order to stop these silly old fools from freezing to death after they've spent their WFB on luxuries you propose a whole new layer of bureaucracy where the government will send their money straight to the energy supplier. I now exactly what WFB is for. I know that some people find it hard to pay their fuel bills as they are poor. I also know that these same people will not be so stupid as to waste their WFB well knowing that they'll have a big gas bill coming quite soon! Finally, I haven't insulted you, I've just tried to point out that your idea is unworkable and hasn't been thought out, and it appears that I'm not alone. I'm sorry that you feel it necessary to stoop to personal attacks, something you're accusing me of when n fact you're the only one doing it in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 Had Enough - 2013-11-23 10:25 AM Finally, I haven't insulted you, He's right Dave ;-)...............HE hasn't called you "thick as pig sh*t" yet :D..............but give him time (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 pelmetman - 2013-11-23 11:21 AM Had Enough - 2013-11-23 10:25 AM Finally, I haven't insulted you, He's right Dave ;-)...............HE hasn't called you "thick as pig sh*t" yet :D..............but give him time (lol) ... but doesn't pig s**t have a varying consistency????? So how would you know just how thick you are supposed to be???? *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 Right, not wishing to get into any heated debates about this, this is my opinion and experience on the matter! 1. A lot of people do not change their energy supplier, I would think it is the vast majority in fact. It confuses the hell out of a lot of people (even brain boxes!), regardless of age, but elderly people are much less likely to want to 'upset the apple cart' or have the hassle, so they leave it as it is as it is what they are familiar with - they do NOT like change. I know this for a FACT - my Mum, FIL and brother have all ONLY changed because we advised them to and helped them do it, if we hadn't they would NOT have even looked into it. Friends were exactly the same ... they just didn't bother as it was too 'bewildering'. If you haven't got a computer to be able to check what is the best deal for you then how DO you find out??? Our friend and FIL both have computers but even they didn't do it without us advising them to. 2. As for people spending it on other stuff and not on their heating ... yes this DOES happen, not everyone pays monthly, many will be on low incomes so the temptation to use the large influx of money for Christmas presents or towards expensive items for their own home (friparies or necessities) will be very strong ... they'll worry about saving to pay the quarterly energy bill later ... again I know this for a FACT. Some are on card/prepayment meters so aren't likely to save the money to 'feed the meter' gradually so will more than likely spend it. The bottom line is, that if people are entitled to it legally as they are at present, then what they actually do with it is up to them, like it or lump it, they have the choice to be warm or cold and therefore must ultimately be responsible for their own actions. So long as they then don't come back for another handout because they can't pay the energy bill because they've blown the money on other stuff then that's fine by me! On the other side of the coin, if the WFP didn't exist and people who were in genuine need and use the money for it's intended purpose were deprived of it and suffered accordingly, would that be better or worse than having the WFP as it stands today? Regardless of any 'wasting' of the WFP by some of the recipients and it going to some who don't really need it, I am much more content to know that those who really, really, really need it are getting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 nowtelse2do - 2013-11-22 3:10 PM................. My opinion is to have it paid to your energy supplier. Dave Sorry to be late in, and sorry Dave, but what on earth would we get in return? They're hardly impoverished companies, in need of government charity. One way the overall cost could be reduced, is by paying only one allowance per household. It does not cost twice as much to heat a house because two people occupy. Perhaps some of that saving could be then used to increase it, to benefit those who live alone. IMO, handing the money to the energy suppliers is about as sensible as income supplement, where the rest of us club together to allow employers to pay their employees inadequate wages. If a business can't pay its employees sufficient to fill vacancies, it is, in effect, bankrupt. It should go. I know there are arguments under present circumstences in favour of maintaining employment, but I am more concerned at the potential for corruption and exploitation that these silly, though well intentioned, payments create. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted November 23, 2013 Author Share Posted November 23, 2013 Point taken Brian. I was going to suggest another way to do it by issuing vouchers instead of cash but got slightly sidetracked >:-( ;-) Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 Brian Kirby - 2013-11-23 12:53 PM One way the overall cost could be reduced, is by paying only one allowance per household. It does not cost twice as much to heat a house because two people occupy. Perhaps some of that saving could be then used to increase it, to benefit those who live alone. I think this is already happening as Sue received £200 ;-).................. I expect really old people like Dave are still in the old system :D..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted November 23, 2013 Author Share Posted November 23, 2013 Two pensioners in the house, one maybe an alcoholic the other maybe a chain smoker. If the alcoholic gets the £200 then it all goes on booze. If the other gets the £200 it gone on cigs,so to be fair, it's spread evenly. In your case, Sue gets the £200 to subsidise the pouffe making or to help with the Diesel when off to Spain :D Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 Brian Kirby - 2013-11-23 12:53 PM I know there are arguments under present circumstences in favour of maintaining employment, but I am more concerned at the potential for corruption and exploitation that these silly, though well intentioned, payments create. Silly, though well intentioned payments? That's a terrible put-down Brian! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 But I'm not quite sure how it qualifies, Frank. I agree that it is a dismissal (albeit a rather high-handed one) of a policy the present government has adopted. A put-down is surely a rejection of another person's opinion, in a manner calculated to belittle them? I see you haven't attended one of those interpersonal skills courses - at which I so excelled! :-D I'm rather surprised you don't agree, though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 Brian Kirby - 2013-11-23 5:40 PM A put-down is surely a rejection of another person's opinion, in a manner calculated to belittle them? I see you haven't attended one of those interpersonal skills courses - at which I so excelled! :-D How much do those courses in posh bitchin cost? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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