Another CC rip off

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Had Enough - 2013-11-23 5:27 PM

 

1footinthegrave - 2013-11-23 2:38 PM

 

Had Enough - 2013-11-23 11:36 AM

 

1footinthegrave - 2013-11-23 11:19 AM

 

It's funny, but when I flagged up the fact the CC charge way over the normal price for Calor gas ( when we used to exchange bottles ) I was shot down in flames by most on here................so perhaps there are plenty of mugs in the CC . (!)

 

You know that this isn't true. The bottle that you bought was sold by a site warden who keeps a few to satisfy those silly enough to set off without checking that they have enough gas. Wardens buy them and put on margin to cover their trouble. It was not sold to you by the CC at all!

 

You were castigated by many members for whinging about something that was entirely your own fault.

 

Wardens buy them and put a margin on for the trouble eh................so every other Calor outlet sells them at trade price then ?

 

And let's ignore the many who stay on club sites for extended periods of time that need Calor, are they supposed to trundle of down the road to another Calor outlet, or presumably they are whingers too for being ripped off by the CC who facilitate this scam by the wardens, with respect bolloc*s

 

The wardens sell them as a service. They buy them from their nearest stockist and put a margin on, and why shouldn't they? They are not sold by the club. And as for people having to trundle down to the nearest Calor supplier, why shouldn't they? Perhaps you expect the wardens to help you out if your leisure battery packs in or you run out of food? Why should they even bother stocking gas cylinders? It's a campsite not a retail shop.

 

They do it as a service and no one's going to get rich selling a few Calor bottles every month! And try getting a replacement gas bottle on most other sites!

 

The fact is, as was demonstrated on the post in question, that you'd been foolish enough to set off on holiday without checking your cylinders and you had no choice but to buy one off a warden. If I were a warden I simply wouldn't bother. Why should they have to out up with the kind of insults such as those emanating from you? They have to buy the cylinders, invest money in them and then swap them for members. What do you think this is worth?

 

What would you consider a reasonable margin to put on a cylinder that you've bought for say £20?

 

Remember, you have to invest your money in them, keep them in very secure and safe store, and return the empties.

 

Finally as I've just remembered you complained again about this being a CC rip off but as the thread went on it turned out that it wasn't even the CC but the Camping and Caravan Club! You've obviously forgotten all over again so keen are you to denigrate the CC!

 

Members should read the original thread if they want a good laugh!

 

https://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/CC-club-what-membership-benefits-/31562/

 

 

 

 

 

 

've got no problem with folk having a laugh with that thread, considering all of your posts are devoid of humour, you are without doubt the nastiest piece of work on here, or can you point to a post of yours that will give a laugh................oh I know that long running saga with CliveH, on second thoughts not a laugh at all, just an example of your pathetic nature.

 

And to put the record straight I did NOT set off without checking my gas cylinders, I wanted to set off to France with all full ones and like so many others, Dover that is the last opportunity to do so, which normally would have been the stockist I usually use, on that occasion I didn't. .

 

my fault I concede to expect the same or very similar pricing from a club, and to say this is just a sideline for the wardens I doubt they have to pay for the secure storage area on site, or any costs associated with LPG storage, if they did I may have some sympathy, to pretend that stocking a few bits and bobs is any way the same as an essential thing like Calor which they have done long before electric hookups and a mini shop were common place is nonsense.

 

Still lesson learnt whichever "club" it is.

[Guest pelmetman]

Had Enough - 2013-11-23 5:46 PM

 

pelmetman - 2013-11-23 5:37 PM

 

In Spain the local gas bottle man delivers direct to your pitch B-).........................I wonder if the CC would allow such a thing? >:-)....................not to mention they're dirt cheap when compared to UK prices *-) ...........

 

Well, I think that we can work out the reason for that! Sites in Spain are often packed with people staying for weeks or even months so there's a ready market. Those staying on CC and C&CC or any other UK sites are generally there for days and usually have the sense to ensure that they've enough gas before setting off on holiday!

 

Well in Spain they tend to use big bottles so I suspect swings and roundabouts the usage is probably the same ;-).................and if the members of this so called club *-)............knew that the local gasman called on a regular basis then they wouldn't have to worry about getting charged over the odds for a gas bottle ;-) .....................but there again an organisation that looks out for their members is usually called a club >:-)

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

And that precisely the point....................a club that charges ( what is it ) £40 odd quid to join, then charges God knows what in site fees, and takes the proverbial on prices and service. (!) yes I was caught out, once bitten twice shy.

[Guest Had Enough]

1footinthegrave - 2013-11-23 5:48 PM

 

 

It's funny, but when I flagged up the fact the CC charge way over the normal price for Calor gas ( when we used to exchange bottles ) I was shot down in flames by most on here................so perhaps there are plenty of mugs in the CC . (!)

 

But you came on here some weeks ago castigating the CC and today you've done it again but it turns out that it wasn't even the CC but was the C&CC!

 

It was pointed out to you then that you had the wrong club and you conceded that you had used the C&CC and not the CC!. But here we are again with you once more accusing the CC of something they've not even done!

 

As I said, if you want a laugh.........................!

 

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

Under the circumstances, I'm a little surprised you've chosen to remain a member. Why haven't you left? Clearly, you are very dissatisfied with them.

[Guest pelmetman]

Had Enough - 2013-11-23 6:07 PM

 

1footinthegrave - 2013-11-23 5:48 PM

 

 

It's funny, but when I flagged up the fact the CC charge way over the normal price for Calor gas ( when we used to exchange bottles ) I was shot down in flames by most on here................so perhaps there are plenty of mugs in the CC . (!)

 

But you came on here some weeks ago castigating the CC and today you've done it again but it turns out that it wasn't even the CC but was the C&CC!

 

It was pointed out to you then that you had the wrong club and you conceded that you had used the C&CC and not the CC!. But here we are again with you once more accusing the CC of something they've not even done!

 

As I said, if you want a laugh.........................!

 

 

 

CC or CC&C........

 

noun

1 [treated as singular or plural] an association dedicated to a particular interest or activity:

 

Of its members or the people who run it?.............is the pertinent question >:-)

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Brian Kirby - 2013-11-23 6:10 PM

 

Under the circumstances, I'm a little surprised you've chosen to remain a member. Why haven't you left? Clearly, you are very dissatisfied with them.

 

It's a funny old world, you and the other bloke seem to think it entirely reasonable for both " clubs" to be charging way over the odds for an item that not so many years ago was the ONLY thing they sold, yes I'm going back to the days of gas mantles................................considering they are getting so much bad press for many things, I don't think I'm the only one dissatisfied. As for my membership I paid out for it, and I don't think they do refunds otherwise I'd have asked for one, I've personally have had enough ( pardon the pun ) of both "clubs"

 

You can both defend the indefensible till the cows come home............a "club" should NOT be charging way over the odds that any other Calor stockist does.

[Brian Kirby]

Ah, that is longhand for you haven't yet left, but you intend to. I understand. As for your guess as to what I think about their pricing policies, I'm sorry, but you are quite, quite, wrong.

[Guest Had Enough]

1footinthegrave - 2013-11-23 6:21 PM

 

Brian Kirby - 2013-11-23 6:10 PM

 

Under the circumstances, I'm a little surprised you've chosen to remain a member. Why haven't you left? Clearly, you are very dissatisfied with them.

 

It's a funny old world, you and the other bloke seem to think it entirely reasonable for both " clubs" to be charging way over the odds for an item that not so many years ago was the ONLY thing they sold, yes I'm going back to the days of gas mantles................................considering they are getting so much bad press for many things, I don't think I'm the only one dissatisfied. As for my membership I paid out for it, and I don't think they do refunds otherwise I'd have asked for one, I've personally have had enough ( pardon the pun ) of both "clubs"

 

You can both defend the indefensible till the cows come home............a "club" should NOT be charging way over the odds that any other Calor stockist does.

 

So if club wardens offer a service and sell bread and milk for the convenience of members they shouldn't be allowed to charge more than Tesco?

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Brian Kirby - 2013-11-23 6:28 PM

 

Ah, that is longhand for you haven't yet left, but you intend to. I understand. As for your guess as to what I think about their pricing policies, I'm sorry, but you are quite, quite, wrong.

 

It's long hand for I will not renew, there is no other option, and as a point of interest I spoke to BOTH clubs about Calor pricing, they both conceded a lot of people express surprise, and indeed complain, and BOTH suggested I wrote in to register my complaint..........................................taking the wardens side no doubt this is an invaluable perk for an unenvious and probably poorly paid occupation, but that means the public are subsidising the organisations poor salaries, don;t we pay enough when some places are £28 a night ? why on earth do we have to pay a "membership" as well...........................oh we don't need too, quite.

[Tracker]

Had Enough - 2013-11-23 6:34 PM

So if club wardens offer a service and sell bread and milk for the convenience of members they shouldn't be allowed to charge more than Tesco?

 

Another typically twisted response.

 

Selling in small quantities by a site warden who more often than not has to pay high prices from a local wholesaler as well as travel to collect his stock cannot ever be compared to the bulk buying power of the likes of Tesco.

 

But of course, as a shopkeeper yourself you already know that and you are just being difficult - again.

[Brian Kirby]

I agree, both clubs seem very expensive for what is on offer. I haven't/wouldn't choose to buy anything other than a pitch from the sites.

 

If all the clubs various activities are profitable, as I assume they are intended to be, they should be generating substantial profits. From what I can understand of the accounts, they do not. So, either someone is engaged in empire building, or they simply lack efficiency, or something darker is afoot.

 

Some apparently successful commercial sites provide facilities of similar quality at lower pitch costs, and are apparently profitable, yet don't have the added incomes from membership, insurance sales, ferry sales, holiday sales, etc etc.

 

We use either club as and when, because they are reasonably reliable, but weather apart, the sheer cost of using the clubs is a large part of the reason we spend most of our time outside the UK.

 

Quite a few of the wardens have commented that they don't find the terms that good, considering they have to use their own vans etc as accommodation, so it seems they aren't unduly driving up costs. It seems the money disappears at the head offices, but my ability to understand the accounts doesn't tell me where. A good forensic accountant might be able to unravel it. Would be interesting to know. It's a relief that nether has the name Paul Flowers on their management teams, so it can't be him! :-D

[Guest pelmetman]

Brian Kirby - 2013-11-23 7:02 PM

 

I agree, both clubs seem very expensive for what is on offer. I haven't/wouldn't choose to buy anything other than a pitch from the sites.

 

If all the clubs various activities are profitable, as I assume they are intended to be, they should be generating substantial profits. From what I can understand of the accounts, they do not. So, either someone is engaged in empire building, or they simply lack efficiency, or something darker is afoot.

 

So its not just us fick geezers who smell a rat? >:-) .............

[Guest Had Enough]

Tracker - 2013-11-23 6:42 PM

 

Had Enough - 2013-11-23 6:34 PM

So if club wardens offer a service and sell bread and milk for the convenience of members they shouldn't be allowed to charge more than Tesco?

 

Another typically twisted response.

 

Selling in small quantities by a site warden who more often than not has to pay high prices from a local wholesaler as well as travel to collect his stock cannot ever be compared to the bulk buying power of the likes of Tesco.

 

But of course, as a shopkeeper yourself you already know that and you are just being difficult - again.

 

Then you've clearly not understood the context of my post. But I'll explain it again.

 

Wardens on some sites purchase Calor gas cylinders in small quantities from Calor dealers. They do this to offer a service to members and they add a modest mark-up on the cylinders to compensate them for their investment, and the time involved in buying and returning empties.

 

This seems to annoy Onefoot who has clearly stated that wardens should not be allowed to charge more than Calor stockists. He has stated that doing so is a rip-off and a scam.

 

The bread and milk analogy is exactly the same. Wardens buy bread and milk and ice-cream etc. and sell it as a service to the members and as a way of supplementing what is a very small salary.

 

I fail to see the difference between paying more than a supermarket would charge for bread and milk and paying more than a Calor main dealer would charge for cylinders.

 

Just as wardens can't bulk buy bread as Tesco can they can't bulk buy Calor gas and have to pay the same price as you and me when purchasing from a calor dealer. Surely no one can complain if they make a modest profit on the sale of an of the things they sell?

 

This is nothing to do with the clubs. The clubs don't run shops but for the convenience of members they allow wardens to offer a small selections of goods from gas to newspapers.

 

To say that they are ripping off members or scamming them is as silly as accusing the corner shop of the same crimes because it is dearer than Tesco.

 

 

 

 

[Tracker]

Fair comment Frank - it seems that we agree on this after all and I appear to have misunderstood your analogy.

 

My apologies as I am happy to accept when I am wrong.

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Calor do and always have done deliver to the sites, there's no fetching and carrying involved at all, yes by all means make a profit " for your trouble" that's exactly the same any retailer outfit does that is not in dispute, what is in dispute is why a "club" ( I use that word again ) should condone ripping off their members, by telling the wardens not to charge over the odds, or don't keep them at all if it's so much trouble, seems quite reasonable to me, but not you evidently.

[Tracker]

The last time we were almost overcharged for a Calor cylinder I simply smiled and said no thanks I'll get it elsewhere - and left the guy to put it back in the cage.

 

Not a site I hasten to add, but the customer always has the option to walk away.

[Guest Had Enough]

Brian Kirby - 2013-11-23 7:02 PM

 

I agree, both clubs seem very expensive for what is on offer. I haven't/wouldn't choose to buy anything other than a pitch from the sites.

 

If all the clubs various activities are profitable, as I assume they are intended to be, they should be generating substantial profits. From what I can understand of the accounts, they do not. So, either someone is engaged in empire building, or they simply lack efficiency, or something darker is afoot.

 

Some apparently successful commercial sites provide facilities of similar quality at lower pitch costs, and are apparently profitable, yet don't have the added incomes from membership, insurance sales, ferry sales, holiday sales, etc etc.

 

We use either club as and when, because they are reasonably reliable, but weather apart, the sheer cost of using the clubs is a large part of the reason we spend most of our time outside the UK.

 

Quite a few of the wardens have commented that they don't find the terms that good, considering they have to use their own vans etc as accommodation, so it seems they aren't unduly driving up costs. It seems the money disappears at the head offices, but my ability to understand the accounts doesn't tell me where. A good forensic accountant might be able to unravel it. Would be interesting to know. It's a relief that nether has the name Paul Flowers on their management teams, so it can't be him! :-D

 

Where do you get your information from? The CC is profitable and it's net worth has grown considerably over the last few years. A quick check on any of the free company accounts site would tell you this.

 

In fact it seems to me to be a an example of just how a business should be run. It has no shareholders and all its profits go back into the business to be used for further investment in new sites and upgrading existing ones. Furthermore all major decisions are made by committees of members with professionals employed to run the business. If the members aren't satisfied they can ditch the executives!

 

It claims that its sites make little or no profit possibly because they are of the highest standard and have moderate prices. Have you ever checked on the price of commercial sites in the West Country for example in high season? They are staggering! Yes, in the off-season when they're desperate for business they may be lower than a CC site but the CC doesn't have such a wide spread in its prices.

 

This is just the same in France for instance. On the Ile de Re recently I enjoyed a nice site that wasn't up to the CC standard and it was cheap as it was ACSI, but its summer prices were over forty Euros a night and it was a very simple site.

 

What cannot be denied is that the CC must be doing something right. Its membership continues to grow and it offers a huge range of services to its members. It runs its CL operation and gets nothing from your booking when you stay on a farm site.

 

I rarely use CC sites but the other services save me much more than my annual fee. I got the best insurance deal via the club and it saved me a lot of money on a long Channel crossing last year.

 

I really don't care if some members on here don't want to be in a club, good luck to them. But what I find irritating is the evangelical anti-club posters who remind me of born again Christians or those who've given up smoking or switched to a panel van and spend the rest of their lives trying to justify their choice and constantly ramming it down our throats.

 

You don't like the CC? Fine, ignore it, but for God's sake stop trying to find any reason that you can to bang on about how awful it is!

 

I'm happy that you don't need a club, just accept that some of us like being a member!

 

And as for its popularity, members here really ought to check out the CC's forum. It only started it two years ago but it now gets more posts in a day than this forum gets in a month and there are thriving sections for every aspect, including motorhomes.

[Guest Had Enough]

Tracker - 2013-11-23 7:19 PM

 

Fair comment Frank - it seems that we agree on this after all and I appear to have misunderstood your analogy.

 

My apologies as I am happy to accept when I am wrong.

 

Thank you. That's very decent of you.

[Colin Leake]

Clamper - 2013-11-23 12:36 PM

 

Spot-on Judge. If you are going to have a coffee have a real one.

 

Does anyone use "instant" tea? I have not seen it around for ages, not that I have looked that hard

 

. (lol)

 

No not tea but we did try instant smash potato once, only once mind you!

[Guest Had Enough]

1footinthegrave - 2013-11-23 7:24 PM

 

Calor do and always have done deliver to the sites, there's no fetching and carrying involved at all, yes by all means make a profit " for your trouble" that's exactly the same any retailer outfit does that is not in dispute, what is in dispute is why a "club" ( I use that word again ) should condone ripping off their members, by telling the wardens not to charge over the odds, or don't keep them at all if it's so much trouble, seems quite reasonable to me, but not you evidently.

 

But they don't charge 'over the odds'! You may remember from the post in question that the C&CC site to which you referred marked up by 16%!

 

How much do you think they mark up the bread and the milk?

 

As I said, if I were a warden and the members complained as you do and used such terms as scam and rip-off I'd give up supplying anything and send you to the nearest Calor dealer, just as I'd send you to the nearest supermarket if you wanted to do some shopping.

 

Why should they bother? And once more it's not the clubs. They supply campsites, they are not retailers but they allow their wardens to offer certain basic items as a service to the members.

 

 

[Colin Leake]

We buy one of the lightweight propane cylinders every three years as we always stay on sites with hook ups so the price is not a big problem for us. However I would say that we once bought a cylinder from an alternative source. When you take into account the amount of phoning around we had to do to find a dealer that stocked them plus the time effort and fuel needed to go and pick it up I'd rather pay a few bob extra for the convenience of being able to pick one up on site when I needed it. Just for the record I seem to remember it was no cheaper than the price the next site we stayed on!

[Guest pelmetman]

Colin Leake - 2013-11-23 7:33 PM

 

Clamper - 2013-11-23 12:36 PM

 

Spot-on Judge. If you are going to have a coffee have a real one.

 

Does anyone use "instant" tea? I have not seen it around for ages, not that I have looked that hard

 

. (lol)

 

No not tea but we did try instant smash potato once, only once mind you!

 

That's because you need to be an alien to enjoy it :D............

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Had Enough - 2013-11-23 7:36 PM

 

1footinthegrave - 2013-11-23 7:24 PM

 

Calor do and always have done deliver to the sites, there's no fetching and carrying involved at all, yes by all means make a profit " for your trouble" that's exactly the same any retailer outfit does that is not in dispute, what is in dispute is why a "club" ( I use that word again ) should condone ripping off their members, by telling the wardens not to charge over the odds, or don't keep them at all if it's so much trouble, seems quite reasonable to me, but not you evidently.

 

But they don't charge 'over the odds'! You may remember from the post in question that the C&CC site to which you referred marked up by 16%!

 

How much do you think they mark up the bread and the milk?

 

As I said, if I were a warden and the members complained as you do and used such terms as scam and rip-off I'd give up supplying anything and send you to the nearest Calor dealer, just as I'd send you to the nearest supermarket if you wanted to do some shopping.

 

Why should they bother? And once more it's not the clubs. They supply campsites, they are not retailers but they allow their wardens to offer certain basic items as a service to the members.

 

 

They marked it up by 16% by what other retailers were selling for, considering they are paying trade just the same as the clubs, who may have collectively got even better terms ( as is very likely ) it was in the example I gave the mark up is considerably more, the lowest retail I found was £18.50 as opposed to £24,99, given that the trade price is likely to be around £15, even you would agree £25 is not a 16% markup, any way lets give it up at that shall we, especially as I've invested in refillable bottles now and get the same quantity of gas for £7.50 retail. ;-)

 

Finally I did acknowledge that I did not know the supply of Calor was a perk for the warden, but even so I'd consider probably a tenner on a bottle not a bad little perk.

[Guest Had Enough]

1footinthegrave - 2013-11-23 7:59 PM

 

Had Enough - 2013-11-23 7:36 PM

 

1footinthegrave - 2013-11-23 7:24 PM

 

Calor do and always have done deliver to the sites, there's no fetching and carrying involved at all, yes by all means make a profit " for your trouble" that's exactly the same any retailer outfit does that is not in dispute, what is in dispute is why a "club" ( I use that word again ) should condone ripping off their members, by telling the wardens not to charge over the odds, or don't keep them at all if it's so much trouble, seems quite reasonable to me, but not you evidently.

 

But they don't charge 'over the odds'! You may remember from the post in question that the C&CC site to which you referred marked up by 16%!

 

How much do you think they mark up the bread and the milk?

 

As I said, if I were a warden and the members complained as you do and used such terms as scam and rip-off I'd give up supplying anything and send you to the nearest Calor dealer, just as I'd send you to the nearest supermarket if you wanted to do some shopping.

 

Why should they bother? And once more it's not the clubs. They supply campsites, they are not retailers but they allow their wardens to offer certain basic items as a service to the members.

 

 

They marked it up by 16% by what other retailers were selling for, considering they are paying trade just the same as the clubs, who may have collectively got even better terms ( as is very likely ) it was in the example I gave the mark up is considerably more, the lowest retail I found was £18.50 as opposed to £24,99, given that the trade price is likely to be around £15, even you would agree £25 is not a 16% markup, any way lets give it up at that shall we, especially as I've invested in refillable bottles now and get the same quantity of gas for £7.50 retail. ;-)

 

Finally I did acknowledge that I did not know the supply of Calor was a perk for the warden, but even so I'd consider probably a tenner on a bottle not a bad little perk.

 

But how do you know they are buying at trade price? They don't do enough business to warrant Calor opening an account with them. They buy in tiny quantities from their local Calor dealer. It's the same with bread and milk. They go to Tesco and put a small mark-up on it. It's a service for members which most reasonable people are grateful for.

 

The next time you run out on a site I suggest that you ignore the warden's service and spend a couple of hours driving round to save a couple of quid!