Gravemaurice Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Happy New Year fellow motorhomers! We are out and about using/relying on the leisure battery for the first time. After enjoying a lovely dinner watching the waves roll in at St. Andrews beach I went to boil the kettle, which I bought from our motorhome dealer's shop only to find it doesn't work. I actually thought being low wattage from a motorhome shop that it would fit the bill but apparently I assumed too much and it's only any use on a hook up. So we are now going to need a 12v kettle (do you get them) or an inverter to make our various electrical accoutrements work off the battery. There are four x three pin "domestic" type sockets in the van - do I get an inverter that plugs into one of those (can you get one - all I have come across have cigarette type plug in connectors? Another alternative is to get a gas stove top kettle but I'll still need to sort out the inverter for the laptop/radio domestic stuff. Yet again tips and advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerC Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 You can't really expect a 240v appliance to work off a 12 volt supply no matter how low the wattage rating. You can get 12v 'car kettles' from £10-£20 ....Google throws up quite a lot of them. I wouldn't like to consider 'plugging in' an inverter...........there are 'technichal/lektrikery' minded folks on here who will explain why it's not a good thing to do. As I understand it they require specific installation regarding wiring/fusing etc. Others will probably explain the power drawdown incurred as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 A 12v kettle to be effective will use far too much current, far better to use a kettle on the hob. As for laptop etc., more efficient to get 12v power supplies for them can be brought for a few quid on ebay. If anything doesn't work off 12v I can't see the point of having it in the van. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Inverters are a whole subject in their own right, and I am no expert. They convert 12V DC power to 230V AC power - and lose some in the process. To get some idea of the capacity you will need, take the Wattage of anything you need to run/charge from the inverter, and divide by 230. That will give you the output Amperage. Then divide the Wattage by 12 to get the input Amperage at 12V. This is the load, discounting inverter losses, that will be applied to your habitation battery. You will quickly spot that the input Amps are about 20 times the output Amps. So, if your low wattage kettle is, say 750W, you will need about 3.25A to run it at 230V, but it will take well over 60A from your battery in the process! To be able to discharge the battery at that rate, you will need a large battery bank, and this will add weight to your van. You will also need to decide whether your inverter must be pure sine, or modified sine, wave type, because some electronic equipment, for example some laptop power packs, are damaged unless fed pure sine 230V power. Pure sine inverters are more expensive than their modified sine cousins and, generally, the price differential widens as the output power increases. So, buying an inverter, particularly a pure sine inverter, with substantial power reserves, will become quite a costly option, to which you may also have to add the cost of greater battery power to cope with the high rates of discharge. The simple, cheap, alternative, is to use gas to boil water. Since you already have a gas hob, all it will cost you is a kettle, or you could even use a small saucepan. You could then carry a small inverter, of sufficient capacity to run just a laptop power pack or phone etc charger, and should not then need to increase your battery bank. What will suit you best will largely be governed by the amount of time you expect to spend "off grid", how many 230V devices you want to run, for how long and how frequently, and how long you expect to spend in any one place. If you will not use EHUs at all, remember that you can only re-charge your batteries by running your van engine, usually while driving, and that a heavily discharged battery will take considerable time to get back to its full capacity. Also remember that to avoid damaging the battery, you should not discharge it below about 60% of its stated capacity so, very roughly, an 80Ah battery has only about 50Ah usable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 As above, (well I didn't read all of Brians post) get a gas kettle, it's by far the most efficient way to boil water off mains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Jones Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 lennyhb - 2014-01-02 4:07 PM A 12v kettle to be effective will use far too much current, far better to use a kettle on the hob. As for laptop etc., more efficient to get 12v power supplies for them can be brought for a few quid on ebay. If anything doesn't work off 12v I can't see the point of having it in the van. I'm with Lenny here, because (having a small van and often staying off-site) we don't have space to waste on "occasional" kit. We've sourced 12v chargers for phones, laptop, even iPad, and yes, we boil a kettle on the hob. It looks as though the OP didn't receive a very good handover with this, his first van. So it's up to us to help him get the hang of things guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravemaurice Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 Thanks, yes I think the "hob"kettle is the answer to being off grid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 I'm surprised that you might have believed that a 230V domestic kettle would work without your motorhome being connected to a 230V power supply, as this limitation was emphasised (several times) in responses to your "Our Novice Adventures" posting in late-November 2013. I notice that it was recommended in November that you obtain John Wickersham's book "The Motorcaravan Manual". This was excellent advice as it covers so many of the technical issues first-time motorcaravanners will need to become aware of. I'm certain you'd also find the "Go Motorhoming and Campervanning" publication useful: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Go-Motorhoming-Campervanning-Motorhome-Camper/dp/0956678114 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Don't worry gravemaurice, we've all been there! Welcome to the forum and don't take the putdowns personally, they're a cantankerous group on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pampam Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Hello gravemaurice I was similarly confused the first time we was "off grid" and thought I could just plug things into 3 pin sockets and the vans electric system would magically make it work (the radio) I didn't think my kettle would work or microwave because they "get hot" and therefore must use lots of leccy .so it's gas kettle and fridge and gas oven and hob when we are off grid (not very often up to now ) and the telly and radio and lights work on battery . At the time I'd taken a tv from bedroom which didn't have a "roundy" plug so we had no electric entertainment but read lots of books which was lovely : I asked on here and was pointed in right direction have since bought an avtex telly which works on both circuits :have fun pp:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pampam Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Hello gravemaurice I was similarly confused the first time we was "off grid" and thought I could just plug things into 3 pin sockets and the vans electric system would magically make it work (the radio) I didn't think my kettle would work or microwave because they "get hot" and therefore must use lots of leccy .so it's gas kettle and fridge and gas oven and hob when we are off grid (not very often up to now ) and the telly and radio and lights work on battery . At the time I'd taken a tv from bedroom which didn't have a "roundy" plug so we had no electric entertainment but read lots of books which was lovely : I asked on here and was pointed in right direction have since bought an avtex telly which works on both circuits :have fun pp:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pampam Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 By the way what is all this ""low wattage"" about ?i see it on things in camp shops but if you can't use it on a leisure battery what's the point? Pp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Pampam - 2014-01-04 6:35 AM By the way what is all this ""low wattage"" about ?i see it on things in camp shops but if you can't use it on a leisure battery what's the point? Pp There are lots of mains-powered electrical appliances that are marketed as "low wattage". Examples are here: http://www.riverswayleisure.co.uk/acatalog/caravan-motorhome-low-wattage-kettles.html These tend to need no more than 1000W of 230V power (just over 4 Amps), so can normally be used on any campsite, even those that have low-amperage electric hook-ups (EHUs). Some products have an even lower wattage - for instance this 500W mains-powered kettle http://www.princess.nl/en/producten/244-royal-water-kettle-500w-deluxe.html#specificaties As RogerC said earlier, there are plenty of 12V kettles that could be powered from a motorhome's suitably-sized leisure-battery. An example is here: http://www.roadking.co.uk/12v-kettles/waeco-kettle-mobitherm-deluxe-car-travel-kettle-12v.html However, these can be very slow to boil and their current drain on the battery can be high. The above Roadking advert for a Waeco kettle mentions that "The unique 200W hidden element gives the kettle a faster boiling time (in comparison to other 12V kettles)" but 200W at 12V is approaching 17 Amps and many of the 12V 'cigarette-lighter type' sockets fitted to motorhomes will be protected by fuses rated well below that amperage figure. So, even if one bought the Waeco kettle for use in a motorhome on the basis that it's 12V-powered, it's quite likely that the motorhome's wiring would need to be modified to allow the kettle to be used. ....................................................................................................... Incidentally, my posting of 3 January 2014 7:54 AM was not intended as a 'put down'. It's unrealistic to expect anyone new to motorcaravanning (perhaps with no caravanning/camping history) to become instantly familiar with how their motorhome functions. It's also overly optimistic to expect even the most professionally conducted dealership-handover to provide a comprehensive motorhome education in a couple of hours. There's much to learn and the most efficient and quickest way to do this is via a book. Each of the books mentioned in my 3 January posting have over 200 pages and that's a lot of expertly-written motorhome-related background information. The books certainly won't cover all the questions a novice motorcaravanner will want to ask - that's where motorhome forums will be valuable - but they wiil deal with the basics. Our first motorhome was obtained in 1998. We'd had some limited tent-camping experience in the distant past, but no exposure to caravanning. Some 3 years later I won a copy of the Motorcaravan Manual as a prize for a letter of mine published in Which Motorcaravan magazine (and what a palaver it was to get them to honour the deal and send it to me!) and soon realised how useful the book would have been when I was on a steep motorhome learning-curve in '98. A selection of motorhome reference books was discussed in this December 2013 forum thread http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Useful-Books-for-newbie-to-Motorhoming/33373/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pampam Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Derek Uzzell your posts are brill you always are very informative and to the point (as are most posters on here) I wish I'd heard of this forum when I got my first van: am still learning and enjoying it very much ...just thought I'd tell you that as sometimes the help others give on here doesn't get the recognition it deserves {:D pp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dav7 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 When we take our motorhome out for a day trip, in the winter months. Just to keep things ticking over we always boil a kettle on the gas. dav7 :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 If you like tea made in a teapot you can actually use this in place of a kettle on the stove, assuming it's made of metal of course and you make sure the flame doesn't melt the handle! :D I used to do this many years ago as it saved having to take a kettle and a teapot with me, but now I'm a 'teabag in a mug' girl!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pampam Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Years ago I wouldn't touch tea unless it was made in a teapot , and in recent times I've succumbed to the tea bag in the cup/mug my mum still has a teapot with a cosy (when she remembers) and if she has tea bag in mug she leaves it in (yuk) :and when I go to uncles it's tea leaves in teapot unstrained into cup (ringtons) :) pp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Ah, tea! An interesting subject.... ;-) We have two kettles in the van, hob and leccy and make tea in a teapot as, without any doubt, it tastes like real tea. When I make the tea in the pot we use two tea bags. This makes two cups for each of us. When we have our pals round, we just add one more tea bag and more hot water to make a second pot which means we all (four of us) get two cups of lovely proper tea for three bags. When we go to their van, despite having a teapot, they make tea in cups with a bag in it, not as nice. So to make two cups each (just about drinkable :-) ) they use EIGHT! tea bags. Two and a half times as much tea for half the taste , hmmmmmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJay Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 bolero boy - 2014-01-08 9:41 AM Ah, tea! An interesting subject.... ;-) We have two kettles in the van, hob and leccy and make tea in a teapot as, without any doubt, it tastes like real tea. When I make the tea in the pot we use two tea bags. This makes two cups for each of us. When we have our pals round, we just add one more tea bag and more hot water to make a second pot which means we all (four of us) get two cups of lovely proper tea for three bags. When we go to their van, despite having a teapot, they make tea in cups with a bag in it, not as nice. So to make two cups each (just about drinkable :-) ) they use EIGHT! tea bags. Two and a half times as much tea for half the taste , hmmmmmm. We do exactly the same. Can't stand tea bag in cup. If I know some-one makes tea in cup, I always opt for coffee! My daughter bought a tea pot from a charity shop for when we visit! I always take a flask of hot water when travelling, this saves having to switch the gas on, also put spare hot water in flask at other times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archiesgrandad Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Make tea with hot water from a flask? Must be something of a specialist deviation. To make real tea the water should be boiled fresh, pre heat the teapot, and as soon as the kettle boils take the teapot with the leaves in to the kettle,not vice versa, and pour the freshly boiled water onto the leaves. Allow to brew for three minutes and then pour into the cup. Of course, some people make tea differently. AGD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJay Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Archiesgrandad - 2014-01-08 3:05 PM Make tea with hot water from a flask? Must be something of a specialist deviation. To make real tea the water should be boiled fresh, pre heat the teapot, and as soon as the kettle boils take the teapot with the leaves in to the kettle,not vice versa, and pour the freshly boiled water onto the leaves. Allow to brew for three minutes and then pour into the cup. Of course, some people make tea differently. AGD We actually drink coffee made from flask water. I agree tea needs fresh boiled water I can drink coffee any way (strong/weak) but tea, well , has to be right, which is why I always have coffee, unless made by myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Archiesgrandad - 2014-01-08 3:05 PM Make tea with hot water from a flask? Must be something of a specialist deviation. To make real tea the water should be boiled fresh, pre heat the teapot, and as soon as the kettle boils take the teapot with the leaves in to the kettle,not vice versa, and pour the freshly boiled water onto the leaves. Allow to brew for three minutes and then pour into the cup. Of course, some people make tea differently. AGD Sounds good, just about to have a cup. Now, where are the chocolate biscuits......McVities, of course ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejkay Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 A much simpler and expressive way of describing the use of an inverter to power a household kettle or a microwave is to visualise the half inch thick cables that would have to be connected between the leisure battery and the inverter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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