peterlyn Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Hi can anybody help as we are at the end of are tether. First time buyers of motorhome & purchased a fiat ducato chausson Welcome 75, 2008 model in September 2012 from a dealer. Discovered within days that seats were damp in lounge & that the second bed appears to have missing parts. They have attempted to sort out but still wet seats & table which is said to make the lounge bed slides all over the place - so heavy also as you have to lift off to make the bed! Any advice appreciated. :'( :'( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Welcome to the forum, bad luck on your first Buy, Your Contract is with the dealer, So, keep plugging away at them until you are satisfied. September 2012 is quite a long time ago, beds that are still damp suggest water ingress ? Did you mean 2013 ? A bit late now I know, but did you get the dealer to assemble the beds before you bought ? We have a lot of 'Experts' on here ,legal and otherwise. so I expect many other suggestions will follow. Good luck Ray ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Hi.. Not familiar with your model but we do have a Chausson Allegro 83(2008)and if your table is anything like ours, then I agree, it is heavy and huge! I gather that it's not unusual for folk to remove them and replace with something smaller and freestanding.Although not an easy option if you need it to make up the bed. Luckily there's only the two of us, so we don't need to "dismantle" it at bedtime..although we did find a 4"x4"x 36" "infill" cushion in our wardrobe(..heaven knows where it goes though!?). Also, like yours, there isn't any means of "locking" the table in place(other than to stop it rotating)..I secure ours with an adjustable strap, looped over the one end/corner.. RE: Damp cushions.. ...They may just feel cold/damp?.. but I'd get it back to the dealer asap... :-S Which cushions are they?...are they under the skylight?...or below a window?(..our "seatbacks" sit against corrugated plastic panels, which keeps them away from the van wall and provides an air gap). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterlyn Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 Hi thank you for your response it is much appreciated. Yes, sorry i should have said September 2013 - the dealer is such a slippery customer! He has promised us the earth - had the van for 6 weeks to resolve the problems and returned to us in much the same condition! Its made all the worse as my husband has cancer and we bought the motorhome to enjoy time with are small grandchildren whilst he is well enough to do so! I am hoping someone on the forum will be able to advise on away forward with this! Thank you for making me feel less alone with this nightmare & for making me welcome. Linda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Hi again.. Sorry to hear about your situation(..and my apologies for not fully reading your opening post..I hadn't realised that you HAD already taken it back to the dealer... :$ ). If they are failing to put right the faults, it would be worth getting some "official" advice..contact the likes of Trading Standards or C.A.B etc ? :-S If you are a member of either of the "Clubs" (Caravan Club or Camping & Caravan Club), then their legal dept may be worth contacting?... When the dealer realises that you are not taking it lying down, it may just put the rocket up them that they need! ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 If the bed base is solid, then it is a well know problem with damp on the underside of mattresses, we have a similier problem with the dinette bed on our van, but as that bed is rarely used haven't bothered doing anything about it. There is a 'mat' that can be fitted, I'm sure some one can direct you to relavent item. As for the missing bed bits, I'm afraid it's a matter of kicking arse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Linda, it seems you presently have the van back from the dealer. Is there another Chausson dealer you could get the van to? If so, why not get it to them, and ask for a second opinion on whether the bed arrangement is as it should be? Also, ask them to carry out a water ingress check, pointing out the damp seats, and make sure they record their findings. Then you will have evidence as to what is missing, and what is wrong, with which to challenge your supplier. The next bit is harder. You need next to take your evidence, plus your receipted bill of sale for your van, to Citizens' Advice, or Trading Standards, and ask them how to proceed. They should be able to give you general advice plus copies of pro-forma letters you can use, if necessary, to formally notify the supplying dealer of the faults and of any legal action you intend implementing. Before getting into written exchanges, I would suggest contacting the supplying dealer to ask for an appointment with the Managing Director. Take your evidence to that meeting, and tell him you consider his company has not met its obligation to you to make good faults in the van within a reasonable time, and that you now expect him to do so. Press him for firm dates on when they will take the van back for repair, and how long they will need for the repairs. If the date is distant reject it, and point out that they have already had the van for six weeks and achieved nothing, and that further delay is unacceptable. Make notes of what is said and all relevant names, dates, times, who is to do what, and by when. Then, write to the MD confirming the date and time of the meeting, and everything that was agreed, including who is to do it, and when, etc. Then, make sure they get the van on the due date. If things do not progress as promised, and you are being strung along, you will have to consider whether to remove the van from them to another Chausson dealership for repair, and sue the supplying dealer for your costs, or whether to bring an enforcement claim against the supplying dealer to fulfil his obligations to you within a reasonable time. You will need some further legal guidance on this, as it is important that you say the right things in the right order, at the right time, and record and confirm all your contacts with the dealer - be they by phone or other. If you are pushed down the legal route it is unlikely to be quick, and the dealer will probably adopt a defensive stance, and move as slowly as the law will tolerate. For this reason, the legal process has to be treated as the course of last resort. However, it is the backstop when all else has failed, and on the face of it, you should have a good case. If he loses, as I think he would, the defendant becomes liable for your costs. But, negotiation with the dealer is the first route to adopt, trying to build a rapport rather than a conflict, and to shame or embarass them into action rather then bludgeoning them. They need to understand what they are doing to you, and to make the repairs because they accept they must, not because they are being poked by a solicitor. Somehow, you have to get them on your side, seeing things from your point of view. Use emotional blackmail if you must, make them cry, anything - but get them on your side and committed to do a proper job! Not easy, I'm afraid, and I wish you all possible luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterlyn Posted January 8, 2014 Author Share Posted January 8, 2014 Hi thank you all so much for your support -: We have now found a dealer who will assess the motorhome for use for both the damp & what we feel are missing parts on the dinette bed. We have managed to establish a decent relationship with the dealer we purchased from and have been dealing with the owner of the company - he can be intimidating and has at times resorted to some bullying tactics but we have not risen to the bait! My son picked the motorhome up when we purchased it and 'no' he was not shown how the 2nd bed in dining/lounge area worked/a mistake on out part and obviously something they perhaps wished to avoid? On first use of this 2nd bed we discovered a peice of chip board that had been laminated/not very well, and bound with black sticky tape it also had a bolt on it. We did not use and booked into a bed and breakfast as we had our grandchildren with us. On contact with the dealer on are return home he informed us that we needed to take the table of its pedestal set it aside with the table leg, place this peice on top of the lower part of pedestal, (the piece has a round hole in it) then place the table back on top so as to make the base for the bed. We have done this and the base tips and slides and would be extremely dangerous. The poor workmanship of this piece does not seem to be in line with superb workmanship of the motorhome & i do feel chausson would not have produced it? We also have the lounge seats which are so damp (on original collection of the motorhome my son said that the heating in the van had been on and nothing felt damp) - these are just 3 seat pads, which are so damp that you would not allow any individual to sleep/sit on them. Dealer contacted and after muchado took the motorhome back to show room and said/promised faithfuly all would be resolved said he was sending to france for the bed part and that is why it is taking so long -: To summarise when it was returned to us - seats still damp and they had made the same part for bed minus the bolt and black sticky tape. When questioned said it had come from france then backed down and said from another van or someone had given it to them??? Grateful for all support - Linda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Re: The bed The portion that you describe does sound like something a previous owner has knocked up... :-S ...and it does sound as if the dealer *doesn't fully know the product that he is selling and therefore doesn't really know what the bed should consist of anyway?(..*not unheard of but it should still be down to them to find stuff out!). Re: Damp seats. So they were dry when it was first picked it up then?..or were they just "warm" from the heating? (..if they were wet from the start, I suppose there is the chance that they'd left a skylight open,possibly whilst they power washed it? :-S (...but you would've thought that they would've dried out by know!) What happens if you take these cushions into the house to dry them?...are there any signs of wet on the actual wooden seat bases?...are there no signs of water drips, making their way in from the skylight? :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterlyn Posted January 8, 2014 Author Share Posted January 8, 2014 Yes, i think this bed part has been knocked up by previous owner & the dealer is hopeless! He has lied so much about parts from france etc... The damp seats may just have felt dry on picking up because they were warm. Yes we have brought them into the house but they do not dry??? So very strange to say the least - there do not appear to be any obvious leaks in the motorhome where the seats are situated but we are getting a damp assessment done as we are so new to motorhomes and could be missing the obvious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 peterlyn - 2014-01-08 1:30 PM Yes we have brought them into the house but they do not dry??? So very strange to say the least - there do not appear to be any obvious leaks in the motorhome where the seats are situated but we are getting a damp assessment done as we are so new to motorhomes and could be missing the obvious? I seem to recall a "discussion" from quite a while back, where someone's seat cushions wouldn't "dry"...there were various ideas put forward (damp van...dog wee!..etc 8-) ) Maybe someone will remember the thread...and post how it resolved? :-S Getting a damp assessment is certainly a good move though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Lyn, even tho you have established a good relationship with the supplying dealer, you say they are hopeless and tell lies. Not the foundations of a good relationship really. Perhaps the new dealer will at least give you some answers (ammunition) to tackle the supplier with. I'm a bit confused as to why the seat cushions won't dry out inside the house. For whatever reason, if this wont happen inside then they will never appear dry inside the van. HAve you unzipped the covers and tried to dry the inside and covers separately ? If you can get them dry and then back into the van, it may be (for whatever reason ;-) ) that they say dry afterwards. I wish you good luck. PS Where are you based? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJay Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 bolero boy - 2014-01-08 2:00 PM PS Where are you based? Was going to ask same question. Maybe some-one who lives local(ish) to you, would be able to give practical help IE view your van, and help you Hands on help always more useful, IMO You don't need all the stress this must be causing you PJay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterlyn Posted January 8, 2014 Author Share Posted January 8, 2014 Hi - thank you everyone, we live in the Ormskirk, West Lancashire area of the country. I would welcome any support from anyone local who could have a look. My son is going to take to another dealer for assessment next week. I have unzipped and felt inside the seats and the foam seems dry - they are attached throughout by buttons so i would have to take these off to remove! Its so confounding as to why they have never dried - the undersides seem fine but these are a different fabric. The fixed bed at the rear of the motorhome of the same fabric is dry as are the cabin seats. Yes - your right its not a good relationship when someone lies to you but we only found this out on Monday after he returned the motorhome after 6 weeks and proceeded to say he got the bed part from France and then contradicted himself! Prior to this he has handled us with a mixture of bullying, cajoling & some empathy!!! Thank you Lynn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 I wonder, could the lounge seating have been treated with som after-market substance that is giving the wet, or perhaps greasy, feel? Just trying to picture how one set of similar upholstery seems to behaving differently to another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 pepe63 - 2014-01-08 1:50 PM peterlyn - 2014-01-08 1:30 PM Yes we have brought them into the house but they do not dry??? So very strange to say the least - there do not appear to be any obvious leaks in the motorhome where the seats are situated but we are getting a damp assessment done as we are so new to motorhomes and could be missing the obvious? I seem to recall a "discussion" from quite a while back, where someone's seat cushions wouldn't "dry"...there were various ideas put forward (damp van...dog wee!..etc 8-) ) Maybe someone will remember the thread...and post how it resolved? :-S Getting a damp assessment is certainly a good move though... Good shout Pepe. Try this string, particularly Derek Uzzell's post of 3/1/13. Suggestion was urine on the seat covers cab cause moisture retention. As the filling is dry and only the covers feel damp, it sounds at least feasible if the previous owner had small children/dogs - or worse - in the van. Smell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJay Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 bolero boy - 2014-01-08 2:52 PM I wonder, could the lounge seating have been treated with som after-market substance that is giving the wet, or perhaps greasy, feel? Just trying to picture how one set of similar upholstery seems to behaving differently to another. Agree Wonder if the seats have been washed/cleaned , therebye affecting the fabric? It is not difficult to re instate the buttons, you just need a large (12inch) long sharp needle. We re-upholstered a complete three piece suite, with lots of buttons. You can (i think) buy these needles in a upholstery shop Had ours for about 25 years PJay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 These earlier (the 2nd much earlier) forum threads may be useful http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Damp-on-seat-cushions/29906/ http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Damp-under-bed-cushions/5953/ There are several products that address under-mattress (or under-cushions) condensation. Examples here: http://www.shipshapebedding.co.uk/Dry-Mat_Anti_Condensation_Layer.php?li=dry-mat http://www.millbrook-boat-mattresses.com/en/our-range/dry-mesh http://www.hyperventmarine.com/ http://www.naturalmatmarine.co.uk/anti-condensation-underlays/ It does need saying that, if moisture has entered deeply into a seat cushion's foam interior, even if the cushion is brought into the house and dries on the outside, it is likely to become damp when returned to the motorhome. A foam-filled cushion that has become really damp will take a long time to thoroughly dry out. There are some Welcome 75 adverts are here http://www.camping-car-conseil.com/fiche_camping_car.php?idannonce=467 http://www.blackcountrycaravans.co.uk/stocklist/754/2007-chausson-welcome-75-motorhome http://www.highbridgecaravans.co.uk/newmotorhomedetails.php?ID=379 It may well be that Chausson's method of constructing the bed in a Welcome 75's dining/lounge area is close to the dealer's description. The 2nd 'occasional' bed of this type of fixed-bed motorhome can be very much an afterthought on the part of the manufacturer and a real puzzle to make up unless it's been demonstrated by someone in the know (and that's when all the necessary bits are present!) I came across an inquiry on a French forum asking how to make up a Chausson's lounge bed (not relating to a Welcome 75 unfortunately) and the answer involved jig-sawing the cushions around in a less than obvious order, with some cushions being fitted upside-down. So there may be some critical bits missing, or there's a knack that needs a rocket-scientist to work out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterlyn Posted January 8, 2014 Author Share Posted January 8, 2014 Hi Derek, i believe your right about the damp cushions - they have been very wet at sometime in the past (previous owner) and are still trying to dry out - they smelly musty but not of urine! I also agree that the making of the 2nd bed is a minefield - the dealer just did not care, had know knowledge of the 2nd bed and just sold it regardless of missing parts. I'm praying someone may come forward who has this model - Fiat Ducato Chausson Welcome 75, 2008 model - just to give us an idea of what the table looks like when it becomes the 2nd bed. Regards and special thanks Linda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 There is a Chausson specific section on here: http://www.motorhomefacts.com/forum-102.html ...it may be worth asking there? We bought from Highbridge, who are agents I believe. So as well as emailing them, it may also be worth contacting "Chausson UK"(Stowmarket Caravans)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Oops! double post,sorry :$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterlyn Posted January 8, 2014 Author Share Posted January 8, 2014 Hi - thank you so much i have just sent emails. Lynn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 peterlyn - 2014-01-08 2:40 PM I have unzipped and felt inside the seats and the foam seems dry - they are attached throughout by buttons so i would have to take these off to remove! Its so confounding as to why they have never dried - the undersides seem fine but these are a different fabric. The fixed bed at the rear of the motorhome of the same fabric is dry as are the cabin seats. As I posted yesterday, if that bed is used the cushions will get damp, it has a solid base and moisture has nowhere to go except in the cushion or condesate on the table. From experiance of drying cushions on a caravan in similier circumstances they are a bugger to dry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Having spilt an unwanted substance on one of our cushions a while back, I can confirm that even if there is only say 10% wet, this will be squeezed out when the cushion is sat on causing moisture to pass through straight away to the covers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 bolero boy - 2014-01-08 6:17 PM Having spilt an unwanted substance on one of our cushions a while back, I can confirm that even if there is only say 10% wet, this will be squeezed out when the cushion is sat on causing moisture to pass through straight away to the covers. Chris...It's when you find it happening on every seat that you sit on..no matter who's house you're in...now that'd be the time to worry! (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.