hymer1942 Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Morning all, does anyone know if there has been any more decisions on a frame towing in Spain or are we still in the same boat, regards all Barrie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 hymer1942 - 2014-02-11 10:09 AM Morning all, does anyone know if there has been any more decisions on a frame towing in Spain or are we still in the same boat, regards all Barrie I don't think they were intending to change the law, were they ? :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJay Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 It's more likely to become the outlawed in other countries, rather than other way round!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 It's a gamble Barrie and not loaded in your favour...... Two A framers on site I was on in October, one had been pulled and fined twice, the other not. So.....are you feeling lucky....well are you? :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Jones Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 The only "decision" involved is yours - do you want to risk breaking a very clear Spanish law, or don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 This is NOT aimed at Barrie at all. :-D It always amazes me the number of people who will knowingly break the law in another country because it suits them! I wonder how many think about the consequences if they have an accident in Spain whilst towing using an A-frame - if they had caused the accident ... would their insurance company pay out? 8-) If it was definitely illegal to use an A-frame in the UK I wonder it they would still do it here? :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancepar Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Is the Spanish Law referred to, that only a recognized recovery vehicle can tow a broken down vehicle? I doubt if you could persuade La Policia that a motorhome towing a fully functioning car is any different (lol) . B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 lancepar - 2014-02-11 7:45 PM Is the Spanish Law referred to, that only a recognized recovery vehicle can tow a broken down vehicle? I doubt if you could persuade La Policia that a motorhome towing a fully functioning car is any different (lol) . B-) As I understand it the law in Spain says it is illegal to tow any vehicle on its wheels. I assume that also applies to official recovery vehicles. Seems a pretty straightforward law to me so I'm surprised it is ' discussed ' so often. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJay Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 This is a post where BGD imput was always useful. Shame we lost a good contributor, because of some nasty postings!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 One BGD link here, regarding legality in France, about half way down page 2. Tried to find his seminal post on the law in Spain, where he translated the whole Spanish law, and repeated it in Spanish for those sufficiently fluent - but too late and I need my shut-eye! :-) Maybe tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Brian Kirby - 2014-02-12 12:34 AM One BGD link here, regarding legality in France, about half way down page 2. Tried to find his seminal post on the law in Spain, where he translated the whole Spanish law, and repeated it in Spanish for those sufficiently fluent - but too late and I need my shut-eye! :-) Maybe tomorrow. BGD's 27 September 2011 3:15 PM posting here http://tinyurl.com/pr2k6l7 is probaly what you had in mind. The relevant A-frame-related chunk of text reads as follows:- "8. - AUXILIARY TRANSPORT VEHICLES ...Consultations have also been made on the possibility of a motorhome being allowed to tow a car; but that possibility is prohibited by Article 9.3 of the General Rules of vehicles that prohibits the circulation of a motor vehicle dragging another, except when it is damaged or broken down and cannot be towed by another vehicle specifically intended for that purpose, in which case it is allowed only to tow to the nearest town or village where it can be detained without hindering the traffic, and always provided they are not travelling on a motorway or highway. Notwithstanding the foregoing, the circulation of a combination composed of a motor vehicle and a trailer or semi trailer on which another vehicle is transported, is allowed if the combination meets the conditions for driving on public roads and is approved according to Directives 70/156/EEC and 94/20/EC and also does not exceed the maximum permitted length for these combinations which is that of 18.75 meters for trailers and 16.50 meters for semi trailers." The situation in Spain is discussed on this webpage of the CAR-A-TOW website http://www.caratow.com/legal.php (There's little doubt that, should there be a relaxation of the Spanish attitude to A-framing, it would be all over motorhome internet forums quicker than lager turns to p*ss.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 hymer1942 - 2014-02-11 10:09 AM Morning all, does anyone know if there has been any more decisions on a frame towing in Spain or are we still in the same boat, regards all Barrie I think that 'the Boat' is still the same Barrie, I think that Spain is a 'No-No' for A-framing. Just to let you know that you are not Alone in 'A-Framing' though, I bought a 2nd hand (2011) 'Car-a-Tow' frame this year, my car is being converted next week, not cheap, but cheaper than a trailer (a new one) and anyway a Trailer plus car would go over my max. towing limit of 1040kg. So, doing it for the first time this year. Mainly because of the 'Anti-motorhoming' stance of many British councils of Tourist destinations, I believe that later this year even stricter regulations are to be bought in, something about the distance between axles on towed 'braked' trailers over 750kg. Which will refer to cars towed on their own wheels. I am relying on the law NOT being retrospective, me and a few thousand other A-Framers who tow in the UK. If they were 'Unsafe' and it could be proven to me, that they are. Then I wouldn't have bought one. But they are not, hence Thousands of them in use (especially in the USA) and no large Blip in the accident statistics. 'Keep on A-Framing' Ray ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peacock312 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I have read so much about Aframes,there legality etc.i don't dispute any of it,but I have to say I have just returned form Spain after three months there,I met several brave,defiant people who towed all way down France and across Spain without any problems at all.some went via Bilbao down to the costas. Some said police cars had passed both ways and they we're not stopped. I gave up towing last year because my wife could not drive if I was stopped. If you have the nerve you can still do it and if you keep out towns or villages,don't break the law in any way,in my opinion you have a very good chance to get away with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Oops! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 peacock312 - 2014-02-12 5:02 PM .. If you have the nerve you can still do it and if you keep out towns or villages,don't break the law in any way,in my opinion you have a very good chance to get away with it. But if towing with an A framing in Spain, then surely, they WILL be breaking the law... ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peacock312 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I meant if they don't break the law in any other way.ie drawing attention to themselves,they have a good chance of NOT being STOPPED. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave225 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 No disrespect but that is a gamble. You could say the same about breaking a speed limit here in the middle of the night or even driving while under the influence of drink, again on a back road. Whatever way you look at it, it is illegal and getting away with it does not justify it as a recommendation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Well said that man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJP Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 The rights and wrongs of A Framing in Spain go on for ever. If you do this will that happen etc. etc. We are talking a very very small minority who break the Spanish law by A framing. Now, what about the other law that IS broken by possibly the majority of motorhomers in EVERY country. That is breaking the law by having a motorhome that is overweight. Not only Illegal BUT DANGEROUS. Unlike A frames which are only illegal in some countries. So all you anti A Framers and do gooder's, I ask is your own house in order? If you answer, be honest. Lets debate that one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 so whats all this two wrongs make a right BS.....they're not legal anywhere in europe...the situation here is that they have not been tested in a court, and 2014 type approval regs will probably fix that!lol Get a life for pitys sake....or a caravan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I agree as well, why do people who insist on breaking the law go on and on trying to justify it. Only need to look at the videos Dave Newall posted links to with them reversing to see how dangerous they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 DJP - 2014-02-12 9:07 PM The rights and wrongs of A Framing in Spain go on for ever. If you do this will that happen etc. etc. We are talking a very very small minority who break the Spanish law by A framing. Now, what about the other law that IS broken by possibly the majority of motorhomers in EVERY country. That is breaking the law by having a motorhome that is overweight. Not only Illegal BUT DANGEROUS. Unlike A frames which are only illegal in some countries. So all you anti A Framers and do gooder's, I ask is your own house in order? If you answer, be honest. Lets debate that one! I’m definitely not a ‘do-gooder’ and the idea that anyone can be considered ‘anti-A-framing’ is, frankly, weird. But I’ve always considered the UK A-framing community an ineffective bunch. Discussions about A-framing commonly include statements on the lines of “I’ve been towing a car on an A-frame for many years throughout Europe, and I’ve never had any problems.” But, if you asked whether each European country in which the person had been towing has laws that relate to A-framing and, if so, what those laws are, it's highly unlikely that a credible and informed answer would be forthcoming. It’s evident that Spain has a law that affects A-framing and that this law is applied to motorcaravanners visiting that country and towing a car. It is claimed (by French authorities) that France has a law forbidding the practice, but the law does not seem to be applied to anyone. Other European countries may be like Spain, may be like France, or may have no laws affecting A-framing. But, rather than actually research what the legal position is in each country, the UK A-framing community chooses to focus on things like safety, 'fairness' and pan-European homologation. You’ve said “...Unlike A frames which are only illegal in some countries.” Which countries fall into the ‘illegal’ category and which do not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 DJP - 2014-02-12 9:07 PM ...breaking the law by having a motorhome that is overweight. Not only Illegal BUT DANGEROUS. Unlike A frames which are only illegal in some countries. a) So all you anti A Framers and do gooder's, I ask is your own house in order? b) If you answer, be honest. Lets debate that one! To: a) Yes, thanks for asking. b) Check the thread title..it's about A Frames... ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 lennyhb - 2014-02-12 11:53 PM I agree as well, why do people who insist on breaking the law go on and on trying to justify it. Only need to look at the videos Dave Newall posted links to with them reversing to see how dangerous they are.[/quote No more dangerous than trying to reverse a small luggage trailer, (and yes I have tried that !), NO-ONE has proved to me that they are Dangerous, technically illegal in much of Europe I do not dispute, and never have. Speeding,Driving overloaded, drink driving all illegal and yes VERY dangerous. But A-Framing ? a technical infringment only, and it's not the A-Frame in Spain thats illegal, it's towing another vehicle 'on it's wheels' behind another vehicle thats illegal. And (again !!) why not a Caravan ? because after having 'Had one' I consider them 'borderline' dangerous and unstable, especially under certain conditions ie. Downhill at speed, Crosswinds, passing High sided vehicles coming too close, AND I don't want to have to run a large car/4x4 ALL the time to tow it, much rather have a motorhome, and tow my economical 'everyday' car when I need to. Know that all of this will fall on 'Deaf Ears' to the 'Unconverted'. Just putting foward 'the reasons why' they are popular. ;-) Ray PS I know that the title of this post is 'A-Frame Towing in Spain' I have no intention of doing it in Spain. (my wife doesn't drive) .and wouldn't take the risk anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Derek Uzzell - 2014-02-13 8:27 AM I’m definitely not a ‘do-gooder’ and the idea that anyone can be considered ‘anti-A-framing’ is, frankly, weird. But I’ve always considered the UK A-framing community an ineffective bunch. Certainly is ' weird ' that a law in Spain can cause so much argument on a UK forum. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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