FIAT X250 2.3Ltr Engine problem

[Brian Kirby]

euroserv - 2015-08-12 3:02 PM.........................

That raises the real question. What is the life expectancy of a van or base vehicle? I think most were designed to have a primary life of 3 or 4 years and then a more relaxed life of 2 or 3 more before wearing out. I understand that motor-homes generally do a lot less miles than a van but should we really expect them to last 20 or 30 years?

The problem is, Nick, that those who buy them do expect them to last that long (or at lest comfortably over ten years), and spend quite a bit of time and money trying to ensure the bodywork and chassis elements get treated against corrosion, to ensure they do.

 

However, there seems to be another little twist on this, which is that quite a few folk eschew new models in anticipation of teething problems, preferring to buy near the end of the model run when, as your above post bears out, the problems should have been engineered out. So, when support for the series is eventually withdrawn, although their vehicles will be a lot newer than those from early in the production run, they will be equally impossible to repair!

 

Not sure whether the logical conclusion of that is to buy the new model and be damned, or wait, and grin and bear it, or just cut one's wrists! In the meantime, don't plan on retiring until this all gets sorted! :-D

[aandy]

Thanks Nick, very helpful. As I intend to keep the van for some time I had considered the possibility of parts becoming unobtainable but thought I was probably being over cautious. Since it clearly is an issue I will go for the newest vehicle finances allow.

 

Andy

[Thomasu2443]

Hi Nick

Thanks for your prompt reply. That info is very reassuring as the left hand pipe does indeed join up to the Vertical vacuum pipe via a "T" joint, so thanks for clearing that up for me. The replacement solenoid is on its way so keeping everything crossed that this will resolve the problems!

Please ignore the pm that I sent you this evening as I did not realise that you had replied on the forum.

Thanks once again for sharing your knowledge it is very much appreciated.

Regards Tom

[gb1]

Hi Nick,

 

I have had a similar problem I have had my Fiat Ducato 2.3 Autotrail 2012 Chassis No 02123918 for 8 months when the EML came on and went into limp mode I took it to a local auto electician and he couldn't see anything wrong then and he wiped the error codes and it has been fine for the last 3 months. I set off on holiday 2 weeks ago ang two mile from my destination Caterbury the same happened again Check Engine EML and a loss of power. Thee AA arrived and they logged on with their laptop and reported two error codes P068A Battery Connection Detection and P0238 Turbocharger boost-pres, sensor A. Calculated error. They then wiped the error coder to get the vehicle out of limp mode and escorted me to the site. I then took the vehicle to a Fiat dealers in Cantebury they said that a turbo actuator pipe was fitted incorrectly, this could be the problem. They refitted this with no charge and sent me on my way. They also advised that if it occurs again it will need a turbo solenoid as his may be the problem

 

I have been all over the south coast and just heading north with my final stop in Tewkesbury and just pulling in the site and Boosh it comes on again. I have just rang a local Fiat commercial dealer in Gloucester and told him all this and he says it sounds like the turbo has gone and a new one will be £1000!!

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

Regards

 

Gary

[Tracker]

Unimpressed with the service from various garages and concerned about use and possible problems far from home abroad I bought a cheap code reader and clearer from Amazon.

 

It worked well at least twice on a 2009 Fiat 2.3 Autotrail and again on our previous 2.2 Peugeot Warwick but has not been needed on our newer 2011 Peugeot 2.2 so i don't know if it will work or not?

 

This was the model and it may be worth you looking inro the options and maybe talking to the vendor if only for low cost peace of mind but I believe this device has not worked for everyone, but at least Amazon will take it back and refund if it does not.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B006WG7KGS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[aandncaravan]

GB1, the two fault codes are very different yet both may potentially have a poor electrical connection as their source? Like an Earth strap fault.

The fact that a 'Battery Connection' issue has arisen that might easily affect the resistance values of all the sensors, is exactly the type of error a poor Earth strap may generate.

 

Suggest you either get the Earth strap replaced or fit a second one?

Lots of info on threads here if you search.

 

 

 

[spospe]

Tracker - 2016-09-01 8:12 PM

 

but I believe this device has not worked for everyone, but at least Amazon will take it back and refund if it does not.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B006WG7KGS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

I have one of these and can confirm that it has worked well on both OBD1 and OBD2 vehicles, both petrol and diesel. The last car I used it on was my daughter's 2006 Skoda Fabia, which is I believe OBD1, so it should work OK on a 2.3 2013 Ducato, which is OBD2.

[jonnyenglish]

Hello Nick,and anyone else who stumbles on this page after searching their engine fault codes. I include a brief summary of my problem and it's resolution.

it's an IVECO 2009 35S13 2.3l 96 kW and about a year ago i had intermittent EDC light on running a warmed up engine. My independant local garage reported a 28B 'intermittent short to +12 on gas valve actuator, above max thershold, ' although I'm in france so it was that, in french..

I replaced the EGR vacuum solenoid first of all ( easiest and cheapest and it does control GAS flow, like the error reported, and it does make a sort of buzzing sound, like it's on the blink , turns out it's normal) all to no avail, but now I have a new one, so that's something. At first, there were no symptoms aside the EDC light flashing, but more recently, the engine has suffered short bursts of power loss, particularly when running with little throttle input or when lifting eg changing gear, Hard acceleration has not been affected. and finally, the thing would show symptoms whilst idling, a little soot in the exhaust gas, short 'dips' in idle speed. At this point, i removed the black flexible from the throttle body ( comes from intercooler ) and could see, at idle, that the throttle valve runs 80% closed ( seemingly normal ) but was occasionally slamming shut for around 1 s at a time, random intervals, clearly not normal.

So I found a magneti marelli replacement air throttle body online, with the little cable adapter for 245€ delivered, fitted it on the driveway, and the van is cured.

Notes regarding the installation experience.. the adapter cable has only 3 wires in it's loom that goes from the 6 pin magneti body connector to the 4 pin iveco loom side. So apparently, my van would be missing the 'throttle position' feedback. Well I asked nick ( thanks) and the supplier (returns policy !) , and I now know from experience, it doesn't matter. works fine, don't worry.

As far as the intervention goes, all 6 bolts came out a dream, all 13 mm. One spanner, one socket and a littl'un for the jubilee clip on the air line. I re-used the gaslets, that were not stuck ( although I left the small one on the end of the egr input pipe, did't see the point disturbing it ) . I dangled a vacuum cleaner in the inlet manifold while wiping stuff, to avoid dirt ingress, took an hour, can't believe my luck. The only things in my way were the plastic clip on cylinder head trim and the brake fluid level sensor wire that I unclipped. Had to shove a bit of thick loom back and forth too.

 

Well there you go, feel free to ask me about it, One day, i'll take the old valve apart to find it's weakness!

 

I have to admit, it's not a motorhome, it's a panel van, but in my defence, I have a camper on a transit chassis that, touch wood, runs great.

 

Jonathan

[FourOaksMan]

Had the engine light come on with juddering, symptoms of a misfire but managed to get home. Today looked under the bonnet and discovered a split in the rubber tube going into the vacuum solenoid valve (on the plate hanging down inside the engine bay) Rectified that and on the first run the light stayed on. Had lunch went out again for a short run and no light! Guess that was the cause of the juddering. Any way I will take it to have the codes checked to ensure nothing else is amiss. Forunately I have a 12 month warranty and only had a month with 32000 odd on the clock - not bad for a 2009 vehicle.

[PeteH]

Hi

 

Long story, short, Saturday last the EMC came up on the Dash. Called out the RAC, the guy, took some readings :-

 

Diagnostic Codes

 

RAC DIAGNOSTIC SYSTEM

 

System Type: ENGINE

 

Name: EOBD

 

DTC: P0638,Throttle actuator control (TAC) , bank 1 - range/performance problem

 

System Type: ENGINE SYSTEM TEST/VALUES

 

Name: F1AE0481D - BOSCH EDC16C39 CF4 EOBD - 2.3L - 88 (120)

 

F1AE0481N - BOSCH EDC16C39 CF4 EOBD - 2.3L - 96 (131)

 

F1AE3481C - BOSCH EDC16C39 CF4 EOBD - 2.3L

 

F1AE3481D - MARELLI 8F3 CF5/EOBD - 2.3L - 96 (131)

 

F1AE3481E - DIAGNOSE - 2.3L - 109 (148)

 

F1AE3481G - BOSCH EDC16C39 CF4 EOBD - 2.3L - 81 (110)

 

F1AE3481G - DIAGNOSE - 2.0L - 81 (110)

 

DTC: P0530,AC pressure sensor

 

DTC: P0638,Throttle control valve

 

DTC: P0401,EGR valve

 

 

Ignore A/C pressure sensor code, its probably just needing some gas.

However, Throttle control valve and EGR, codes are a bit of a worry.

Having read the thread (not all of it) It would appear that at the very least a Physical clean may be required. Before I go down the road of ripping lumps of Engine off, on the driveway in the cold. Has anyone ever achieved success with "Engine Cleaners" i.e. Wynns etc?. Even if it just gets me into the new year and milder weather.

The RAC guy, deleted the codes, and E-Mailed me the printout, The EMC light is back on again, so it looks like it is not a "one off".

 

This PM, I took a look, to see what is required. and noticed the the end of one of the vaccuum hoses was split. I have taped it with self amagamating tape for the time being. And have cleared the Fault codes. Looking at the post from Four Oaks man, I now wonder if that is the whole issue. time will tell I supose?.

[euroserv]

Hello PeteH,

 

You will have to let us know which engine you have if we are to help. All we know so far is that it is an X250 with the 2.3 engine but is it a Euro 4 or a Euro 5? Euro 4 ran from 2006 until about 2013 when the change was gradually made to Euro 5 by 2014.

 

Look forward to hearing from you.

Nick

[PeteH]

Hi

 

Suspect it is Euro4, Reg Date 2007 (07), so likely manufactured circa 2006?.

 

Got to take it up to Tyneside next week, so I should have an idea by then. If the EMC re-appearers then I will look to remove the Valve

[euroserv]

For some reason i did not notice that you had repaired the end of the rubber pipe from the solenoid. That is very likely to be the end of it for now.

 

Because yours is a Euro4, at some time in the future you will get a similar problem and P0638 will reappear. It's unfortunately inevitable that eventually your throttle body will fail and require replacement. These early units were very poorly designed and i have replaced maybe a hundred of them so far.

 

Better to know about that and be prepared for it i guess.

[PeteH]

Hi

 

Yes the Dreaded EML came back on returning from South Shields. So Throttle body is the next Move I guess. Have seen one on Flea bay @ £195. The vendor gives Part Number(s):- PART NUMBER: 71724306, 504351131, 504099669, 504345920???. It LOOK`s correct in the Picture?.

 

That is a Big change from the Quoted Fiat Price which was in excess of 300+vat!.

 

Pete.

 

 

[PeteH]

PeteH - 2017-12-19 5:59 AM

 

Hi

 

Yes the Dreaded EML came back on returning from South Shields. So Throttle body is the next Move I guess. Have seen one on Flea bay @ £195. The vendor gives Part Number(s):- PART NUMBER: 71724306, 504351131, 504099669, 504345920???. It LOOK`s correct in the Picture?.

 

That is a Big change from the Quoted Fiat Price which was in excess of 300+vat!.

 

Pete.

 

 

Found THIS on Amazon, looks decidedly like the "affected Part" of the Throttle body without the Bend.

At just over £70. If it fits?.

 

Pete

[euroserv]

Hello.

That picture does look a lot like the latest item minus the plastic pipe and it will undoubtedly be very useful in the future for replacement purposes but not for your needs now. The original item that is probably still attached to your vehicle has an aluminium pipe that is not detatchable from the rest of the body. You will need a complete unit this time. Sorry.

N

[PeteH]

PeteH - 2017-12-19 7:40 AM

 

PeteH - 2017-12-19 5:59 AM

 

Hi

 

Yes the Dreaded EML came back on returning from South Shields. So Throttle body is the next Move I guess. Have seen one on Flea bay @ £195. The vendor gives Part Number(s):- PART NUMBER: 71724306, 504351131, 504099669, 504345920???. It LOOK`s correct in the Picture?.

 

That is a Big change from the Quoted Fiat Price which was in excess of 300+vat!.

 

Pete.

 

 

UPDATE:-

 

Decided to carry out some practical tests, Removed the inlet hose to the Throttle control valve and managed to see with a mirror that the flap v/v was clean and appears to work, Also had a good look at the EGR with an endoscope. Cannot see anything Physical. Connected the Computer via USB the the OBD port and ran Multiecuscan Software. Powered up and the EGR operation appears normal as does the Throttle control valve, with the exception that the re-action of both looked to be slow? Watching via the mirror the Throttle valve closes with a snap and appears to open fully as indicated by the reading on the laptop.

 

I then removed the Plug from the Solenoid, which instantly brought up the MIL. Turning attention to the Solenoid I removed it from the Vehicle and bench tested it with a Battery (13.2V). Blowing through the ports whilst connecting and disconnecting the power made no difference. So I am assuming the Solenoid is at Fault. There are only two wires so if it don't open and shut it is likely that that is the issue?.

 

Bite on the bullet time, Just ordered New Solenoid off Flea Bay £60, delivered Fri/Sat. Best price seen, and the correct Part no as On the existing one.

 

 

[PeteH]

Further update. Solenoid arrived and fitted, But a further Mystery. Whilst waiting for part to arrive I Took some Readings on the wiring Plug, Ignition On 8.65V, Engine running 10.85V. I know it`s a CANBUS system, but would have expected to find 12+V (battery Voltage)?

 

Ran the Diagnostics after fitting and the EGR and Throttle valve Numbers are OK and respond to accelerator (I Think). But there is still a lag of nearly 1minute before the readings return to zero, after the accelerator pedal has closed?. MIL light out (again). I now have to take it for a longish run to see if it re-appears.

 

Pete

[PeteH]

Out of curiosity, In case I have to go the Throttle body or EGR route. Does anyone know what the Correct Part Numbers are for the EGR. and the Updated Throttle Body?

 

[kevina]

I'm resurrecting this thread because I now have P0638 at nearly 60,000 miles and 10 years old; I did seal the scuttle early though so that may account for the longevity. Having removed the air hose from the TB inlet the valve is indeed more or less stuck, after a bit of tweaking it will close from 30 degrees and I can force it to 90 but there is no way its going to free up.

 

I'm happy about the parts and the work required but my question is this. There was black oil inside the bottom of the hose (where it was dammed by the TB inlet) and a smear of a coating inside the TB although it really just looked clean but wet. It wasn't "gunky", just like dirty engine oil which covered the back of my hand. Is this normal?

[euroserv]

A light coating of oil is perfectly normal. Not a cause for concern.

[kevina]

Thanks Nick

[kachoong]

 

So I'm kinda similar issues with my 2007 2.3 Ducato.

 

Belching LOTS of black smoke out when revving under load and even while stationary. Don't get any hesitation or stalling, and since I have only just bought the van (no black smoke when I drove it down from where I bought it) it's hard to say if there's any loss of power as I know nothing different. Have checked the various pipes between intercooler/turbo etc, can't see any cracks or splits. The join between the throttle body to the pipe to the intercooler seemed a little loose so threw on a new hoseclip which hasn't resolved the issue.

 

Took the chance to have a look at the throttle body, the flap seems to be moving freely and springs back to position nicely. Have put some injector cleaner in the tank to see if that quietens it down but no joy so far.

 

The oil does seem over full, which someone on another forum said could be a sign of injector issues?

[Pytlak]

Hi Euroserv,

 

I would like to amend your valuable post where you mention correct part numbers for the throttle body gaskets. You say that there are no studs on the new type throttle body, which is correct but you do not need to buy any screws, you can easily transfer the studs from the old throttle body to the new one, exactly as I did it when replacing mine on 2007 Adria 660SP with 2.3 130HP Multijet. If the studs are badly corroded on the old throttle body you should rather buy new studs, which is better than using screws.

 

 

 

euroserv - 2014-02-28 12:03 PM

 

Hi Roger,

 

You can get away with not removing the radiator sometimes. I did one this week and having removed the slam panel I just lifted the radiator up on the right hand side and moved it forwards a bit. This gave me enough room to get onto the awkward bolt with a long extension and standard socket. This bolt is always the most stubborn since it is the only one that is not in a blind hole. The oxidisation builds up on the other end of the screw and starts filling the hole up! On this occasion I was very lucky and it seems that so have you. If the screw had broken; which is more common, you would have needed more room to get things sorted out and that would have been exit time for the radiator.

 

I do use new gaskets and apply copper or aluminium grease to every hole and thread (to make sure). It makes things a bit smelly when you start it up again while it burns away but it makes the job a lot easier next time. You don't really have to use the new gaskets; I think the old ones should be fine but for the sake of a few pounds when you have done so much seems barely worth it.

 

The large gasket is 504084278 (£3.92) and the small ones are 504341194 (£1.69) of which you will probably need 2.

The replacement throttle body differs from the original in that it has no studs on the EGR side, so you will need 2x M8 x 25 (or 30) screws to fit the EGR flange to it. Grease them well!

 

Also apply grease to every single screw that you fit on the front of the van for the slam panel, radiator mounts, bumper and grille panels. You won't regret it in years to come.

 

Nick

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[Derek Uzzell]

Welcome to the Out&AboutLive forums, Martin.

 

I notice that the four photo-files you have attached have a .heic file extension.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Efficiency_Image_File_Format

 

These forums are 2005 vintage and their software hasn’t been much modified since then, so I’m not sure whether .heic files can generally be viewed by forum-members.

 

I’ve converted three of your photos into .jpg files and suitably reduced their size, but I can’t seem to handle the 0571 image. Anyway, the three files displayed below should adequately explain the time-honoured method of employing two nuts to remove studs.

 

If not, there’s a YouTube video-clip here

 

 

(I’ve now added the 0571 file - I hadn’t realised how large the .jpg version would initially be...)