derek500 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 I think I've given myself a major headache!! I'm in the process of importing my eight year old MH first registered in Spain. I'm struggling to get a COC from McLouis (don't reply to emails or answer phone). I need the COC to give to the VCA along with proof of the work I've had done (headlights, fog light, MPH speedo). As I can't get one, the DVLA have suggested I get a basic IVA inspection (£199), but this will show the Co2 emissions (I believe), which apparently aren't shown on the COC. This, I believe means I will be taxed on Co2 emissions and not as a PLG and would make the road tax an absolute fortune compared to what a regular MH would pay. Any ideas what the Co2 emissions are for a Ducato 2.8 146bhp engine, I've searched and can't find anything? Any advice would be gratefully received. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 I don't see how the inspection would be able to measure the CO2 emissions as they tend to be vehicle specific measured under a variety of driving conditions each Motorhome body will give different results. I believe the 2.8 Fiat of that era was Euro 3 compliant some members of the Hymer Club have had this confirmed by Fiat, does not necessary means yours is. Edit:- Just looked through the Inspection Manuals, they only appear to carry out a basic MOT smoke & emission test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 I would persevere with contacting McLouis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek500 Posted February 19, 2014 Author Share Posted February 19, 2014 lennyhb - 2014-02-19 10:51 AM I don't see how the inspection would be able to measure the CO2 emissions as they tend to be vehicle specific measured under a variety of driving conditions each Motorhome body will give different results. I believe the 2.8 Fiat of that era was Euro 3 compliant some members of the Hymer Club have had this confirmed by Fiat, does not necessary means yours is. Edit:- Just looked through the Inspection Manuals, they only appear to carry out a basic MOT smoke & emission test. That sounds hopeful. On the V55/5 form, question 35 is CO2 g/km and in the notes it says "Take this information from the COC (the combined figure). As I'm taking the IVA route as I don't have a COC, I'll leave it blank. Hopefully, the lack of that info will get me PLG category. Q37 Particulates (pm) g/km or g/KWh. Notes say take this info from the COC. You do not need to fill this in if you're providing an IVA certificate. Q38 is CO g/km or g/KWh the notes say "Take this information from the COC. If you do not have this information you can leave this section blank. Is Q35 the one they decide which class of taxation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek500 Posted February 19, 2014 Author Share Posted February 19, 2014 JudgeMental - 2014-02-19 12:09 PM I would persevere with contacting McLouis I am. If I get somewhere I still have time to cancel my IVA inspection and get a refund. I've been contacting their Italian office. They don't seem to have a UK importer any more who could perhaps help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 http://www.mclouis.com/2014/index.php/en/contact Please dont waste your time emailing, call Italy using a cheap 1p a minute call service....have your VIN and model information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 We had a Burstner T585 2.8 146hp sourced new in France in 2007, so about the right generation. I still have both German and French CoCs, and neither give the CO2 figures (left blank on the CoC). At that time, from memory, the DVLA did not, in any case, require the CO2 information for UK registration, and I don't think motorhomes, even those made abroad, that were sold in UK came with CoCs, so the requirement should not, logically, arise. However, CO, HC, NOx, HC + NOx, Particulates, and smoke density data are all given on the German CoC (but not the French). My suggestion would be to first check whether this data really is required for a vehicle of this age, as it would not have been at the time for UK registration (not relevant to vehicles other than cars) and if it is, then turn to Fiat for the information, as I strongly doubt that further emissions tests are carried out by the converters (too complex/costly, I would have thought, to test every model with every available engine/transmission option), so my guess is that they would have relied on Fiat's data. You may find Fiat UK lack the relevant data on this engine as it was not imported to UK, but they should be able to obtain it from Fiat Italy. However, I'm still puzzled about the requirement as some folk import much older vehicles that were built well before emissions controls were even thought of! There must, it seems to me, be a working way around this where the data was not required/published at the time of manufacture. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek500 Posted February 19, 2014 Author Share Posted February 19, 2014 JudgeMental - 2014-02-19 1:42 PM http://www.mclouis.com/2014/index.php/en/contact Please dont waste your time emailing, call Italy using a cheap 1p a minute call service....have your VIN and model information. Keep getting 'unavailable number'. I've spoken to DVLA again and they've told me all motor caravans are taxed as PLG and the level of tax is based on engine size and weight. Mine will be £225 (2800cc and 3400kg). Hopefully he's right. The Basic IVA route is a lot cheaper than the buying of a COC (if I could get one) and paying VCA for mutual recognition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I'm now in the same boat as struggling with. DVLA paperwork, as you used to bring it into their local office and they would complete forms and tell you rates. But now you have to do everything by post.. My 10 month old 2013 van is Euro 5 and emissions are quoted on COC.....I will call them but from past experiences don't trust them to be honest! Just read some earlier threads and seems I might be better of declaring it a PLG and see what happens...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek500 Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 Update. Had the IVA on March 13 and it passed. Sent the paperwork to DVLA the same day and received my V5 yesterday. Registered as PLG with an 06 plate which matches its March 06 first registration date in Spain. £200 for the IVA works out a lot cheaper than the £100 VCA 'mutual recognition' fee and the cost of a COC (if I could have got one £200+). Used Adrian Flux to get insurance on chassis number . Got a good quote from Saga, but noticed they'd put 2.5l for engine size. When I told them it was 2.8l they bumped it up £80!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 derek500 - 2014-02-19 4:35 PM ...I've spoken to DVLA again and they've told me all motor caravans are taxed as PLG and the level of tax is based on engine size and weight. Mine will be £225 (2800cc and 3400kg). Hopefully he's right.... Historically (until 1 August 2013) the Vehicle Excise Duty (VED) classification for 'motor caravans' always depended on whether the vehicle's authorised maximum overall weight was up to 3500kg or over 3500kg. Over 3500kg, the vehicle was classified as Private/Heavy Goods (class TC10). 3500kg or lower, the vehicle was classed as Private/Light Goods (class TC11). The VED rates within TC11 also depended on the vehicle's engine capacity, but engine capacity was irrelevant for TC10. These two forum threads go into detail http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Hints-and-Tips/Euro-4-Road-Fund-Licence/30750/ http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Motorhome-Road-Tax-Clarification-/33014/ but, to summarise DVLA's 1 August 2013 rule change, I've copied below Andy C's final posting from the first thread "I've just asked my contact at DVLA about the new rules since 1st August. He sent me a copy of the joint statement produced by DVLA and NCC to explain the situation: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From 1st August 2013 a change was introduced for the licensing of all vehicles type approved within the M1SP category and this includes motorhomes/motorcaravans. It is important to note that when licensing newly registered vehicles in this category for the first time, DVLA representatives should only be considering the Certificate of Conformity (CoC) for the final stage vehicle. Although, all other CoCs (ie first stage, second stage CoCs) relating to the vehicle must also be provided to the DVLA. Where original first or second stage base vehicles are converted by manufacturers to a motorhome, the conversion process will affect the original emissions figure stated by the first stage base vehicle manufacturer. Therefore, most motorhome/motorcaravan manufacturers/converters do not quote a CO2 emissions figure on the final stage CoC. Accordingly, the CO2 emissions field on the final stage CoC will normally be left blank when registering the vehicle via Automatic First Registration & Licensing AFRL or with a V55/4 form. Where no CO2 emissions are present on the final stage CoC for the finished vehicle it must be licensed in the Private Light Goods or Private Heavy Goods Vehicle taxation class, depending on weight. If however the motorhome/motorcaravan manufacturer/converter has stated a CO2 emissions figure on the final stage CoC for the finished vehicle then the motorhome/motorcaravan should be licensed in a vehicle taxation class based on its CO2 emissions. Where the CO2 figure is provided on the final stage CoC this will be captured and recorded on the vehicle record. If you are unsure as to which CoC covers the final stage approval for the finished vehicle it is the one which has the same type approval number as that stated on the V55/4 Registration form. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Andy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek500 Posted March 28, 2014 Author Share Posted March 28, 2014 So if you've got a COC which has a high CO2 can you decide not to use it and go down the IVA route like I did and get PLG taxation? Not being able to get a COC for my McLouis could have been a blessing in disguise. The whole exercise has shown that importing a used MH without a COC and going down the IVA route is more economical than buying a COC and paying the VCA fee and risking having a high CO2 declared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 If a motorhome (imported or otherwise) has European Community Whole Vehicle Type Approval (ECWVTA) it should have a Certificate of Conformity (COC) and the DVLA's expectation would be that a COC must be provided when such a vehicle was being submitted for UK-registration. If, say, a 'personal importer' of a motorhome with ECWVTA (and all motorhomes built in the last few years should have ECWVTA) discovered that the vehicle's COC carried a high CO2 figure, I'm very doubtful that the DVLA would allow the importer to take the IVA route instead of providing the COC. It's such an obvious ploy to obtain a PLG classification rather than an emissions-based classification that it's bound to have been spotted long ago. Otherwise one could import a brand-new Ferrari, take the IVA route and get it classed as PLG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek500 Posted March 28, 2014 Author Share Posted March 28, 2014 Ferrari owners couldn't put motor caravan or whatever as type of vehicle on the V55, which is one of the categories that can have PLG, and the Vosa tester might spot it's a car. There was no expectation from DVLA that I should provide a COC and they suggested the IVA route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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