enodreven Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Hi, Not to sure how to explain this, but I seem to be getting water in the metal channel that holds the rubber window seal. After I have wiped any water from off the window and on the rubber seal, if I press the seal itself water rises from under it. What actually happens is I wipe the window dry and then leave it for a few minutes and I find water has acumulated again even though the window is dry, and I have just found the reason is there is water in the channel under the seal. Anyone had similar problems and has anyone any suggestions on how to fix it Thanks Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Brian, van model and make of windows would help. Could be something minor, with the extreme weather we have had is it just a case of the hollow section of the rubber seal has filled with water. or could be you have a serious water ingress problem and the wall around the window has a quantity of water in it and it is filtering into the window channel. Hope for you sake it's the first option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enodreven Posted February 28, 2014 Author Share Posted February 28, 2014 Hi Lenny thanks for the suggestions. It seems that it is nothing to do with damp etc its a known problem with the window that has been mentioned elsewhere? I am going to follow the situation as there may be a cure that involves a small modification. If I get any better infornation I will post it Thanks Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 lennyhb - 2014-02-28 9:24 AM Brian, van model and make of windows would help... I think it's a 2004/2005 Bessacarr E735 (example here http://tinyurl.com/njccxxa ) The description of the problem gives little clue as to whether the "window seal" relates to a window in the vehicle's cab or in the conversion element (though I suspect it's the latter). Hopefully Brian will be able to provide more information (in particular relating to the small modification) as this could be helpful to other forum members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enodreven Posted February 28, 2014 Author Share Posted February 28, 2014 Hi the problem is with the Polyplastic windows in the habitation area, and the rubber seal in question is the one that seals the window when you close it. Not the seal between the window and the body. It appears that there were suggestions some time ago that a similar problem could be cured by some form of drilling of the frame? and perhaps some slight modification to part of the rubber seal, but I cant find detailed information on what exactly they did but Im still looking any updates would be helpful Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Brian, am I right in thinking these are the fairly flush fitting windows with an aluminium surround to the opening, into which the glazing element recesses when closed? I.e. the acrylic window does not stand proud of the van sidewall when closed. Am I also right in thinking this water is external and not internal? If I am right on both counts I think rainwater has merely been drawn into the small gap between aly surround and rubber seal, probably by capillary attraction, and all you need to do is run an absorbant cloth around the seal with the window open to draw the water out. If this is wrong, can you post a pic of the frame to illustrate the type of window? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 If a tugger can put in his two penneth??? :-D We had a similar problem witha cvan and where the window dips into one corner the water ran round and then entered the caravan. I cured it by pushing an open cable tie between the window and the rubber with the pointy end of the cable tie exiting the caravan window to the outside of the cvan. This acted as a "drain" by separating the seal and the window so that the water that accumulated between the window and the seal (and occasionally spilled over into the cvan) no longer was an issue. Since then I have done this whenever there is a condensation build up (mainly in the winter in the first day or so) and it works a treat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enodreven Posted February 28, 2014 Author Share Posted February 28, 2014 Hi that sounds like an excellent plan and I will certainly follow your suggestion, I know it may sound daft but what sized cable ties do you use. While the above should solve one of the problems and should certainly assist in stopping any water actually laying on the seal or running into the van, I would still like to stop the build up of water under the actual seal itself. As that certainly dosent seem right. As requested I will take a few photos and upload them when we get home over the weekend. Thanks everyone for your support Brian CliveH - 2014-02-28 5:24 PM If a tugger can put in his two penneth??? :-D We had a similar problem witha cvan and where the window dips into one corner the water ran round and then entered the caravan. I cured it by pushing an open cable tie between the window and the rubber with the pointy end of the cable tie exiting the caravan window to the outside of the cvan. This acted as a "drain" by separating the seal and the window so that the water that accumulated between the window and the seal (and occasionally spilled over into the cvan) no longer was an issue. Since then I have done this whenever there is a condensation build up (mainly in the winter in the first day or so) and it works a treat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 The hole-drilling/seal-trimming modification is mentioned in this 2006/2007 Caravan Talk thread http://www.caravantalk.co.uk/community/topic/12345-swifts-and-leaky-windows/ The principle seems simple enough, but it might be possible to obtain greater detail (eg. how large a hole is needed for effective drainage) by inquiring on the Swift Talk network http://www.swift-talk.co.uk/main/authorization/signIn?target=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.swift-talk.co.uk%2F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 enodreven - 2014-02-28 6:28 PM Hi that sounds like an excellent plan and I will certainly follow your suggestion, I know it may sound daft but what sized cable ties do you use. While the above should solve one of the problems and should certainly assist in stopping any water actually laying on the seal or running into the van, I would still like to stop the build up of water under the actual seal itself. As that certainly dosent seem right. As requested I will take a few photos and upload them when we get home over the weekend. Thanks everyone for your support Brian CliveH - 2014-02-28 5:24 PM If a tugger can put in his two penneth??? :-D We had a similar problem witha cvan and where the window dips into one corner the water ran round and then entered the caravan. I cured it by pushing an open cable tie between the window and the rubber with the pointy end of the cable tie exiting the caravan window to the outside of the cvan. This acted as a "drain" by separating the seal and the window so that the water that accumulated between the window and the seal (and occasionally spilled over into the cvan) no longer was an issue. Since then I have done this whenever there is a condensation build up (mainly in the winter in the first day or so) and it works a treat. They were about 6 inches long Brian - and work well because of the chamfered end - easy to push past the seal. Only ever use them in the winter as not a problem in the warmer weather. My essentials in my tool kit are a role of Duck Tape (must be the original stuff - the look alike copies are worse than useless and a selection of good quality cable ties - you can get a large pack from Screw-Fix - all sizes - worth getting from them as again - cheaper copies simply do not hold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 CliveH Can I ask, please, if you used your cable-tie ploy on windows of the type fitted to Brian's motorhome? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enodreven Posted March 1, 2014 Author Share Posted March 1, 2014 Hi Clive I have found a few quiet thin ties which I have tried and while I cant tell if they will work as the windows are dry inside at the moment. They do however appear to be thick enough to just hold back a very short section of the seal where hopefully any residue condensation will run to the outside, as long as I have them at the lowest point, so it looks like a good plan, I will let you know how I get on. Thanks Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Derek Uzzell - 2014-03-01 7:26 AM CliveH Can I ask, please, if you used your cable-tie ploy on windows of the type fitted to Brian's motorhome? If you can push a cable tie or similar past the seal of any window of any type then this will allow the water to drain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 enodreven - 2014-03-01 10:15 AM Hi Clive I have found a few quiet thin ties which I have tried and while I cant tell if they will work as the windows are dry inside at the moment. They do however appear to be thick enough to just hold back a very short section of the seal where hopefully any residue condensation will run to the outside, as long as I have them at the lowest point, so it looks like a good plan, I will let you know how I get on. Thanks Brian Yep - that i what we did Brian - to me it seems a bit of a design fault that the windows have a sloping bottom edge - any condensation runs to the lowest point and then spills over. If the cable ties you have are thin - and the problem is a significant one - you may want to use a thicker item to give a greater exit hole. Hope it works for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enodreven Posted March 2, 2014 Author Share Posted March 2, 2014 Sorry trying to upload a photo, will have to reduce the size, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enodreven Posted March 2, 2014 Author Share Posted March 2, 2014 Hi, Again, Hopefully I will be able to upload some photos this time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Brian, is that brownish discolouration in the seal channel water, or just discolouration from the seal itself? The seals tend to have a steel armature under the rubber to hold them in shape. If that is the water, and it is discoloured as appears the case, have a look at the seal itself to see if you can see evidence of rusting. Can you see where the water is getting in? I would expect the entry point to be at the top of the window, probably on either or both the upper quadrants. Thence it would track down the channel under the seal to accumulate at the bottom. The hinge should prevent water entering at the extreme top, but those upper quadrants will get water dribbling over the external frame, that will then get behind the acrylic glazing unit and sit against the seal. It is possibly then being drawn into the seal channel by capillary attraction, especially if the seal has puckered on the curve to leave a gap or two, and then down into the channel to the bottom. We have had loads of rain over this winter so if there is a fault/weakness in the window it will have found it. Are all the windows the same, or only those on the weather side of the van? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 CliveH - 2014-03-01 1:54 PM Derek Uzzell - 2014-03-01 7:26 AM CliveH Can I ask, please, if you used your cable-tie ploy on windows of the type fitted to Brian's motorhome? If you can push a cable tie or similar past the seal of any window of any type then this will allow the water to drain. True, but I can't see how that's going to be practicable with this type of Polyplastic window. As will be evident from enodreven's top photo, the window-seal is located in a narrow deep channel with an inner and an outer lip. Whether water leaks into the channel from the outside or collects in the channel due to condensation forming on the window's inside surface, once it's in the channel that's where it will stay. The 'solution' is simple and as described in the 2007 Caravan Talk thread - drill a hole through the lower part of the outer lip at the bottom of the window and cut away the lower edge of the rubber seal at the point where the hole enters the channel. Then the water collecting in the channel should be able to drain away. This seems to be a very straightforward and uncontroversial DIY modification to make, though it might result in a stain down the side of the motorhome when discoloured water dribbles out. Me, if I owned enodreven's 2004/2005 motorhome, and the water accumulating in the channel had not been overspilling inside the motorhome during the last 9 or 10 years, I'd be asking myself whether the water beneath the seal is a genuine 'problem' that needs attention or just an irritant. (My Herald motorhome had a sliding window where rainwater could not be prevented from entering and collecting in the metal channel in which the window slid. In that case the channel had a hole in it to allow the water to drain out, so the hole-drilling ploy isn't novel.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 I can only speak from experience - and the pictures above show that the window is exactly the same sort as on our Senator Wyoming - For us the problem was never a leak INTO the caravan - it was always a condensation build up in the first few days of occupation when the weather is cold. The insertion of the cable tie provides sufficient gap that allows the excess water to run away to the outside of the caravan rather than building up and then "overflowing" into the interior - or indeed leaking into the body of the seal itself. I am sure there is a "modification" to prevent this. But would I want to faff about drilling holes and trimming the seal etc as suggested - when a far simpler option is to push the seal back with something like a cable tie ? No - I certainly wouldn't. Until I was certain what the problem was - I think I will stick with first principles and take the simply step of giving the water a chance to drain to see if this sorts the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enodreven Posted March 3, 2014 Author Share Posted March 3, 2014 Hi, Thanks to everyone for there suggestions especially Clive, I have started using the cable ties as they appear the logical and simplest thing to do, as they provide a very small temporary opening for any water to drain. I will continue to monitor the situation and await any updates from SwiftTalk before attempting any drilling or cutting of the seal as I would want to see the actual modification before getting the drill out ? If anyone has had the modification done or have a photo of the same I would really welcome a copy. Thanks Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Brian Your complaint was that you found that water was collecting beneath the rubber seal in the metal channel that locates the seal. Clive's cable-tie suggestion will drain water accumulating where the window contacts the seal. The 'hole-drilling' method will drain water from the channel. If water is entering the channel by running down the inside of the window, if you dry out the channel and use Clive's cable-tie method to provide a small 'gap' between the seal and the window, then the channel should stay dry. If the channel fails to stay dry, you can assume that it's not just condensation that's causing water to build up in the channel and, if you wanted the channel itself to drain, you'd need to drill a hole in it. Like Clive, I wouldn't choose to start drilling holes if there's a simple 'non-invasive' method of sidestepping the issue. In Clive's case water (resulting from condensation) was accumulating between the rubber seal and the window-surface and overflowing inside his caravan. In your case I'm unsure if that has been happening to any great extent, though it's plain from your 28 February 2014 6:28 PM posting that you are unhappy that the channel remains wet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enodreven Posted March 3, 2014 Author Share Posted March 3, 2014 Hi, Derek I have dried the channel and put some fine grease on the seal as it fits into the channel and have deployed Clive's Ties and will monitor the situation, As I said above I would certainly like to see either the real thing or a photo of exactly where the holes have been drilled and what part of the seal had been cut, before I get the drill out, so if anyone can help with that I would welcome there input, until then I will keep my fingers crossed that Clive's suggestion may help to keep the situation under control. I think Clive's Tip with the cable ties should be put on a thread of its own as I'm sure it would help drain the condensation that I see on a lot of van windows at this time, and he should be given a round of applause for the suggestion LoL Thanks Brian Derek Uzzell - 2014-03-03 2:09 PM Brian Your complaint was that you found that water was collecting beneath the rubber seal in the metal channel that locates the seal. Clive's cable-tie suggestion will drain water accumulating where the window contacts the seal. The 'hole-drilling' method will drain water from the channel. If water is entering the channel by running down the inside of the window, if you dry out the channel and use Clive's cable-tie method to provide a small 'gap' between the seal and the window, then the channel should stay dry. If the channel fails to stay dry, you can assume that it's not just condensation that's causing water to build up in the channel and, if you wanted the channel itself to drain, you'd need to drill a hole in it. Like Clive, I wouldn't choose to start drilling holes if there's a simple 'non-invasive' method of sidestepping the issue. In Clive's case water (resulting from condensation) was accumulating between the rubber seal and the window-surface and overflowing inside his caravan. In your case I'm unsure if that has been happening to any great extent, though it's plain from your 28 February 2014 6:28 PM posting that you are unhappy that the channel remains wet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Sorry Brian and Clive, but I'm with Derek. If what looks like water in your top pic is water - I did ask! :-) - then drilling the outer wall of the channel to provide a drain and, as in Derek's linked caravan talk item, nick the seal at the same point as the hole is drilled, the water should escape below the window seal and drain away. As Derek says, if the water is discoloured this may lead to some discolouration on the side of the van, but easily removed if not allowed to stay there. It may be a better solution to drill one hole each end, on the horizontal just beside the two bottom quadrants, since my bet is that the water is migrating down from above and it will be more effective to remove it as close as practical to its source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 I think this advert http://www.leisureshopdirect.com/caravan/ventilation/product_36553/polyvision_window_rubber.aspx shows a cross-section of the type of rubber seal that's used on Brian's Polyplastic windows. There are on-line comments about water leakage problems with these windows and the description of a 'twin finned' seal, with a 'fir tree' section that fits into a window channel, matches the cross-section profile. There are also references to the 'modification', but no specific details/photos. I suspect that Swift's advice to dealerships regarding the modification would have been on the lines of "Drill a small hole through the lower edge of the window-channel's outer lip and cut away a small section of the seal at that point to allow water to escape". I doubt if there would have been any instructions about the size of the hole or (as the window dimensions vary considerably) its exact position. As Brian Kirby says, two holes - on at each end - are likely to be more effective than one in the centre. I hesitate to say this but, while it would be a silly thing to drill holes in the windows if it can be avoided, the hole-drilling modification is so simple, how to do it so self-evident and the likelihood of it causing problems so slight, that fine detail of the methodology should be unnecessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 But why on earth would yo want to jump in and make such irreversible modifications to the MH windows - with the probable consequence of lowering value if you get it wrong - when if the problem is simply condensation - a ha'penny cable tie or similar gently pushed down between window and seal effects a better, simpler cure by allowing the condensation to drain before it bi-passes the window seal. Our problem was the condensation building up so it got into the seal. Drilling holes in the frame will obviously allow this water to drain - but the water still has to get into the frame in order to find its way out of the holes you have drilled! Surely it is a far more sensible proposition to prevent the condensation bi-passing the seal in the first place! The Ha'penny cable-tie achieves this - with no modifications at all. If the water is getting in via a compromised seal or water ingress problem elsewhere then, no - a cable tie would not cure the problem - but then neither would any number of drain holes - you would need to find the primary cause of the water ingress and cure that. IMO - the best advice is "Do no harm". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.