peacock312 Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 I went to NEC show lat week,I was offered a free motorhome valuation service,at home I filled in all details on line of van,ie.59reg Adria Coral 670 sl supreme,3ltr.only interested in current value of van,not selling. I was contacted by phone by charming chap,I explained it was supreme model,unmarked,27k Miles + about 5 k worth of accessories.one owner,FSH. He advised current forecourt value, £35,900. Buy in price £25.000, I expressed surprise at the margin,he said most dealers make low profit on new vans,and need a 9/10 k margin on used vans to cover,vale ting,servicing,warranty etc!. He also said accessories,made no difference to value but was just a bonus to new buyer. I owned a retail business before retiring,selling fairly high value new and used product,must have been wrong business as I never dreamed of these level of profit margins!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 I'm surprised at his honesty, but not the figures, it's not that different for cars of a similar price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Charming? Why bother with these BS merchants.....stick it on ebay and sell to a genuine buyer *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberrat Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 JudgeMental - 2014-02-28 12:15 PM Charming? Why bother with these BS merchants.....stick it on ebay and sell to a genuine buyer *-) Perfectly put. I sell every motorhome privately, and buy privately. I know it's a hassle, but usually end up around £8k up on the deal over dealer 'convenience'.,. £8k buys me a lot of convenience and a warranty (in my bank account) that I get to keep to spend o holidays if nothing expensive goes wrong.(it rarely does) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candapack Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 I was offered £21k at a show recently, against a new £52k van. Forecourt price for mine would have been c. £25 -£26k. So not a massive markup. BUT - mine had just had a full hab service, and full vehicle service. Picked up a couple of minor issues, both repaired. All paperwork in order. Plus various extras fitted - solar panel, bike rack etc. Plus I had cam belt changed 3 months ago. Plus it was taxed until Dec 2014. Plus it is cleaner inside and out than it was when I picked it up (from a dealer). So to move it on, basically no work required. The only extra from a selling dealer would be a warranty, and how much is that? And as for the poor dealer not making much profit on new vans, well I would have some doubts. With new cars, the dealer take can be 15%, plus target led bonuses. Don't know how it works with vans, but I imagine they do OK. Next van, hopefully, will be bought privately! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 You don't say what discount you are getting on the 52k van, unless you are getting a good discount the high trade in price is meaningless. UK dealers generally work on far higher margins than continental dealers that can only be considered as rip off prices, when you look at continental prices not only are the new prices much lower with good discounts to be had also the the trade in prices tend to be higher & S/H vans fetch good prices a win win situation for the customer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 I always think that something is only really worth, what somebody will give you for it... There seems little point in thinking "..but my van is worth XYZ..!", if that then means that it only ends up sitting on the drive' for months, without a buyer... We've recently sold ours, direct to a dealer(the one we bought it from originally).We had intended to go the ebay/private sale route but we just rolled up, on our way past from a weekend away and with no prep' to the van....and after some toing and froing, we agreed on a price(..went back following weekend and walked a way with a cheque). Could we have got more privately?..possibly a bit yes.. but that's IF we had got a buyer(and it's a big IF)....and even then, not until we'd spent out on a hab' service, a fresh MOT/base vehicle service..and possible even a set of tyres(due to age) etc...and put up with time wasting, tyre kickers..... It's all well and good looking at how much a dealer may or may not put it on the for...but you're not going to sell privately at their prices..and a van could be sitting on their forecourt for months.... :-S Having said that, just looking at the figures in the OP's post again...we got paid pretty close to that amount for an '07 Chausson...so it seems low for an '09 Adria... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Well take 20% vat off that £10k margin for a start. Then what the buyer will want knocking off the windscreen price. Then walk around a dealers and think how much it is costing to keep all those vehicles standing idle for months on end whilst they have to be kept clean and repaired from viewers pulling them about, test drives, whatever. Rent, rates, heat, light, 24hr security or CATS go missing, etc etc. Then think how much some of the warranty claims on damp vans cost to put right. You can soon knock a big hole in that £10k. If motorhome retailing was that profitable I guess Brownhills wouldn't have gone from 6 sites down to 1 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnsCrossMotorHomes Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Whatever the GROSS profit margin is, VAT man takes 20% straight away, does not matter what the seller pays out in rectifications or repair costs, this applies to all used goods, Tv,s, cookers, cars etc It can happen that an item has say £3000 gross profit and it cost £2500 to repair leaving £500, VAT man still wants his £600 leaving a loss of £100 As to having £10,000 gross in a used van.................... I wish Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hymer1942 Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Brown hills demise was a self inflicted wound, they had no idea about customer service, Barrrie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 JohnsCrossMotorHomes - 2014-02-28 3:20 PM Whatever the GROSS profit margin is, VAT man takes 20% straight away, does not matter what the seller pays out in rectifications or repair costs, this applies to all used goods, Tv,s, cookers, cars etc It can happen that an item has say £3000 gross profit and it cost £2500 to repair leaving £500, VAT man still wants his £600 leaving a loss of £100 You might well charge VAT on the paper difference between cost and sale prices under the 'margin' scheme but as VAT is included in the invoice price it's actual proportion is around 16.66% of the gross margin? Plus all servicing, valeting, warranty and repair costs incurred would not only be fully VAT recoverable but all parts and labour would be set against profit for corporation tax thus reducing that bill too? So whilst I appreciate that trading might be tough it ain't all bad news!! Or have I misunderstood as it is many years since I was a VAT regd trader and things change over time? https://www.dragon2000.co.uk/motor-trade-blogs/used-car-margin-vat-scheme/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 candapack - 2014-02-28 12:47 PM Plus it was taxed until Dec 2014. That actually doesn't make any difference as the dealer cannot get a refund on the unused amount so you would need to just take it off and send it in for a refund. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Mel B - 2014-02-28 7:07 PM candapack - 2014-02-28 12:47 PM Plus it was taxed until Dec 2014. That actually doesn't make any difference as the dealer cannot get a refund on the unused amount so you would need to just take it off and send it in for a refund. And any decent dealer would have advised you of that - and if they ever 'forgot' I would certainly remind them!! It does of course benefit the next owner to whom you owe no gifts of gratitude for buying your ex van at a profit to the dealer and a loss to you! I would get back to them and ask for the tax disc - at worst they can only say no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candapack Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Mel B - 2014-02-28 7:07 PM candapack - 2014-02-28 12:47 PM Plus it was taxed until Dec 2014. That actually doesn't make any difference as the dealer cannot get a refund on the unused amount so you would need to just take it off and send it in for a refund. Well spotted Mel. I just put that in to make sure folks were paying attention. But, if it goes onto a dealer's forecourt in February, it does make a vehicle that wee bit more attractive. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 We often check over second hand motorhomes for a local small business that buys and sells them, our service and an MOT generally costs around £200 on a five year old motorhome. Add to that a cambelt change £300-£400 depending on base vehicle and quite often a set of tyres due to age (£130-£150 a piece) plus advertising costs, storage costs nutil it selsl, warranty allowances and hopefully a bit of profit at the end of it and it doesn't look quite so extravagant. Throw in a bit of damp and that £ 10Ksuddenly doesn't look so great. One of our local traders motorhomes has cost them over £4K in repairs so far and they've been sitting with it on their books for four months now! D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 I can't see what the dealer profit margin has to do with it. Yes, they have to make a profit and there are considerable costs in running a dealership with money tied up in stock etc. To work out the profit margin, you have to look at the full cost base of the dealer including its activities, holding costs and standing charges. What would happen if nobody made a profit? We wouldn't be able to motorhome that's for sure. But it comes down to the cost of changing our van. If I don't like the deal, I can walk away and look elsewhere. If I like the deal, then great for all concerned. I just don't get bothered about people making a profit out of me. So I can save some money sometimes. All I'll do is spend the saving on something else and worry whether I'm paying over the odds for that. I buy what I want at a price I'm willing to pay. If I can't get it at the price, I do without. I think David's charming man was spinning yarn with the wrong fibres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Brock - 2014-02-28 11:24 PM What would happen if nobody made a profit? We wouldn't be able to motorhome that's for sure. But it comes down to the cost of changing our van. If I don't like the deal, I can walk away and look elsewhere. If I like the deal, then great for all concerned. I just don't get bothered about people making a profit out of me so I can save some money sometimes. All I'll do is spend the saving on something else and worry whether I'm paying over the odds for that. I buy what I want at a price I'm willing to pay. If I can't get it at the price, I do without. Exactly! Simples! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 hymer1942 - 2014-02-28 4:07 PM Brown hills demise was a self inflicted wound, they had no idea about customer service, Barrrie Indeed.....absolute clowns.. :-D So pray tell, the poor old seller is expected to absorb all the dealers costs at source, and this the justification for derisory offers? what a nonsense........it's never cost us much at all to change vans, especially if we sell privately here and purchase in Europe, and consequently we only experience minimum depreciation. Thankfully never come up against the slick practices that seem an integral part of the UK motorhome market as nobody's fool...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peacock312 Posted March 1, 2014 Author Share Posted March 1, 2014 Dave,look at my post again,the van is four years four months old,full service history,immaculate inside and out,no scratches,bumps or spray touch ups,top end model supreme,3ltr.etc.etc.in fact in forecourt ready condition,not like some older vans you mention.tyres good,no cambelt on 160,no damp! I said at the start this was a valuation exercise only,but it sure puts me off ever using this method of selling. I still think,after explaining every detail to valuer that quoting 10,900 below forecourt price is a bit greedy but typical of this industry,the car trade does not expect such high margins,probably because in my opinion,generally,they are much more professional Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 peacock312 - 2014-03-01 10:51 AM Dave,look at my post again,the van is four years four months old,full service history,immaculate inside and out,no scratches,bumps or spray touch ups,top end model supreme,3ltr.etc.etc.in fact in forecourt ready condition,not like some older vans you mention.tyres good,no cambelt on 160,no damp! I said at the start this was a valuation exercise only,but it sure puts me off ever using this method of selling. I still think,after explaining every detail to valuer that quoting 10,900 below forecourt price is a bit greedy but typical of this industry,the car trade does not expect such high margins,probably because in my opinion,generally,they are much more professional My comments were meant as a general overview not specifically about your motorhome. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peacock312 Posted March 1, 2014 Author Share Posted March 1, 2014 Thanks for comment,point taken, Another story,recently we decided to exchange our Renault Clio hatch for an estate because I struggle to lift my wife's mobility scooter in and out. The facts are Clio hatch,1.2 tom tom CDi new March 2011 11000 miles immaculate, we located locally in a established dealership a Clio estate 1.6 automatic tom tom CDi May 2011 20000 miles 2new tyres free MOT,not needed! FSH and amasingly the same colour, cost to swap with two months or 2000mls.warranty. £1000.00 in absolute pristine,fully valeted condition, makes you think! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 peacock312 - 2014-03-01 11:30 AM Thanks for comment,point taken, Another story,recently we decided to exchange our Renault Clio hatch for an estate because I struggle to lift my wife's mobility scooter in and out. The facts are Clio hatch,1.2 tom tom CDi new March 2011 11000 miles immaculate, we located locally in a established dealership a Clio estate 1.6 automatic tom tom CDi May 2011 20000 miles 2new tyres free MOT,not needed! FSH and amasingly the same colour, cost to swap with two months or 2000mls.warranty. £1000.00 in absolute pristine,fully valeted condition, makes you think! But think how much more there is to go wrong with a motorhome than there is with a car...... and how many more variables there are with layout etc of motorhomes than there is with a popular hatchback car, so how much longer you are likely to have it in stock waiting for someone who wants that particular type....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 JudgeMental - 2014-03-01 9:02 AM .....it's never cost us much at all to change vans, especially if we sell privately ............ That my answer too. Do all the work yourself and take all the risk yourself, then you won't have to pay anyone else to do it :-D Look what Estate Agents charge - and all they do is find a buyer. Easier said than done, but if you can do it yourself you save a packet Be prepared for a lot of hassle though. I sold my last car privately - a Rover Maestro 18 years old I had from new and it was immaculate. I advertised it on the Rover Maestro forum - the wonders of the internet whatever your interest you can find someone who shares it. One guy on there had FIVE Rover Maestros and his wife was threatening to leave him if he bought another :-D The first person to actually see mine paid the full asking price and drove it away within an hour. But I lost count of the number of timewasters I had before anyone came to look at it. Several arranged to view it, two said they would buy it, then just didn't turn up. What can you do? If you berate them on the forum people will just assume (wrongly) that there is something wrong with what you are selling ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wills Wagon Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 All dealers use Glass's Guide to arrive at their values for motorhomes and then make adjustments for wear and tear, type of vehicle and what its market is and then give you a figure to negotiate from. We had quote from different dealers that varied by £8k but managed to get a decent deal on a £50K van that we are happy with. Dealers are in business to make a profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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