nowtelse2do Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 First Bob Crow dies then Tony Benn. Typical Socialists - One out all out 8-) Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 nowtelse2do - 2014-03-14 9:37 PM First Bob Crow dies then Tony Benn. Typical Socialists - One out all out 8-) Dave No disrespect intended to the deceased and their families - but 'one out all out'? That's most unfair Dave, besides, we should be so lucky!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 "Lucky , Lucky , Lucky................" :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Tony Benn was a Good Bloke, who got a very poor deal from the press. Even today a commentator in the Torygraph was calling him a 'Champagne Socialist' - He was Teetotal! And of course giving him a label like 'Socialist' is the first step in trying to associate him with other so called 'Socialists' like Stalin. Compare his guts to todays politicians, Cameron, Osborne, Milliband, and weep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Unlike the rest of his champagne socialist party he was a man that 100% stood up and fought for what he believed in and never wavered from that or chose bits that suited him My own political loyalties are a million miles away from his but I fear we have lost the last true politician and now only have very weak , gutless crooks in some cases who you cannot trust at all ( other than Nick Griffin of course who myself and others on here allegedly admire so ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 I remember Benn as Postmaster General all swivelly eyed and apoplectic about the audacity of Radio Caroline and Radio London et al actually daring to play pop music to the audience of the 1960's. He cost Labour the election because everyone under the age of 30 that wanted to listen to the original songs not horrendous BBC copy versions by some non-descript orchestra on "Workers Playtime"! - and so when the election came they voted for the Conservatives that promised the relaxation of the airwaves that allowed the likes of Capital Radio etc. Harold Wilson described Benn as politician whose immaturity grew with age. Summed it up for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 One of my favourite Tony Benn quotes; 'Ask the powerful five questions: What power have you got? Where did you get it from? In whose interests do you exercise it? To whom are you accountable?... How can we get rid of you? Only democracy gives us that right. That is why no-one with power likes democracy and that is why every generation must struggle to win it and keep it; including you and me, here and now.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symbol Owner Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 I thought that you might enjoy this Peter -- Benn at his humourous best on republicanism and the Royal Family -- I don't expect you to agree with him -- but he makes a good point or two - as usual! http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/people/tony_benn#p018hhjt Cheers, colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 What some others said about Benn:- "Tomfool issues, barmy ideas, a kind of ageing, perennial youth which immatures with age" - Harold Wilson. (probably my favourite tho my thoughts on Wilson are best left unsaid!) "The Bertie Wooster of Marxism" - Writer Malcolm Bradbury. (Love it!!!) "He has these extraordinary theories into which he can fit all the facts, and this gives him a great flow, like a huge river which is unmistakably coming from somewhere and going somewhere, but the longer you listen, the more you realise he is trying to push water uphill" - Former Tory Deputy Prime Minister Michael Heseltine. (Probably the most accurate and intuitive description of Benn) "He threw himself into the 1960s technology with the enthusiasm (not to say the language) of a newly-enrolled Boy Scout demonstrating knot-tying to indulgent parents" - Writer Bernard Levin on Benn becoming Minister of Technology. (Again - accurate and intuitive) "Less of a wide-eyed Trot than a very English phenomenon" - Playwright John Mortimer. (Maybe - but the term "swivel eyed loon" was surely first coined by someone describing Benn!) "He had more conversions on the road to Damascus than a Syrian long-distance lorry driver" - Scottish politician Jimmy Reid. (That is just sooooooooo good!) B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symbol Owner Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 nowtelse2do - 2014-03-14 9:37 PM Bob Crow dies Typical Socialist - One out all out Dave Yes Dave, but as a former working man, wouldn't you have wanted a man with this sort of conviction on YOUR side? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26529922 Cheers, Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Trouble is Colin - if you were a worker trying to GET to work at a job that had less benefits than those Crow represented and you were prevented from earning your crust by their selfish strike action then however sincere the conviction of the likes of Crow et al - the net result was lost income. Something most people found to be a genuine PITA. :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symbol Owner Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 CliveH - 2014-03-15 5:02 PM The term "swivel eyed loon" was surely first coined by someone describing Benn! Oh no it wasn't, Clive! see here:- http://virtuallinguist.typepad.com/the_virtual_linguist/2013/05/swivel-eyed-loons.html You and I, Clive, could swap quotes for ever I reckon,which probably just goes to show how much conviction politicians like him ( and, I would allow, my 'bete noire', Mrs Thatcher) divide opinion, but some of these, from across the board, are probably more apposite:- " He was a great democrat - even if his policies were eccentric. He once told me the key question to ask anyone in power: Who elected you - and how can I vote to remove you from office?" - Boris Johnson (!) An honest,good-hearted politician and as such, characterised by right-wing ideological mouthpieces (such as the ones that you quote, Clive!) as being a bit mad" - Simon Pegg. "He was a man of deep socialist principle, obvious humanity and deep personal warmth. A brilliant parliamentarian, he penned amongst the most memorable political diaries. He will be sorely missed" - John Bercow, speaker of the House of Commons. And finally, the one that I particularly find a rapport with: "Tony Benn was the articulate advocate of socialism who inspired my generation and gave us all hope of a fair and equal society" John Mc.Donnell, M.P. When the American Trade Union organiser Joe Hill was about to meet his death ( by execution) his message to a fellow activist was: "Don't waste any time in mourning - Organise!". Surely both Bob Crow and Tony Benn would have endorsed those sentiments - both were demonised in life - and are being patronised in death - for the same reason - to dismiss any challenge to the status quo! Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symbol Owner Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 CliveH - 2014-03-15 5:33 PM PITA. :-S What on earth does that acronym mean, Clive? Another of your dreadful crudities I presume (?) C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Pain in the ar$e. Quite dreadful I am sure - how do I manage to know all these things when you so obviously do not? (lol) Is it something to do with living in the real world rather than a bubble? Sorry Colin - but you come across as someone who is rather out of their depth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symbol Owner Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Don't be stupid Clive -- and don't play the pub' bore on a public forum. your use of crude and unneccessary language and personal insult does you no credit at all. A good intellectual dispute/discussion is one thing, your perpetual boorishness quite another. 'Tis a pity that it has come to this -- again -- and maybe why people like (Lord) Martyn Thornber writes, as he recently did, of his reasons for deserting this forum for a while! Shame! Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 A) what "crudities" have I ever used? B) When I post some quotes - you come back with some of your own - tit for tat - and yes we could probably trade quotes - but that is why I see you as being out of your depth with a sensible discussion. Apologies if i have touched a nerve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symbol Owner Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 CliveH - 2014-03-15 5:33 PM Trouble is Colin - if you were a worker trying to GET to work at a job that had less benefits than those Crow represented and you were prevented from earning your crust by their selfish strike action then however sincere the conviction of the likes of Crow et al - the net result was lost income. But that was just Bob's point -- unless someone with his persistence takes on the 'Boss Class' for you, working people will be 'ridden roughshod' over. The answer is to organise, yourselves, surely. >:-) C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Absolutely - but organising yourself such that other workers suffer is hardly sensible in my book. To my mind the Left rarely organises anything other than a small core group of envious individuals. Also - your quote/link re Cameron and Swivel Eyed Loons actually confirmed that it was a phrase first coined in the 1970's aimed at the loony left. Of which Benn was certainly one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symbol Owner Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 CliveH - 2014-03-15 6:35 PM A) what "crudities" have I ever used? Many times -- I won't be lured into using them myself - but you regularly have to substitute symbols for letters to 'clean up' your filthy language -- as you have just done! B) When I post some quotes - you come back with some of your own - tit for tat - and yes we could probably trade quotes - but that is why I see you as being out of your depth with a sensible discussion Look, Clive,You and I have totally differing views -that's fine - we both back these opinions by choosing quotes to back them up -- you and I can agree or disagree ( we've done both in the past) but I would contend that your allegation is both untrue and unfair -- others can decide, but I don't just 'quote' I reckon to'add value' with the highly 'sensible' products of my brilliant brain! :-D Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symbol Owner Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 CliveH - 2014-03-15 6:46 PM Also - your quote/link re Cameron and Swivel Eyed Loons actually confirmed that it was a phrase first coined in the 1970's aimed at the loony left. I think not, Clive -- 'loony left' -- yes -- but 'swivel-eyed' came later, (and was applied to 'right-wingers') I think. Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Oh! come on Colin - PITA is regular Forum fair. methinks you are scraping the barrel and do what the Left regularly does when dealing with someone of differing views - attack the person rather than debate the point. I am happy to debate the point that Benn was a maverick that held totalitarian views (as so many on the left do because the believe they are right and do what they do "for the greater good") and having lived through his amazing stupidity of taking on the Pirate Radio Stations such that Labour lost the election - and I apologise if my views on your actions by way of accusing me of that which I have not done touched that nerve............ But having dealt with those on the Left of politics all my life - I have formed the opinion that when they bump up against those with opposing views - the Left tend to attack the individual - the typical Ad Hom attack. It is puerile and IMO - indicates that they are "out of their depth" in an adult debate. Edit As for the "swivel eyed loon" quote - the very first reference I can find (so far) in print is in "Punch" magazine and it was an article describing Michael Meacher who was described as a “swivel-eyed Leftie lunatic”. So the term had been in circulation for a while. In 1987, Seamus Milne, writing in tehgraun, wrote that it was common to portray Robespierre as “the swivel-eyed high priest of political violence”. And in 1991, in a couple of columns, Simon Hoggart used the term, on one occasion to pick out politicians who had a “swivel-eyed belief in privatisation”. But the Benn reference does go back further - The American Spectator in 1993 has “Tony Benn (republican, leveler, formerly Lord Stansgate) gave a "swivel-eyed speech.” So just as swivel-eyed in the 1990s was transferred from Redwood to, e.g., Gorman, it makes perfect sense that an epithet for Benn got carried over to Meacher. I always felt that the truly BRILLIANT Tony Benn’s ‘Spitting Image’ puppet was given eyes that swivelled independently of each other, which I always assumed was a reference to this epithet. (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symbol Owner Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 CliveH - 2014-03-15 7:09 PM "Oh! come on Colin - PITA is regular Forum fare." (is it really Clive? - not for me it isn't!) "methinks you are scraping the barrel and do what the Left regularly does when dealing with someone of differing views - attack the person rather than debate the point." I wasn't attacking you - I just happened to believe that your use of bad language was inappropriate -- just my humble opinion after all! " and having lived through his amazing stupidity of taking on the Pirate Radio Stations such that Labour lost the election." I really don't believe that to be true -- In 1966 Benn was Minister for Posts and telecommunications, and as such, had to present the Government case that 'pirate' radio stations interfered with marine communications -- however, by the time that the Marine Broadcasting Offences Bill came before Parliament in 1966, Benn had moved on ( to Technology) and did not present it to the House. The election ( which Labour lost) did not happen until 1970 so I fail to see how Benn could have been totally responsible for it, as you seem to be saying! I don't really know anything about 'popular' music Clive -- but didn't the masses get Radio 1 out of it -- and already had something called 'Radio Luxembourg' -- I think? "I am happy to debate the point that Benn was a maverick" (agreed, Clive -- politics needs its 'mavericks'-- keeps it interesting!) "But having dealt with those on the Left of politics all my life - I have formed the opinion that when they bump up against those with opposing views - the Left tend to attack the individual - the typical Ad Hom attack" -- maybe some do Clive, but not usually me - unless provoked! "It is puerile" It is -- that's why I don't do it! "As for the "swivel eyed loon" quote - the very first reference I can find (so far) in print is in "Punch" magazine and it was an article describing Michael Meacher who was described as a “swivel-eyed Leftie lunatic”. So the term had been in circulation for a while. In 1987, Seamus Milne, writing in tehgraun,(?)wrote that it was common to portray Robespierre as “the swivel-eyed high priest of political violence”. And in 1991, in a couple of columns, Simon Hoggart used the term, on one occasion to pick out politicians who had a “swivel-eyed belief in privatisation”. But the Benn reference does go back further - The American Spectator in 1993 has “Tony Benn (republican, leveler, formerly Lord Stansgate) gave a "swivel-eyed speech.” So just as swivel-eyed in the 1990s was transferred from Redwood to, e.g., Gorman, it makes perfect sense that an epithet for Benn got carried over to Meacher. I always felt that the truly BRILLIANT Tony Benn’s ‘Spitting Image’ puppet was given eyes that swivelled independently of each other, which I always assumed was a reference to this epithet." I defer to your superior knowledge ( in this case only!) Clive! (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 "Tehgraun" Apologies - a slang term "Graun" - Grauniad - The Guardian - and my usual appalling lack of attention to spelling detail - Teh - "The" http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=grauniad As for everything else you post - Thank you - totally agree and happy to agree to differ :-D Kind regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symbol Owner Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Thanks, likewise, enjoy your evening Clive -- hope you are enjoying your Rioja -- mine's St. Emilion tonight -- delicious! Cheers! Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmwbrooks Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Peter James - 2014-03-15 8:50 AM Compare his guts to todays politicians, Cameron, Osborne, Milliband, and weep. Good post. He said what he meant, , and meant what he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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