Tracker Posted May 19, 2014 Author Share Posted May 19, 2014 I would have thought that any lpg tank would be far safer from any risk of collision damage situated well away from the edges of the van and far better protected under the centre of the vehicle? That surely would apply even more to a coachbuilt that has far flimsier aluminium / thin grp / polycarbonate side panels than a monocoque all welded steel panel van construction and very likely built to a more rigorous constrction and use standard than any coachbuilt? It could also be argued that a flexible high pressure pigtail has far more give in it than any fixed metal tube and would be far better at absorbing impact shocks without rupturing than metal? With the gas turned off internally for travel I am using the van exactly as the manufacturer and converter decreed and therefore have nothing to fear either from the alarmists on here or my insurance company and I have no intention of changing - unless I can get a remote controlled isolating valve to insert on the high pressure side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Tracker - 2014-05-19 1:46 PM ...With the gas turned off internally for travel I am using the van exactly as the manufacturer and converter decreed and therefore have nothing to fear either from the alarmists on here or my insurance company and I have no intention of changing ... So....is it safe to assume then, that you wouldn't really be in favour of Stihl sawing an "access-flap" in your floor, either..? (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted May 19, 2014 Author Share Posted May 19, 2014 pepe63 - 2014-05-19 2:42 PM So....is it safe to assume then, that you wouldn't really be in favour of Stihl sawing an "access-flap" in your floor, either..? (lol) Now that's a good idea as long as yer arms are long enough to reach down the side of the tank to turn it orf!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted May 23, 2014 Author Share Posted May 23, 2014 Below is the response from Eurotunnel, confirming that, as suspected, ALL gas containers must be turned off at the container. I have asked them for clarification whether they are happy to crawl underneath to check and I await their reply. Quote. We can confirm that the actual gas containers will need to be switched off at the container, whether these are mobile containers or a fixed tank. Please see the link to our website for your reference http://www.eurotunnel.com/uk/site-information/lpg/, information on travelling with a Campervan is at the bottom of the page. Kind regards Sales Support Team Eurotunnel Le Shuttle E-Mail sales.support@Eurotunnel.com < mailto:sales.support@Eurotunnel.com> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 Your link doesn't work (the problem is the comma you've added to its end). This link is probably better and includes references to LPG-carrying conditions http://www.eurotunnel.com/uk/traveller-info/vehicles/caravans-campers-vans-and-trailers/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted May 23, 2014 Author Share Posted May 23, 2014 Sorry! http://www.eurotunnel.com/uk/site-information/lpg/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 Still think Pepe's plan the best idea...steel pipe and tap on sill, take half a day at most and about £20. add an LPG on/off sticker as well for effect :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted May 23, 2014 Author Share Posted May 23, 2014 JudgeMental - 2014-05-23 4:25 PM Still think Pepe's plan the best idea...steel pipe and tap on sill, take half a day at most and about £20. add an LPG on/off sticker as well for effect :-D That will not work to Eurotunnel's theoretical satisfaction because it does not turn the container off at source. One might get away with it if the checkers are lax but would you want to rely on that alone for passage sous la manche at the start and end of your holiday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 best buy one of these then for the misses :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted May 23, 2014 Author Share Posted May 23, 2014 Yeah right - I'll let you suggest that to her - if you are brave enough!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek pringle Posted May 24, 2014 Share Posted May 24, 2014 hi Tracker, Would you not be able to turn the gas 'off' at the tank before leaving home thereby keeping yourself clean and dry at the Tunnel. It surely then is up to the Tunnel operatives whether or not they wish to climb under to check. They could just try an appliance in the van I suppose. We use the Tunnel at least twice per year and have ALWAYS been asked about the gas, only once has this not been followed up by the guard physically checking the valve themselves. cheers and good luck derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted May 24, 2014 Author Share Posted May 24, 2014 Sorry Derek, whilst I appreciate the thought, the tank needs turning off each side of the tunnel on both outward and inward journeys so at some points I would have to get on my back a total of four times - apart from which we likes a brew up en route - which is part of the point of a motorhome innit!!! Right now I would willingly go back to a good old fashioned, reliable, simple, expensive Calor gas fuelled van. Anyone wanna swap or p/x a nice Talisman or similar for an otherwise very nice Warwick Duo!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolyk Posted May 24, 2014 Share Posted May 24, 2014 The underslung tank has (or should have) an excess flow cutoff valve built into the tank. So if there was a catastrophic failure in the high pressure line, such as a burst hose, the valve will operate, preventing the escape of gas. Of course there is always the possibility that the valve will fail, although that is an unlikely scenario. But having used the tunnel several times in our Warwick Duo I must say that getting underneath at both ends of the tunnel is a real nuisance and I keep a small tarpaulin to lay on just for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted May 24, 2014 Author Share Posted May 24, 2014 rolyk - 2014-05-24 10:27 AM But having used the tunnel several times in our Warwick Duo I must say that getting underneath at both ends of the tunnel is a real nuisance and I keep a small tarpaulin to lay on just for that. It's a mild 'nuisance' when it's dry but it's a lot more than a 'nuisance' when it's wet and the ground and the van chassis are wet and mucky! Does anyone from Eurotunnel ever actually get down and dirty underneath to check that the valve is off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 24, 2014 Share Posted May 24, 2014 Although it does not address the EuroTunnel requirement, the following 2011 MHF thread does discuss options for remotely turning off an LPG tank's gas-supply. http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopic-116562-days0-orderasc-0.html Other than having the tank's manual shut-off valve exposed and rigging up some visually obvious means of manually operating that valve (but avoiding the need to crawl beneath the motorhome) I don't see how it would be possible to prove to a EuroTunnel inspector that the tank had genuinely be turned off. There's a conflict between the design of these tanks, the EuroTunnel demand and the wish to comply with that demand easily. As far as I can see, it's impracticable to resolve that conflict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted May 24, 2014 Author Share Posted May 24, 2014 Derek Uzzell - 2014-05-24 12:18 PM There's a conflict between the design of these tanks, the EuroTunnel demand and the wish to comply with that demand easily. As far as I can see, it's impracticable to resolve that conflict Agreed!! Which is exactly what I thought when I started this thread more in hope than expectation of a practical solution! But I thought it worth asking!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 24, 2014 Share Posted May 24, 2014 In fact, having had another GOOGLE-around, I see that the Eurotunnel LPG requirement and meeting it with an Auto-Sleepers Warwick with LPG-tank was mentioned on the ASOF about a year ago. http://www.autosleeper-ownersforum.com/t6655-lpg-tank Another ASOF thread http://www.autosleeper-ownersforum.com/t133-auto-sleeper-warwick-duo-modifications?highlight=hose shows the LPG-tank installation (I've attached the relevant photo below) and it should be apparent why turning off the gas-supply at the tank's outlet minimises the risk of a gas leak and why Eurotunnel might insist on this being done rather than merely turn off the gas further down the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spospe Posted May 24, 2014 Share Posted May 24, 2014 I have an Auto-Sleeper Warwick Duo with an underslung tank and I have recently asked Auto-Sleeper for their understanding of what should be done regarding turning off the gas, both whilst travelling and when using Eurotunnel. The answer to both questions was to turn the gas off at the taps in the kitchen unit. In addition Auto-Sleeper said that they had been told by Eurotunnel, that they would, if it "need be", turn the gas off for you! i.e. that Eurotunnel staff would wriggle under the van to do the job (if "need be") On what basis "need be" would be invoked was not made clear, but I am comforted by the thought that Eurotunnel staff will do the business for me if "need be" and so I will not have to lie on my back in the cold, wet and dark to turn off the gas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted May 24, 2014 Author Share Posted May 24, 2014 spospe - 2014-05-24 2:32 PM The answer to both questions was to turn the gas off at the taps in the kitchen unit. In addition Auto-Sleeper said that they had been told by Eurotunnel, that they would, if it "need be", turn the gas off for you! i.e. that Eurotunnel staff would wriggle under the van to do the job (if "need be") On what basis "need be" would be invoked was not made clear, but I am comforted by the thought that Eurotunnel staff will do the business for me if "need be" and so I will not have to lie on my back in the cold, wet and dark to turn off the gas. I have three times asked Eurotunnel by email for definitive answers to these questions but their replies are vague, ignore the questions, avoid the issues, only answer questions I didn't ask and continually refer me back to their website. I don't think they have a policy of assisting other than checking - except that ALL gas 'containers' MUST be turned off at the container and if that is done there is little point in turning off anything internally. If I ever get a definitive answer that enables me to travel via the tunnel without having to get on my back 4 times I will print it out for my own reference and post it on here - but don't hold your breath waiting! If anybody can get any more assistance out of Eurotunnel do please let us all know! Quite how you would explain to the French staff on the return trip that they need to get on their back, crawl under the van, locate the big red lpg tank, remove the handwheel retaining the aluminium cover and turn the gas valve off remains to be seen - and you can bet your pocket money that even if you overcome that hurdle nobody will want to turn it on again once you disembark the shuttle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted May 24, 2014 Share Posted May 24, 2014 spospe - 2014-05-24 2:32 PM...................... In addition Auto-Sleeper said that they had been told by Eurotunnel, that they would, if it "need be", turn the gas off for you! i.e. that Eurotunnel staff would wriggle under the van to do the job (if "need be") ............. Did you ask Auto-Sleepers if they got that advice from Eurotunnel in writing? If not, I suspect it is as valuable as the paper this post is written on! :-) If they did, why not ask them if they can give you a copy, so that you have something to rely on if push comes to shove? I can otherwise imagine a reply from the operative at whatever end of the tunnel along the lines of "we are following company instructions: who, exactly, are Auto-Sleepers? Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spospe Posted May 24, 2014 Share Posted May 24, 2014 Brian Kirby - 2014-05-24 4:33 PM Did you ask Auto-Sleepers if they got that advice from Eurotunnel in writing? No, I did not. The reply from AS to myself was in the form of an email which contained the information without quoting a specific name, or saying how it had been received. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted May 24, 2014 Author Share Posted May 24, 2014 I had similar responses both from Autogas and from Autosleepers, which is fine but it is not the opinion prociver who will suffer the inconvenience if you get refused. Without wishing to have a go at anyone for trying to help what they, or anybody else on here, says is totally irrelevant. It is only what Eurotunnel say in writing and what Eurotunnel tell their staff to enforce that matters and as it stands I'm not taking the chance of a refusal, or a long drawn out discussion, or grovelling on my back at either end of the tunnel just to save an hour and that is an end to it as far as I am concerned unless the rules change and I can't see that happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted May 28, 2014 Author Share Posted May 28, 2014 Another repeated reply of the same old from Eurotunnel. I can only assume that the question of - are your staff able and willing to go underneath the van to ensure the gas is turned off at the container - was too technical for them? I will not bother again and we will carry on using the ferries. Thank you for your email. We can confirm the gas tank will need to be switched off at the tank itself and not just at the appliances. "Campervans and other recreational vehicles which have LPG containers (as opposed to gas bottles) to power domestic services e.g. heating and refrigeration are accepted on the condition that the tanks are no more than 80% full and will be subject to inspection. Please also ensure the gas tank itself is switched off for safe travel. More information can be found at http://www.eurotunnel.com/uk/site-information/lpg/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archiesgrandad Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 I suppose I'm lucky that none of the vans that we have owned have had any feature quite as bad as that described, but I did have a sail boat that had the cooling water intake on the back of the saildrive unit, and the only way to turn it on or off was to effectively stand on your head in the cockpit locker and poke your hand through a hole in the side panel. It, took less than an afternoon to devise an extension to the handle so that it could be turned on or off from a more convenient position. I don't know how the underside of your van is laid out, but I am pretty sure that it should be possible to bring the control knob to the side of the vehicle. It does make me wonder why we still turn out year after year to pay tens of thousands of pounds for these shoddily built conversions on what is the cheapest and nastiest of all the van chassis, and they don't really improve. AGD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted May 28, 2014 Author Share Posted May 28, 2014 Archiesgrandad - 2014-05-28 4:55 PM I am pretty sure that it should be possible to bring the control knob to the side of the vehicle. If you can devise a way to remove and replace the handwheel securing bolt several turns to remove and replace the weatherproof cover followed by the same exercise for the gas cylinder itself than I am listening. Yes it is poor design but unless the tank were located in a more exposed position along the side of the van there does not seem to be an answer. The most obvious is a solenoid operated valve but the only ones available strong enough to handle high pressure gas draw too much current to be practical on a camper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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