Guest pelmetman Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 :D............................ B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 I hate it when my cake does not rise Worse than a soggy bottom in my view......... B-) Still it is worse for the LibDems - looks like they have had a kick in the nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 LibDems?............I've heard of them I think :-S.................aren't they a fringe party for loony liberals? :D................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 pelmetman - 2014-05-23 12:33 PM LibDems?............I've heard of them I think :-S.................aren't they a fringe party for loony liberals? :D................. I forgot to add ;-).............I voted for them at the last election :D...............Only because they offered to raise the income tax threshold....................well that went well :-D........................that's the difference between us floaters and the voting lemmings ;-)..................we use the system............. as opposed to being used by the system *-)................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 Sacre Bleu 8-)..............French like fruitcake :D........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Looks like the EU has created another food mountain 8-)..................but this time of fruitcakes :D........... Eurosceptic 'earthquake' rocks EU elections Marine le Pen: "The sovereign people have spoken loudly to say they want to be master of their own destiny" Eurosceptic and far-right parties have seized ground in elections to the European parliament, in what France's PM called a "political earthquake". The French National Front and UK Independence Party both performed strongly, while the three big centrist blocs in parliament all lost seats. The outcome means a greater say for those who want to cut back the EU's powers, or abolish it completely. But EU supporters will be pleased that election turnout was slightly higher. It was 43.1%, according to provisional European Parliament figures. That would be the first time turnout had not fallen since the previous election - but would only be an improvement of 0.1%. Highlights (based on exit polls/provisional results) France National Front storm to victory - 25%, 25 seats; Centre-right UMP 21%; President Hollande's Socialists a poor third with 14% - lowest ever EP score Britain Eurosceptic UKIP in first place, with 27%, Conservatives on 24% and Labour about 25%, Greens beating Lib Dems Italy Centre-left PM Matteo Renzi scores strong 40%, fending off ex-comic Beppe Grillo's anti-establishment Five Star with 22%, and ex-PM Silvio Berlusconi's Forza Italia with 16% Germany Angela Merkel wins another election - 35% for her Christian Union, 27% for the centre-left SPD. Eurosceptic AfD score strong 7% Greece Partial results show far-left Syriza on 26%, PM Antonis Samaras' New Democracy on 23%. Far-right Golden Dawn set to get three MEPs, with 9% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Indeed it does seem that way Dave And it most certainly seems that the Lib Dems were well and truly kicked in the euro nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 From the latest figs - one thing that particularly pleases me is the loss's of the BNP Good result! Party Votes % MEPs +/- UKIP 27.50 +10.99 23 +10 LAB 25.40 +9.67 18 +7 CON 23.94 -3.80 18 -7 GRN 7.87 -0.75 3 +1 LD 6.87 -6.88 1 -9 PC 0.71 -0.13 1 0 SNP 2.44 0.34 0 0 BNP 1.14 -5.10 0 -2 Edit http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27571451 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archiesgrandad Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 I wonder if our political leaders realise that unless they do something to convince those Ukip voters that their wishes are being taken seriously before the election next year, then Ukip will get lots of votes again, and we will have, at best, another hung parliament. AGD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 DC will have to bite the bullet and do a deal with UKIP if he wants to be PM again ;-)................... Looks like Farage has replaced Cleggy as king maker, as everyone I've spoken to will be voting UKIP again next year :D.................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Hmmmmmm! - watching some of the interviews - it seems that Labour in particular are banking on "the UKIP bubble bursting" before the next election. What unbelievable arrogance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Dave, did you once say a bit of you is from the Isle of Dogs (I don't wish to know which bit) :D And your name wouldn't happen to be Mustahva Pouffe would it....read on, some good old Anglo Saxon and Uddersfield names here. .............................................................................. Watching the voting returns last night on the telly the commentator apologised for a delay in the Tower Hamlets declaration. For those 'oop north' Tower Hamlets is an area of central London - they have problems. This morning a councillor from TH (Peter Golds) went public on his version of what went on. This is not meant to be a party poplitical broadcast (they are all theiving ba****ds) but makes interesting reading. I was, for obvious reasons, at both omnishambles. We were asked to attend the Mile End Leisure centre at 2pm, Sunday for the council counts with the European count commencing at 4pm. We were let in at 3pm and then the chaos started. Any checks on people attending soon collapsed, particularly when the Supreme Ruler, Mayor Lutfur, was instructing his fan club from across London to walk in and enjoy the panto. However, ex Councillor Kabir Ahmed (Tower Hamlets First, Weavers ward) was barred from entering the count as he had revealed details of the first figures on his facebook page. Presumably he stayed at home in Gants Hill, Redbridge. There were arguments, threats, and chaos at the counting tables. Tower Hamlets First supporters were challenging vote after vote, forcing supporters of other candidates away from the tables. They often made their points ( excuse the pun) with pencils and pens, against ballot papers.The supreme ruler smiled, whilst checking town hall staff were not stopping his supporters from doing exactly what they wanted. Former Cllr Mohammed Shahid Ali (defeated Mile End) was bawling in Bangla down a mobile phone at a counting table. He was asked by a (female) officer to stop and he shouted that she ( emphasise she) had no right to tell him to stop doing anything and that she (emphasise she) should go away.I drew this to the attention of the returning officer and Shahid Ali then needed to be restrained from attacking me. Tower Hamlets has interesting rules on the media at counts. Mainstream journalists can only be on the counting floor if they are escorted by a member of the town hall staff at all times. The special media, that supports the supreme ruler, is excluded from this, so, for example everywhere I went I was stalked by a weird old trot who kept taking flash photographs of me in my face and then grinning. He declined to say what organ he reported for. He was not afraid of expressing his views as he shouted the short version of "see you next Tuesday", during one of the declarations. Despite everything we had been told, the count was a shocker. There was a a 21% discrepancy in the votes in Island Gardens between the first two counts. Issues regarding our count process that I raised as far back as 2009 were ignored and there was no change at all; despite the fine words of the electoral commission. I will be writing to them on Tuesday, with more details and will make my letter public. Read more: http://vote-2012.pro...7#ixzz32p1qQKrF This is an interesting page - not sure his motives but the whole issue looks dodgy. http://www.conservat...-on-and-on.html Is it any wonder why UKIP had a good showing. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody. Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Archiesgrandad - 2014-05-26 11:39 AM I wonder if our political leaders realise that unless they do something to convince those Ukip voters that their wishes are being taken seriously before the election next year, then Ukip will get lots of votes again, and we will have, at best, another hung parliament. AGD From what ive read merkal and her euro cronies seem to think that they can get everybody back on board by offering the populas lower taxes so that they have more money in their pockets , if you were made a little richer by lower taxation etc would you walk away from ukip , i for one wouldnt . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Considering UKIP received 50% of the vote in Boston B-)..................I suspect the sitting Conservative MP is considering what life after politics will be like ;-)................. Newark by election should be interesting :D...................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 UKIP 'not the answer' to 21st Century issues says Blair Tony Blair UKIP has "no solutions to the problems of the 21st Century", former Prime Minister Tony Blair has said. The Labour politician said the EU needed to "listen and lead" in response to the outcome of elections, which saw a rise in support for anti-EU parties, and stop doing "irritating" things". Mr Blair said it must also "confront and expose" parties like UKIP. *******"You look underneath that UKIP facade and you see something pretty nasty and unpleasant," he told BBC Radio 4.********** Say's the warmongering hypocrite *-)............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 They really do not get it - do they.............. >:-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symbol Owner Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 CliveH - 2014-05-27 10:42 AM They really do not get it - do they.............. >:-( I think that some of them do ............. here's what the founder of UKIP (Alan Sked) thinks of his successor: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/may/26/ukip-founder-alan-sked-party-become-frankensteins-monster I particularly enjoyed the comment about Farrago himself:- " "Behind that image is someone who isn't bright," says Sked, who recalls trying to give the public school-educated Farage remedial grammar lessons: "I spent two hours trying to explain to him the difference between 'it's' with an apostrophe and 'its' without and he just flounced out the office saying, 'I just don't understand words.'" Sked recalls, too, the letters of complaint he received from Salisbury, when Farage stood for Ukip in 1997's general election. "I remember one that said, 'I'm very glad your candidate believes in education, but until he learns to spell it, I'm not voting for him.' That's the kind of person people are voting for when they vote Ukip. Why does anyone have time for this creature? He's a dimwitted racist." Perhaps the British electorate might 'get it' at the general election -- heaven help us if it doesn't! Cheers, Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Unfortunately Colin - your post simply underlines the issue I am making. I have consistently said that I rate Farage as little more that a bit of a buffoon. The vote for UKIP may well be a protest vote - but it is surely a protest vote AGAINST the status quo (and in case anyone gets confused I am talking here about the literal meaning not the Rock Group) - we had pretty much a protest at the last election when neither of the two main parties managed to get an outright majority. In these latest local and EU elections - we have a HUGE increase in votes for the one party that has made its anti EU stance its main agenda. In these latest local and EU elections - we have a HUGE decrease in votes for the one party that has made its pro EU stance its main agenda What many people Colin, including you it seems "do not get" is that a revolution always occurs from within. The way the EU is set up at the moment, individual states have little or no say in what the EU does. So voting in countries elections is in many ways irrelevant if the EU dictates policy. After decades of the various populations of the EU relying on their own governments to set policy and failing, the populations across Europe seem to finally have twigged that by voting in anti EU politicians to the European Parliament is hopefully a better way of checking the excesses of the political monster that EU has become than relying on the toothless tigers that our own parliaments have been reduced to. So regardless of the UK electorate "getting it" such that they either vote for or against any particular party in a year or so's time here in the UK - surely the result is immaterial - the voters have already had there say - and what they have clearly said to our own politicians is that unless you listen to what we say and not what your teams of spin doctors say, we are quite capable of derailing your gravy train. Snide comments about individuals tend to backfire on those making the comments - you may like to consider your actions in that regard Colin I read the Guardian because frankly, I like a laugh the same as the next bloke - I feel the same about the Daily Mail - It is sad that such a once excellent paper is reduced to the vitriolic joke that it is today. They really do not get it - but that does not surprise me - they embrace the typical ad hom stupidity of the Left and in so doing give even more power to Farage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigal55 Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Symbol Owner - 2014-05-27 3:27 PM CliveH - 2014-05-27 10:42 AM They really do not get it - do they.............. >:-( I think that some of them do ............. here's what the founder of UKIP (Alan Sked) thinks of his successor: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/may/26/ukip-founder-alan-sked-party-become-frankensteins-monster I particularly enjoyed the comment about Farrago himself:- " "Behind that image is someone who isn't bright," says Sked, who recalls trying to give the public school-educated Farage remedial grammar lessons: "I spent two hours trying to explain to him the difference between 'it's' with an apostrophe and 'its' without and he just flounced out the office saying, 'I just don't understand words.'" Sked recalls, too, the letters of complaint he received from Salisbury, when Farage stood for Ukip in 1997's general election. "I remember one that said, 'I'm very glad your candidate believes in education, but until he learns to spell it, I'm not voting for him.' That's the kind of person people are voting for when they vote Ukip. Why does anyone have time for this creature? He's a dimwitted racist." Perhaps the British electorate might 'get it' at the general election -- heaven help us if it doesn't! Cheers, Colin. Colin during the expences scandle Jack Straw, a long time minister, stated "i,m not very good with paperwork" when questioned about his expences. They made him a lord. 8-) Makes you wonder why we got in the *&%$£. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Symbol Owner - 2014-05-27 3:27 PM..................... He's a dimwitted racist."............ Colin. But perhaps you forget, Colin - there are many, many, followers of that creed! :-) The main problems all the established parties, in most of the Euro states, face, are IMO the consequences of the prolonged economic downturn. This seems to be leading to two reactions. First, blame the foreigners/immigrants for present woes - mainly IMO self-inflicted within the states worst affected, but inevitably not by the average bod, who consequently feels hacked off and looks for simple, obvious answers. Second, get back "control" of our own country, generally meaning close the borders to further immigration and then get back to higher employment which only EU membership and its layers of "red tape" prevent us achieving. Both "solutions" have the appeal of a return to a half-remembered, and much mythologised, history of glory and national security. I wouldn't, personally, generally give twopence for Blair's opinions - he had his chances, took them, and IMO judged badly - but his comment that a return to former times as a solution to present times is an illusion, seems to me sound. We shall see in time what our great, unanswerable, electorate decides, but anyone who imagines that a majority is bound to be right is likely to be disabused in time. Too late will they realise, as ever. Majorities govern the direction of travel of democracies: they are what politicians of all persuasions have to work with. That is why so many seem endlessly to twist in the wind - giving rise to many allegations of spinelessness. Their heads say do one thing, and their political advisors and focus groups tell them that thing is unpopular. So, they have a best two years following an election in which to do what they feel essential, even if unpopular, after which they increasingly concentrate on the popular, even if the best available advice is that it is the "wrong" decision. The problem with the popular view is that it is too often based on poor information, and poor understanding. This seems to me inevitable, as in any political argument both (all? :-)) sides exaggerate and salami-slice to make their cases, leaving the poor elector not knowing what is fact, what mere assertion, and what complete fiction. So, he has to vote on his instincts, which have been (deliberately) distorted by all the spin and hype. Plus ça change.................? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Hmmmmm! - and let's not forget that Tony Blair had great difficulty distinguishing between a PhD thesis and real, CURRENT (at the time) data on Saddams Weapons of Mass Destruction. "The row over the "dodgy dossier" errupted when Channel Four News disclosed that large chunks of No 10's supposedly authoritative report, "Iraq - its Infrastructure of Concealment, Deception and Intimidation" had been lifted word for word from this PhD thesis by Ibrahim al-Marashi entitled more conservatively, "Iraq's Security and Intelligence Network: A Guide and Analysis". It was published in the American journal Meria in September last year and relied on information dating back to the first Gulf War." http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/politics/domestic_politics/downing+st+apologises+for+dodgy+dossier/257243.html So .............WOW! - according to the Guardian - Farage is a bit of a buffoon - and they get this from an academic who started UKIP but now wants to start another party and stand against Milliband at the next election. Shock! Horror!! Dispair!!! Prospective politician says rude things about another .......................... *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Symbol Owner - 2014-05-27 3:27 PM..................... He's a dimwitted racist."............ Colin. I did find the visual contrast of a Left wing protester against UKIP holding a "Racist" banner over a UKIP candidate that happened to be a black person beautifully ironic! http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/douglas-murray/2014/05/heres-why-people-want-to-vote-ukip/ The racist strawman argument is again a classic tactic of those who wish to discredit someone when that someone has a point that they can not deal with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symbol Owner Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 bigal55 - 2014-05-27 4:32 PM Colin, during the expenses scandal, Jack Straw, a long time minister, stated "I'm not very good with paperwork" when questioned about his expenses. They made him a lord. Oh, no they didn't, Alan, when I looked at the recent House of Commons debate in which the current Home Secretary, Theresa May was making a statement concerning the undercover police officers who spied on the Lawrence family, there was Jack Straw, M.P., the member for Blackburn recalling his own experiences wuth police surveillance when (as I remember well) he was President of the National Union of Students he's still a backbencher -- I think. Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Brian Kirby - 2014-05-27 4:44 PM Symbol Owner - 2014-05-27 3:27 PM..................... He's a dimwitted racist."............ Colin. But perhaps you forget, Colin - there are many, many, followers of that creed! :-) The main problems all the established parties, in most of the Euro states, face, are IMO the consequences of the prolonged economic downturn. This seems to be leading to two reactions. First, blame the foreigners/immigrants for present woes - mainly IMO self-inflicted within the states worst affected, but inevitably not by the average bod, who consequently feels hacked off and looks for simple, obvious answers. Second, get back "control" of our own country, generally meaning close the borders to further immigration and then get back to higher employment which only EU membership and its layers of "red tape" prevent us achieving. Both "solutions" have the appeal of a return to a half-remembered, and much mythologised, history of glory and national security. I wouldn't, personally, generally give twopence for Blair's opinions - he had his chances, took them, and IMO judged badly - but his comment that a return to former times as a solution to present times is an illusion, seems to me sound. We shall see in time what our great, unanswerable, electorate decides, but anyone who imagines that a majority is bound to be right is likely to be disabused in time. Too late will they realise, as ever. Majorities govern the direction of travel of democracies: they are what politicians of all persuasions have to work with. That is why so many seem endlessly to twist in the wind - giving rise to many allegations of spinelessness. Their heads say do one thing, and their political advisors and focus groups tell them that thing is unpopular. So, they have a best two years following an election in which to do what they feel essential, even if unpopular, after which they increasingly concentrate on the popular, even if the best available advice is that it is the "wrong" decision. The problem with the popular view is that it is too often based on poor information, and poor understanding. This seems to me inevitable, as in any political argument both (all? :-)) sides exaggerate and salami-slice to make their cases, leaving the poor elector not knowing what is fact, what mere assertion, and what complete fiction. So, he has to vote on his instincts, which have been (deliberately) distorted by all the spin and hype. Plus ça change.................? Or we have the situation as seen with Greece - where the elected Government was pushed to oneside and the country is ruled by officials put in place by the unelected muppets within the EU. "Greece and Italy now have new Prime Ministers. Neither of them have had to endure the indignity of actually standing for election. New Italian PM, Mario Monti, is a former European commissioner and an economist. Lucas Papademos, the new Greek Prime Minister, is a former Governor of the Bank of Greece (there is a great irony in a central banker being imposed as Prime Minister following a debt crisis fuelled by poor central bank decisions and a collapse of the banking system). The European debt crisis has been almost as damaging for democracy as it has been for the economies of the Eurozone. In Greece and Italy, democratic legitimacy is clearly regarded as an unaffordable luxury. If democratically elected leaders do not satisfy the markets, the IMF and the European Commission, they are now, in effect, summarily dismissed, without any reference to the wishes of the people. The unsubtle message coming out of Greece and Brussels is that international bodies believe that democratic governments have failed to tackle the economic crisis and should be replaced with more reliable (and controllable) technocratic governments. Rule by technocrats has replaced rule by the people - with unelected, economically orthodox international bodies like the European Commission and the IMF working with unelected technocrats now heading up national governments to implement tough austerity measures that have never received public backing. The democratic deficit at the heart of Europe has become a democratic chasm." http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2011/11/european-greece-technocrats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 CliveH - 2014-05-27 4:08 PM................The way the EU is set up at the moment, individual states have little or no say in what the EU does. So voting in countries elections is in many ways irrelevant if the EU dictates policy.................. Which raises and interesting question. Who, in reality, makes the decisions over which issues, and to what extent, the EU will "govern", and which, and to what extent, will be decided by individual national parliaments? To try to be clear I'm not asking who is responsible for implementation, that is clearly the executive - the civil servants - as in all states. AFAIK, as in all states, the civil servants may also propose policy and/or legislation. In the UK, whether a proposal comes from the civil service or from politicians, it only gets implemented once it has been voted in by parliament (usually for major legislation), or if it is implemented by a minister under existing enabling legislation (usually for minor legislation). So my question is, is it the European Parliament who votes in these issues to instruct the executive or, if not them, then who? I only ask because for it to be true that "individual states have little or no say in what the EU does" either the Council of Ministers or the European Council must, it seems to me, be abrogating their responsibilities. Is this really the case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.