Retread24800 Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Thinking about investing in an electric bike (e-bike, pedelec) to ease the trip into the village etc when parked up, Not looking for serious 'Tour de France' biking just when the walk is too long but not long enough to justify moving the camper.The cheap? End of the market seem to start here at about 700€ at the other extreme they are 3000€. I've seen lots at about1200€ to 1400€ and they seem to fit the bill, range up to 20km (I was thinking closer to 5!) lots of gears, usual 250W motor 36V battery pack. Such as a MatraFX+. But I'm at a loss how to interpret the number of 'power' settings; one seems to give extra help up to 6km/h would that be the same as a pedestrian mode to help push the thing when you are dismounted? Or can you use just the motor at low speeds, ie when starting off?Really any helpful advice would be appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 The power only switches on when you pedal and not when pushing. I have three settings which are slow, medium and high with the maximum speed at high being 15mph. Forget the claimed range as I have found that the a 25 mile range means 10 miles of dying electric and 15 miles of pedaling. Having said that I am delighted. Got a folder from Tesco at £450 with vouchers for tunnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 what ever you do try a few different models first. especially a Bosch powered model..I can assure you there will be no need to push it anywhere, they will climb anything. You pays for whats you gets :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky 8 Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 As your in France , have a look in Norauto fr. French equivalent of our Halfords we were recently in La Fleche and had reason to call in a Norauto , they were selling a Wayscral/wayscrol Electric bike for just 349 Euro it is not the digital battery but the lead acid type, they have a web site Norauto.fr,worth a look, if your ever parked on the Aire in La Fleche there is a chap known as Kitcar Dave, (because he has a kit car) he lives in La Fleche 6 months of the year, if he sees a GB on your reg he will no doubt make himself known to you. He has a Wayscrol bike which he uses most days and he is quite happy with it.http://www.norauto.fr/rechercher/wayscrol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Sorry Corky but cheap, heavy, Chinese tat, will be horrible to ride and as for hills...rather walk to be honest! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Eddie, I acknowledge your vast experience with electric bikes but do not think you consider individual needs or useage. I purchased well made "cheap tat" and I am delighted with it including performance and quality of build, which I think is of German manufacture which you will appreciate. My use is to doodle around short distance, as legs are starting to seize up, and not for the long distances many wish to achieve. Could I justify £1000s on "expensive tat" for such a use, absolutely not. So it's horses for courses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Whilst not in the enthusiast league like Eddie I have some experience of electric bikes and just as importantly, a lot of experience of so called 'premium' products, the greater parts of which are still made in China, Thailand, the Philippines et al. First of all to suggest that the only was to enjoy successful e-biking is by spending £2k + is like saying that you can't enjoy motorhoming unless you have a spacious and expensive A Class. As we know, many people enjoy motorhoming in a smallish PVC or a fairly old coach built. The joy of motorhoming is the travelling and the relaxing, the equipment is secondary. For most of us the joy of cycling is the act itself and the ability to explore further without the hassle of uprooting the 'van, the equipment is secondary. I say 'most of us' as I accept that for some the bike isn't just for pleasure riding but also for commuting where it becomes more of a tool. One other very important point is that an e-bike costing £2K will not be twice as good as one costing £1000. If you buy a £1000 hi-fi system or a £1000 camera, paying double will only get you a slight increase in performance. Once you reach a certain level it becomes very expensive to better the product by only a small amount. The other thing that I find odd is the talk about Chinese tat. An awful lot of an expensive German bike will be made in the Far East. Some of the best cameras in the world are made in the countries I mentioned above. Panasonic is a large Japanese company whose batteries power a lot of good e-bikes Where do you think Panasonic makes its batteries? It could be in any number of its plants from India to China and most of the countries in between. My own experience of e-bikes may be of interest to those considering a lower-priced model. The first advice I will give is to buy a recognised brand. If you buy a cheap bike from eBay it may be OK but when you want a new battery the firm may no longer exist. However, there are plenty of low-priced bike makers who have stood the test of time, and by sticking to them you minimise the risk of failing to get replacement parts or batteries. Seven years ago I bought my wife a Powacycle Windsor http://www.powacycle.co.uk/Windsor-Lithium-Polymer-Electric-Bike.asp Then it cost £585. Like many on here we wanted a bile mainly for holidays, so spending a fortune seemed silly. We used it just when motorhoming abroad and during that seven years I charged the battery every two months to keep it in tip top condition. The battery finally failed a few weeks ago on the Ile de Re. In its seventh year! I will put the bike on Gumtree for £100. A brand new battery costs £300, so for £400 the purchaser will get a bike with a perfect battery and save £300 on the new price. (The bike is available for about £700.) So for us this cheap bike has been a huge success, but Powacycle is a well known and well established brand and, whilst it's products are undoubtedly Chinese, so what? I shall end this post now as I've an appointment at 9.45 a.m. but later I shall show members how they can still by an e-bike for a reasonable price and prove to them that some of these will climb the steepest hills without a problem. I've done a lot of research for a new bike for my wife, it's arrived and it's superb. More to follow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Oh dear..its not all about the money. I will say this for the sake of clarity. If you want to rediscover the JOY of cycling when you were young, when hills not a real challenge, your money better of spent on a center drive/crank drive bike from the likes of Bosch/Panasonic. They are near silent, light weight with excellent handling, power delivery is bionic in nature, you press on the peddle and power there immediately, very reliable (I can assure hub motor bikes are not! Been there done that). Riding them sheer pleasure..I personally find it absolutely astonishing that some can spend tens of thousands on a camper and expect to get a decent cycling experience for a few hundred quid Please..Just try a few before you buy...I use our e bikes far more then the van, they have changed my life and my fitness..money well spent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 I'm sorry Eddie, but it is about money! People who will only use their bikes on holiday and for nipping to the shops up the road from the campsite do not want to spend £2000 on an e-bike. If it's a hobby and you also commute then you can justify the cost but for most of us we do not want to spend a fortune on something that will be used sporadically. I have proved and will do so again that you can have enjoyable e-biking, including going up hills, for a lot less than the dosh that you're always mentioning. I agree entirely with your comments about buying unbranded and little-known bikes on eBay but it is possible to buy a moderately-priced bike from an established and reputable manufacturer and not spend a fortune. Seven years ago I bought an eZee Liv, another medium-price bike and it was fine for me and took me up lots of hills. I sold it for £250 two years ago as I decided that I'd like to get fit and I bought a lightweight road bike which has been great for cycling on levelish roads but I've realised that I'm never going to cycle enough to get really fit for the hills. Consequently I'm buying a new eBike for myself. It won't be a £400 eBay one and neither will it be a plus £2K German model but one costing about £800 from a firm that's establishing a very good reputation for value and quality. Oh, and my wife's new bike is a crank drive, works superbly up hills, has a large 15AH battery and cost £799! More to follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retread24800 Posted July 1, 2014 Author Share Posted July 1, 2014 Oh dear what have I started.....................I agree that the ultimate in E-Bikes would be a Bosch type centre crank motor because the couple from the motor is increased by the gearing and thus hill climbing is vastly better.That being said the proposed use, Shopping, short hops from the van does not justify the 2200€ minimum cost of these. For the same price I could but an electric scooter ie the MATRA EMO PLUS HD with a far better performance and no bug+++ing about with pedals. O.K so I would need to insure and register it but the insurance seems to be a no brainer anyway. I could use the Motor bike rack on the back to carry it too Hmmmmmm..I will not buy a bike with a lead-acid battery, too little life and too heavy, and unfortunately that is what you seem to get at the bargain basement end of the spectrum.I prefer an Ally frame and hope to bring the total weight in at under 22.5KgDoes anybody have any comparison on hub motor bikes, difference between back wheel and front drive, 24 or 36V and I'm still interested in the power settings, the lower end only offer two or three, the more expensive offer 4 plus mode peiton, perhaps this is available only outside the U.K? I envisage that I will spend quite a bit of the time off the bike shopping, rubber necking, in pedestrian areas, etc. so assistance would be a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 there are at least 3 used Bosch and Panasonic bikes second hand on Gumtree at the moment, for between £800-£1200. A far more enlightened purchase... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallii Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 I bought two "Electrobikes" from A.S. Bikes http://www.folding-bikes.net/asbikes/ They are made in China and are not the top end of the range by any means. However, they fold, are light 23kg with an alloy frame. For what we need, i.e. lightweight, folding, with a good range (we have done in excess of 28kms, depends on how much you pedal!), excellent spares and repairs, they are fine, and all from a family run company. We use them mainly on hols and they travel on the bike rack but will fold and fit in the boot of my car if needed. Of course a Bosch crank drive German made bike is much better, but at a price. The Electrobike can be pushed with motor assistance, there is a throttle that can be used without the pedals moving. There is the usual pedal assist as well. H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Retread24800 - 2014-07-01 11:39 AM Oh dear what have I started..................... You appear to have started what I'm sure will be a sensible discussion on the merits of various classes of e-bikes. It seems to be that so far! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 JudgeMental - 2014-07-01 12:19 PM there are at least 3 used Bosch and Panasonic bikes second hand on Gumtree at the moment, for between £800-£1200. A far more enlightened purchase... But are they? They're secondhand so the first problem is delivering or collecting it. The next potential problem is the cost of repairs should the crank drive or motor pack in in three months, and the third and most likely problem is how much life is left in the battery. How long will it be before you have to shell out another £400 for a new one? There's a very good reason why they're half price! The bikes I'll mention in another post later are brand new, fully guaranteed, delivered to your door and the battery should last you at least three years, and, with good management, even longer. If I were like you used to be, commuting every day and now possibly cycling more and more as a hobby I'd be happy to spend a couple of grand on an e-bike, but like many people on here I'm a light and sporadic user and I've proved to my satisfaction that you can get good service, long life and comfortable cycling for a lot less. But again to be clear, I'm not endorsing cheap unbranded stuff, but bikes from established companies which specialise in the middle market. The one thing that seems clear is that many members on here are looking for reasonably-priced bikes and not top of the range models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 6 year + on Bosch and Panasonic batteries...in a different league Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 JudgeMental - 2014-07-01 12:51 PM 6 year + on Bosch and Panasonic batteries...in a different league Certainly in a different price league so I should hope that they'll last a bit longer. A replacement lithium battery 36v 15 AH for mine and my wife's new bike is £315. And as I posted above, the battery for her previous Powacycle failed in its seventh year although to be fair it was probably down to 50% capacity after five years. But that costs £300 and not about £600! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 There's only so much "research" you can do..Only way to really tell is to have a PROPER test ride including hills, as that's presumably where most of us desire the assistance. A quick jolly up around a car park dont really cut it. lets see how it works out for her further down the line....have had holidays ruined with e bike problems in the past, motor wheel failures, electrical failures, and they were decent brand Chinese bikes..... Please don't tell me its something like a Woosh..... FYI should you eventually need to you can buy Bosch/Panasonic batteries on German e bay for 3-400 quid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 I've been in and out all morning so at last here is the info on my wife's new e-bike. It's a Woosh Santana CD. Crank drive, 36v 15 AH lithium battery and it flies up hills. http://www.wooshbikes.co.uk/?santana-cd Woosh have made a reputation in the last three years for supplying reasonably-priced e-bikes and offering good service. When I started researching it I found this video, which is by a man called Mike Shailes. Mike used to run the advertising agency that I used before he went native and moved to Stornoway in the Hebrides. The video shows the crossbar version of bike my wife has chosen going uphill on throttle only - no pedalling at all! I spoke to Mike who tells me that he is very impressed with the bike and the service from Woosh. The bike, which cost £799, was delivered almost fully assembled and took half an hour to put the pedals and front wheel on. I rode it back from my office (it was delivered there while we were on holiday) and the fifteen mile route has some long climbs, which it tackled easily. The final climb to my house is up a very steep hill and I had to put a bit of effort in but was still only in second gear. But I'm talking steep! It's incredible value, the battery alone being 15 AH is superb and guarantees longer distances than many other makes. And replacement batteries are only £315 as opposed to an awful lot more for other more famous makes. Drawbacks - yes of course. It's probably heavier than some of the expensive German ones but that's irrelevant when riding it and only matters if you have to lift it single-handedly on to a high bike rack. It's only available mail order for most people. They have one shop in Cambridge though where you can try them out. I was prepared to buy it unseen because of the very positive reviews and especially because of the positive experience of my old friend Mike Shailes. Yes, they're Chinese, so what? As I said earlier, there are some top brand names in all industries whose products, or most of them, originate in China. I won't claim for one minute that it's as good as Eddie's expensive German bikes, but the important thing is that it's good enough for me and, as a sporadic user, I feel much happier spending £800 on a bike that will be used for just a few weeks a year than shelling out £2000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 JudgeMental - 2014-07-01 1:31 PM There's only so much "research" you can do..Only way to really tell is to have a PROPER test ride including hills, as that's presumably where most of us desire the assistance. A quick jolly up around a car park dont really cut it. lets see how it works out for her further down the line....have had holidays ruined with e bike problems in the past, motor wheel failures, electrical failures, and they were decent brand Chinese bikes..... Please don't tell me its something like a Woosh..... FYI should you eventually need to you can buy Bosch/Panasonic batteries on German e bay for 3-400 quid Yep, it's a Woosh! But remember, her last one was a £600 Powacycle and she had almost seven years of good cycling out of it! There's a lot of very knowledgeable people on the Pedelecs forum many of whom have very positive experiences of Woosh bikes having owned them and tested them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 I already guessed what it was in previous post.... Getting a bit overenthusiastic with the praise, based on sod all experience. I can assure you they are crude in comparison to a German bike, rather walk or catch a bus :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 JudgeMental - 2014-07-01 1:52 PM I already guessed what it was in previous post.... Getting a bit overenthusiastic with the praise, based on sod all experience. I can assure you they are crude in comparison to a German bike, rather walk or catch a bus :D It got me home from my office in 75 minutes without sweating! Walking would have taken five hours! Given the choice I know you'd choose the bike rather than walk! ;-) And I'm relating the praise of others, one of whom I know well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyishuk Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Get even more contradictory and confusing advice Visit http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/ :D Rgds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Hmmm....For real advice look on German pedelec forum...It has a proper knowledge base, not just a bunch of throttle jockeys:D http://www.pedelecforum.de/forum/index.php If your savvy you can pick up quality e bikes in end of season sales, as 2015 bikes come out in the spring each year. my Haibike cost £2800 here I got it for £1400 last year. that's if your happy with importing...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 I don't normally get involved with electric bike threads as I don't know much about them. What does amaze me is how some people expect to pay a few hundred quid for an electric bike when you can't even buy a standard push bike for that sort of money that I would class as ridable. Also I don't see how you can buy by mail order as each manufacturer frame sizes tend to vary it's just not possible to get a bike that suits your body frame without trying out various brands and frame sizes. I know for a fact I need a different frame size on a Marin than I do on a Specialized. As Eddie says there is no substitute for going to a shop that specialises in them and trying out a few. Another option is to modify your existing bike when we get to the point of needing assistance thats probably the route I'll take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 lennyhb - 2014-07-01 5:43 PM I don't normally get involved with electric bike threads as I don't know much about them. What does amaze me is how some people expect to pay a few hundred quid for an electric bike when you can't even buy a standard push bike for that sort of money that I would class as ridable. Also I don't see how you can buy by mail order as each manufacturer frame sizes tend to vary it's just not possible to get a bike that suits your body frame without trying out various brands and frame sizes. I know for a fact I need a different frame size on a Marin than I do on a Specialized. As Eddie says there is no substitute for going to a shop that specialises in them and trying out a few. Another option is to modify your existing bike when we get to the point of needing assistance thats probably the route I'll take. You can get a very rideable push bike for a couple of hundred pounds and there are thousands of people out there who'll testify to that. And as for being unable to get a decent e-bike for a few hundred pounds, once more, there are thousands of people out there who are very happy with their moderately-priced e-bikes, as contributors to this forum prove time and time again. As for buying mail order, once more thousands of people do so satisfactorily. The important thing is the frame size and if you're happy with that the rest is easily configurable. You can change the saddle height, the handlebar height and the handlebar distance and rake. We're not talking here about racing bikes for people who must have it made to measure. These are bikes for pottering about and days out touring gently. And didn't Eddie just mention that he bought his last bike mail order? (lol) When you buy a normal road bike for over a thousand pounds you don't get a bespoke article. You get a choice of maybe three frame sizes and that's it. How is an electric bike any different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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