Guest pelmetman Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 http://www.england.nhs.uk/2014/03/05/missed-appts/ I have a theory that most of the missed appointments are generated by the NHS *-).................. Last year I needed an Op and during the pre assessment told them my holiday dates............what happens?........I get a phone call in Cornwall asking where I am.....eh?.............missed appointment *-)............ Er in doors required a scan this year, gave our holiday dates..................get back.................letter re your missed appointment 8-)............... NHS....................National Hopeless Service :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Good job it's free then innit!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Tracker - 2014-07-23 7:50 PM Good job it's free then innit!! Free???..................So what are my stealth taxes paying for? :-S................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 pelmetman - 2014-07-23 7:57 PM Tracker - 2014-07-23 7:50 PM Good job it's free then innit!! Free???..................So what are my stealth taxes paying for? :-S................ OK then - you would be paying the same up front and stealth taxes whether or not you have or do not have any medical treatment - agreed?? On that basis, as your treatment costs you no more or no less either way it must be free - innit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Tracker - 2014-07-23 8:35 PM pelmetman - 2014-07-23 7:57 PM Tracker - 2014-07-23 7:50 PM Good job it's free then innit!! Free???..................So what are my stealth taxes paying for? :-S................ OK then - you would be paying the same up front and stealth taxes whether or not you have or do not have any medical treatment - agreed?? On that basis, as your treatment costs you no more or no less either way it must be free - innit? Eh? :-S....................If your reducing the topic to basic fundamentals Rich?........then yes when I walk in the door its free ;-)..................but I'm flagging up the issue that in my view the NHS in indulging in the old 2 card shuffle to spin their statistics *-).................and the longer you folk of the status quo era are prepared to put up with it *-)...............then it will remain the ailing elf service :-|................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Putting up with eh? But it ain't me who is grumbling now is it? If you are so disgruntled with the continual cock ups and inept government that we have enjoyed since 1945 have you considered standing for parliament as a UKIP candidate and changing it from within - cos you sure as heck ain't gonna change owt from without!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Tracker - 2014-07-23 9:14 PM Putting up with eh? But it ain't me who is grumbling now is it? If you are so disgruntled with the continual cock ups and inept government that we have enjoyed since 1945 have you considered standing for parliament as a UKIP candidate and changing it from within - cos you sure as heck ain't gonna change owt from without!! Sorry Rich I ain't falling for that old trick ;-)...................Because as soon as you sell your soul to a agenda then your compelled to flog their spin *-).......................I'm an independent bloke and will nail my colours to who ever is singing my song as a fundamental nice bloke B-).............unlike the lemmings who for some strange reason can not think outside their perceived class :-|............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Sorry Dave, but that sounds like a real cop out to me? You complain that nobody does anything to right the wrongs but are not prepared to do anything yourself except complain. I ain't falling for that old trick either! Just watch out you don't become like the famous mother in law beer - old and bitter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Tracker - 2014-07-23 9:39 PM Sorry Dave, but that sounds like a real cop out to me? You complain that nobody does anything to right the wrongs but are not prepared to do anything yourself except complain. I ain't falling for that old trick either! Just watch out you don't become like the famous mother in law beer - old and bitter! So you suggest what Rich?..............do I lie down in front of a ambulance?..............do I have a stand up row with the receptionist?.................do I send a letter to the local NHS that I've told them our holiday dates?..............do I ring them up and demand the results from the hospital that did er in doors brain scan..................but when you do, they say you have to speak to your doctor, as it was sent to your doctors, who deny receiving them *-)................and who then tell you to contact the frigging hospital >:-(............... It might of been different when you suffered a loss before Rich, and I apologise if this thread is uncomfortable :-| .................. Nevertheless pretending everything is fine and dandy is no longer sustainable................the NHS has been fiddled with for decades................and now we've ended up up with a combination of public sector and lawyer meal ticket first.................Providing health care second *-)................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I truly appreciate the thoughtful sentiment Dave but no need to apologise as it was 10 years ago now and it no longer hurts as much or as often, apart from which I would never use it as an excuse to be offended. The NHS of Wales did let my wife down very badly and you can at least draw some comfort that you don't live any further West in Wales than Cardiff or you would really know the meaning of the word abysmal service. However it ain't me who is complaining - have you tried enlisting the support of your MP! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Tracker - 2014-07-23 10:52 PM However it ain't me who is complaining - have you tried enlisting the support of your MP! That won't solve the endemic problems with the NHS Rich which this thread was about...................It'll just get us to the top of the screaming annoying patient list *-)............... I know this thread will not make an iota of difference, but as a society we need to decide where the NHS priorities should go..................and lining the pockets of administrators and lawyers was not in my opinion the vision of Aneurin Bevan :-|........................ Progress eh? *-)................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerC Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Gentlemen your previous posts sum up quite well between you what is wrong with the NHS....in essence it has morphed into a boated management heavy organisation too centered on targets than patient service/care. I called my local surgery recently wanting an appointment to be told yes we have one in 3.......yes three bloody weeks time.....my response was I might be dead by then. The receptionist said....'oh is it important then?' My response was 'not overly but certainly more urgent than 3 weeks'. She then asked what was the problem/issue to which I replied 'why are you medically qualified?' Her response......'if you tell me I can see if the duty doctor will give you a call back'............So now I have to tell a bloody receptionist what I 'think' is wrong so she can tell a doctor who might, on the basis of her chinese whispers, call me back!!!! Anyway telling the receptionist you recently got back from the Congo and your eyeballs are bleeding ensures you jump the queue, get a call back by the doctor, discuss the truth and get an appointment in 'sensible time'......now this shouldn't be necessary but in this day and age of targets etc it seems to be the only way to be seen in a timely manner. As for missed appointments..............IMO 3 strikes and you're out unless you have a paper trail to prove it was not of your making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 We have moved about a bit over the years and - Wales apart - have never had any problems with GP surgeries, either in getting a prompt appointment, appropriate action by the GP / nurse practitioner, or in attitude. Sure, the occasional mistakes have been made but they have been quickly and apologetically put right. Hospitals have not been quite so good with delays, inept management and excuses but at least here in Evesham our local small hospital which appears disorganised and spread over several buildings as it evolved has been pretty good - so far. I agree the NHS needs revamping to meet current treatment types and needs and it is easy to write it off as a bloated management nightmare, but let us not forget just how good it can be for millions of people whose lives have been improved and saved by timely treatment, some of which is very expensive. There are many dedicated and highly skilled people working on the front line in hospitals and surgeries and in the main they are undeserving of all the vitriol and flack that gets poured at them just because they are the patient's only point of contact. Perhaps each department's managers office should be named and in or very close to reception so that complaints can be leveled at the manager and not the staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candapack Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 RogerC - 2014-07-23 11:38 PMGentlemen your previous posts sum up quite well between you what is wrong with the NHS....in essence it has morphed into a boated management heavy organisation too centered on targets than patient service/care. I called my local surgery recently wanting an appointment to be told yes we have one in 3.......yes three bloody weeks time.....my response was I might be dead by then. The receptionist said....'oh is it important then?' My response was 'not overly but certainly more urgent than 3 weeks'. She then asked what was the problem/issue to which I replied 'why are you medically qualified?' Her response......'if you tell me I can see if the duty doctor will give you a call back'............So now I have to tell a bloody receptionist what I 'think' is wrong so she can tell a doctor who might, on the basis of her chinese whispers, call me back!!!! Anyway telling the receptionist you recently got back from the Congo and your eyeballs are bleeding ensures you jump the queue, get a call back by the doctor, discuss the truth and get an appointment in 'sensible time'......now this shouldn't be necessary but in this day and age of targets etc it seems to be the only way to be seen in a timely manner. As for missed appointments..............IMO 3 strikes and you're out unless you have a paper trail to prove it was not of your making.My daughter had the "you can see a doctor in 3 weeks" experience. So she called NHS 24 out of hours and was seen at our local minor injuries clinic that same evening, then referred to her GP who saw her a couple of days later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Missed hospital(and GP) appointments should be charged for, just as they would if you failed to attend a dental appointment). People play holy hell, if they stay in to wait for a delivery or a tradesman, only for it/them not to turn up, so why should failing to attend medical appoints be deemed acceptable?... That's one problem with something that is "free at the point of delivery" folk just end up not valuing it! My OH is a frontline NHS clinician and she says "no-shows" are a very real problem. In many cases they, the clinicians, have gathered files, reports, chased up xrays etc from other depts.(sometimes other hospitals!), just for the patient not to bother turnning up. Common excuses include: " I was having my hair done / I had the grandkids for the day / I felt a bit better / as the weather was nice,we went out for lunch.." etc!). ..and failing to turn up, for the above reasons shows that these "patients" don't prioritise their health very highly Also, ..I just forgot.., isn't so credible anymore either,not with the likes of txts messages being sent out(...they don't "forget" to stay in for their on-line shopping delivery,do they?!). And interestingly she says the worst groups for "no-shows" are those who are no longer working and therefore can "afford" the time to attend anyway...ie OAPs and/or those on "long term sick" etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightrider Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 In the last 8 years I have been involved with the NHS I can honestly say I have had no problems with them, the odd change of appointments that's all, the only complaint I have had is those damned hard chairs you have to sit on, solved that by taking up a suitable square of memory foam I bought from Bury market, problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 pepe63 - 2014-07-24 8:33 AM Missed hospital(and GP) appointments should be charged for, just as they would if you failed to attend a dental appointment). People play holy hell, if they stay in to wait for a delivery or a tradesman, only for it/them not to turn up, so why should failing to attend medical appoints be deemed acceptable?... That's one problem with something that is "free at the point of delivery" folk just end up not valuing it! My OH is a frontline NHS clinician and she says "no-shows" are a very real problem. In many cases they, the clinicians, have gathered files, reports, chased up xrays etc from other depts.(sometimes other hospitals!), just for the patient not to bother turnning up. Common excuses include: " I was having my hair done / I had the grandkids for the day / I felt a bit better / as the weather was nice,we went out for lunch.." etc!). ..and failing to turn up, for the above reasons shows that these "patients" don't prioritise their health very highly Also, ..I just forgot.., isn't so credible anymore either,not with the likes of txts messages being sent out(...they don't "forget" to stay in for their on-line shopping delivery,do they?!). And interestingly she says the worst groups for "no-shows" are those who are no longer working and therefore can "afford" the time to attend anyway...ie OAPs and/or those on "long term sick" etc... Undoubtedly true, but the OP related to appointments being set by a hospital during times the patient had already confirmed that they would be away, and then being recorded as missed appointments. This hasn't been our experience locally, and IMO Dave really should get on the 'phone to his local hospital administrator and contest the allegation that the appointents were missed. By not doing this he is jeopardising his own standing by being incorrectly recorded as unreliable. The fault is theirs, others do better, and they need to fix their system. Right and left hands! It is called management: someone is getting paid to do it, so should do what they are being paid for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 But do we know that the area(Trust?) in question, has the provision to "reserve/block out" dates in such a way..? They may not..? So just because someone may've handed in some dates or "tells" some clinician or receptionist, doesn't necessarily mean that they will have any influence on any "waiting list"/op' date.... Any pre-ops that either myself or my OH have had, have been within a week to ten days of the op'... (..and this "timescale" was stated to us on our pre-op' appointment letters)and as such I/we wouldn't have gone away on holiday, knowing that we may be receiving an appointment letter.. Obviously I can only speak for how it has worked in our area, the time span between pre-op and the operation may be far greater in the area being discussed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 ....but for an appointment to have been missed.....an appointment must have been "made" (in that the hospital, at least, must have issued a date/time, and explicitly or implicitly sought agreement to it). If there is no such agreement, then (IMO) there can be no concept of a "missed" appointment. Dave is, however, silent as to this part of the process. Our local Trust (even though it is in special measures ;-( ) requires 'phone confirmation that an appointment is acceptable (initial notification is generally by letter, but may be by 'phone). If they don't receive that confirmation, then the appointment is cancelled. Also, IMO, relying on any large organisation, let alone the NHS, to be able to recall from file dates/times when not available is chancing your luck. (Which is why, in the face of proliferation of "no shows", the above process or something similar is probably a good idea). As Pepe says, our local Doctor's surgery uses text messages the previous day to remind, and prompt for possible cancellation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 pepe63 - 2014-07-25 1:31 PM So just because someone may've handed in some dates or "tells" some clinician or receptionist, doesn't necessarily mean that they will have any influence on any "waiting list"/op' date.... There's no may about it Pepe ;-).....................I saw the pre op nurse write my holiday dates on her form *-)...... I seem to recall some years ago the NHS being accused of deliberately booking operations, when they knew the patient was on holiday in order to fiddle the waiting list figures :-|.................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Robinhood - 2014-07-25 2:45 PM ....but for an appointment to have been missed.....an appointment must have been "made" (in that the hospital, at least, must have issued a date/time, and explicitly or implicitly sought agreement to it). If there is no such agreement, then (IMO) there can be no concept of a "missed" appointment. Dave is, however, silent as to this part of the process. . As stated above I saw the nurse write down holiday dates...................the letter telling me my appointment date arrived the day after we left................the appointment was for the following week...................the first I knew about it was a phone call from the hospital when I was walking along the beach at Marizon asking where I was *-)................. I'm not complaining though as the reports for Boston hospital are not the most encouraging, and I believe they're still in special measures? :-|..................ended up going to Louth an all together much better experience B-), because Boston would not remake the appointment as I'd been kicked off the waiting list..................smells familiar eh? >:-)............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Cock-up rather than conspiracy, I think, but you/we'll never know unless you tackle them over the oversight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Brian Kirby - 2014-07-25 5:48 PM Cock-up rather than conspiracy, I think, but you/we'll never know unless you tackle them over the oversight. Possibly Brian.................but to be honest I'd rather spend my time in the camper, rather than a pointless exercise in fighting pubic sector incompetence/dishonesty *-).............. Life's to short.................I have pork pies to eat...........and cheap wine to drink................priorities are everything to a wise man :D........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 pelmetman - 2014-07-25 6:02 PM Life's to short.................I have pork pies to eat...........and cheap wine to drink................priorities are everything to a wise man :D........... You've got that round the wrong way Dave. It's eating too many pork pies............ and drinking too much cheap wine............... that makes life too short. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 pelmetman - 2014-07-25 6:02 PM Brian Kirby - 2014-07-25 5:48 PM Cock-up rather than conspiracy, I think, but you/we'll never know unless you tackle them over the oversight. Possibly Brian.................but to be honest I'd rather spend my time in the camper, rather than a pointless exercise in fighting pubic sector incompetence/dishonesty *-).............. Life's to short.................I have pork pies to eat...........and cheap wine to drink................priorities are everything to a wise man :D........... So do we all Dave, in our different ways! :-) But, we are then condemned to go on suffering the incompetences, because they can plead ignorance. They don't self-test their systems. Better to spend the time, IMO, on a polite but critical letter to the Trust chief exec, than in impotent railings on here. As you say, it is all about prioritising one's time. You're wasting yours! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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