Advice on importing.

[Guest JudgeMental]

But its not registered is it *-)

 

Jeez thought Kirbys a worry puss you take the biscuit. Your insured fully comp from port to home/test station

[Guest JudgeMental]

I did say earlier if you look on american import forums there is police input. and examples of people being stopped and allowed to continue. traffic police have more to worry about i can assure you then a law abiding citizen importing a new vehicle. so what they going to do..seize and crush, spank your bottom..who cares

 

anyway, as has been said get a trade driver to deliver it if nervous.....

[Derek Uzzell]

JudgeMental - 2014-09-05 10:32 AM

 

But its not registered is it *-)

 

Jeez thought Kirbys a worry puss you take the biscuit. Your insured fully comp from port to home/test station

 

Isn’t the fact that a motorhome is being driven unregisterd on UK roads the whole problem?

 

The motorhome being imported will either not have been registered (temporarily) abroad, in which case it will display no registration plates, or it will have been registered abroad, in which case it will display foreign registration plates. Either way it’s going to conflict with the DVLA’s INFO106 statement to vehicle importers that

 

"If you are going to use a vehicle on the public road it must be registered, taxed and insured. A British resident must not drive a vehicle displaying foreign registration number plates in the UK.”

 

The fact that the vehicle is insured is neither here nor there. Nor does it matter what the rationale behind the DVLA’s statement or any UK law it’s based on might be.

 

When I imported my Hobby in 2005 I understood that driving the motorhome the 130 miles from Portsmouth to my home infringed UK law and I still believe this would be true if I did the same now. I did not have the vehicle’s kmh speedometer and right-dipping headlamps changed prior to UK-registration as I was confident I could get away with it - but I knew this also infringed UK law. So I’m not exactly risk-averse, nor am I particularly concerned about UK law when it suits me to ignore it.

 

I suspect that, if Had Enough chooses to buy a motorhome abroad, there’s a good chance he will consider driving it from the UK port to his home. If he accepts yours and lennyhb’s arguments (that, to me, seem to be logically haphazard) that it’s perfectly legal to do this, that’s his business. But I believe it is not legal and, if Had Enough is concerned about legal risk (be it ever so small in practice) he may wish to confirm whether you and lennhb are right or I am.

 

You, lennyhb, Brian Kirby and I have all driven non-UK-registered imported motorhomes from a UK port to our home. You and lennyhb apparently believe no legal risk was involved in doing this and I believe there was (I’m not sure what Brian’s view is, but I think his trip home involved the vehicle displaying no registration plates.) This is not a p***ing contest - it’s just an attempt to establish whether the DVLA’s INFO106 statement has legal foundation or not.

 

Of course there are ways to sidestep any risk - getting the vehicle transported from port to home (as the DVLA advises) or getting it driven home by a UK motor-trader. But both of those approaches cost money and the usual method to get the motorhome from UK port to home is for private cost-conscious importers to drive the vehicle home themselves.

 

I suggest we leave this with Had Enough and, if he wants to pursue the ‘legality’ issue, he can.

[Guest Had Enough]

I dread to think of the cost of a low-loader from Dover to Lancashire and will be tempted to drive carefully and take a chance.

 

On another topic, my researches into headlight conversion etc. brought up the news of the new Fiat Ducato, which was announced earlier this year. What is this model's designation and when will it begin to be available on new motorhomes, assuming of course that it's not already being used?

 

Are there any significant differences between this new model and the previous one? I ask this in case I'm offered a demonstrator based on the earlier model.

 

[Brian Kirby]

lennyhb - 2014-09-04 11:01 PM

 

two quotes from leaflet IN106 "How to import your vehicle into Great Britian"

 

"we advise you to:

 

transport, rather than drive, your vehicle from the port

to your home or its first destination"

 

"Evidence showing the date you collected the vehicle

(normally the date of the invoice from the supplier), and

how the vehicle was brought into the country

(either the temporary registration form, if the vehicle was driven, or

evidence of transportation, if it was transported)."

 

But Lenny, the quote above is incomplete.

 

What it says in full is "A British resident MUST NOT DRIVE A VEHICLE DISPLAYING FOREIGN REGISTRATION NUMBER PLATES IN THE UK (My caps). To avoid difficulties, we advise you to............................etc. etc.

 

That is why I suggest someone asks DVLA to say which legislation the prohibition comes from, and then to read the original legislation.

 

If the vehicle is on temporary German plates it will be displaying a foreign registration number. It will presumably have been registered to you by the supplying dealer, or will have been registered in the dealer's own name.

 

Traceability is the only issue I can, on further reflection, think of for this prohibition. If, for example, you are picked up speeding by a GATSO, how would you be traced? Something along those lines may underlie the prohibition. Apart from GATSOS, all it needs is a minor infringement that is noticed by a UK policeman, who also thinks the German export plates look a bit odd, who then stops you.

 

Since Frank lives in Lancs, and would have a long way to drive his import from the port, I'd suggest he talks to either Edge Hill Motorhomes or to Bundesvan. The former will get him a van, bring it to UK, do the legally necessary, register and tax it and he can collect from it from Mansfield, the latter will do likewise and deliver to Frank's house. In either case there would be a substantial saving on the normal UK price, as the vans would be sourced from a German dealer.

[Mike88]

Won't the Bundesvan person (who lives in Exeter I believe) face the same potential issues if he drives the vehicle on foreign plates?

 

I wonder what, if any, the fine would be if the Police decided to take action? That surely would be far less than the cost of transporting the vehicle on a low loader? As long as the imported vehicle is insured surely it is worth the risk of driving the vehicle from the port to home as many others must have done.

[StuartO]

Mike88 - 2014-09-06 7:58 AM

 

Won't the Bundesvan person (who lives in Exeter I believe) face the same potential issues if he drives the vehicle on foreign plates?

 

I wonder what, if any, the fine would be if the Police decided to take action? That surely would be far less than the cost of transporting the vehicle on a low loader? As long as the imported vehicle is insured surely it is worth the risk of driving the vehicle from the port to home as many others must have done.

 

I suspect Nick Legg of Bundesvan does face all the same problems, but he has a set of trade plates which he can put on as soon as he reaches a British port - although not apparently before then.

 

Despite the EU being a single market, trade plates cannot be used across borders. Because German used vehicle are sold without registration plates (so the purchaser has to get plates) Nick has to get a set of temporary Export Plates issued, and these seem to be good for a journey to Calais, i.e. through Belgium and France. Why they wouldn't serve for the transit through UK as well as these other Countries beats me.

 

[Derek Uzzell]

Had Enough - 2014-09-05 8:04 PM

 

I dread to think of the cost of a low-loader from Dover to Lancashire and will be tempted to drive carefully and take a chance.

 

On another topic, my researches into headlight conversion etc. brought up the news of the new Fiat Ducato, which was announced earlier this year. What is this model's designation and when will it begin to be available on new motorhomes, assuming of course that it's not already being used?

 

Are there any significant differences between this new model and the previous one? I ask this in case I'm offered a demonstrator based on the earlier model.

 

The latest ‘facelifted’ version of the Ducato/Boxer/Relay is referred to as “X290”. The version that it supersedes (and that was marketed from mid-2006 to this year) was referred to as “X250”.

 

Changes to the frontal-treatment (particularly the headlamps and front bumper) make it easy to distinguish a non-A-class motorhome based on the X290 from one based on the outgoing X250.

 

This link shows examples of the X290 with its much shallower-depth headlamp-units and bumper-design changes.

 

http://www.fiat-professional.eu/pages/fiat-ducato/fiat-ducato-2014.php

 

While this link shows the X250’s front/headlamps/bumper

 

http://www.ledcom.co.uk/day_running_lights_curved_kit_for_fiat_ducato_based_motorhomes_and_vans

 

The X290 has plenty of ‘under-the-skin’ changes, but these might be harder to spot where A-Class motorhomes are involved. The give-away would be the dashboard instrument-cluster display that’s altered slightly from the X250 pattern, but (obviously) if a buyer is unfamiliar with the appearance of an X250 display, the X290 changes won’t be noticed.

 

Manufacture of X250 ‘chassis’ in Italy will have now ceased and any Ducato/Boxer/Relay-based model featuring in a major motorhome converter’s 2015 catalogue will be on an X290 base. Some converters have been building on X290 chassis for a while and the vehicles are already on dealerships’ forecourts (a RHD Hymer and a RHD Carado - both on the X290 base - were being displayed at the recent Malvern Show).

 

Here’s a photo of a Carado T337 on the ‘old’ X250 chassis

 

http://caradomotorhomes.co.uk/

 

and, to further emphasise the differences, a Youtube video-clip of the same Carado T337 model, but the 2015 version on the X290 chassis

 

 

At present, motorhome dealers will have in stock a mixture of ’new’ (ie. unregistered) X250-based models and ‘new’ X290-based vehicles, and there’s a good chance that, as with the Carado, a 2014 model with a particular model-designator may be being offered alongside a 2015 model with the same designator.

 

This link is to a French motorhome dealership near Caen and it should be plain from the photos that the ‘new’ Ducato-based motorhomes currently stocked there are a mixture of X290s and X250s.

 

http://www.ets-jacqueline.com/vehicules-neufs/camping-car

[Derek Uzzell]

Mike88 - 2014-09-06 7:58 AM

 

...I wonder what, if any, the fine would be if the Police decided to take action? That surely would be far less than the cost of transporting the vehicle on a low loader? As long as the imported vehicle is insured surely it is worth the risk of driving the vehicle from the port to home as many others must have done.

 

There’s little value in speculating about the amount of any fine unless it can be established whether a motoring offence is being committed and, if so, what the offence actually is. If the offence is known, then it should be possible to establish the likely penalty.

 

Other points to bear in mind (assuming a motoring offence is actually being committed) are that, if the police chose to prosecute, the offender could well end up with points on his/her licence and, if that happened, it could well impact on his/her future insurance premium.

 

While it’s possible to make a finger-in-the-wind guess that (again assuming an offence is being committed) the chances of being ‘caught’ by the police are pretty low, as are the chances of being prosecuted even if caught, unless authorative and credible advice has been obtained regarding the DVLA's INFO106 statement, I can’t see how anyone can quantify whether the ‘risk’ is worth taking.

 

I can understand a private motorhome importer deciding to take the drive-from-port-to-home approach even if he/she knows full well this will be committing an offence, but surely it would be common sense for the importer to know what the offence is and its potential consequences before making that decision?

[Guest Had Enough]

Derek Uzzell - 2014-09-06 9:49 AM

 

Had Enough - 2014-09-05 8:04 PM

 

I dread to think of the cost of a low-loader from Dover to Lancashire and will be tempted to drive carefully and take a chance.

 

On another topic, my researches into headlight conversion etc. brought up the news of the new Fiat Ducato, which was announced earlier this year. What is this model's designation and when will it begin to be available on new motorhomes, assuming of course that it's not already being used?

 

Are there any significant differences between this new model and the previous one? I ask this in case I'm offered a demonstrator based on the earlier model.

 

The latest ‘facelifted’ version of the Ducato/Boxer/Relay is referred to as “X290”. The version that it supersedes (and that was marketed from mid-2006 to this year) was referred to as “X250”.

 

Changes to the frontal-treatment (particularly the headlamps and front bumper) make it easy to distinguish a non-A-class motorhome based on the X290 from one based on the outgoing X250.

 

This link shows examples of the X290 with its much shallower-depth headlamp-units and bumper-design changes.

 

http://www.fiat-professional.eu/pages/fiat-ducato/fiat-ducato-2014.php

 

While this link shows the X250’s front/headlamps/bumper

 

http://www.ledcom.co.uk/day_running_lights_curved_kit_for_fiat_ducato_based_motorhomes_and_vans

 

The X290 has plenty of ‘under-the-skin’ changes, but these might be harder to spot where A-Class motorhomes are involved. The give-away would be the dashboard instrument-cluster display that’s altered slightly from the X250 pattern, but (obviously) if a buyer is unfamiliar with the appearance of an X250 display, the X290 changes won’t be noticed.

 

Manufacture of X250 ‘chassis’ in Italy will have now ceased and any Ducato/Boxer/Relay-based model featuring in a major motorhome converter’s 2015 catalogue will be on an X290 base. Some converters have been building on X290 chassis for a while and the vehicles are already on dealerships’ forecourts (a RHD Hymer and a RHD Carado - both on the X290 base - were being displayed at the recent Malvern Show).

 

Here’s a photo of a Carado T337 on the ‘old’ X250 chassis

 

http://caradomotorhomes.co.uk/

 

and, to further emphasise the differences, a Youtube video-clip of the same Carado T337 model, but the 2015 version on the X290 chassis

 

 

At present, motorhome dealers will have in stock a mixture of ’new’ (ie. unregistered) X250-based models and ‘new’ X290-based vehicles, and there’s a good chance that, as with the Carado, a 2014 model with a particular model-designator may be being offered alongside a 2015 model with the same designator.

 

This link is to a French motorhome dealership near Caen and it should be plain from the photos that the ‘new’ Ducato-based motorhomes currently stocked there are a mixture of X290s and X250s.

 

http://www.ets-jacqueline.com/vehicules-neufs/camping-car

 

Thank you for your usual very thorough explanation. However, with luck it may now be redundant as far as I'm concerned.

 

Over the last few days I've been pondering the A-Class/Coach-built dilemma and have gradually worked my way up from a coach-built to a Hymer Exsis-i and had arrived at the B Class, one of which I really liked.

 

However, this morning, Brian Kirby (thank you Brian) mentioned a company named Edge Hill, which I had never heard of. Having looked at its website I'm very impressed. They appear to specialise in nearly new top-end Hymers and I've fallen in love with this:

 

http://edgehillmotorhomes.co.uk/motorhome/51/

 

Most of their stock is much fresher than Bundesvan, which has mainly older models.

 

This is a super 'van. 7.1 metres, which I'm comfortable with, a 3 litre Mercedes engine with rear wheel drive and auto gearbox and it comes with all the extras. But best of all for me I'm free of the tyranny of lowish payload limits. I just hope my health holds up so I can drive it for many years.

 

I'm hoping to part-exchange my Hobby and this will save me all the trouble and hassle of importing and selling my 'van privately. Edge Hill is also almost oop north so is much more convenient.

 

I've tried to phone them to make an appointment but it appears that they're at a show somewhere this weekend but on Monday I'll be ringing to have a chat.

 

This may well be the last motorhome I buy so what the hell? No pockets in a shroud as they say.

 

There are no pictures yet on Edge Hil's website so here a a few from one on sale in Germany.

 

http://goo.gl/sKamZo

 

 

 

[Derek Uzzell]

I’m pretty sure you will do this anyway, but (as the vehicle you are interested in is near-new) it would be sensible to ask Edgehill Motorhomes what the arrangements are regarding any Hymer under-warranty and mandatory servicing requirements that might be needed.

 

‘Dealer support’ was a caveat Mel Eastburn used to include in his importing guide. When I imported my Hobby in 2005 Brownhills was the sole Hobby (and Hymer) agent and they had a well-earned reputation for being uninterested (perhaps “obstructive” would be more apt) when it came to any work needed on new Hobby and Hymer motorhomes not bought through them.

 

If I lived abroad I might choose to purchase the motorhome shown here

 

http://www.fleurette.fr/fr/65-lmx-lit-milieu/camping-cars/mayflower/mayflower-65-lmx-lit-milieu

 

Fleurette is part of the Rapido group and this model’s interior layout would probably suit us better than the Rapido 640 that’s currently the only one on our shopping-list. But there’s no Fleurette agent in the UK.

 

We mentioned this disincentive when we were ’tyre kicking’ at a French Fleurette dealership and it was suggested that, as we were looking for an LHD vehicle and visited France regularly, it should not be a problem.

 

But there’s a big difference between driving, say, 100 miles to a UK Rapido dealership to have a serious conversion problem addressed or an annual watertightness check made, than driving 130 miles to Portsmouth, taking a cross-Channel ferry to France and then driving another 50 miles to the nearest Fleurette agency.

 

My Hobby had a conversion build-fault sufficiently severe that I’m certain many folk would have sought to reject the vehicle. If I had bought the motorhome through Brownhills, I would certainly not have accepted it. Fortunately I was able to DIY the problem, but it taught me a lesson.

 

 

[Guest Had Enough]

Derek Uzzell - 2014-09-06 5:51 PM

 

I’m pretty sure you will do this anyway, but (as the vehicle you are interested in is near-new) it would be sensible to ask Edgehill Motorhomes what the arrangements are regarding any Hymer under-warranty and mandatory servicing requirements that might be needed.

 

 

That will be high on my list. I wouldn't mind paying for small problems and there's a good Hymer specialist in my back yard called Peter Hambliton, who may be able to address most issues. Anything expensive though should be covered by Hymer's warranty and I'll be checking that out.

 

I once fancied a Frankia but when I discovered that the sole dealer (in those days) was in Essex or somewhere equally distant I quickly changed my mind.

 

Thanks again for the advice.

[Brian Kirby]

As the vehicle is almost new, you should inherit the balance of its six years water ingress warranty.

 

Assuming it is a LHD import, other items will be covered for two years under Hymer's general warranty and, AFAIK, Mercedes' standard European warranty.

 

The Mercedes bits should be attended to without gripes by any Mercedes commercial dealer, though if the vehicle is a LHD import you may need to check if it appears on Mercedes' UK warranty database. Any Mercedes commercial dealer should be able to tell you.

 

Any Hymer warranty work should be attended to by a UK Hymer dealer, but some may prove reluctant to the point of resistance.

 

Best to ask your nearest convenient dealer how they would react to carrying out the annual water ingress check (but check the date of first registration of the vehicle very carefully, as the validity of the warranty is only maintained by having the checks carried out by approved dealers, within specified timescales) when the time comes, and broaching the matter of any warranty work at the same time.

 

No use to Frank, but Premier Motorhomes, near Chichester in West Sussex, have already done the first water ingress check on ours, and at the same time carried out three warranty repairs plus one recall item. We were treated with the same courtesy and co-operation as I would imagine they extend to their own buyers. Excellent, efficient, work to boot! Well done Premier!

[Guest Peter James]

So after all that you are going to buy one in England >:-(

I was looking forward to hearing a Victor Meldrew guide to how not to import one from abroad (lol)

[Guest Had Enough]

Brian Kirby - 2014-09-06 9:36 PM

 

As the vehicle is almost new, you should inherit the balance of its six years water ingress warranty.

 

Assuming it is a LHD import, other items will be covered for two years under Hymer's general warranty and, AFAIK, Mercedes' standard European warranty.

 

The Mercedes bits should be attended to without gripes by any Mercedes commercial dealer, though if the vehicle is a LHD import you may need to check if it appears on Mercedes' UK warranty database. Any Mercedes commercial dealer should be able to tell you.

 

Any Hymer warranty work should be attended to by a UK Hymer dealer, but some may prove reluctant to the point of resistance.

 

Best to ask your nearest convenient dealer how they would react to carrying out the annual water ingress check (but check the date of first registration of the vehicle very carefully, as the validity of the warranty is only maintained by having the checks carried out by approved dealers, within specified timescales) when the time comes, and broaching the matter of any warranty work at the same time.

 

No use to Frank, but Premier Motorhomes, near Chichester in West Sussex, have already done the first water ingress check on ours, and at the same time carried out three warranty repairs plus one recall item. We were treated with the same courtesy and co-operation as I would imagine they extend to their own buyers. Excellent, efficient, work to boot! Well done Premier!

 

I became tired of going over to Bradford for my Hobby's annual habitation service and damp-proof check.

 

I already had a good mobile caravan technician who'd done some small jobs for me, so I phoned the service manager at Hobby UK who assured me that, as long as my man was a member of certain trade associations, that it is acceptable for him to do the damp check and stamp the book.

 

It turned out that he was well qualified being: a Mobile Caravan MCEA QS Approved Engineer, an AWS Approved Workshop Scheme Engineer and an MCEA Mobile Engineer.

 

I'm not sure which of these is the essential one. Earlier this year he did my habitation service on my drive and also did did the damp check. He took twice as long and charged half the price of the Hobby dealer.

 

He was surprised when I told him that I would wait at the dealer's for the service to be done and that it normally took two hours. He claimed that, if the job was done properly, it could not be completed so quickly. I've had no problems with the dealer by the way, who always treated me well and I pass on this man's comments without any suitable knowledge as to its accuracy.

 

When I do buy a Hymer I shall be contacting the company to ask if it will be happy for the damp check to be done by a suitably qualified third party. This would solve a major problem regarding the six-year warranty.

 

Thanks for raising this issue.

 

[StuartO]

I'm looking at importing a Hymer of a particular model from Germany and there's one I want to look at. at a dealer in northern Germany, near Hamburg. We are in France at the moment do diverting our holiday to see it is an option, but it would take at least four days of driving (there and back) and so over £200 in fuel plus inevitably some tolls, so it didn't stack up. The weather up there is good at the moment so why not visit N Germany but I really don't fancy the long haul.

 

So I looked at trainsand flights. Trains were complicated even though Chateaudun (where we are) is on a TGV line to Paris and would have taken a day or more each way. But Easyjet fly from Manchester to Hamburg so we can fly there once we get home for under £120 return for the pair of us. The dealership is only 3 km from the Airport! Even with an overnight stay it will cost under £250, so less than the fuel cost of driving there. So we fly there once we've got home. Good old Easyjet.

 

I think that I'll still use Bundesvan to bring it back to UK if we buy it though.

[tomboy99]

Hi All,

 

Purchased a hymer t 588sl at Dusseldorf show (semi Integrated fiat panel van type)

for early 2015 delivery. Main issue is with the headlamps. I will be registering the vehicle in the UK and keeping it in Spain so eu spec is perfect for me. My only issue is obtaining headlights for the day of the MOT. Anyone any idea where i could borrow a set for a day. or buy a set. A friendly dealer in the south coast who may be happy to make a few quid, on a loaned set of headlights would do. also someone gave me the name of a test centre down south, in this forum, but i have forgotten it,

 

Tom

[Guest JudgeMental]

Any Fiat commercial dealer will order and fit, should only take a few days if that. Ask the supplying dealer if he can order and fit, mine does and gave me 200€ back for mine which he takes into stock. A good dealer (used to exporting) will also change fog light (if necessary) and fit a lockwood MPH speedo dial, if you send it to them. This really saves time when you get van home as can get the VCA side of things dealt with on day one....

[tomboy99]

Thanks judge, just phoned one and they could not help without a reg number. will try another.

Rgds Tom

[Guest JudgeMental]

tomboy99 - 2014-09-09 10:26 AM

 

Thanks judge, just phoned one and they could not help without a reg number. will try another.

Rgds Tom

 

Sorry should have said: you will need the vehicle VIN number

 

nice looking van by the way :-D