cruiser Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 Hi Team......we've been camping on sites for the last eight years, but on the last few trips we've been enjoying the freedom and cost-savings of 'semi-wild camping, i.e basic safe-parking set-ups with no, or few, facilities. We'd like to do this more often, mostly for two-night max stays. Having said that, for the first time we've experienced the leisure battery fading towards in the last few hours of day two. We have the usual set-up of lights, water pump etc taking their toll, but also an inverter for the TV. We have three small Maplins solar panels which provide a trickle charge, obviously nowhere near enough to make much difference. We don't want to go to the expense of LEDs and major solar panels etc, so we were thinking of simply fitting a second leisure battery, just to give us an extra few hours on each trip. I've been on a forum over here about this idea, and a couple of people have said that we'd need to replace the 'older' battery as well....apparently it will hinder the performance of the new battery? The present battery is under five years old, and is working fine. We're loathe to dump it ......a new leisure battery will be expensive enough, let alone buying two! Advice, comments and suggestions please.....thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKen1 Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 The first step has to be change to LEDs they dont have to be expensive if you shop abroad some people say it Chinese rubbish but from my experienced ,,I changed all mine a couple of years back to LED at these prices and they are all still working ..they are great in fact, at these prices you can carry a lot of spares and still be cheaper than UK purchases. Power saving is very significant. Secondly I would get a second battery,I went for 100ah car batteries (usually £1 per Ah.+/- ) not the expensive leisure ones. And you should get at least 4 years out of them. Thirdly Roof Solar panel but as you say expensive ...... LEDs will make a significant difference to you power useage ...Im sure inverters are power hungry so change your TV to a 12 volt model and sell you old one on ebay or the like. LEDs here....... http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/emarket4un/m.html?item=320747989334&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562 Brian PS Just had a look a Leisure batteries on ebay seem great price wish I could get them at these prices here in Spain . >:-( >:-( >:-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 I disagree about LEDs. Unless you like every light on all evening the power consumed by a flourescent ceiling light and/or one or two reading lights, with other lights used only for short periods as needed is not huge so why change bilbs you don't often use? If like us this is your normal lighting use it might be worth changing one or two halogen lights for LEDs, but not all of them? As cost is an issue why not get a used battery as close in size and a/h to your existing battery as you can from a car breakers to use as a second because as long as both batteries are reasonably sound any extra battery will prolong your 12 v staying power. The purists will shudder with grief but as a short term solution it is as good a low cost option as any and one that I used several times myself in my less affluent days - unless you suddenly feel inclined to buy two new leisure batteries - but be aware that 'cheap' leisure batteries are often no more than re-badged car batteries anyway? On the other hand at five years old your original battery might well be past it's prime and simply replacing that might help? If it were mine I would remove it and bench charge it fully, then check the fully charged voltage at rest and again after two and four days and a week without further charge. Then if it is OK I too would add a second similar battery, either new or used. Using a digital voltmeter (cheap enough on Amazon), you are looking for a fully charged voltage of around 12.7 / 12.8 with very little drop (no more than .1 volt) over a week or so. Also check the discharge rate when everything is turned off as there may be something left on all night when not in use that is sapping power - tv aerial booster, tv on standby for example. If this is not for you then maybe take it to a battery specialist and get it checked, and unless you are competent and confident perhaps also seek advice on how best to wire in a second battery ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKen1 Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 Tracker - 2014-09-07 1:19 PM I disagree about LEDs. What that they are less power hungry than Halogen ...if you are going to the effort of changing a couple you may as well do them all ...not suggesting changing fluorescents...In our kitchen there are two lighting options .1 is with 2 light on or 4 lights on, so changing to LEDs was worth the cost/ effort and I can assure you the low battery warning takes longer to come on now we have all LEDs even in the outside light. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser Posted September 7, 2014 Author Share Posted September 7, 2014 OK, I'm liking this 'ordinary' battery idea.....I haven't put the present leisure battery on charge since our return, but it seems to be sitting at 12.03volts. I'll charge it tomorrow but expect it to settle back down to around the same....it had a good 2-3 hour run back from the last trip and should be fully charged from that? And if I fitted a regular battery as a back-up, would I simply just wire it in parallel, and would it give me circa 3-4 hours of a few lights and the TV? (or am I over-simplifying....a little knowledge etc).... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser Posted September 7, 2014 Author Share Posted September 7, 2014 BTW, would a regular car battery perform the same way as a leisure battery over a period of a few hours use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 cruiser - 2014-09-07 7:14 PM BTW, would a regular car battery perform the same way as a leisure battery over a period of a few hours use? In a word - YES! They are all lead acid wet cell batteries and although in theory the construction should differ between starter batteries designed for sudden high bursts of output and leisure batteries designed for prolonged but lower output in reality all that differs is the label so for your purpose I would suggest that a battery is a battery is a battery and as long as it is in good health and gets properly recharged it will work just as well at least in the short and medium term if maybe not the long term. For years I ran various vans with two various scrapyard sourced heavy duty truck starter batteries with no problems whatsoever and whilst the purists might disagree maybe you have little to lose as long as the price is right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 cruiser - 2014-09-07 6:34 PM OK, I'm liking this 'ordinary' battery idea.....I haven't put the present leisure battery on charge since our return, but it seems to be sitting at 12.03volts. I'll charge it tomorrow but expect it to settle back down to around the same....it had a good 2-3 hour run back from the last trip and should be fully charged from that? And if I fitted a regular battery as a back-up, would I simply just wire it in parallel, and would it give me circa 3-4 hours of a few lights and the TV? (or am I over-simplifying....a little knowledge etc).... 12.03 v is about 20 / 25% charged and a long way short of 12.7 / 12.8 for a fully charged battery. If it does not pick up after charging why not go for a pair of the biggest you can get that will fit from a breaker and take your voltmeter with you to check the voltages to get the best available. Chances are they will have been stored off charge for a while so look for at least 12.5 volts and aim for two that are similar in size and condition. Do you know how and what cables to use to connect them and can you get them side by side and close together? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 It would be worth checking first whether the existing leisure battery is of gel type. If it is, adding a normal, flooded, car battery in parallel won't work, because each type requires a different charging regime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 BKen1 - 2014-09-07 11:58 AM ...Secondly I would get a second battery,I went for 100ah car batteries (usually £1 per Ah.+/- ) not the expensive leisure ones. And you should get at least 4 years out of them... It should be possibe (fairly easily) to obtain ‘proper’ leisure-batteries in the UK on the basis of £1 per 1Ah (eg. a 100Ah battery for £100). Choosing pure ’starter’ batteries when similar-capacity ‘leisure’ (or at least ‘dual pupose’) batteries can be obtained for the same price would be an odd thing to do in my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Derek - given the highly dubious nature and hit and miss performance of lower cost allegedly leisure batteries I am not at all sure that it makes much difference unless one is prepared to fork out for the higher end genuine leisure batteries. Reading about the issues with leisure batteries that fill these pages over the years has, rightly or wrongly, convinced me that a decent starter battery is as good if not better than a cheap leisure battery as I see no evidence to change that view, but I remain open minded enough to be convinced! Brian - I'm only guessing, but being a ten year old van I doubt very much that the battery will be other than a wet lead acid - but it is as you say worth checking first. Again, only guessing, but I doubt the charging regime in a 10 year old van would have any options? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 BKen1 - 2014-09-07 6:30 PM Tracker - 2014-09-07 1:19 PM I disagree about LEDs. What that they are less power hungry than Halogen ...if you are going to the effort of changing a couple you may as well do them all ...not suggesting changing fluorescents...In our kitchen there are two lighting options .1 is with 2 light on or 4 lights on, so changing to LEDs was worth the cost/ effort and I can assure you the low battery warning takes longer to come on now we have all LEDs even in the outside light. Brian There is no argument that LED is less power hungry than Halogen, but unless you like all the lights on all the time I doubt that changing the one or two that you do use will make that much difference and I for one will not be changing all of ours - but I might one day change the two reading lights we use a lot! We rarely if ever use the outside light anyway so no point in changing that! What I say is that there is little point in changing bulbs you never or rarely use to save a few theoretical watts, especially when budget is an issue. But we all see things differently don't we!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser Posted September 8, 2014 Author Share Posted September 8, 2014 Just a quick update, following Tracker's line of thinking. . I remembered that I'd run the inverter for an afternoon after our return last week (just to check the voltage drop)...that would explain the 12.03 volt reading. I've been charging since then and the reading seems steady at 12.8 volts now. Hence the leisure battery seems OK. I've priced up a 110amp 'regular' lead acid battery locally today (used for tractors apparently) and it will cost 90 euro. (a good price I think....do the Sterling maths yourself!) Assuming I take Tracker's advice and fit this battery, is it simply a matter of locating it as near as possible to the original leisure battery, using suitable cable, and wiring it in parallel? I'm not without basic DIY skills, and am blessed with a little common-sense. BTW, the leisure battery is a lead acid Unipart 115 amp. Your thoughts, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Running your tv through an inverter is quite a draw on the battery ;-).............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 You didn't mention an inverter before - what wattage is it? When I wire up a second battery I use starter type cables with ring terminal ends that allow it to connect and clamp tight with the battery clamp bolts. I also change the existing pos and neg input / output wiring terminals from both on one battery to pos on one battery and neg on the other so that both batteries are charged and discharged evenly rather than one being secondary slave to the the other - and that particularly includes the inverter cables. But both batteries need to be very similar in power and condition or the weak one will quickly drag the better one down to it's level. It might not make a lot of difference but I just prefer to wire it that way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser Posted September 8, 2014 Author Share Posted September 8, 2014 I'll check out a few more battery prices. Not sure what wattage the inverter is, hard to get a good view. We also run the Sky box and sat dish rise/fall from the battery BTW. If I'm not mistaken, Evesham is near Wyre Piddle, where my pal and I camped in a riverside field as teenage adventurers. Back in the 60's.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 cruiser - 2014-09-08 8:34 PM If I'm not mistaken, Evesham is near Wyre Piddle, where my pal and I camped in a riverside field as teenage adventurers. Back in the 60's.... Almost true - Wyre Piddle is near Evesham! The riverside there is a very pleasant place to be as long as it is not under 6' of water as it so often is in winter! If you are using an inverter of any significant wattage, battery condition and a means to quickly recharge it (them) when low is very important as when batteries get too flat they lose their ability to absorb and hold a charge especially if left in a discharged state. Here is a bit of light reading for you, and if that is not enough, other similar websites are available via Google!! http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_measure_state_of_charge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser Posted September 9, 2014 Author Share Posted September 9, 2014 Just when I was about to head off to buy the 90 euro battery, I glanced at the 'Caravan Chronicles' site, where a battery expert warns that if you're fitting a second battery, they MUST be the same type, age and even manufacturer (!!!) otherwise problems may arise....... Is this a bit OTT? If I have to buy TWO new batteries, I'd be heading towards decent solar panel outlay, in which case maybe I should go down that route? I get the impression that you (Tracker) have done this sort of thing a few times without problem? BTW, the existing battery is sitting at 12.76 volts steady. That's good, yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Opinion is divided about battery compatibility and whilst I have not used odd batteries for a few years now I did so for many years on boats and in 'vans without any problems whatsoever. Sure it is better to have identical batteries but we don't live in a perfect world! Maybe I was lucky or maybe the PC brigade have got their claws so far into batteries as well that everyone - well almost everyone - is now afraid to do their own thing? If you are into the 90 Euro price range that is a long way from the 20 or 30 Euros I would expect a s/h battery to be and if you are keeping the van a long time best is generally best in the longer term. But do buy a decent brand of battery not a cheapy so called leisure battery. 12.76 volts is excellent. See how it holds up for a few days disconnected and with no charge going in. If going for solar panels I would go for the biggest I can fit on and justify the cost of, together with a good quality regulator and a Sterling battery to battery splitter so that the engine battery can be kept topped up when not in use. PS do you switch the inverter off or unplug the 12v side when not in use as they consume power all the while they are live even when not in use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmaggott Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 If you want good value batteries try this site: http://advancedbatterysupplies.co.uk IMO it's better to buy 2 moderately priced batteries with 3year warranty on them than one expensive one to use with the old battery. I agree that the TV would seem to be the culprit for battery drain, we have in the past used 2 12v TVs all evening with no problems. If you want reasonable good quality LEDs try: http://www.lightrabbit.co.uk excellent customer service and advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Ok docky, from what I have read quickly a few pointers…. Tracker is indeed right you should charge the battery and leave it for a few days or more to see if it self discharges. But this is not the whole story as it gives no indication of available capacity remaining if it has aged over time. To test its capacity you will need to apply a load to it and work out the current drawn and see how long it takes to discharge to say 12.2 volts. This is then 50% discharged. The problem is new batteries, especially modern ones can have a slightly higher voltage, and old ones tend to show a lower voltage so its only a very rough guide. Lets say you rig up a 60 watt car headlamp bulb then this is a 5 amps drain. So a 100 Ah at 50% discharge is 50Ah so approx 10 hours. You could go for 12.45 volts instead and thit is 25% discharged (75% remaining in battery) so would be 5 hours. You need to measure the battery voltage with the load removed. However it should also be tested under load to get a full picture. The voltage drop undersmall loads depends on the battery type, its age and state of charge and is a little complicated, however you should not see a massive difference in voltage if the battery is in good condition. As your battery is 5 years old, and you did measure 12.03 I am going to hazard a guess and say is well down on capacity and is self draining too fast. Also leaving below 12.4 volts it is going to sulphate and deterorate anyway. If it is a cheap budget leisure battery it is probably just a starter battery and again very likely to be duff at 5 years old. Now if it was in good condition you could parallel it up with a similar battery despite what the theorists say. It is only if it has high self discharge it will bring down the new battery, but there are problems when it ages a bit more and fails. It can drain your new battery fast and damage it as it is then left discharged and sulphates. You can also get problems charging an old battery which is failing with a new battery in parallel. Hence a good reason why it is not a good idea. Another factor is it may be low on electrolyte and need topping up. It quite possible topping it up if very low on water allows a good recovery of capacity. So suggestions what to do. Leisure batteries are expensive. You could go for a Banner Leisure but they are not entirely fit and forget and need topping up and have a higher self drain compared to starter batteries...but they are good if looked after but expensive. For many people who do not cycle it a lot and do not use it to its extreme wil never have to top up, people who leave in charge a lot or deep cycle will have to add water periodically. A pain if fitted under a seat. Next option is budget leisure batteries. Well you really are wasting your money on them unless they are just for what I call coffee halts or infrequent camping but there is another option. Banner is really the only serious battery available now for those wanting a really good leisure battery without going for AGM or Gel. Varta's latest offerings in Leisure batteries are dual purpose starter and deep cycle. ( They used to make what is known as a semi traction battery but they have all been replace now with AGM batteries which are expensive). Also part of the reason is so may Motorhomes and boats using high power inverters for ‘silly’ things such as microwaves and hair driers), and caravan movers on caravans. Now the Banner is good for 400 cycles the budget leisure 100 to 150 deep cycles in comparison and indeed some a lot less, the Varta offering comes in at 200 cycles and is a good option. It has low water consumption, fast recharge, and low self discharge. It should be available at a much cheaper price than the Banner but maybe by not much. Now the next option, a starter battery. Yes you can use a starter but if you want best value you need a good one and what they call a silver battery suitable for some cycling. Many cars now use a lot of power when parked up and also for stop start application the battery has to cope with cycling. Hence the new range of Silver starter batteries and Varta make a really good one. It is the Varta Silver and also marketed as the Bosch S5. Some people believe the Varta silver flooded is the same as their Flooded leisure battery. As far as I can see the leisure battery is slightly heavier but this may be a marketing ploy to round the figures up to the nearest half kilogram to hide the fact it is the same...who knows and maybe it does have more lead in it, I don't know and others don’t really either. But there no doubt the varta silver starter can be used as a leisure battery successfully and many do and works out about 10 to £15 cheaper . Again cycle life should be around 200 cycles, Now to put this in comparison a non silver cheap standard starter battery will return about 50 cycles. ( do not look at these cycle numbers as to what you will actually get in practice, they are a figure for comparison .. you may get a lot less and you may actually get a lot more . The Varta Silver starter is regarded as far superior to any of the Dual starter budget brand leisure batteries available for leisure use. So at least this helps you in your choice. Banner for high cycling and long life, Varta Leisure if you do not require the same high cycling spec and the Varta/Bosch silver starter if you are looking at budget prices. If it is only for coffee stops and you use hook up all the time then yes the budget brands are ideal and will save you more money. I suggest fitting a new battery, you need one anyway whether you are going to parallel up with old one or not. Now, replace the old battery and you can now test the new battery on its own and see if it meets your needs. Meanwhile you can test the old one off the vehicle. I am going to assume old one is duff, and new one just meets your needs for a couple of nights. You can now decide if you need an extra battery or not. You have the option over the next year sometime to buy a second Varta starter and parallel them up which will greatly extend their life. Hopefully given you some food for thought and have thrown this post together very quickly so hopefully makes some sense. Just remember every application is different and what suits one Motorhome user many not be relevant to another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser Posted September 10, 2014 Author Share Posted September 10, 2014 Wow! Thanks for that comprehensive and informative reply. I should point out that the 12.03 reading I mentioned earlier was showing AFTER the inverter and tv was switched on for four hours. We had returned from our trip and I decided to test the battery then. I have trickle-charged since and the battery is showing 12.74v steadily over the last few days. Without wishing to complicate matters, I'm now considering going down the solar panel route! I'm a bit shaky about gambling a new battery, and two batteries will cost me 180 euro here. Now add the hassle of finding a space in the storage locker for a second battery, and the extra wiring etc, It seems that cable choice is also a vital factor also....e.g: I have a 'heavy' brown cable coming from the positive and three 'thinner' black cales from the earth. (that how it was when I bought the van btw)....would I literally have to duplicate that to link a second battery? So, if I was to fit a solar panel, what sort of wattage should I be looking for (bearing in mind the previously mentioned requirements) and is it simply a matter of fitting the panel on the roof and plugging it in (to the already-fitted regulator that prevents over-charging from the Maplins solar panel I use to trickle charge) ? And finally, would the panel do the same, or an even better job as a two linked batteries? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 It seems as if your battery is fine so if you need extra battery power the logical step is a second battery. Solar panels are good in sunny countries - how sunny is Skibereen - it was hissing with rain on the only two times I've been there! If you buy a say 80 watt solar panel and regulator, apart from the issues if fitting it correctly you will be lucky to get 40 watts out of it most of the time as the chances are it will not be facing the right way or trees will obscure it. 40 watts = just over 3 amps and if you can guarantee that every day for 6 hours and as long as you use less than 20 amp hours every 24 hours your single battery will do just fine. On the other hand and extra battery will cost a fraction of a solar panel installation and a 90 ah battery will have a usable capacity of around say 40 amp hours before losing it's charge and so at a daily rate of say 20 ah it will add two days to your off mains ability. Connecting it. I would link both batteries together pos to pos and neg to neg with heavy cable (I use starter leads) as close together as is practicable. Then remove either the pos or neg from the existing battery and connect the one or the other - which ever is easiest to the second battery. Not strictly needed but it spreads the load and charge evenly between the two and is a matter of personal choice. The purists would insist on at least a 30 amp, preferably 50 amp fuse between the two batteries but it is desirable. You might also need a hole in the floor for the excess hydrogen gas tube to exit - or link it to the original?. Job done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 The battery voltage of 12.02V is basically flat. It is 75% discharged which is more than you should take it, but putting this aside just now lets work out what your drain was likely to be over four hours. Invertor and TV. Lets assume 50 watts for the TV, that is probably much higher than it is. Did you mention a sat box, so say 30 watts (again a bit high) for it so total 80 watts and add on say a 10 Watt light. You have approx 90 watts and allowing for invertor will call it 100 watts which from P=VI is 8.3 amps for 4 hours which equals 33 Ah. Battery is at 75% discharged level so 33/75 x 100 =44Ah capacity available from your battery. It will start to fail quickly if you draw more than 50% which is 22Ah available to maximise rest of the battery life. Normally a battery is declared end of specified life at 80% of original capacity but in reality people use for a lot longer ...because they can. However water consumption starts to increase and self drain increases. There is no way I would put a new battery in paralled up to one down more than 50% in capacity. If it is below 80% of rated capacity then do not parallel up a new one is the guideline I would use. Now even allowing for big errors in my estimation your battery is old and on the way out. It needs to retire to a graceful life. Indeed, but you can do a few checks. Are the ends of the battery swelling. If you cannot press the ends of the battey in slightly and deform them then the plates are swollen and touching the sides of the cell. Time to consider discarding, if swollen then discard. Remove the filler caps, or if sealed it is often possible to remove the one piece cover, check the insides of the caps. Are they dark Grey or Brown with heavy deposits. If so then battery is aging a lot. Dark brown results from overcharging, and dark grey the battery is sulphating badly. Just a light grey or no deposit does not always mean the battery is good but dark deposits do indicate an issue. Is the electrolyte level ok? If it is very low then the tops of the plates oxidise which is not good. Are there bits flooding in the acid. It should be clear and bright. Look at the top of the plates, are they light to mid grey and neat. Very dark grey or scaling or all mangled up and crinkled shows swelling of the plates and aging of the battery. Has one cell got a lot less acid in it compared to the others. If one cell is much lower than others it shows that cell is beginning to fail. In a car battery under the bonnet often thr front end cell is slightly lower because it gets hotter due to the engine heat and hot air blasting over it so not always a sign the cell is failing but with our leissure batteries a fairly good indication. Forgotten where I have got to as have had to answer the phone... ermm... Ah yes. So basically your battery sounds like it is duff based on only 4 hours use. So if you think I may be wrong , recheck figures for power drawn by TV and so on and work out what ampere hours you think you have used. For a 100Ah battery down to 12 .1 volts you are looking at 75Ah for a good battery. This is what I am saying, you need a new battery anyway so buy one. Fit it on its own and see how it performs. Then take it from there. If not enough capacity down to 12.3 volts then add a second battery, If then you still have issues think about solar panels. As to cabling in locker, your only issue is space for the extra battery. You just link the 2 together. Now if you think space for two batteries is an issue you may want to consider a much larger single battery such as 120 or 130 Ah. Suppliers. Supply of batteries is fairly competitive and ther are some good prices to be had from many online mail order vendors. Varta is cheaper than Bosch batteries generally but worth searching for both to compare prices . Suppliers I have found which are competitive are the likes of Tayna, Just Car Batteries (JCB), Advanced Batteries, but not sure of costs to Eire for delivery. Google is your friend here and so is Ebay and do not forget Amazon. Do not be swayed into buying rebranded imports unless you really want cheap batteries bit you can get good batteries for very little more. Varta, Exide, Banner all make very good batteries and being made in Europe you do not have the overheads of transport costs from the far East. But you do have to weigh up how much use you are going to give the battery. If you only camp a few nights a year why not go for a really cheap budget. However if you camp 100 nights a yeat then you should be looking at much better batteries and move up to Banner, AGM or Gel and/or fit solar panels. There you go I have now nicely confused everyone as always. Sorry for waffling on, I am on a roll this afternoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser Posted September 10, 2014 Author Share Posted September 10, 2014 OK. enough dithering. Decision made, a second battery. Down to buy it this afternoon, watch this space! And thanks to all contributors for their time and advice. And Travker.....where did you stay near Skibb? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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