Brian Kirby Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Many will know, but a few may not............... :-D If your motorhome has an Al-Ko chassis (Lenny and Martyn, pay attention please! :-)), the Al-KO rear axle/s have their own maintenance schedule. There should be (have been) an Al-Ko booklet with your van that explains the maintenance requirement, but it seems it is not that widely understood. However, maintenance in accordance with the schedule is a pre-requisite for maintaining the Al-Ko warranty. The axle is likely to have two grease nipples, one each end, adjacent to the chassis members, on the underside of the axle. These must be greased every 20,000km, OR ANNUALLY - WHICHEVER COMES FIRST. Few will do 20,000km (12,500 miles) a year, so the annual requirement will apply for most owners. This creates something of a bind, as the current Fiat servicing schedules are every two years. So, in addition, one annual axle service is required just for two grease nipples! There is a specific requirement for the axle to be in a no-load condition (i.e. jacked up, or on a vehicle lift) when being greased. The specified grease is Shell Retinax LX2 (since superceded by Shell Gadus S3 V220C 2). This is primarily a high pressure, water resistant grease, not readily available in small quantities - so not DIY friendly. Further, the maintenance schedule implies that a "Specialist Workshop" should do the work, so again not DIY friendly. I shall contact Al-Ko Monday (missed them today, they knock-off at 13:00 Fridays!) on alternative greases, because specifying by maker rather then by type is unhelpful, and I suspect few motorhome service centres that have been greasing these points to date will have used the specified stuff. I will also raise with them the implied requirement for an Al-Ko "Specialist Workshop" to do this work, as no regular base vehicle service centres (i.e. Fiat, Peugeot etc) are on Al-Ko's list, many being only caravan dealerships unequipped to handle motorhomes. One Al-Ko listed motorhome specialist workshop I did contact was unaware that the axle should be unladen when being greased, and did not know of the specified grease. Finally, don't assume that a regular service for the base vehicle, whoever does it, will necessarily include greasing (with whatever!) these nipples. Certainly Fiat service centres are very unlikely to do so, unless it is specifically requested, because the standard Ducato service schedule doesn't call for rear axle greasing and because they won't, as a rule, touch anything that is not Fiat. I assume much the same would be also true for Peugeot/Citroen versions. I shall also ask Al-Ko the duration of warranty as, although the booklet is clear enough on the pre-requisites for maintaining it, it is oddly silent on this point. I'll post again with whatever information I can glean. Hope I haven't spoilt anyone's evening! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 ....the questions you raise have been asked of Al-Ko a good number of times. Alan Sanders, the Al-Ko service manager, has generally responded. If you Google on "Alan Sanders" and grease you will get a good few hits on various forums. Since the alternative recommended greases disappear from the market over time, it is still worthwhile asking again and hopefully posting the response here. For info, previous questioning has elicited the response that it is acceptable to raise in succession individual back wheels until they are off the ground, and grease each side in that state. A hand-powered grease gun can be used (in fact, may be preferred) and only a few strokes of the gun should be used (the axle will needlessly accept a lot of grease, and eventually this will force its way past the inner seal!). Alternative greases are allowed, but it would be best to get a recommendation from Al-Ko. In the past, I used Castrol LMX, which is now no longer available on the UK market (though I still have some). In essence a similar high quality, high melting-point lithium grease is likely to be acceptable, but for warranty purposes explicit Al-Ko endorsement would be best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 WE=hy not get it done when you get the annual damp check done? That's my plan, plan B is get Lancing Commercials do do it, thinking about it, that might become plan A as they one only 1½ miles from home. There have been quite a few reports of them were failing a few years ago due to lack of greasing and when they do go wrong, they are not repairable and you have to cough up a couple of grand for a new axle. A L-Ko did change to a non maintenance axle now they have gone back to having to grease them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 lennyhb - 2014-10-17 6:56 PM WE=hy not get it done when you get the annual damp check done? That's my plan, plan B is get Lancing Commercials do do it, thinking about it, that might become plan A as they one only 1½ miles from home. There have been quite a few reports of them were failing a few years ago due to lack of greasing and when they do go wrong, they are not repairable and you have to cough up a couple of grand for a new axle. A L-Ko did change to a non maintenance axle now they have gone back to having to grease them. Had the damp check a while back, but had mistakenly thought the rear axle could be done along with the van (Fiat) service. Having just got back from autumn trip, picked up and re-read the AlKo handbook, and realised it needed greasing at one year - thought I'd nip out and grease it myself, and then read the additional provisios. So, just thought I'd raise the warning in case anyone else may have missed the one year stipulation. I was aware the axle needed greasing, just not that it was out of step with other service requirements. There is still the bit about specialist workshops, though, so I want to clarify the validity of who, actually, can do the work and maintain the warranty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 On my annual list of service items prompted by a series of postings showing how to change torsion rods, so it is not always necessarily a new axle. Prevention better than cure :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 Robinhood - 2014-10-17 6:39 PM ....the questions you raise have been asked of Al-Ko a good number of times. Alan Sanders, the Al-Ko service manager, has generally responded. If you Google on "Alan Sanders" and grease you will get a good few hits on various forums.................... Thanks Robin, I'll do just that, and post what I learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Thankyou Brian for raising this. I will follow this with interest. I have no knowledge of any literature from al ko on this. One things for sure. If I do need to be doing something I've not been made aware of at point of sale then watch this space. Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Just a thought. Not quite a bind as first thought as the Peugeot warranty requires an oil change at 12 months if the vehicle had covered 6000 miles or less. Assuming my dealer, my Nephew, is allowed to carry out the work then no dramas. Still quality info though and thank you again Brian. Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 LordThornber - 2014-10-17 8:07 PM If I do need to be doing something I've not been made aware of at point of sale did you not get an alko handbook? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 ...the AL-Ko handbook, such as it is, can be downloaded from: http://www.al-ko.co.uk/edit/files/handbooks/amc-handbook.pdf The requirement for annual maintenance (greasing) is set out on page 1, and further clarified on page 19. It really isn't very difficult to do, but it would be useful to obtain the latest recommendation on (UK-available) grease, and some guidance on whether "self-service" fulfils the warranty conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Peter James - 2014-10-17 8:17 PM LordThornber - 2014-10-17 8:07 PM If I do need to be doing something I've not been made aware of at point of sale did you not get an alko handbook? No, and I alluded to this in my initial response. Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 I take it you didn't get the Al-Ko pen either then? (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Got buggerall Lenny :D The handover was garbage, so I'm not in the least bit surprised about this Al ko revelation. Anyway I'm emailing Al ko after writing this twaddle to see how the matter can be boxed off. I've read the pdf and the process is simple enough, the obvious question to be answered though is self maintenance a warranty qualification. As someone has helpfully pointed out. I'll keep us posted 8-) Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 http://www.al-ko.co.uk/pages_faqs/axles-2.html Just for starters, from al ko's web page, motorhome faq's. Note the word, recommended. Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Sorry for hogging the thread but I've just been reading thr fine print of al ko's terms and conditions. I can only see 12 months warranty, obviously when they respond to mine and Brian's contact we'll learn more but at first glance if there's nothing more than a standard 12 months guarantee then there's little to sweat about. I'd still get the grease done obviously, it's a no brainer. Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe90 Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Worth noting that in my experience if having tyres fitted that the average tyre fitter will not know about the requirement to only use a jack on the specified points, Alko state that damage may result if they don't, a rubber pad is also required, I carry my own, and generally feel like a pain in the butt telling them to use it, and why one isn't supplied is a mystery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 As I understand it, car manufacturers gave up putting grease nipples on cars when they found that few garages bothered to find and lubricate them. I would lubricate them, but I think its taking it a bit far to worry about what type of grease for a suspension joint that is not subject to high temperatures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 LordThornber - 2014-10-18 8:02 AM The handover was garbage, Same here, they hadn't even got the drivers handbook for my Citroen Maxi Van, just a sales pitch for every kind of warranty *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Some years ago when Lunar were building coachbuilt motorhomes we road tested a 620 on an Alko chassis, we drove it for quite a few miles on differing road surfaces but weren't impressed with the ride. It was like driving on steel rims. The build quality was top draw. We then spotted another 620 at another dealers so I looked underneath and it was built on a Fiat chassis. We had a road test drive which was very smooth so we bought it. When we got it home I wanted to fit a Safe so I looked for a place under a bunk and was horrified to see the drive, there was a large hole with bare wires where the tyres had rubbed the floor away. On checking the other side it was the same. The dealer was very surprised to see me back so soon. I wanted to know who the guy was that had done the pre delivery inspection but he wouldn't tell me who it was. When he saw the problem he was gob smacked. We went into the office and he rang Lunar straight away who then said that they wanted the motorhome back on the production line to put it right. They gave me a car to use and four days later asked me to go back and pick it up. The body had been built on the Fiat chassis which was narrower that the Alko so the floor plan was to wide resulting in the rubbing away of both wheel arch areas. Some numpty would have got an ear bashing for such a stupid mistake. It ended up having new wheel arches fitted along with a new wiring harness. You would have thought that it should have been spotted on the production line at the very beginning of the build. Some owners of Alko chassis have air assisted suspension fitted, one of my previous motorhomes had it fitted but no matter what pressure was used or tyre pressures tried there wasn't any improvement of ride smoothness. Maybe if the air suspension was 100% and not just to assist the standard suspension as is on most heavy commercial vehicles then the ride quality would be far better. As long as there are torsion bushes fitted they wont be able to be altered. The only reason to fit added air suspension would be for carrying extra weight on the rear end such as scooters or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 rolandrat - 2014-10-18 10:53 AM Some years ago when Lunar were building coachbuilt motorhomes we road tested a 620 on an Alko chassis, we drove it for quite a few miles on differing road surfaces but weren't impressed with the ride. It was like driving on steel rims. The build quality was top draw. We then spotted another 620 at another dealers so I looked underneath and it was built on a Fiat chassis. We had a road test drive which was very smooth so we bought it. When we got it home I wanted to fit a Safe so I looked for a place under a bunk and was horrified to see the drive, there was a large hole with bare wires where the tyres had rubbed the floor away. On checking the other side it was the same. The dealer was very surprised to see me back so soon. I wanted to know who the guy was that had done the pre delivery inspection but he wouldn't tell me who it was. When he saw the problem he was gob smacked. We went into the office and he rang Lunar straight away who then said that they wanted the motorhome back on the production line to put it right. They gave me a car to use and four days later asked me to go back and pick it up. The body had been built on the Fiat chassis which was narrower that the Alko so the floor plan was to wide resulting in the rubbing away of both wheel arch areas. Some numpty would have got an ear bashing for such a stupid mistake. It ended up having new wheel arches fitted along with a new wiring harness. You would have thought that it should have been spotted on the production line at the very beginning of the build. Some owners of Alko chassis have air assisted suspension fitted, one of my previous motorhomes had it fitted but no matter what pressure was used or tyre pressures tried there wasn't any improvement of ride smoothness. Maybe if the air suspension was 100% and not just to assist the standard suspension as is on most heavy commercial vehicles then the ride quality would be far better. As long as there are torsion bushes fitted they wont be able to be altered. The only reason to fit added air suspension would be for carrying extra weight on the rear end such as scooters or whatever. Sounds like typical British workmanship that's why I buy German. :D As for the ride quality our last van was on the Fiat Camping Car chassis and the ride was hard but very good, current van has an Al-Ko chassis the ride ride quality is in a different world far superior to the Fiat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Peter James - 2014-10-18 10:43 AM As I understand it, car manufacturers gave up putting grease nipples on cars when they found that few garages bothered to find and lubricate them. I would lubricate them, but I think its taking it a bit far to worry about what type of grease for a suspension joint that is not subject to high temperatures. I would tend to agree with you, but as the axles are non repairable and cost a couple of grand to replace I don't think it's worth the risk for tenners worth of grease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Interesting post Thanks rolandrat - 2014-10-18 10:53 AM You would have thought that it should have been spotted on the production line at the very beginning of the build. . I guess they didn't realise how much the suspension travels when you go over uneven ground with a long wheelbase rigid bodied van - which can't flex to absorb the twisting motion like a flat body does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 lennyhb - 2014-10-18 12:34 PM Peter James - 2014-10-18 10:43 AM As I understand it, car manufacturers gave up putting grease nipples on cars when they found that few garages bothered to find and lubricate them. I would lubricate them, but I think its taking it a bit far to worry about what type of grease for a suspension joint that is not subject to high temperatures. I would tend to agree with you, but as the axles are non repairable and cost a couple of grand to replace I don't think it's worth the risk for tenners worth of grease. Well I can see no reason for a special grease, but its worth getting if it leaves your mind free to worry about something else instead ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 If carrying extra weight is a necessity it might be worth considering a pair of Munro Load Levers to replace the standard fitted shock absorbers. I've used them in the passed and they controlled the rear end brilliantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Al-Ko do their own load leveler for the AMC chassis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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