Brian Kirby Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Impeccable logic, Tom. :-D It is a weight thing, though only in the sense that by making a van with a 100 litre (or more) tank, and then encouraging folk to drive around with only 20 litres on board, they are able to claim an extra 80kg of payload (80 litres @ 1kg per litre), which makes the van look more attractive. This ruse seems to have caught on widely among German manufacturers and, IMO, is pure smoke and mirrors. Apart from anything else, the idea that you arrive somewhere, fill the tank, and then dump down to 20 ltres on departure, makes a complete mockery of all those exhortations you see around Europe to save water. So, make sure you read all the fine print and do the arithmetic before buying! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 I thought that postal vans were steered from the wrong side because it makes it easier fro them to pop the mail into those roadside mailboxes they have in America but the idea of doing so you can be closer to a steep drop off has a lot more "edge" to it.. :-D The logic of simply driving a LHD motorhome in reverse when in UK is impeccable. Of course you would have to reverse out into the middle of the carriageway at junctions before you could see anything coming, but it would at least help to overcome the blind spot problem when you got there. Since motorhomes are always wider than cars, or at least A Class motorhomes are, why not put the steering wheel in the middle to hedge your bets? You woud then have room for two co-pilots, also assisting with the blid spot problem. You wouldnlt have to listen to them at other times but if their seats were set back a bit they would have line of sight to entertain each other and leave you in peace anyway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 747 - 2014-10-24 9:49 AM Had Enough - 2014-10-19 11:55 AM 'snipped' There is a big problem with having the steering wheel on the wrong side and it's a dangerous one. If when in Europe you approach a road junction where the road you're joining comes in from the left at an acute angle it is impossible to see what's coming from the left if your motorhome is RHD. The opposite happens in the UK if you have a LHD 'van. A Red Herring I am afraid. I used my first (smallish) RHD coachbuilt mostly solo as I worked on Construction Sites around the UK. I had exactly the same problem with angled junctions. No doubt a LHD would have given me an equal problem at other junctions. Anyway, I will get out of the way to allow the childish ones to continue with their spats. :D It's far from a red herring. I have never experienced a problem in the UK with my RHD vehicle because at an angled junction you're on the correct side of the cab to get the best view. If in Europe you drive a LHD vehicle then you shouldn't have the problem at acute angles for the same reason. The first time I went solo in France I made the mistake of not approaching the junction square on and I couldn't see what was coming on my left. On a road with HGVs thundering along I had no choice but to reverse and reposition. Fortunately there was no one behind me. Of course if you buy a LHD vehicle and use it in the UK you experience the same problem in reverse so to speak. This is why I said this at the end of my post: 'If you have the choice, you should decide on where the steering wheel should be on the basis of where you do the most driving.' I do about 10-12k a year and two thirds to three quarters of that is in Europe. I have the choice to buy LHD or RHD. Common sense tells me that I should buy LHD so that if I'm ever driving solo the risk is minimised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe90 Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Had Enough - 2014-10-24 9:41 PM 747 - 2014-10-24 9:49 AM Had Enough - 2014-10-19 11:55 AM 'snipped' There is a big problem with having the steering wheel on the wrong side and it's a dangerous one. If when in Europe you approach a road junction where the road you're joining comes in from the left at an acute angle it is impossible to see what's coming from the left if your motorhome is RHD. The opposite happens in the UK if you have a LHD 'van. A Red Herring I am afraid. I used my first (smallish) RHD coachbuilt mostly solo as I worked on Construction Sites around the UK. I had exactly the same problem with angled junctions. No doubt a LHD would have given me an equal problem at other junctions. Anyway, I will get out of the way to allow the childish ones to continue with their spats. :D It's far from a red herring. I have never experienced a problem in the UK with my RHD vehicle because at an angled junction you're on the correct side of the cab to get the best view. . What a load of nonsense, as an ex HGV, and Bus driver, there are many occasions on approaching an angled junction in the UK, driving a RHD vehicle presents difficulties, even in a small car based van with no side windows, it depends on which way the angle is as it meets the road you wish to turn on to. The only caveat being that in coaches and buses you have the ability to make use of the loading platform doors windows, or side windows, even then it's a case of gently does it with 70 odd passengers on board, an arctic presented even more of challenge, a matter of getting your tractor unit as far as was possible square on to the junction, even if it involves "nicking" a bit of the other side of the road to enable a better view, though if the acute angle on the junction was "against" you for want of a better description, because of your length only a turn in one direction may be possible, then you're looking for somewhere to turn round, or re-route, been there , done it, ( over many years ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Had Enough - 2014-10-24 9:41 PM It's far from a red herring. I have never experienced a problem in the UK with my RHD vehicle because at an angled junction you're on the correct side of the cab to get the best view. Clearly you haven't encountered an oblique junction Frank ;-) ..............As I have 134k miles on the milometer of my works van, I guess I have more experience than you :D .............and I can assure you there are numerous junctions where a RHD van is at a disadvantage compared to a LHD :-| ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Yes Frank, what is your angle on this problem. Or are you just being obtuse*. There are 2 types of angles ....... well actually there are 360 angles if you want to go full circle and end up where you started. ;-) Listen to pelmetman, he is not as stupid as he looks ..... allegedly. * There is a joke in there. Would someone explain it to Frank please. Thanks. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 747 - 2014-10-24 10:46 PM Listen to pelmetman, he is not as stupid as he looks ..... allegedly. D You've obviously not read his views on gassing then? 'A 2007 study by the Insurance Corporation of British Columbia found that drivers of RHD vehicles used here in B.C. are more than 40% more likely to be involved in a crash than those using "normal" left hand drive (LHD) vehicles. The risk appears to extend for the long term rather than being reduced by the driver becoming more familiar with using a right hand drive vehicle in a left hand drive environment. Similar studies conducted in Britain where LHD vehicles regularly mix with RHD vehicles from the continent showed the same indications. Collisions appeared to be most common in turning, passing and lane changing situations. It is surmised that the increased risk of collision is a consequence of the reduced direct field of view for drivers to the side and rear that is more easily viewed by the majority. Fortunately, the crash protection properties of RHD vehicles is the same as their LHD counterparts.' Oh well, there's only a forty percent greater chance of having an accident. Hardly worth bothering about then? That's a joke. Will somebody please explain it to 747? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe90 Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Had Enough - 2014-10-24 11:40 PM 747 - 2014-10-24 10:46 PM Listen to pelmetman, he is not as stupid as he looks ..... allegedly. D You've obviously not read his views on gassing then? 'A 2007 study by the Insurance Corporation of British Columbia found that drivers of RHD vehicles used here in B.C. are more than 40% more likely to be involved in a crash than those using "normal" left hand drive (LHD) vehicles. The risk appears to extend for the long term rather than being reduced by the driver becoming more familiar with using a right hand drive vehicle in a left hand drive environment. Similar studies conducted in Britain where LHD vehicles regularly mix with RHD vehicles from the continent showed the same indications. Collisions appeared to be most common in turning, passing and lane changing situations. It is surmised that the increased risk of collision is a consequence of the reduced direct field of view for drivers to the side and rear that is more easily viewed by the majority. Fortunately, the crash protection properties of RHD vehicles is the same as their LHD counterparts.' Oh well, there's only a forty percent greater chance of having an accident. Hardly worth bothering about then? That's a joke. Will somebody please explain it to 747? "A 2007 study by the Insurance Corporation of British Columbia" Wow, that must have took some Googling, Presumably whilst you were sat at an angled junction on the correct side of the cab getting the best view, which side was that exactly >:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Had Enough - 2014-10-24 11:40 PM 747 - 2014-10-24 10:46 PM Listen to pelmetman, he is not as stupid as he looks ..... allegedly. D You've obviously not read his views on gassing then? 'A 2007 study by the Insurance Corporation of British Columbia found that drivers of RHD vehicles used here in B.C. are more than 40% more likely to be involved in a crash than those using "normal" left hand drive (LHD) vehicles. The risk appears to extend for the long term rather than being reduced by the driver becoming more familiar with using a right hand drive vehicle in a left hand drive environment. Similar studies conducted in Britain where LHD vehicles regularly mix with RHD vehicles from the continent showed the same indications. Collisions appeared to be most common in turning, passing and lane changing situations. It is surmised that the increased risk of collision is a consequence of the reduced direct field of view for drivers to the side and rear that is more easily viewed by the majority. Fortunately, the crash protection properties of RHD vehicles is the same as their LHD counterparts.' Oh well, there's only a forty percent greater chance of having an accident. Hardly worth bothering about then? That's a joke. Will somebody please explain it to 747? What's accident percentages got to do with my post? :-S ...............I was just pointing out that even a RHD van in the UK can still be at a disadvantage an some junctions due to the angle of approach ;-) ........... I also have experience of crashing my bus into a LHD Italian camper that pulled out in front of me *-) ........He didn't see my bus because of the angle he was at :-| ............. Reckon I might have a window fitted in the works van sliding door, as it'll be a useful safety feature :D ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 The situation would be greatly improved if all junctions were converted to right angles. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 pelmetman - 2014-10-25 8:37 AM ....Reckon I might have a window fitted in the works van sliding door, as it'll be a useful safety feature :D ...... Sensible idea but doesn't installing any window behid the driver's seat back still make your vehice liable to "car tax"? I might be years out of date but certainly that used to be the case. It was quite a big financial hit too, as I recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 StuartO - 2014-10-25 9:15 AM pelmetman - 2014-10-25 8:37 AM ....Reckon I might have a window fitted in the works van sliding door, as it'll be a useful safety feature :D ...... Sensible idea but doesn't installing any window behid the driver's seat back still make your vehice liable to "car tax"? I might be years out of date but certainly that used to be the case. It was quite a big financial hit too, as I recall. About 30 years out of date. maybe even more . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 lennyhb - 2014-10-25 10:08 AM StuartO - 2014-10-25 9:15 AM pelmetman - 2014-10-25 8:37 AM ....Reckon I might have a window fitted in the works van sliding door, as it'll be a useful safety feature :D ...... Sensible idea but doesn't installing any window behid the driver's seat back still make your vehice liable to "car tax"? I might be years out of date but certainly that used to be the case. It was quite a big financial hit too, as I recall. About 30 years out of date. maybe even more . My camper and works van are both pre 2001 so the tax is £230 a year............. when I stick a 3 litre V6 in the works van it'll remain the same B-) ...............unlike a new car which is nearer 300 quid 8-) ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe90 Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 pelmetman - 2014-10-25 10:48 AM lennyhb - 2014-10-25 10:08 AM StuartO - 2014-10-25 9:15 AM pelmetman - 2014-10-25 8:37 AM ....Reckon I might have a window fitted in the works van sliding door, as it'll be a useful safety feature :D ...... Sensible idea but doesn't installing any window behid the driver's seat back still make your vehice liable to "car tax"? I might be years out of date but certainly that used to be the case. It was quite a big financial hit too, as I recall. About 30 years out of date. maybe even more . My camper and works van are both pre 2001 so the tax is £230 a year............. when I stick a 3 litre V6 in the works van it'll remain the same B-) ...............unlike a new car which is nearer 300 quid 8-) ........... You need to get out more, many cars are tax free, or 30 quid a year................................ probably the reason all our roads are full of pot holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Joe90 - 2014-10-25 10:56 AM pelmetman - 2014-10-25 10:48 AM lennyhb - 2014-10-25 10:08 AM StuartO - 2014-10-25 9:15 AM pelmetman - 2014-10-25 8:37 AM ....Reckon I might have a window fitted in the works van sliding door, as it'll be a useful safety feature :D ...... Sensible idea but doesn't installing any window behid the driver's seat back still make your vehice liable to "car tax"? I might be years out of date but certainly that used to be the case. It was quite a big financial hit too, as I recall. About 30 years out of date. maybe even more . My camper and works van are both pre 2001 so the tax is £230 a year............. when I stick a 3 litre V6 in the works van it'll remain the same B-) ...............unlike a new car which is nearer 300 quid 8-) ........... You need to get out more, many cars are tax free, or 30 quid a year................................ probably the reason all our roads are full of pot holes. Have you tried getting 50' of pelmets into a car? 8-)............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Vehicles don't cause accidents, drivers do. Any insurance data that does not take into account types of vehicle involved and nationalities, experience and proven degree of 'fault' of the drivers in these 'wrong side' driver accidents seems to me to be something of another red herring. I've driven plenty of both RHD and LHD many miles abroad and at home and I still find that driving on the 'wrong' side of the road abroads more likely to cause a temporary lapse regardless of RHD or LHD than driving on the 'correct' side of the road at home. It's drivers that cause accidents not vehicles and the lofty viewpoint, and more importantly slower speeds, of a van is in my view much safer than a 'wrong sided' car driving position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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