elamessa Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Whilst travelling back from a couple of days away. My 2007 fiat x250 2.3 developed a bizarre fault. Going along at 90kph I felt the engine judder, like fuel starvation, and then it ran normally, after another 30 mins or so the engine juddered again and the engine management light came on. We continued for another 25kms or so with the engine behaving normally and then it juddered again for about 200 meters and then continued normally. I am hoping that this problem is not going to cost me an arm and leg when I take it to my local Fiat professional dealer tomorrow!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Check for mice in the air filter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Check the engine earth strap, known to cause various electronic faults. Use the forums search facility you will turn up load of threads on earth strap problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elamessa Posted November 23, 2014 Author Share Posted November 23, 2014 colin - 2014-11-23 11:31 AM Check for mice in the air filter. Checked, no mice, air filter actually in surprisingly good condition. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elamessa Posted November 23, 2014 Author Share Posted November 23, 2014 lennyhb - 2014-11-23 12:21 PM Check the engine earth strap, known to cause various electronic faults. Use the forums search facility you will turn up load of threads on earth strap problems. Thanks, that looks in good condition also, but will try and get it off to check it completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 First step is the engine earth strap as this is a known design fault issue and it is cheap and easy to fix, then if that does not work look for other causes. Just because it looks OK means nothing and best practise with these vans is always to run a supplementary cable as a matter of course even if there are no problems showing. If you use the forum search for 'earth strap' lots of info will appear but for a start off try this one - https://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/That-X2-50-engine-gearbox-earth-strap-again-/33081/31/#M435083 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witzend Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 elamessa - 2014-11-23 10:13 AM I am hoping that this problem is not going to cost me an arm and leg when I take it to my local Fiat professional dealer tomorrow!!!! Very likely will, is there no independent garage who could read the fault code Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Get yourself one of they there fault code readers me 'ansome and read your own fault codes!! See a previous thread on the subject - https://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/OBD2-Fault-codes/35611/31/#M429667 Summat like this maybe? http://www.amazon.co.uk/U480-Diagnostic-Scanner-Fault-Reader/dp/B009SZI4I8/ref=sr_1_9/277-7390063-9264713?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1416760745&sr=1-9&keywords=engine+fault+code+reader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Hopefully Nick will come along tomorrow with his views on possible faults. Fault code readers might give you a clue, or they might send you up completely the wrong path, as with our mouse, three different garages reading the faults codes which told them the EGR and throttle body and MAP had faults, in the end Nick sat in the passenger seat with the diagnostics whilst a Fiat technician drove the van, only then did they get a clue as to what was happening, and it was only on stripping the inlet system and finding the mouse that the problem was solved, for some reason Fiat don't have a 'mouse in the system' code, and considering the number of vans I now know to have had this problem it's a shortcoming ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Hello, This is a new one on me but the guys that arrived on the scene first are correct. You have to rule out the usual suspects first (earth cable, mice etc) and then get the code read. My guess is that the code will be something totally nonsensical like 'spark plug' and will actually be caused by a shorting wire in the loom under and around the fuse box or the blue connector under there that is affectionately known as 'rusty junction'. An intermittent fault like this that occurs while driving is typical of a wiring fault. It is a matter of removing the nearside headlamp, taking the cover off the fuse box and lifting it up. VERY carefully check the wires on either side of the blue plug (because if more than one pull out you won't necessarily know where they went; the colours of the wires are not the same on both sides of the plug in most cases!!), then carefully start removing the insulation wrapping and check every wire for damage. Unless of course the diagnostic code was something useful, then look at that but it won't be. It never is. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 There is a thread on the Fiat Forum about the earth strap with photos that might help find it ...http://www.fiatforum.com/ducato/358832-earth-strap-lead-2012-3-0-a.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elamessa Posted November 28, 2014 Author Share Posted November 28, 2014 Update.... It is the 'papillon' valve in the EGR which dealer changed, but they used a re-conditioned one which they got from Fiat, and it failed as soon as I drove it off the forecourt!!!!!!! They said this is not the first 're-con' one that has failed...go figure.. They are now waiting for new replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 The French dealer and MK dealer both diagnosed that with our van, as thats what the pute said, both where wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 elamessa - 2014-11-28 4:08 PM Update.... It is the 'papillon' valve in the EGR which dealer changed, but they used a re-conditioned one which they got from Fiat, and it failed as soon as I drove it off the forecourt!!!!!!! They said this is not the first 're-con' one that has failed...go figure.. They are now waiting for new replacement.papillon valve?, they must be taking the p1ss. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muswell Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 I suppose there is some sort of flow/pressure sensor which the computer reads. I guess that in the absence of being programmed to check for a dead rodent it goes for the most likely fault it knows about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muswell Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 peter - 2014-11-28 8:17 PM elamessa - 2014-11-28 4:08 PM Update.... It is the 'papillon' valve in the EGR which dealer changed, but they used a re-conditioned one which they got from Fiat, and it failed as soon as I drove it off the forecourt!!!!!!! They said this is not the first 're-con' one that has failed...go figure.. They are now waiting for new replacement.papillon valve?, they must be taking the p1ss. :D Frogspeak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elamessa Posted November 28, 2014 Author Share Posted November 28, 2014 colin - 2014-11-28 8:09 PM The French dealer and MK dealer both diagnosed that with our van, as thats what the pute said, both where wrong The butterfly valve was actually broken when they took it out..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 papillon = butterfly = Francais Butterfly valve = throttle vale = papillon valve simples! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Tracker - 2014-11-28 8:33 PM papillon = butterfly = Francais Butterfly valve = throttle vale = papillon valve simples! close but no Bananes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Just take a blanking plate for the 'papillon valve'.... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EGR-Valve-blanking-plate-FORD-MK7-TRANSIT-2-2-2-4-tdci-Land-Rover-Citroen-relay-/120940252274?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item1c2899cc72 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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