30 per cent rise in Ferry costs

[Tracker]

Had Enough - 2014-12-02 3:08 PM

 

Tracker - 2014-12-02 2:59 PM

 

 

Come on Frank Lighten up a bit and always look on the bright side of life - it's only a light hearted forum after all!

 

 

Yes, but occasionally up pops a subject that merits serious debate. In such cases must we always revert to childish nonsense or are we grown up enough to actually discuss the topic intelligently?

 

I don't recollect a rule that stipulates that every thread must be light hearted frivolity, although for some people that's obviously their only operating mode. And I don't mean you by the way.

 

After all your many years on this planet Frank you must be aware by now that even semi serious debate can contain elements of frivolity, irony and humour?

That does not make the arguments any less valid or invalid but often it does lighten up a dry enough topic enough to maintain people's interest?

Humour and irony should not be taken as a failing to take any subject seriously and I didn't read your posting as a go at me, but thanks for saying so anyway, although I have found that there are precious few things in life that don't go smoother with a smile and a bit of humour?!

 

[Guest Joe90]

I'm a bit worried in case any of these air pollution measures will prevent my use of my diesel fueled AGA, that I have burning 24/7, but cook on it once a day for around half an hour. :-S

[nowtelse2do]

So what's the answer, death by choking or death by freezing ? If anyone hasn't noticed we haven't had a bad winter for quite a few years and the past two winters have been the warmest on record, this winter (up to now) is also looking to be a warm one.

 

I must say, I like this climate and I'm doing my best to keep it this way or even make it warmer by going out more in the 1984 V12 Jag and the 1973 TR6 which will be taking my son and me around Europe this June.......so if anyone wants it cooler in June, don't go over there, if you want it warmer.....follow us...don't forget the mask B-)

 

If anyone doesn't understand humour...........TOUGH ;-)

 

Dave

[StuartO]

Had Enough - 2014-12-02 3:02 PM

 

StuartO - 2014-12-02 2:58 PM

 

While recognising that we really do need proportionate efforts to clean up the environment, I do get the impression that the initiatives from the EU are sometimes the product of ivory tower thinking rather than good government. EU civil servants being allowed to live in an unreal world and dream up yet another fanciful and expensive scheme.

 

 

So you don't think then that legislators and politicians actually take advice from scientists and that they enact legislation such as this just because they live in mythical ivory towers? Mmmmm, I'll have to think about that one!

 

No doubt scientists are consulted sometimes but science as well as politics seems to have been degraded. Some scientists seek publicity and lobby actively, sometimes for their next dolop of funding or for influence rather than because of truth and the greater good.

 

There are doubtless some civil servants and some scientists who are genuinely trying to serve the greater good but I fear that a lot of things these days are driven by someone's personal agenda and the way the media report things - or the way the key players worry the media might react. Pooling more and more of our governing authority into an ill-supervised EU system and relying on agreement with 27 other countries, seems to me to be a risky and perhaps even dangerous avenue to positive progress.

 

I don't want over-empowered local or regional government in England either, especially as a unwanted consequence of the near miss the Scots had with their nationalist referendum. Westminster-sized national government is about as big and as small as I want to go.

[Steve928]

Joe90 - 2014-12-02 3:43 PM

 

I'm a bit worried in case any of these air pollution measures will prevent my use of my diesel fueled AGA, that I have burning 24/7, but cook on it once a day for around half an hour. :-S

 

Yes, it's suprising that oil burning central heating boilers etc. don't seem to have progressed at all over the past 40 or 50 years. While in that that time our vehicles have gone from crude mechanical low pressure injection up to mega high pressure super-atomised computer-controlled injection with particle filters etc, our central heating boiler uses the same technology as it did half a decade ago; just pump it in through a crude jet and chuck all the waste up the flue.

 

Yet here we burn nearly twice as much oil heating house and water and cooking as we do in our 3 vehicles put together.

[StuartO]

Steve928 - 2014-12-02 4:02 PM

 

Joe90 - 2014-12-02 3:43 PM

 

I'm a bit worried in case any of these air pollution measures will prevent my use of my diesel fueled AGA, that I have burning 24/7, but cook on it once a day for around half an hour. :-S

 

Yes, it's suprising that oil burning central heating boilers etc. don't seem to have progressed at all over the past 40 or 50 years. While in that that time our vehicles have gone from crude mechanical low pressure injection up to mega high pressure super-atomised computer-controlled injection with particle filters etc, our central heating boiler uses the same technology as it did half a decade ago; just pump it in through a crude jet and chuck all the waste up the flue.

 

Yet here we burn nearly twice as much oil heating house and water and cooking as we do in our 3 vehicles put together.

 

We replaced both of our two CH boilers last year (one of them heats an out-building) with a substantial fuel efficiency saving, perhaps as much as 30% reduction in consumption. But we have an Aga burning continuously too, which is unlikely to be remtely efficient - except that sa retired couple we do want heat in the kitchen/snug during daytime hours. Fortunately the Aga does this quite well, so we don't need the CH boiler on during the day, as would other wise be the case.

[colin]

nowtelse2do - 2014-12-02 3:45 PM

 

So what's the answer, death by choking or death by freezing ? If anyone hasn't noticed we haven't had a bad winter for quite a few years and the past two winters have been the warmest on record, this winter (up to now) is also looking to be a warm one.

 

I must say, I like this climate and I'm doing my best to keep it this way or even make it warmer by going out more in the 1984 V12 Jag and the 1973 TR6 which will be taking my son and me around Europe this June.......so if anyone wants it cooler in June, don't go over there, if you want it warmer.....follow us...don't forget the mask B-)

 

If anyone doesn't understand humour...........TOUGH ;-)

 

Dave

Well I thought the -16 of couple of years back was a bit chilly

[colin]

StuartO - 2014-12-02 4:20 PM

 

Steve928 - 2014-12-02 4:02 PM

 

Joe90 - 2014-12-02 3:43 PM

 

I'm a bit worried in case any of these air pollution measures will prevent my use of my diesel fueled AGA, that I have burning 24/7, but cook on it once a day for around half an hour. :-S

 

Yes, it's suprising that oil burning central heating boilers etc. don't seem to have progressed at all over the past 40 or 50 years. While in that that time our vehicles have gone from crude mechanical low pressure injection up to mega high pressure super-atomised computer-controlled injection with particle filters etc, our central heating boiler uses the same technology as it did half a decade ago; just pump it in through a crude jet and chuck all the waste up the flue.

 

Yet here we burn nearly twice as much oil heating house and water and cooking as we do in our 3 vehicles put together.

 

We replaced both of our two CH boilers last year (one of them heats an out-building) with a substantial fuel efficiency saving, perhaps as much as 30% reduction in consumption. But we have an Aga burning continuously too, which is unlikely to be remtely efficient - except that sa retired couple we do want heat in the kitchen/snug during daytime hours. Fortunately the Aga does this quite well, so we don't need the CH boiler on during the day, as would other wise be the case.

 

I'm not sure on particular emissions but all new boilers have to meet minimum efficiency standards.

[Guest Peter James]

Had Enough - 2014-12-02 3:02 PM

So you don't think then that legislators and politicians actually take advice from scientists and that they enact legislation such as this just because they live in mythical ivory towers? Mmmmm, I'll have to think about that one!

 

Of course we all want cleaner air.

I think the spin refers to being used as an excuse to raise ticket prices by 30%, and in blaming it on the EU, when Britain has already gone far beyond EU law with its Climate Change Act - making itself the only country in the world legally committed to reducing its CO2 emissions by such a large amount.

As for the 'scientist' advising the likes of Cameron whose father in law gets £500k a year rent for 3 wind turbines on his inherited land, who is paying these 'scientists' for these studies, and what would they be doing if they weren't doing that *-)

 

[nowtelse2do]

colin - 2014-12-02 4:23 PM

 

Well I thought the -16 of couple of years back was a bit chilly

 

 

 

There's always extremes, but what was the average?

 

I live on the Western side of the Pennines and to a certain extent we are sheltered from the winter East winds. It's been a while since that kind of temperature happened around here and I live about 900 ft up in a valley.

 

I think we get a lot of hot air from Lincolnshire and Uddersfield so that might explain it :-D

 

 

Dave

[Muswell]

StuartO - 2014-12-02 4:00 PM

 

Pooling more and more of our governing authority into an ill-supervised EU system and relying on agreement with 27 other countries, seems to me to be a risky and perhaps even dangerous avenue to positive progress.

 

What has the EU got to do with this???? The IMO has 167 member states,

[StuartO]

The Original Post referred to EU Regulations.

[Muswell]

StuartO - 2014-12-02 5:22 PM

 

The Original Post referred to EU Regulations.

 

Well it was wrong. Don't believe everything you read :-D

[PJay]

Muswell - 2014-12-02 5:30 PM

 

StuartO - 2014-12-02 5:22 PM

 

The Original Post referred to EU Regulations.

 

Well it was wrong. Don't believe everything you read :-D

 

Are you a Euro MP then? You seem VERY adamant about it. It's been on BBC news as well as the papers

PJay

[Rayjsj]

Had Enough - 2014-12-02 2:55 PM

 

Tracker - 2014-12-02 2:31 PM

 

I disagree.

Manufacturers that are unable to make reliable emission control add ons should be made to foot the bill when they go wrong as a penalty for introducing unproven technology and using their customers for testing and development.

And then there might be some justification in penalising drivers any further than they already are penalised by the lack of honesty from the vehicle manufacturers and punitive taxation from the politicians..

 

I don't recollect ever having an unreliable emission control add-on and during my years as a driver my cars have produced less and less filth and far fewer nasty carcinogens.

 

If the odd cat or similar fails occasionally it's a small price to pay for clean air and only the most selfish person would consider polluting the atmosphere in order to save himself a few bob.

 

It might be true for YOU, but that doesn't mean it's true for everybody, the main culprit has been the DPF filters fitted to small diesel city cars and Motorhomes which seldom reach high speed, and are used mainly for short term short distance journeys,(the Cars). The DPF blocks up, the ECU compensates by pumping more diesel to try to 'Burn it off', it doesn't do it, because the engine never gets to hot enough temperature, the excess diesel ends up in the sump, diluting the engine oil, and eventually wrecking the engine. The Folk not re-fitting 'Stolen' Catalytic Converters, are just fed up at being the Target of thieves, when the problem is Scrap Dealers who accept 'New' Cats, that are obviously NOT scrap.

You are wrong in thinking it is Drivers 'Penny Pinching' it is about 'RELIABILITY' and badly,ill-thought out or tested anti-pollution devices. Also Running a vehicle for a minimum of TEN years actually saves the earths limited resources, and makes car use 'Sustainable' for future generations, Changing a car every 2 or 3 years for the 'latest Euro' pollution level is both Stupid and very wasteful.

Ray

[Muswell]

PJay - 2014-12-02 7:29 PM

 

Muswell - 2014-12-02 5:30 PM

 

StuartO - 2014-12-02 5:22 PM

 

The Original Post referred to EU Regulations.

 

Well it was wrong. Don't believe everything you read :-D

 

Are you a Euro MP then? You seem VERY adamant about it. It's been on BBC news as well as the papers

PJay

 

OK I'll post this again. http://www.imo.org/OurWork/Environment/PollutionPrevention/AirPollution/Pages/Sulphur-oxides-%28SOx%29-%E2%80%93-Regulation-14.aspx

 

As you can see the strictest limits apply to the US as well.

[Corky 8]

Had Enough - 2014-12-02 2:51 PM

Corky 8 - 2014-12-02 2:29 PMJust think of all the clean fresh air we will be able to breath, with all this Sulphur reduction, and remember the Pollution China, India and all those other Developing Country's  produce does not float around the world, Oh and the Moon is really made of Cheese.

China and Russia (and other countries) have some of the most polluted cities in the world and have had for decades, but guess what? During that time our air and rivers have become much cleaner, so it seems pretty obvious to me that their filth doesn't float around the world.I can assure you that if it wasn't for legislation you wouldn't be able to breath clean air, as anyone who lived through he smog of the '50's and earlier will tell you. As a child I remember having to wear a smog mask as the air was filthy, and thousands of people died every year from bronchial diseases.Smart Alec remarks about the moon being made of green cheese don't negate facts that are obvious to anyone who actually knows about the changes that have been made in the last few decades, changes that mean we're all much healthier than our forebears.How anyone can scoff at legislation to improve the cleanliness of our air is beyond me.

I don't wish to nor will I get into a confrontation with you , May I just state a few facts, you may be able to remember the Saharan Dust that fell on the uk a time back.  http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/sahara-dust-cloud-reaches-uk-3341912

just to show particles do travel great distances, and May I pose this Question to you," where does all the pollution these countries produce go", are we not under the same O zone layer as the rest of the world. I,m all for a Cleaner environment not only for my Family but for everyone else in the world , I protest this way against all the Carbon taxes we all pay in Europe when the likes of those Countries I have said  do and pay zero , http://earthsky.org/earth/chinas-polluted-air-is-changing-the-weather-says-study, Im sorry if my Sarcasm was Misplaced. 

[Tracker]

Of course particles travel in the atmosphere - remember the fall out from Chernobyl?

[4cls]

Sorry, I see there is already a posting about it, so disregard what I posted earlier.

[Muswell]

Corky 8 - 2014-12-02 9:10 PM

Had Enough - 2014-12-02 2:51 PM

Corky 8 - 2014-12-02 2:29 PMJust think of all the clean fresh air we will be able to breath, with all this Sulphur reduction, and remember the Pollution China, India and all those other Developing Country's  produce does not float around the world, Oh and the Moon is really made of Cheese.

China and Russia (and other countries) have some of the most polluted cities in the world and have had for decades, but guess what? During that time our air and rivers have become much cleaner, so it seems pretty obvious to me that their filth doesn't float around the world.I can assure you that if it wasn't for legislation you wouldn't be able to breath clean air, as anyone who lived through he smog of the '50's and earlier will tell you. As a child I remember having to wear a smog mask as the air was filthy, and thousands of people died every year from bronchial diseases.Smart Alec remarks about the moon being made of green cheese don't negate facts that are obvious to anyone who actually knows about the changes that have been made in the last few decades, changes that mean we're all much healthier than our forebears.How anyone can scoff at legislation to improve the cleanliness of our air is beyond me.

I don't wish to nor will I get into a confrontation with you , May I just state a few facts, you may be able to remember the Saharan Dust that fell on the uk a time back.  http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/sahara-dust-cloud-reaches-uk-3341912

just to show particles do travel great distances, and May I pose this Question to you," where does all the pollution these countries produce go", are we not under the same O zone layer as the rest of the world. I,m all for a Cleaner environment not only for my Family but for everyone else in the world , I protest this way against all the Carbon taxes we all pay in Europe when the likes of those Countries I have said  do and pay zero , http://earthsky.org/earth/chinas-polluted-air-is-changing-the-weather-says-study, Im sorry if my Sarcasm was Misplaced. 

I don't want to get into anyone's argument about how far pollutants travel but the Chinese are taking this seriously http://cleanairinitiative.org/portal/node/12066

[4cls]

Ignore the post I put on about fuel costs and ferry's, some one had already done it, sorry.

[Keith T]

well, as far as I can see from what Brittany Ferries have said they have taken this into account in various ways, including new ferries being brought on to the service and having checked out fares for similar dates to when we crossed this year, the cost is pretty much identical. Perhaps living in the south west, and having always paid rather high costs to get across to France, we have become used to this.

[Guest pelmetman]

Robinhood - 2014-12-02 12:45 PM

 

....the ruling isn't new. It has been flagged for some time, and is reputedly what put the last nail in the coffin of the Harwich-Esbjerg crossing, which had its final voyage at the end of September.

 

AIUI, there are two options for shipping companies, either the use of low-sulphur fuel, or the equipment of the ships with "scrubbing" technology. (or Catalyser and EGR B-) ). No doubt each company will be examining the economics of these options.

 

I would be surprised if next year's pricing doesn't already have the effects largely factored in (and, indeed, various people have been questioning a perceived rise in pricing already).

 

Given my perception that the channel is often covered in a brown haze, maybe this is a measure that we should support (albeit at a cost).

 

 

Maybe they should be fitting petrol engines :D ..................and when ever Chinese or Russian smog threatens...... we just need to turn those big fans on that we have all round the coast >:-) ...........it appears they may prove useful after all (lol) .............

 

 

[goldi]

Morning folks,

 

The price of crude oil has fallen alot so ferry prices might not rise.

 

 

 

norm

[pepe63xnotuse]

Keith T - 2014-12-02 10:05 PM

 

..... and having checked out fares for similar dates to when we crossed this year, the cost is pretty much identical. Perhaps living in the south west, and having always paid rather high costs to get across to France, we have become used to this.

 

Steady on there Keith...The "rip-off..bl**dy EU", doom-mongers won't like that. (lol)