Tyres

[lennyhb]

Space savers are a bit different, they are made from a very soft compound that give a high level of grip to compliment the tyre on the other side of the axle so that handling and braking characteristics are similar. Because of the construction they are limited to 50mph and 50 miles of travel, do much more than that, 75-100 miles and they are down to bare canvas.

[Billggski]

As I said, can of worms.

On my cars it is simple, summer tyres in the summer, swap them over in November to winter tyres, back again in March. My Dunlop 01's actually have a "do not use below 10C"warning.

I've four sets of tyres for the land rover , but that's a different story.

Winter tyres are recognisable not only by the snowflake symbol, but by the tiny cuts or "sypes" in the tread that open up and grip on snow and ice. They have a different rubber compound to summer tyres.

As Derek says, there are no CP winter tyres, I just carry a set of chains. But I still can't fit them by the roadside, despite trying more than once.

Raises the issue of MH's over 3500K again. What do you do?

[Brian Kirby]

StuartO - 2014-12-16 1:40 PM

 

I once had my children in hysterics by referring to M&S as S&M, whic ls also apparently something entirely different!

But not if buying tyres! :-D

[George Collings]

Being a tightwad I put a set of economy tyres on about 5years ago. They replaced a set of Viking tyres that were approaching 6 years and 40k miles that had been fitted as part of the deal when I bought the 'van. An internet check revealed they were the cheapest on offer at the time but were actually made at a Continental plant in Germany.

 

Their budget Euro replacements were made in a large oriental country. One failed after two years and about 12k miles because the carcase distorted. The shoulders wore off over about 1/3 of the circumference on both inside and outside but on the opposite side of the diameter. It was square on the rim and tracking was ok and there was no mechanical wear or bent rim. I have never seen a similar wear pattern and neither had my tyre dealer.Within a year they were all going the same way so I had a new set of mid range fitted. Perhaps they were a bad batch ( charity begins at home ?). They were marked M+S and I never had any trouble on grass or mud.

 

Apart from the big name( and price) brands it difficult to find anything made in W Europe and currently the five biggest van tyre plants are in Turkey. Thats where the new Firestones came from. So far so good.

[Derek Uzzell]

Rayjsj - 2014-12-16 7:36 PM

 

After all of that good info, Does this mean that 'Space saver' wheels/tyres are illegal in France ? from what has been stated it appears so.

If Not, then surely a spare with a differant make of tyre but the same Type/size etc., is legal to drive on, until you go to the tyre fitter and get your punctured one repared or replaced.

This is after all what the OP was getting at.

Ray

 

The following link is to the 2012 “White Book” produced by France’s TPNF (Travaux de Normalisation du Pneumatique pour la France)

 

http://www.tnpf.fr/pdf/divers/Reglementation-LB-To-2012.pdf

 

Section 2 defines the French regulations relating to tyre mounting and indicates that it’s OK to fit a ‘roue de secours temporaire’ (ie a temporary-use spare-wheel) that is a different type of tyre to a vehicle’s other tyres.

 

I notice that there’s no mention in the White Book that French law requires that tyres fitted to an axle need to be the same make, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that the regulation doesn’t exist or no longer applies. This is the 2013 forum-thread that raised the ‘same make’ issue

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/urgent-advice-re-tyres/31371/

 

It would be legal in the UK (and would pass the UK’s MOT test) for a 4-wheel motorhome to have (for example) two 215/70 R15C tyres (one a Hankook and the other a Dunlop) and two 215/70R15CP tyres (one a Michelin and the other a Continental) and it wouldn’t matter which axles those tyres were fitted to. Plainly there could be tyre-pressure implications mixing “C”-marked and “CP”-marked tyres, but doing so is OK as far as UK regulations are concerned.

 

As tyre-make mixing is acceptable in the UK, a motorhome with the tyre combination I’ve just described should be legally OK in France. As was said earlier, if any of the tyres needed replacing in France and a suitable Hankook, Dunlop, Michelin or Continental tyre could not be sourced, and the only tyres readily available were (say) Goodyear-branded, there’s the possibility that two Goodyear tyres would need to be bought not just one.

 

Regarding StuartO’s ‘3500kg' question, the following AA advice refers specifically to a 3500kg weight maximum

 

http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/overseas/snow-chains-winter-tyres.html

 

Having looked at a few German websites, it’s evident that the German winter-tyres rules are considerably more complex than the short-hand advice on Continental’s website, with certain types of vehicle being exempted and less rigorous rules (eg ‘winter’ tyres required only on the drive-axle) applying to others. As Stuart now has M+S-marked tyres on his >3500kg motorhome, driving in the winter in Germany should not present a legal problem.

 

As far as other countries with winter-tyre laws are concerned, there is a lot of on-line guidance (though it has to be said that this may well not provide the full picture.) My view is that, for motorcaravanners planning to visit a ‘winter-tyre law’ country during the winter, if their research still leaves doubts about the regulations that may apply to their motorhome (whatever its weight) they should contact that country’s tourist-board for advice.

[StuartO]

Derek your skills in scouring the internet for best information are quite remarkable, thank you very much.

 

 

[StuartO]

Roads signs sometimes indicate when winter tyres or snow chains are required.

 

I have been reading through the links derek has kindly provided and I also found a use fulinformation source on the CC website:

 

http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/media/7707033/winter_equipment_requirements.pdf

 

If this is accurate, which CC technical advice usually is, then this one information sheet covers motorhomes as well as caravans and seems to tell you at least the bare bones of all you need for each European country.

 

The puzzle for me before coming across this sheet was Italy, where it seemed from some information that winter tyres were required throughout the Country - which didn't make sense because of course in Southern Italy the climate is much warmer than the North and snow is virtually unheard of.

 

The requirement for winter tyres or chains is however restricted in many countries, including Italy, to times and places where a special road sign is displayed.

[StuartO]

Yet another complication to this topic is that some insurers require you to notify them if you fit winter tyres and some might even charge an additional premium.

 

Fortunately a list of insurance companies which do not charge extra, with an indcation of which require notification (only a few) is provided by the Assocoation of British Insurers:

 

https://www.abi.org.uk/~/media/Files/Documents/Publications/Public/Migrated/Motor/ABI%20guide%20to%20winter%20tyres%20The%20motor%20insurance%20commitment.pdf

 

It is easy enough to look up what your insurer requires. The way this list is presented suggests that there are or might be insurers who have not subscribed to this "Commitment" and so might expect to be notified and charge extra if you fit winter tyres!

[Derek Uzzell]

Derek Uzzell - 2014-12-17 9:15 AM

 

The following link is to the 2012 “White Book” produced by France’s TPNF (Travaux de Normalisation du Pneumatique pour la France)

 

http://www.tnpf.fr/pdf/divers/Reglementation-LB-To-2012.pdf

 

Section 2 defines the French regulations relating to tyre mounting and indicates that it’s OK to fit a ‘roue de secours temporaire’ (ie a temporary-use spare-wheel) that is a different type of tyre to a vehicle’s other tyres.

 

I notice that there’s no mention in the White Book that French law requires that tyres fitted to an axle need to be the same make, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that the regulation doesn’t exist or no longer applies...

 

Although there’s no mention in the TPNF’s White Book about tyres on the same axle needing to be the same make, this rule is referred to in the TPNF website’s FAQ section

 

http://www.tnpf.fr/faq/faq.php?rub=generalites&numfaq=1

 

The regulation demands that tyres mounted on the same axle need to be the same with regard to

 

Brand

Size

Usage category (eg, road, snow, special use)

Structure (radial or diagonal)

Speed symbol

Load index

 

An English-language version of the 1992 Directive can be found here

 

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:31992L0023&from=FR

[Airstream]

Hi,

My tyre man recemmended Vredrestein Comtrac All Season for my MH, have a look if you want an all year tyre that has both M+S and the mountain snowflake symbols

 

Ray

 

PS I did buy them and they are great

 

R

[Derek Uzzell]

A potential snag with Vredestein’s “Comtrac All Season” tyre is that it has a directional tread-pattern. This means that a vehicle fitted with these tyres then has ‘left side’ and ‘right side’ wheels. If the spare-wheel (assuming the vehicle has one) also carries a Comtrac All Season tyre, in the event of a puncture there’s a 50:50 chance that the spare-wheel won’t match the wheel with the puncture regarding tyre-direction. If that is so and the spare-wheel is fitted, the tyre will be rotating in the opposite direction to what it’s designed to do. This should be OK in an emergency, but it’s hardly ideal grip-wise and it would not happen with a tyre with non-directional tread-pattern.