gocro Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Me and Mori are spending the second night of our planned six weeks holiday on the Costas in a Hotel in Boulogne after CR05GOR thrrew a hissy fit forty minutes after leaving the Tunnel. The power missed a bit for a couple of minutes then picked up and was normal for a few minutes then suddenly the engine revs went through the roof and ran wild for about a minute then died. My it was cold and lonely on the A15 when waiting for rescue. The Peugeot dealer ( Oh I hate main dealers!) have diagnosed a failed injector which has holed a piston , I cant see any evidence of them actually loosening any parts to come to that particular conclusion, other than the engine is struggling to run on three cylinders. At the best we may be looking at cylinder head piston, piston , Worst complete engine and maybe turbo. Wont get the van home for a couple of weeks and can get a proper head off inspection. Without conjecture or any thing. Has anyone used a reliable ( society of engine re-manufacturers) to supply an engine for their motorhome. I don't want to use a dodgy refurbished unit or go second hand, as most will originate from mega high mileage commercials. Please, I'm hurting enough, so desist from turning this into a spitting match with the usual protagonists. Peugeot Boxer 2.2 hdi 130bhp 2007 49,000 FSH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 So sorry to hear of your disaster and from personal experience of Peugeot dealers in France everything is very expensive and I am not convinced that you will get best advice unless it is best advice for them. Is it possible to get it recovered to the UK and preferably to your home where you have a better chance of getting the right solution as that may well work out less expensive in the long run? a Certainly it may well be a lot less hassle and with a UK warranty that might be more valuable it might be an option what with the language barrier to just write off this holiday, or at least part of it, bring it home, get it sorted and start again? I wish you all the good luck in the world with this. PS Probably a non starter question but - is it possible on modern engines to remove an injector and blank off the fuel flow so that you can drive hat least to and on and off the ferry on 3 cylinders without compression on the fourth adding to the damage - or is it too far gone. Do you speak French and if so maybe a local independent garage could advise? Just a thought whilst clutching at passing straws as many many years ago we had a boat with an ancient Perkins 4 cyl diesel that ran (roughly) for years on 3 cylinders - but it worked - but I do appreciate that things are different now!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gocro Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 Lucky me (ironically) my wife speaks excellent French and we are covered by Safeguard and their AA backed recovery team, a blessing for only a little extra on the premium. All our accommodation, taxis, car rental and extra tunnel tickets are coverd so far they have been very good. Right hand drive Ford Cougar being brought over to Calais tomorrow to pack all our crap in, including dissembled bikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 So far so dood(ish) then. Just a thought - although Nick Fisher (Euroserv) is mainly a Fiat man I feel sure that he would help if he could if you could get to Leicester and he is one man whose judgement and advice I really would trust. His email address just in case - xxxxxxxxxxxxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chello Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I fully understand how you both feel, last May we set off Plymouth Roscoff for six weeks in France and Spain. I have a year 2000 Bessacarr 2.8 non turbo,300 miles into the journey the bottom hose came off, any steam goes under the van so you don't see it.I refitted the hose let the engine cool and filled with water. I drove to friends in ruffec and our planned two day visit became twenty one,red pennent were superb. We dealt with a local garage in Ruffec and they did good job.A new head had to be ordered and many other parts, there were times I considered having the van brought home but in the end the rebuild was excellent,it cost 3500 euros.We continued our holiday to spain and the engine runs like new.Hope you get sorted to your satisfaction,all the best chello Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 gocro - 2015-02-20 7:18 PM ...The Peugeot dealer ( Oh I hate main dealers!) have diagnosed a failed injector which has holed a piston , I cant see any evidence of them actually loosening any parts to come to that particular conclusion, other than the engine is struggling to run on three cylinders... Instances of injector-related major problems with the Ford-made 2.2litre powerplant used in Transits, earlier Ducato X250s, Peugeot Boxers, etc. have been reported in the past. It seems to be ‘common knowledge’ in France, which might well explain why the Peugeot dealer felt able to diagnose the cause of your mishap without looking too closely at the motor. This earlier forum thread may be of interest http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Blown-Engine-in-France/32881/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerC Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Sorry to read of your woes of holiday termination so abruptly. Whilst what happened to my Iveco engined MH might be somewhat different to the eventual problems you find with yours there are similarities. I was happily driving along the M4.........strange noise developed (nothing crazy just out of the ordinary) then the engine revs dropped off and the van slowed so I pulled onto the hard shoulder. Long story short.....AA recovery to garage of my choice and they diagnosed, amongst some minor things the rear cylinder was knackered...no compression. The estimated cost to remove/strip/diagnose the actual problem and rectification/parts etc required exceeded the cost of a recon short engine. The end cost was around £3000.00 and the recon engine was sweet as a nut......lovely to drive.....felt like new. Unless your repairs are under warranty which given the vehicle age it isn't I would cut my losses and go for the recon short engine option. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 gocro - 2015-02-20 7:18 PM Peugeot Boxer 2.2 hdi 130bhp 2007 49,000 FSH I believe they came out of the factory as 120bhp. Has it been modified? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Derek Uzzell - 2015-02-21 9:28 AM gocro - 2015-02-20 7:18 PM ...The Peugeot dealer ( Oh I hate main dealers!) have diagnosed a failed injector which has holed a piston , I cant see any evidence of them actually loosening any parts to come to that particular conclusion, other than the engine is struggling to run on three cylinders... Instances of injector-related major problems with the Ford-made 2.2litre powerplant used in Transits, earlier Ducato X250s, Peugeot Boxers, etc. have been reported in the past. It seems to be ‘common knowledge’ in France, which might well explain why the Peugeot dealer felt able to diagnose the cause of your mishap without looking too closely at the motor. This earlier forum thread may be of interest http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Blown-Engine-in-France/32881/ Is it me :-S .........Or do these two companies seem to have a cozy relationship to each other? :-| .........ie Ford & Fiat (Sevel) ;-).................. As from my observations they seem to take it in turns to have similar, yet lucrative issues for their main dealers to solve :-S ............. Or maybe its my cynical paranoia kicking in again :D ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallii Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 A sad tale, breaking down abroad is no joke as I know only to well. My transit has the same or very similar engine, Ford have software updates that may be aimed at sorting this problem. I say "may" because they do not discuss the reason why any particular software update is made, I wonder why :-S Anyway, the purpose of my post is to point out the importance of having any software updates done at a main dealer. There are others that can do them but there are things only the main dealer can do. I do all my own normal maintenance but still have the software updated from time to time. No doubt "gocro" has had any updates, but if YOU haven't, be aware! I believe overfuelling from one or more faulty injectors is the problem, (at least on the Ford). H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Derek Uzzell - 2015-02-21 9:28 AM Instances of injector-related major problems with the Ford-made 2.2litre powerplant used in Transits, earlier Ducato X250s, / I thought the Ford-made 2.2litre powerplant was used in all the X2/50 Ducato 100bhp, Boxer/Relay 100bhp and 120bhp, not just the earlier ones? And it wasn't uprated to 130bhp before about 2012 when it also became Euro 6 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Our 2007 2.2 litre FWD Transit based Hobby Van was rated at 130PS. Ford increased the engine output to 140PS a couple of years later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 pelmetman - 2015-02-21 4:00 PM............................... Is it me :-S .........Or do these two companies seem to have a cozy relationship to each other? :-| .........ie Ford & Fiat (Sevel) ;-).................. As from my observations they seem to take it in turns to have similar, yet lucrative issues for their main dealers to solve :-S ............. Or maybe its my cynical paranoia kicking in again :D ........... It's your cynical paranoia Dave! :-D The engine in question is a joint venture between Ford and PSA. Engineering develops through failure. Longer term problems are not exposed by bench or controlled field testing. It is only when products get into the hands of Joe Public in quantity that some problems emerge. No company is going to make commercial (or, I would suggest, any) vehicles with engines that self-destruct after a few thousand miles merely to keep their main dealers employed. First the main dealers wouldn't be best pleased because they get all the resulting grief from customers (plus the rates at which they get paid by manufacturers are less than their commercial rates), and second, because word would travel like wildfire and the vehicle would be avoided like the plague by buyers. Who buys a lemon, knowing it is a lemon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muswell Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 hallii - 2015-02-21 4:06 PM My transit has the same or very similar engine, Ford have software updates that may be aimed at sorting this problem. I say "may" because they do not discuss the reason why any particular software update is made, I wonder why :-S H Four years ago the dealer took my new Transit out for a test drive with me and we only got to the end of the yard when he noted that Ford had updated the software so that engine revs rose slightly as the clutch started to bite, to make it less easy to stall. If I were Ford I wouldn't announce why updates had been made, why volunteer for grief? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Brian Kirby - 2015-02-21 5:05 PM Our 2007 2.2 litre FWD Transit based Hobby Van was rated at 130PS. Ford increased the engine output to 140PS a couple of years later. Well when I bought my Citroen Relay in 2009 you could only have 100bhp, 120bhp, (both Ford/PSA 2.2 litre) or 160bhp (Fiat 3 litre) I still have the brochure confirming that and I understood Peugeot Boxer to be the same as I went there for a quote (but got a better deal on a Citroen). So I can't understand why this one is 130bhp. I only ask in case there has been some software modification which may give us a clue as to why this well regarded engine has failed at such a low mileage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Brian Kirby - 2015-02-21 5:20 PM pelmetman - 2015-02-21 4:00 PM............................... Is it me :-S .........Or do these two companies seem to have a cozy relationship to each other? :-| .........ie Ford & Fiat (Sevel) ;-).................. As from my observations they seem to take it in turns to have similar, yet lucrative issues for their main dealers to solve :-S ............. Or maybe its my cynical paranoia kicking in again :D ........... It's your cynical paranoia Dave! :-D The engine in question is a joint venture between Ford and PSA. Engineering develops through failure. Longer term problems are not exposed by bench or controlled field testing. It is only when products get into the hands of Joe Public in quantity that some problems emerge. No company is going to make commercial (or, I would suggest, any) vehicles with engines that self-destruct after a few thousand miles merely to keep their main dealers employed. First the main dealers wouldn't be best pleased because they get all the resulting grief from customers (plus the rates at which they get paid by manufacturers are less than their commercial rates), and second, because word would travel like wildfire and the vehicle would be avoided like the plague by buyers. Who buys a lemon, knowing it is a lemon? The Yanks invented an engine that required servicing every 100'000 miles years ago Brian ;-) .............then some muppet decided to add a computer *-)..............are computers not the most viable method of introducing random paydays? >:-) .......... Just ask the banks (lol) ............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Muswell - 2015-02-21 5:49 PM hallii - 2015-02-21 4:06 PM My transit has the same or very similar engine, Ford have software updates that may be aimed at sorting this problem. I say "may" because they do not discuss the reason why any particular software update is made, I wonder why :-S H Four years ago the dealer took my new Transit out for a test drive with me and we only got to the end of the yard when he noted that Ford had updated the software so that engine revs rose slightly as the clutch started to bite, to make it less easy to stall. If I were Ford I wouldn't announce why updates had been made, why volunteer for grief? The same engine was also used in Land Rovers, and the stalling was not acceptable in mud-pluggers, so JLR invented an anti-stall program for it. When I bitched to the Ford agent about the stalling after we'd had the van about a year, he said he thought Ford had released the mod as a remap where owners complained about the stall. (Not really a stall, just an electronic shut-down if the revs dropped below a pre-set number - 500 maybe. It was apparently supposed to protect the engine from abuse.) So, they re-mapped the ECU with the anti-stall, FoC, and it was generally very impressive. Not faultless, but a huge improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 pelmetman - 2015-02-21 6:54 PM.........................are computers not the most viable method of introducing random paydays? >:-) .......... Just ask the banks (lol) ............. We digress, (apologies Gordon) but show me a modern vehicle that has no computer on board. They have their pros and cons. But, overall, the pros seem to me to outweigh the cons. Engines have come a long way over the years. They used to need a decoke every few thousand miles. No longer. They used to need servicing every 3,000 miles. Now they go 24 months. They used to need new plugs every year. No longer (generally). They used to drink more fuel than they now do. They used not to start when it was damp. Now (generally) no more. They used to use more oil than they now do. They used to be more mechanically unreliable than they now are. They used to be much noisier and smellier than they now are. I used to be able to tune and fix them. No longer! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Brian Kirby - 2015-02-21 7:21 PM I used to be able to tune and fix them. No longer! :-D I rest my case :D ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gocro Posted February 21, 2015 Author Share Posted February 21, 2015 Peter James - 2015-02-21 3:52 PM gocro - 2015-02-20 7:18 PM Peugeot Boxer 2.2 hdi 130bhp 2007 49,000 FSH I believe they came out of the factory as 120bhp. Has it been modified? Nope, it's 120bhp. I made a mistake. We have had no issues at all during our two years of ownership and have always praised the pulling power of this engine. We are still waiting for someone that has actually fitted a re-manufactured unit ( with a costs, please )rather than a refurbished one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muswell Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 pelmetman - 2015-02-21 6:54 PM .......are computers not the most viable method of introducing random paydays? >:-) .......... If you don't like computers what are you doing here? :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Muswell - 2015-02-21 8:50 PM pelmetman - 2015-02-21 6:54 PM .......are computers not the most viable method of introducing random paydays? >:-) .......... If you don't like computers what are you doing here? :-D It's a very useful tool for us armchair anarchists :D .................Just as it is for big business who wish to create a valuable income stream ;-) .......... I wouldn't want one in my motor though 8-)................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 gocro - 2015-02-21 8:43 PM Peter James - 2015-02-21 3:52 PM gocro - 2015-02-20 7:18 PM Peugeot Boxer 2.2 hdi 130bhp 2007 49,000 FSH I believe they came out of the factory as 120bhp. Has it been modified? Nope, it's 120bhp. I made a mistake. We have had no issues at all during our two years of ownership and have always praised the pulling power of this engine. We are still waiting for someone that has actually fitted a re-manufactured unit ( with a costs, please )rather than a refurbished one. Do they do the equivalent of Gold seal engines now days? :-S ............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe90 Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Muswell - 2015-02-21 8:50 PM pelmetman - 2015-02-21 6:54 PM .......are computers not the most viable method of introducing random paydays? >:-) .......... If you don't like computers what are you doing here? :-D He's in sunny Spain................bored s**tless as usual ;-) And as usual cannot resist pushing his stupid agenda, just what the OP wants to hear I'm sure.( with my apologies and commiserations to the OP ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 The original poster asks a simple question and what does he get, a history lesson on the engine and stupid comments from some bloke on holiday in Spain. I regret I cannot be of any help as have no experience of recon engines, at least in recent years, but surely someone can give a proper answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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