Scooter Racks & Payload

[MagHal]

Considered using a rack at first but our available payload is only about 380Kg and making a heuristic judgement about the rear axle load and the potential effects on handling I ruled it out.

 

We use a hydratail to transport our Virago 250 which weighs in at approx 150Kg. The upside is that the hydratail can be removed and disassembled for storage and the downside is the effort in having to do that.

[Gearbox1056]

An engineer friend of mine has suggested that any mechanism , that is produced for road use , would/should be Type Approved and that this can be either UK specific or EU so depending on the chosen category the individual country state has already approved the unit or is obliged to do so.

But they don't always decide to do so , hence the ambiguity.

[rupert123]

Gearbox1056 - 2015-03-17 10:27 PM

 

An engineer friend of mine has suggested that any mechanism , that is produced for road use , would/should be Type Approved and that this can be either UK specific or EU so depending on the chosen category the individual country state has already approved the unit or is obliged to do so.

But they don't always decide to do so , hence the ambiguity.

This is only partly true and depends on the year of manufacture of the base vehicle. It would apply to towbars but not a problem as both Alco and others make type approved towbars.

[Charles]

We have got a Honda Vision 110cc it's 103kg 8BHP. Fun to ride, quiet 4 stroke engine and bigger wheels than most scooters.

Our rack is made by Watling Engineers at St Albans. They know what they are doing and can advise about weights.

I considered the carriers with wheels but didn't fancy paying more on the ferries. I will just quote manufacturers length when booking. We have a 6m coach built van with a small rear overhang.

[StuartO]

Charles - 2015-03-20 10:39 AM

 

We have got a Honda Vision 110cc it's 103kg 8BHP. Fun to ride, quiet 4 stroke engine and bigger wheels than most scooters. Our rack is made by Watling Engineers at St Albans. They know what they are doing and can advise about weights.

 

I considered the carriers with wheels but didn't fancy paying more on the ferries. I will just quote manufacturers length when booking. We have a 6m coach built van with a small rear overhang.

 

With respect this approach could be penny wise/pound foolish and perhaps also a little naive.

 

How often do you use a ferry and how much will you save by declaring a shorter length than your vehicle actually is? Clearly it's not a criminal offence to cheat in this way (unless it counts as fraud) but it is cheating and some booking systems specifically mention that bicycle or scooter racks must be included in the length you declare. Presumably you are hoping that the worst case scenario is that you will be charged the extra fare if they check and discover your cheat.

 

Likewise relying on the supplier of a carrier bracket, who wants to sell you a carrier, to check whether this will overload your rear axle (so that you could plead ignorance in mitigation if prosecuted?) doesn't seem clever to me.

 

Almost all motorhomes are short on payload and all of these are likely to be overloaded if you put a carrier and even a 100kg scooter on the back. It is so likely to happen that I would suggest that putting a scooter rack on the back of almost any UK manufactured motorhome (except perhaps a big tag axle one) is asking for trouble.

 

And overloading a rear axle isn't just a theoretical risk. Our first MH was very short on payload and we didn't realise at the time - and certainly weren't warned by the dealer so we just loaded stuff in as we needed. And then, as the speed built up on a downhill section of motorwayfrom our usual 60 mph or less to 70 mph, the rear tyres must have reached a critical point and one of them burst. I was fortunate to retain control as we got on to the hard shoulder. I still didn't see that overloading was the problem and simply replaced that tyre. It was a few months later that the same thing happened again and we burst another rear tyre. Our speed had built up to 70 mph for a matter of seconds rather than minutes and the bang, the tyre blow up. The the penny dropped; I learned about payload. The motorhome (a 1989 Laika 57S) was so marginal for payload that even a few tins of food and a spare shirt put it over the limit so we part-exchanged it for a better one.

 

We now have a motorhome with a 3.9 ton limit and a rear garage (with a theoretical payload of around 700kg and a garage capable of carrying 250kg) but we could not safely put a scooter on the back of that either - or even in the garage. With our normal loading of stuff, much of which goes into an underfloor locker between the axles, we end up close to being overloaded on a weighbridge. To put a scooter in the garage we would have to leave lots of other stuff behind.

 

Scooter carriers which have weight-bearing castor wheels on them, so they can reduce weight transfer on to the rear axle, are probably the only safe way to go. And if you want to risk undeclaring your length when you book a ferry, you can presumably still do so.

[Barryd999]

Regarding the handling. We carry a scooter (soon to be replaced) on a Rack fitted by Armitage Trailers in Ferrybridge. http://www.armitagetrailers.com/scooterrackpage.htm?gclid=CMfhkbPvtsQCFYSWtAodEh0ADg

 

I have noticed no difference at all in handling with or without the bike on. Our overhang is a bit shorter than most vans with the Alko Chassis and we compensate by loading folding bikes etc in the Luton cab.

 

The rack is I think the best one available on the market, is solid as a rock and it takes less than a minute to get the bike off or on. Best thing we ever did.

[Charles]

StuartO - 2015-03-20 11:23 AM

 

Charles - 2015-03-20 10:39 AM

 

We have got a Honda Vision 110cc it's 103kg 8BHP. Fun to ride, quiet 4 stroke engine and bigger wheels than most scooters. Our rack is made by Watling Engineers at St Albans. They know what they are doing and can advise about weights.

 

I considered the carriers with wheels but didn't fancy paying more on the ferries. I will just quote manufacturers length when booking. We have a 6m coach built van with a small rear overhang.

 

With respect this approach could be penny wise/pound foolish and perhaps also a little naive.

 

How often do you use a ferry and how much will you save by declaring a shorter length than your vehicle actually is? Clearly it's not a criminal offence to cheat in this way (unless it counts as fraud) but it is cheating and some booking systems specifically mention that bicycle or scooter racks must be included in the length you declare. Presumably you are hoping that the worst case scenario is that you will be charged the extra fare if they check and discover your cheat.

 

Likewise relying on the supplier of a carrier bracket, who wants to sell you a carrier, to check whether this will overload your rear axle (so that you could plead ignorance in mitigation if prosecuted?) doesn't seem clever to me.

 

Almost all motorhomes are short on payload and all of these are likely to be overloaded if you put a carrier and even a 100kg scooter on the back. It is so likely to happen that I would suggest that putting a scooter rack on the back of almost any UK manufactured motorhome (except perhaps a big tag axle one) is asking for trouble.

 

And overloading a rear axle isn't just a theoretical risk. Our first MH was very short on payload and we didn't realise at the time - and certainly weren't warned by the dealer so we just loaded stuff in as we needed. And then, as the speed built up on a downhill section of motorwayfrom our usual 60 mph or less to 70 mph, the rear tyres must have reached a critical point and one of them burst. I was fortunate to retain control as we got on to the hard shoulder. I still didn't see that overloading was the problem and simply replaced that tyre. It was a few months later that the same thing happened again and we burst another rear tyre. Our speed had built up to 70 mph for a matter of seconds rather than minutes and the bang, the tyre blow up. The the penny dropped; I learned about payload. The motorhome (a 1989 Laika 57S) was so marginal for payload that even a few tins of food and a spare shirt put it over the limit so we part-exchanged it for a better one.

 

We now have a motorhome with a 3.9 ton limit and a rear garage (with a theoretical payload of around 700kg and a garage capable of carrying 250kg) but we could not safely put a scooter on the back of that either - or even in the garage. With our normal loading of stuff, much of which goes into an underfloor locker between the axles, we end up close to being overloaded on a weighbridge. To put a scooter in the garage we would have to leave lots of other stuff behind.

 

Scooter carriers which have weight-bearing castor wheels on them, so they can reduce weight transfer on to the rear axle, are probably the only safe way to go. And if you want to risk undeclaring your length when you book a ferry, you can presumably still do so.

 

If the booking system asked then I would certainly tell them. I'm not going to include scooter rack in 'motorhome length' and make a rod for my own back. The general consensus on other forums is if not asked you tell them your manufacturers shipping length. I never told them about the bicycles on the back and they're the same thing.

Also it's not just the ferry charges, all the toll roads would be dearer, also how big are the wheels on the trailer? What happens if one of those blew out? You might not even notice until the wheel is destroyed or worse.

We have a payload of 600kg with a short overhang and common sense tells me it will be fine, I've driven commercial vehicles for years. If people arn't aware of what they're driving, that's when things go wrong.

[StuartO]

Charles - 2015-03-20 12:32 PM

 

If the booking system asked then I would certainly tell them. I'm not going to include scooter rack in 'motorhome length' and make a rod for my own back. The general consensus on other forums is if not asked you tell them your manufacturers shipping length. I never told them about the bicycles on the back and they're the same thing.

Also it's not just the ferry charges, all the toll roads would be dearer, also how big are the wheels on the trailer? What happens if one of those blew out? You might not even notice until the wheel is destroyed or worse.

We have a payload of 600kg with a short overhang and common sense tells me it will be fine, I've driven commercial vehicles for years. If people arn't aware of what they're driving, that's when things go wrong.

 

I doubt there would be a big risk with the castoring wheels under the scooter rack because those will be supporting just some of the weight of the scooter but if they are pneumatic tyres them I suppose there could be a potential problem, as with any pneumatic tyre.

 

As far as quoting length to a ferry company is concerned clearly their purpose is to know how much space to allocate for you on the ferry, so using the artifical figure of the which the manufacturer publishes as the length when the vehicle left the factory will be misleading if you have added accessories things which extend the vehicle. Why not use the wheelbase as the relevant length, which would save you even more on the quoted fare? The length they expect you to give is pretty oviously the actual, overall length, which is the space you will need on the ferry. And as far as I know vehicle length is not a factor in toll charges; they are usually determined by permutations of vehicle weight, height and the number of axles. (It would be interesting to hear if anyone has ever been promoted to Class Four on French toll motorways on the strength of an attached scooter rack; I suppose technically it is an extra axle.)

 

I suggest that applying "common sense" to decide whether you are overloading your MH is nohing like as reliable as taking it to a weighbridge.

[donna miller]

Have you considered something like this?

 

A friend has got a BMW R1200RT the same as ours and swears by it.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MOTORCYCLE-CARRIER-TRAILER-DOLLY-/301564865181?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4636aaaa9d

[rupert123]

Charles - 2015-03-20 12:32 PM

 

StuartO - 2015-03-20 11:23 AM

 

Charles - 2015-03-20 10:39 AM

 

We have got a Honda Vision 110cc it's 103kg 8BHP. Fun to ride, quiet 4 stroke engine and bigger wheels than most scooters. Our rack is made by Watling Engineers at St Albans. They know what they are doing and can advise about weights.

 

I considered the carriers with wheels but didn't fancy paying more on the ferries. I will just quote manufacturers length when booking. We have a 6m coach built van with a small rear overhang.

 

With respect this approach could be penny wise/pound foolish and perhaps also a little naive.

 

How often do you use a ferry and how much will you save by declaring a shorter length than your vehicle actually is? Clearly it's not a criminal offence to cheat in this way (unless it counts as fraud) but it is cheating and some booking systems specifically mention that bicycle or scooter racks must be included in the length you declare. Presumably you are hoping that the worst case scenario is that you will be charged the extra fare if they check and discover your cheat.

 

Likewise relying on the supplier of a carrier bracket, who wants to sell you a carrier, to check whether this will overload your rear axle (so that you could plead ignorance in mitigation if prosecuted?) doesn't seem clever to me.

 

Almost all motorhomes are short on payload and all of these are likely to be overloaded if you put a carrier and even a 100kg scooter on the back. It is so likely to happen that I would suggest that putting a scooter rack on the back of almost any UK manufactured motorhome (except perhaps a big tag axle one) is asking for trouble.

 

And overloading a rear axle isn't just a theoretical risk. Our first MH was very short on payload and we didn't realise at the time - and certainly weren't warned by the dealer so we just loaded stuff in as we needed. And then, as the speed built up on a downhill section of motorwayfrom our usual 60 mph or less to 70 mph, the rear tyres must have reached a critical point and one of them burst. I was fortunate to retain control as we got on to the hard shoulder. I still didn't see that overloading was the problem and simply replaced that tyre. It was a few months later that the same thing happened again and we burst another rear tyre. Our speed had built up to 70 mph for a matter of seconds rather than minutes and the bang, the tyre blow up. The the penny dropped; I learned about payload. The motorhome (a 1989 Laika 57S) was so marginal for payload that even a few tins of food and a spare shirt put it over the limit so we part-exchanged it for a better one.

 

We now have a motorhome with a 3.9 ton limit and a rear garage (with a theoretical payload of around 700kg and a garage capable of carrying 250kg) but we could not safely put a scooter on the back of that either - or even in the garage. With our normal loading of stuff, much of which goes into an underfloor locker between the axles, we end up close to being overloaded on a weighbridge. To put a scooter in the garage we would have to leave lots of other stuff behind.

 

Scooter carriers which have weight-bearing castor wheels on them, so they can reduce weight transfer on to the rear axle, are probably the only safe way to go. And if you want to risk undeclaring your length when you book a ferry, you can presumably still do so.

 

If the booking system asked then I would certainly tell them. I'm not going to include scooter rack in 'motorhome length' and make a rod for my own back. The general consensus on other forums is if not asked you tell them your manufacturers shipping length. I never told them about the bicycles on the back and they're the same thing.

Also it's not just the ferry charges, all the toll roads would be dearer, also how big are the wheels on the trailer? What happens if one of those blew out? You might not even notice until the wheel is destroyed or worse.

We have a payload of 600kg with a short overhang and common sense tells me it will be fine, I've driven commercial vehicles for years. If people arn't aware of what they're driving, that's when things go wrong.

Our van is 6.5mtrs but with our rack we quote 7mtrs, it makes no difference on ferries and certainly will not make any difference on autoroutes. Stuart with a 700kg payload you are at your limit with no scooter, what the hell do you carry around with you. On our small Swift we had a 530kg payload and still carried a scooter with a bit to spare on trips averaging two months. I would humbly suggest you start throwing some of the junk away or check your van really does have that payload.

[rupert123]

donna miller - 2015-03-20 6:05 PM

 

Have you considered something like this?

 

A friend has got a BMW R1200RT the same as ours and swears by it.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MOTORCYCLE-CARRIER-TRAILER-DOLLY-/301564865181?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4636aaaa9d

These things have all the problems of a small trailer and place a lot of force on the front forks, would not touch one.

[flightcom]

It all depends on your garage, we have a big door on both sides which gives a bit of flexibility on the pitch but generally pushing it up from the front on the handle bars and out the same way is best. Good luck

[StuartO]

rupert123 - 2015-03-20 10:11 PM

Our van is 6.5mtrs but with our rack we quote 7mtrs, it makes no difference on ferries and certainly will not make any difference on autoroutes. Stuart with a 700kg payload you are at your limit with no scooter, what the hell do you carry around with you. On our small Swift we had a 530kg payload and still carried a scooter with a bit to spare on trips averaging two months. I would humbly suggest you start throwing some of the junk away or check your van really does have that payload.

 

Remaining payload seems to disappear as if by magic. I suspect the manufacturer's unloaded figure was over optimistic to start with. We have quite a few fitted accessories (roof aircon, two TVs and satellite dome with associated cabling, two solar panels, Omnistor awning) and we carry a Weber Q200 BBQ which is bigger than we need (but we bought it) plus accessories, a porch awning, groundsheet and associated collection of tent pegs and club hammer, a windbreak, front and side mesh windbreak sheets for the Omnistor, three or four big levelling chocks, a 12v compressor, two big steel gas bottles, two mains leads and associated adapters, two big leisure batteries, a spare toilet cassette, toolbox, spare wheel, hose reel, dog chains and tie-downs, clothes line and buckets - plus other stuff I've forgotten, like 5 litres of come-in-handy diesel, spare water pump and Schuadt Elektroblok, a small mains vacuum cleaner and a frighteningly large collection of pots and pans.

 

I have already removed, in order to save weight, a small trolley jack (carried because the basic jack looked inadequate) and a generator, now that we have solar panels, and a microwave oven. And I like to travel with plenty of water, so we can stop overnight anywhere without needing water immediately. It all mounts up. Having a big garage tempts you to put all sorts in.

 

The OH and I are also both over the nominal-person-weight of 75kg and when we set off on ourr last trip, with three quarters water and full fuel, we weighed 4,100 kg, so 200 kg over weight. So I now transfer load into the car on its trailer, which was under weight. I will be trying to cull a few more things this year, like the large pair of pruning shear which were once (only) very, very handy.

 

I think most people who do it just fit a rack and load the scooter up without going anywhere near a weighbridge.

[Gearbox1056]

I am very cautious by nature but I wonder why you would choose not to use the weight in the garage if the manufacturer tells you it is OK ?

 

Regarding the length on a ferry , I guess the worst nightmare scenario is that they refuse to take the MH if they have not allowed sufficient space on that crossing but in reality it is doubtful this would happen and more likely they would add a supplementary charge. Different if it was height and they were physically constrained of course.

 

[rupert123]

StuartO - 2015-03-21 9:29 AM

 

rupert123 - 2015-03-20 10:11 PM

 

Our van is 6.5mtrs but with our rack we quote 7mtrs, it makes no difference on ferries and certainly will not make any difference on autoroutes. Stuart with a 700kg payload you are at your limit with no scooter, what the hell do you carry around with you. On our small Swift we had a 530kg payload and still carried a scooter with a bit to spare on trips averaging two months. I would humbly suggest you start throwing some of the junk away or check your van really does have that payload.

 

Remaining payload seems to disappear as if by magic. I suspect the manufacturer's unloaded figure was over optimistic to start with. We have quite a few fitted accessories (roof aircon, two TVs and satellite dome with associated cabling, two solar panels, Omnistor awning) and we carry a Weber Q200 BBQ which is bigger than we need (but we bought it) plus accessories, a porch awning, groundsheet and associated collection of tent pegs and club hammer, a windbreak, front and side mesh windbreak sheets for the Omnistor, three or four big levelling chocks, a 12v compressor, two big steel gas bottles, two mains leads and associated adapters, two big leisure batteries, a spare toilet cassette, toolbox, spare wheel, hose reel, dog chains and tie-downs, clothes line and buckets - plus other stuff I've forgotten, like 5 litres of come-in-handy diesel, spare water pump and Schuadt Elektroblok, a small mains vacuum cleaner and a frighteningly large collection of pots and pans.

 

I have already removed, in order to save weight, a small trolley jack (carried because the basic jack looked inadequate) and a generator, now that we have solar panels, and a microwave oven. And I like to travel with plenty of water, so we can stop overnight anywhere without needing water immediately. It all mounts up. Having a big garage tempts you to put all sorts in.

 

The OH and I are also both over the nominal-person-weight of 75kg and when we set off on ourr last trip, with three quarters water and full fuel, we weighed 4,100 kg, so 200 kg over weight. So I now transfer load into the car on its trailer, which was under weight. I will be trying to cull a few more things this year, like the large pair of pruning shear which were once (only) very, very handy.

 

I think most people who do it just fit a rack and load the scooter up without going anywhere near a weighbridge.

 

Blimey Stuart, no wonder you cannot carry a scooter. As to people who do not weigh their van with scooter, I am not really talking about idiots but people who take all reasonable precautions and do it properly. We have now had three UK built vans all under 3500kg and all able to carry a scooter within the legal weight limits. We fully load any van we buy and take it to a weighbridge, after this I have a drive over scale and take the rear axle weight every time I go away as a precaution, do you do that? I do not carry the stuff around that you do but everything is a compromise and most of it we do not need.

[Solarhomer]

I have a Bailey Approach SE760 3850kg max payload with an Armatige rack. I regularly carry a Honda PCX 125 scooter. We use the motorhome as a 2 berth.

I fully checked the calculations using the provided spreadsheet,and I took the rig to the weighbridge to ensure that everything was OK.

Drives fine. I would also recommend the PCX

Photos and details on request.

[Hawcara]

Be interesting to see the pictures. B-)

[RogerC]

peter - 2015-03-16 9:16 PM

DavidGJ - 2015-03-16 5:31 PM

spartan3956 - 2015-03-16 3:03 PMI carry a BSA Bantam 175cc 100 kg motorbike on a rack mounted off the tow-bar it does have a four pin fixing which gives a more stable and of course stronger, the tow-bar is attached to the Alko maxi chassis.Its easy to push the bike up the ramp and secure.I have travelled many miles without a problem.The ramp that lowers by using a hydraulic bottle jack are very good i have a friend who uses one all over Europe. again with a similar sized bike I have also seen the 2 wheel 360 degree turning wheeled ramps they can take a much heavier motorcycle no adverse reports from the owner he had a Triumph 500 cc on it 371 lbs in weight.Never seen the single wheel version so cannot comment

Thank you to you and Laimeduck. That's encouraging. I've had lots of queries all of which I've had answered by using the search facility as the same questions can get asked over and over again.I couldn't find any advice on how easy it is shove 120 kg of Yamaha up a slope and am now confident that I'll manage.

Unless you're built like Geoff Capes I wouldn't bet on it. Especially as you will be standing on the ground and trying to push it through a small opening. I'd go with the Hyratrail instead. I've got one and they're pretty good.

Sorry I have to disagree strongly on this premise.  It is easy to load/unload a motorcycle weighing approximately 180kgs into/out of the garage of a RollerTeam 600G so unless the person loading said scooter has physical impediments loading a small scooter in a similar position would be easy.  It just requires confidence and patience.

[Eggy]

Used a hydra two wheeled trailer for 6yrs now been to Spain and back 5 times, brilliant piece of kit reverses easily, loads the bike on and off easily (once practised), I carry a spare wheel and have the running tyres filled with "puncture safe" but my reversing camera enables me to keep a check all is OK when driving. Two main points: keep a check on the wheel castor rotation tightness especially after a period of on site parking and remember that as the unit is fixed so the overhang of the van plus trailer swings out so extra care pulling out of parking places ie petrol stations is required. I always quote the total length of the van plus trailer to ferry companies without declaring it as a trailer actually spoke to the IOMan Steam Packet company manager to confirm that they will accept this thus saving me approx £60 if declaring it as a 1m trailer. Had a 225kg scooter now a 200kg Kawasaki without problems. One other point it doesn't like being towed withou the bike on board the wheels can oscillate.

[Camperdude]

Another option:

 

http://www.cmf-engineering.com

[Brian Kirby]

Camperdude - 2015-07-25 11:53 AM

 

Another option:

 

http://www.cmf-engineering.com

Which will be very difficult to reverse under control, if need arises.

[MagHal]

My two penn'orth.

 

We use a hydratail to carry a 250 Yamaha Virago 135Kgs. It's a doddle to tow and reverse and means you aren't significantly loading your rear axle. To date we've covered 2600 miles with it. When I booked the ferry they said tick the bike rack box and include it in your total vehicle length. Easy done (Brittany) (I suggest you talk to the ferry company they all have different perspectives).

 

Downside, they're expensive, they're a bit of a fiddle to set up so WATCH your fingers! They also need careful checking, greasing of bearings etc. before you set off.

 

Many people carry scooters and bikes on a rear rack without any apparent problems so its take your choice as far as I'm concerned. I wouldn't sway you one way or another. The points that others have made here are valid. You should think carefully about the effects of hang circa 120 Kgs from the back of your MH.

 

It will affect available payload and possibly reduce handling.

[bolero boy]

ive never seen anyone whomcarries a scooter on a self supporting rack publishntheir fully loaded axle and overall weights on here....

eg, Rupert, you weighted your van fully loaded, whatbwere the numbers?

[rupert123]

bolero boy - 2015-07-26 9:23 PM

 

ive never seen anyone whomcarries a scooter on a self supporting rack publishntheir fully loaded axle and overall weights on here....

eg, Rupert, you weighted your van fully loaded, whatbwere the numbers?

Last trip 1550kgs front, 1945kgs rear, fully loaded with passengers and filled with fuel and about 70ltrs water, not sure what this proves but if it makes you happy.

[keninpalamos]

DavidGJ - 2015-03-16 8:02 AM

 

flightcom - 2015-03-15 7:12 PM

 

We have carried a scooter for many years and it's fantastic so go for it. You can go into the centre of most cities towns and villages throughout Europe without hastle. We originally carried on a rack of a 6 metre home with ramp but now have a seven metre with garage and find much better. Our scooter is a Honda ANF 125, at about 106 kgs. We have seen some amazing racks that can carry heavier bikes the best being a towed carrier with two tow hooks, one either side and 360 Deg wheels, so no reversing problems, however it was £3500. One word of advice if carrying on a rear rack, some countries may pull you up for it, Portugal in particular. Last year we did most of Italy on a scooter and it was terrific.

Have fun!

 

I'm considering a scooter for the reasons you mention. I just worry about getting it into the garage. How easy is it pushing it up a ramp? Do you need to use the engine or can you do it without?

Not much of a problem if it's a twist and go type scooter say a 50 or at a push 125cc depends how high your garage floor is and how long the ramp is. I find mine ok but don't take it every year. The van is an older Hymer E700, the scooter is a 50cc Zip. The distance from the centre line of the scooter to the same on the rear axle is 3 ft which compared to having a scooter rack on the back is a drop in the ocean. When buying the scooter take the 'van to make sure everything fits and it can be secured to the floor. (ratchet straps are safe and quick. When I say floor I do of coarse mean through the floor to the chassis