What considerations for first motorhome?

[Lizzie]

Hi We would welcome any ideas. First of all we thought we wanted a fixed bed but then were put off this when thinking it is a waste of space all day and the beds are not generally very big. We then moved on to looking at a rear u-shaped lounge which converts to a big double but because of lack of garage, we thought we would like the over cab to use as storage. We liked the autotrail starspirit we saw yesterday.

It has diesel heating is this a problem? A good thing?

 

There are only two of us (with a possible occasional visitor) and a dog. We would want to take bikes, possibly a dog trailer to go on the bikes and then just the usual - two outside chairs, bbq etc. We plan on using the van in school holidays - so 6 weeks in Europe in the summer, two weeks at Easter, 2 weeks October and Feb and May half terms, plus some weekends. After a couple of years I would be retiring so could use it all the more then as OH already retired. When in this country we want to be able to go to Scotland and islands, cornwall and anywhere we fancy really.

So my question is - what layout would you recommend for the above use? Does a rear lounge seem sensible?

[colin]

Motorhome usage IMO is all about making the most of any space, what some consider a waste of space others find perfectly acceptable.

Take MelB, she has a (poor put apon :D ) hubby and two dogs, after several different vans she now has the same as us with fixed rear bed. This gives masses of storage, a front dinette, and a big bed in back to lounge about on, but if you don't like lounging on a bed would be PIA.

[ron.]

Payload, payload and payload, and others. In other words get the basics right for your needs first then worry about layout.

[Lizzie]

What is the minimum payload we should consider? Would 450KG be sufficient for two people and a dog with not too much stuff? Presume you can travel with not very full tanks for water etc?

[LordThornber]

My advice is this. No two folk camp the same. We can waffle on here about layouts, awnings, bikes etc until the cows come home..

 

Get your van bought, find out what does and doesn't work for you, and adapt accordingly. Some will shout, noooooooo, don't make an expensive mistake.

 

If you think you'll find a perfect or near perfect van - I think you're in for either a rude awakening or a very very long search.

 

I've read on here about folk taking years (seriously) looking for a van.

 

Martyn

[Guest JudgeMental]

Fixed beds are the most popular Europe wide not in the UK. if you elect for a UK design that requires you to make the bed up every night? both go to bed at the same time? its entirely up to you. we prefer the rear bed/bed's front lounge layout as we are not joined at the hip and prefer to go to bed and get up at different times, watch/do different stuff whatever....Some UK designs so poor bed even blocks kitchen when in use....

 

While its OK looking at the space, you need to imagine living with your choice. Buy in haste repent at leisure! :-D

 

edit: manufacturers can not be trusted with weight claims...Van needs to be weighed as part of contract. IF you are left with 450 kg AFTER fitting extra kit, that manageable IMO

[candapack]

As regards layout, you have probably gathered that nobody can recommend a particular layout that will suit you - it's completely personal.

Can't comment on diesel heating, some love it, some don't.

 

What I would say is ignore your "occasional visitor". Just go on what suits you and OH, any visitor can bring a tent.

 

 

[Solomongrundy]

Go to one of the Motorhome Shows, have a look inside every MH you think you can afford (new or second hand) and after the umpteenth one you go in it suddenly hits you – this one is for me!

 

There are so many variables in MH style, layout, payload, length and height, accessories, etc that only you can recognise what suits you and the lifestyle you lead.

 

No-one yet has built or bought the perfect Motorhome but most people manage to buy a decent compromise and enjoy what they've bought.

 

[Budgie823]

Hi Lizzie, I agree with all of the above in that we all have different needs when it comes to layout and have to give very serious consideration to payload. I cannot stress enough the need not to rush into your first purchase as I really thought I had done my homework before buying our first MH last year. We finally opted for a new continental with a fixed bed layout but very soon realised it was not right for us. We are now waiting on delivery of our new Autotrail with a rear lounge. I feel as certain as I can that this is the right one but it has come at a great loss financially. As has been said many times on this forum it is worth considering hiring first to get a feel for it. Best of luck whichever way you go.

[ron.]

Lizzie - 2015-05-18 10:59 AM

 

What is the minimum payload we should consider? Would 450KG be sufficient for two people and a dog with not too much stuff? Presume you can travel with not very full tanks for water etc?

 

450kg should be OK LizzIe. I would have said 500kg but that would be nitpicking just for two people. Don't forget that payload applies to each axle as well as overall weight. Also take into consideration things you might want to add later if you haven't already, such as awnings, bikes, etc. Yes, you can of course drive with very little water carried but its just another thing you should not have to think about. Having to keep emptying and filling with water every time you move is something you can do without if it can be avoided, you are supposed to be enjoying yourself. :-D

[Rayjsj]

Already answered you, on the other thread. in the end, all of our opinions are just that, OUR opinions, you are the one who has to live with your choice. good hunting. Ray

[Guest pelmetman]

Lizzie - 2015-05-18 10:33 AM

 

Hi We would welcome any ideas. First of all we thought we wanted a fixed bed but then were put off this when thinking it is a waste of space all day and the beds are not generally very big. We then moved on to looking at a rear u-shaped lounge which converts to a big double but because of lack of garage, we thought we would like the over cab to use as storage.

 

Dunno why folk think of the over cab as storage :-S ..............Ours is our bed, and has all the advantages of a fixed bed ie being permanently made up, without wasting floor space B-) ...........

 

 

[Brock]

Start with what is impossible for you.

 

For example, do you have, or can obtain, a licence that allows you to drive over 3500kgs [licences prior to January 1997 should have the necessary C1 entitlement]? Are there any parking restrictions where you intend to park the van when not in use such as the maximum length/width/height of vehicle? Do you have mobility issues which may stop you from clambering into beds? What is your budget? What age van would you exclude?

 

From there, you can eliminate certain options and then focus on what is possible and desirable.

 

U shaped lounges are popular in the UK but it means your bikes will be on the external outer wall. Some people prefer to keep them in a garage for security and to lessen vehicle overhang at the rear. Making up a bed overnight for 6 weeks might become a chore even though it may only take minutes. Beds that are used for daytime lounging have to have dual purpose foam which some find less comfortable for sleeping.

 

Have a look at this for diesel heating. Very little has changed since except for there are new motorhomes that can heat on gas whilst on the move.

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/diesel-heaters/1696/

 

In my forties, I was quite happy with a dinette and long bench that converted into a double bed, rear entrance so that the dog could be dried before going into the lounge area, and bikes slung on the back outside. Now, as I'm retired and my wife is about to retire, I want the comfort of fixed beds, the security and loading potential of a garage, and am happy to rely on the cab seats for comfortable seating. I haven't replaced the dog.

[Lizzie]

Thanks everyone - your replies have been really helpful.

[peterjl]

Hi

 

No one has mentioned vehicle length and height.

 

This has an impact on storage ( how much room have you got)

Where you are likely to visit ( narrow mountain roads or Scandinavian ferries make a difference)

How are you going to use it ( small equals more manoeuvrable - look where white vans get to)

Parking.

Also what time of year? If you want to go skiing over Christmas then winterised water tank a must.

 

We are two plus a dog and reverted to a panel van conversion for manouvrrabilty and flexibility. Tried fixed bed, never again, too much space wasted. It has taken us 4 changes to finally find ideal model so don't expect to get it right first time.

 

Peter

 

[Ian2000]

Hi,

 

We have just up-sized to a 6m Westfalia Amundsen PVC from a VW California, and I still cant get over the amount of space and storage inside. There are just the two of us, and we also take two bikes and the other usual camping stuff you mention. Working on the missus to get a pooch aswell, and if so we would take a dog-trailer too

 

We went for a fixed bed at the back (although the middle section can be raised if necessary) for a number of reasons:

 

1. Comfort: we looked at a few other designs which involved making up the bed from the lounge area.

Unfortunately although the beds were large enough (even as two singles) and make up was quite

straightforward my wife found the made up beds very firm and uncomfortable. This was also

true if we used the lower bed in the California, even with a mattress topper. In The California we

slept in the roof - which uses the same wooden slat supports as the new van, and this was a

massive improvement for her. I would certainly make sure that the beds in the van you choose are

comfortable for you. While it might be ok for a weekend, a 5-6 week summer holiday in an

uncomfortable bed wouldnt be much fun.

 

2. Storage: We found the rear 'boot' of the California a useful storage area. We put all the camping

and assorted cycling accessories in two large plastic storage boxes, which can be easily lifted

straight out of the house into the van. We can continue to do this in the new van. I also wanted to be

able to carry the bikes inside the van They are quite a decent spec. and I also didnt want to be

forced to use either a towbar or rear door mounted rack. If I remove the front wheel, and lower the

seat the bikes will fit under the bed. The bed is quite high, with a step up, this is ok for us but might

not be for others

 

3. Similar to Judge I am often up later than my wife - so a fixed bed set up allows her to go to bed while

I stay in the lounge. Obviously this would be true with an overcab bed too.

 

As others have said definitely check the payload .The default spec for our Westflaia was 3300kg, By the time I'd allowed for my wife and the assorted extras (spare wheel, awning, aircon etc.) this only left about 200kg of additional payload, which I thought was cutting it fine for the bikes, camping stuff, food etc. We opted for the 3500Kg upgrade, which gives us much more leeway (plent spare for a dog and its paraphanalia !) ,

 

I would go to a show but also go to a dealers. It can be quite busy at the show, so its not easy to spend a lot of time checking out a van in detail. The show will help you draw up a shortlist , but you should be able to spend a lot more time in the van at a dealers to check out the layout and whether you think it will work for you. We looked at a model based on the 5.4m Fiat at the show which obviously was more spacious than our VW and was a design that met all of our criteria in what was still a compact van. Viewing it at more leisure at the dealer convinced us that a couple of things were just not right (for us) so we went for the larger model instead.

 

Good luck with your search.

 

[Barryd999]

Its always going to be a compromise but for me my layout is always going to be the rear U shaped lounge, front dinette and overhead luton cab so in effect a six berth with tons of space inside.

 

IVe been in 8.5 metre tag axles with over garage beds that have less internal space than our Kontiki.

 

Longest trip we have done is six months and making beds on a night is just like brushing your teeth. Takes 2 minutes and its just one other little job you do without thinking about it.

 

The only issue I am now coming across is that I am now looking towards getting a new van but as we love the layout of ours so much and as has already been mentioned its really mainly British vans that have this layout so our choices are limited and add to that the fact we hang a Scooter off the back so a big payload is required our choices are really limited. If they were still making our exact model (Swift Kontiki 640) I would just keep buying them until I croaked. :D

 

The rear bed is massive as well which is a plus and very comfy. Ive never been up in the Luton but Mrs D has and its also a good size. The dinette beds are not really a double though but basically you have three choices of where you sleep our lounge about. Its just such a winning layout for me and I just cannot understand why its not popular abroad as a lot of continental vans feel very small on lounging space to me.

 

Just my take on it. Good luck with the search.

[Brian Kirby]

Forget everything you think you know, and do two things.

 

First "Google" Vicarious Books, and search their website for a book called Go Motorhoming and Campervanning Europe (or similar, I'm quoting from memory! :-)), buy, and read. It will answer most, if not all, of your questions, and probably quite a few you haven't yet thought of.

 

Second, having absorbed that lot, hire a van that appears to be what you think you want, and take it off for a week or so to see if you have the same priorities when you get back as you had before you hired.

 

Two people with a sensible range of gear (allowing for changeable weather etc.), and using the gas, and water reservoirs as intended, i.e. full, you will, IMO, need a payload exceeding 500kg, ideally near 600kg. This is easily obtainable within a 3,500kg MAM, providing you stick broadly within an overall length around 6.0 metres.

 

There are many vans on the market, with many variations on layouts and, as said above, what works for one doesn't for another - which is why there is such variety. It amounts to a highly personal set of preferences on which no-one else can really give useful advice.

[ron.]

Bang on Brian - It's called just Go Motorhoming and Campervanning and one of the best books I ever bought on our hobby over the years. It covers most everything you need to know in a no nonsense manner. Invaluable for a newcomer and us old long-at-it lags can still learn a thing or two.

 

Ron

[aandncaravan]

Hiring a Motorhome for the week is expensive, but will teach you so much, it is worth thousands.

 

Don't know if you are buying new or part used, but our advice (applicable to others reading the post)would be to thoroughly check out the 12v electrics. They are the thing given the least attention at purchase time, yet one of the most expensive if it's faulty.

With a Dealer charging almost £700 for a Reich 12v charger/controller unit, make sure it all works exactly as it should, especially the 240v mains hook-up as these are damaged when a battery is used beyond it's time. Go into it in great detail to check that every single 12v item works as it should, even down to every single light and power point. A handful of none working light bulbs doesn't cost much so why have they not been replaced? It tells you a lot about how the Motorhome has been cared for.

 

We get so many contacts that start, "I have just bought a Motorhome and the 12v doesn't work fully......".

 

Look out for 'bodges' to the Electrics, they can be horrendously costly to put right.

In our experience a MH with bodged 12v Electrics almost always had a 'money saving' approach to the entire MH.

If the Electrics are bodged in any way then pass it by, as a less than meticulous engine servicing approach is often also a casualty. When this can leave a £5,000 bill for a rebuilt engine, it just isn't worth taking the risk.

 

The batteries are key to how long you can use the Motorhome for. Without a good battery the MH is almost unusable. No Water pump, lights, Fridge, Space Heating, Hot Water, etc. yet the Battery is rarely given the priority/care it should receive.

 

Carefully look at the habitation batteries, they are normally ignored when it comes to sprucing up a MH for sale, again they will tell you a lot about the Motorhome owner.

If they look tired, then the entire MH may have been treated the same way. If they look young and fresh it is most likely a MH that has had better than average care.

 

Very rarely does someone put new batteries on before selling the MH, so expect them to be past their best. If they are poor the Charger/Controller/distribution unit will become a casualty sooner rather than later.

 

 

 

[Lizzie]

aandncaravan - thanks for your detailed reply. Would an AA check cover all these points with electrics? Just worried we don't know what we're doing in this respect and would be relying on trust/gut instinct!

[aandncaravan]

Our sister company Atlantic Motorhome restore Citroen H vans the Buyers Guide page recommends that before purchase the advice of a specialist company is sought. So yes we would always advise a professional survey is carried out.

However, I don't know if the AA would check these specific items. I imagine they do?.

 

We are a supplier of Motorhome Electronic elements to both the A1 Warranty and the AA Warranty schemes, so they certainly are aware of both the potential failure and cost. Our experiences with both Customers and main Dealers over AA and A1 Warranty claims has been good. Claims settled very quickly and without dispute, the last one for almost £900 without quibble, so maybe something else to investigate?

 

One thing to be especially careful of is Motorhomes with a Solar Panel. There are those that are 'professional' fit or Self Fit. The quality of installation varies enormously on both, hence some Dealers now offering less in part ex to sort out the potential issues.

Many set-ups are only producing a percentage of what they should, so probably worth asking the vehicle Inspector to specifically test that the power output from the Solar Panel, if fitted, is to specification.

 

If you want to check yourself if it is a good solar Install (rough guide only) ask to see where the Solar Regulator has been installed. If it is up near the roof, the Installer did not understand the most basic of Electrical rules. If it is down by the Power Controller/distribution unit or Battery they at least understood the basics.

 

If you buy a MH without Solar Power and want to fit it later, take into account the potential depreciation as a result when calculating the costs.

 

 

 

 

[sakofox]

We have just got our first MH, Auto Trail excel. It has a fixed bed and a front lounge. It is basically a two berth with a make up bed as well. Bike rack and under bed storage. We have just returned from a three day test run and we love it, the fixed bed is big enough and more comfortable than the bed made from the lounge seats. It has Webasto diesel heating which is brilliant for both water and heating, although now it's spring I can't tell you what it is like in very cold weather.

We had to have a 6mtr long one because of reversing into our cottage drive is a bit tight. We would have liked a longer MH because the workspace is limited and the toilet is a bit of a squeeze so your feet end up in the shower, but I guess there is always a compromise.

Hope that is a little help.

[Guest pelmetman]

aandncaravan - 2015-05-25 8:38 PM

 

Our sister company Atlantic Motorhome restore Citroen H vans the Buyers Guide page recommends that before purchase the advice of a specialist company is sought. So yes we would always advise a professional survey is carried out.

However, I don't know if the AA would check these specific items. I imagine they do?.

 

We are a supplier of Motorhome Electronic elements to both the A1 Warranty and the AA Warranty schemes, so they certainly are aware of both the potential failure and cost. Our experiences with both Customers and main Dealers over AA and A1 Warranty claims has been good. Claims settled very quickly and without dispute, the last one for almost £900 without quibble, so maybe something else to investigate?

 

One thing to be especially careful of is Motorhomes with a Solar Panel. There are those that are 'professional' fit or Self Fit. The quality of installation varies enormously on both, hence some Dealers now offering less in part ex to sort out the potential issues.

Many set-ups are only producing a percentage of what they should, so probably worth asking the vehicle Inspector to specifically test that the power output from the Solar Panel, if fitted, is to specification.

 

If you want to check yourself if it is a good solar Install (rough guide only) ask to see where the Solar Regulator has been installed. If it is up near the roof, the Installer did not understand the most basic of Electrical rules. If it is down by the Power Controller/distribution unit or Battery they at least understood the basics.

 

If you buy a MH without Solar Power and want to fit it later, take into account the potential depreciation as a result when calculating the costs.

 

 

 

 

After 23+ years with the same camper, our ancient set up still seems to cope with being without ehc for 3 days at a time B-) ...............which given our gadget overload that seems that seems the norm now days, I'm pleasantly surprised :D ..............