LordThornber Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 We're going to have make a decision at some point so here goes 8-) Appreciating 100% that no two folk camp the same, we'd welcome views based around the following. We wish to develop our abilities to travel (sightsee), and/or shop locally whilst on site. We walk, use buses, trains and cycle. Not all at once :D I've investigated a full car licence scooter (a piaggio mp3 300) as I have little appetite to take my bike test but would like to carry a passenger. The cost is approximately £5000 with a trailer. Two 50cc scooters I've ruled out. So I've gone full circle to two electric bikes. We'd need to be able to do a small shopping trip, we have plenty of payload and of course a cycle rack. So in essence, would you think that the electric bike is a viable alternative to the piaggio? We're not after travelling 100's of miles sight seeing - just local jaunts. Your view, thoughts and insults welcome as always :D Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 just do some homework, ID some proper E bike retailer's as near to you as possible. Make sure they provide proper test rides including hills! as some can be a a bit precious about leaving stock out of shop (ridiculous I know) Stay clear of chinese junk sold at motorhome shows is my advice..if you test ride a selection you will soon learn the difference! :-D Eddie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete-B Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterjl Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Hi We used to tow a motorbike until my wife's knee started seizing up and she could not get off, that was challenging at times! She now has an electric bike and waits for me at the top of the hills as I opted to stay on pedal power. My experience of the two says they are good for different purposes. First the m/bike: we never went more than an hour so say max 50 miles each way, but quite often less. Good points:- it keeps up with the traffic and commands more respect on busier roads. Shopping payload about the same; we could get up into and over the mountains. Downsides: towing was a hassle at times and pushed up ferry prices and in some countries tolls. Turning to bikes: easy to transport, the electric bike lets my wife push long distances up hill in the Alps, she still has to pedal on the ascents but we can easily cover 10 or 15 miles each way. Payload is not quite as good for shopping as using back packs and do not have panniers for heavier items eg beer. You can have a drink In the town. You can also go off-road. Downsides, my wife sometimes finds the saddle uncomfortable after longer rides (hint, the modern longer narrower women's saddles are much more comfortable than the big old wide jobbees): she also is not so keen on roads where big lorries or fast cars come by, it does not command the road. (As an aside it is surprising when we go off on what appear to to be country roads, how many lorries these roads can carry). So we now use the bike and seldom feel limited by lack of range. (I still love my motorbike) There have been lots of posts on the forum re the best electric bikes. For my wife I purchased a good quality lightweight mountain bike and added an electric motor kit. The advantages of this are: 1) weight, you can keep the weight down so easier to load on Mhome and less of a bite out of your payload. 2)bike length/geometry - some of the electric bikes are very long which creates more weight and reduces agility 3)wide range of bikes and motors so you can specify your requirements to meet your needs/size/ leg and arm length etc Good luck Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted May 20, 2015 Author Share Posted May 20, 2015 Eddie, Peter thankyou. Some issues I hadn't considered, her indoors has a lovely lightweight step through bike so the possibility of adding a kit to that is an idea. We're blessed with two very long established cycle dealers, but only one sells electric. That said he's offering up 3 years interest free credit 8-) The Giant range appeals. No shortage of hills in this Town Eddie :D Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 The June issue of MMM had an article on e-bike kits. Seems a sensible option if you already have good bikes. I haven't got a copy of the article to hand [it's in the van in Warrington] but I seem to recall you can remove an electric motor to spread the load on the vehicle axles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webbocj Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Having met some Germans last year who were riding AVE e bikes, i decided i would try and find a couple for me and the wife. I have followed all the threads on this site and understand most points on the subject. Eddie is a serious biking enthusiast and what i believe what he advocates is probably that the best is also the dearest? Very much like motorhomes and caravans and the cars that pull them. (A unit as just pulled off the site, a big Hymer with a trailered car , both 15 plates!) move on. I would like a pair of AVE/Haibike/KTM bikes with Bosch 2nd gen. or Yamaha engines, BUT without going into the exact specification of each bike, i seem to hit a brick wall as to where, apart from the internet, i can look at and try the different styles and sizes. I live in Sheffield, not the smallest city in England and find that the likes of J E James offer a small % of the range and of them only one of the sizes. Orders "could be months" and the price would be close on £5k.Ironically i'm sending this message whilst passing thro' Germany and feel it could be the best chance to buy. If we were to find the right bikes then the wine would suffer! So a no brainer, over to you Eddie. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Germany the best place to pick up centre/crank drive powered bikes powered by Bosch/Yamaha or Panasonic systems. Best time to pick up a bargain is approaching the end of the year when new 2016 models come out, Sept/Oct onward. Have had an AVE bike and they are pretty good. Currently have a Haibike and R&M Delite..not cheap but I enjoy them so worthwhile to me. if your in Germany look round on the internet to find a retailer German ebay the best place to see whats on offer, prices will surprise you compared to here. if you want a test ride in the UK you will probably have to be prepared to travel to a e bike specialist shops , there are thankfully a growing number... alternative is to visit a large bike exhibition as you can try a good selection all at the same time. Lenny imported two Bosch powered bikes last month..I'm sure he will post when he sees this... you really need to try before you buy and see if the extra cost of these type of bike is justified for your usage. All I know is they encourage you to cycle more which has to be a good thing right? :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 just had a quick look..there are a couple of AVE bikes on ebay.de under £2k - approx £1400 at current exchange rate. lots of other makes as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyg3nwl Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Hi, we have 2 folding ebikes from prorider, and are reasonably happy with them, ..however others on this forum and elsewhere have criticised them for various reasons.. firstly , their weight, 15kg advertised, but nearly 19plus almost 4 for the batteries, so that is a lot compared with other makes.. secondly, I personally feel that the gearing could be improved by increasing size of pedal end chain wheel from nominal 38 teeth to 42 teeth..I am currently investigating how best to acheive this. comfort..well, maybe saddles could be improved.. for other intelligent criticisms read comments and criticisms from other contributors on this forum..including previous posts from me. tonyg3nwl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 JudgeMental - 2015-05-21 2:22 PM just had a quick look..there are a couple of AVE bikes on ebay.de under £2k - approx £1400 at current exchange rate. lots of other makes as well... Above should have read 2000euro so approx £1400 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 We tried out loads before buying, soon came to the conclusion the Bosch powered ones are the only ones worth having. Ended up with a couple of Scott's very pleased with, as Eddie says brought from a German dealer, UK price £2200 each best discount 5%, German price £1810, but my mate had decided on the same bikes so I brought 4 and got another 10% off, final cost including carriage £1640 each. Off topic, but worth mentioning just brought some Froli Stars for the beds, best UK price £270, I brought from Germany £186, also my Clarion stereo was over a £100 cheaper from a German dealer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliB Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 If you've got a spare £10K how about the Stealth Bomber. https://www.eta.co.uk/2013/01/30/50mph-electric-bicycle-for-commuting/ The discussion at the foot of the above page goes off topic and asks if you can feel your brain! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 We've got a Honda Vision 110cc 14 Reg second hand £1000 carrys 2 easily. 4 stroke quiet engine. 103kg . We had push bikes before but Gertrude wasn't confident on main roads. Now she just panics on the back of the scoot lol. She's getting used to it more now though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 ...I think the original question is one only you can answer, Martyn. I've been through a similar process to yourself, including looking at the Piaggio/Peugeot "3 wheeler" scooters for much the same reasons. I've little doubt that having one of these would widen one's horizons tremendously, (and would be quite a toy!) BUT, we decided against for various reasons. We like to tour in the 'van, settling at different places, and often looking round in the evening when it's quieter, and generally grabbing a meal or a drink - I don't think it would be quite quite the same with additional motorised transport, and the drink would be out of the question. ;-) Walking and cycling have been major pursuits all the (long) time we have had a van. It's what we enjoy, and it has suited us well (admittedly with some pre-planning when we're out in the sticks). We're both getting older, and I've got dodgy knees (dubbed my "army knees" by my son, (think about it)), but an MP3 or similar seemed a step too far (as yet). Accordingly, we bought decent electric bikes almost 3 years ago, both to continue cycling as we were, and to widen the horizons a bit. It was, for us, a very good decision. It is not unknown for us to do a 50 mile sightseeing day, and still get back with 'juice' (often quite a bit, since the assistance is used only when necessary). There are two main pluses for us as previous non-electric cyclists: 1. It has made cycling more enjoyable 2. You can set out on a decent run regardless of the terrain, knowing that if you hit hills (particularly late in the day when returning) you're not going to end up kn*ckered (and 50 miles does get to my knees). I'm not going to extend the debate on which electric bike to buy, as it's horses for courses. For us, it was reasonably specced, reasonably expensive, large-batteried, crank drive. We can generally do two long days without recharge (if off-grid) and are realistically not going to encounter terrain we can't manage, or run out of juice on an extra-long day out. YMMV. So, for us, the natural progression to electric bikes has been a good one, and fulfils our need for the time being. An MP3 or similar would, IMO meet entirely different, albeit still valid, requirements. (Incidentally, given your comment, I have a conventional cross-barred bike, my wife a step through - both with the same drive and battery). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted May 23, 2015 Author Share Posted May 23, 2015 Robinhood - 2015-05-22 1:14 PM ...I think the original question is one only you can answer, Martyn Absolutely Charles, thanks to yours (in particular) and all the other responses they've helped immensely. I strongly suspect we're going down the e bike road first. Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Robinhood - 2015-05-22 1:14 PM There are two main pluses for us as previous non-electric cyclists: 1. It has made cycling more enjoyable Only just got ours but in theory yes. 2. You can set out on a decent run regardless of the terrain, knowing that if you hit hills (particularly late in the day when returning) you're not going to end up kn*ckered (and 50 miles does get to my knees). Need to work on that, so far, go out for a ride, go twice as far,twice as fast, up hill wouldn't have attempted & come back more knackered that if I gone for a ride on my ordinary bike.(lol) I'm not going to extend the debate on which electric bike to buy, as it's horses for courses. For us, it was reasonably specced, reasonably expensive, large-batteried, crank drive. We can generally do two long days without recharge (if off-grid) and are realistically not going to encounter terrain we can't manage, or run out of juice on an extra-long day out. YMMV. After trying loads went for Bosch crank drives with 600 watt batteries. I've just finished fitting a 1000 W Pure Sine wave inverter in the van, also fitted a couple of Schoko sockets in the garage for charging the bikes and a change over relay so that a couple of sockets in the van plus the ones in the garage are connected to the inverter, but if I plug into EHU they automatically. switch over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 i also have a Bosch driven bike and it has a good range on its 400wh battery, so Lenny's will be 50% more again....thats a lot of miles..... wife has had a Panasonic for three years and will get a Bosch (or Yamaha/Kalkhoff) in the near future. I've had mine for about 9/10 months and am rapidly approaching 5000 km, might be more than our car and van put together.....so enjoyable, yes....definitely. my charging set up not quite as sophisticated as Lenny's but I have multiple mains sockets in the van garage and our 500w inverter sits in a underfloor storage cupboard that will accommodate two batteries and chargers, so we are sorted off grid too.... a scooter?, for us, not for a long while, love being out and about on the ebikes, pretty much every day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Lenny's post contained a typo error. The choice is between 300 and 400Ah with Bosch system. More then good enough for most as system very efficient. Can go 40 miles and still have 2 lights on battery, enough for us!. Its worth mentioning the fast charging? 2.5 hrs for full charge, partial charge less.... while some other systems can take all day! this of particular interest to those who camp off grid most of the time. Like anything the devil is in the detail, you just have to get out there and test ride a few bikes to see how they feel and what they offer :-D Chris Yamaha system gets mixed reviews...make sure you try it first! I haven't yet as happy with the reliability and quality of Bosch.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 bolero boy - 2015-05-23 3:25 PM i also have a Bosch driven bike and it has a good range on its 400wh battery, so Lenny's will be 50% more again....thats a lot of miles..... I've only managed 35 miles before down to one bar and telling me I had 2 miles left on Turbo & 8 miles on Eco. Must learn to cycle gentler, but it's not much fun in it unless you are going flat out. :D If going for the Bosch don't bother with the car charger, it's £140 and takes 6.5 hours to charge a flat battery. An inverter is a better option, I went for a 1000 Watt inverter so I can charge both bikes at the same time, also Pure Sine wave, not worth taking a chance with the price of Bosch chargers. Edit: Eddie is right battery is 400 Watt not a typo just brain dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 was being diplomatic! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 So annoying you can't do "likes" on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 I was fortunate in that there was a 'free' battery upgrade from 300 to 400 when I got mine.... yes, really happy with the Bosch, i ride a lot in Eco, as much as I can, switching to Tour for pretty much everything else bar the really long steep bits...... did 40km (round trip) to St Tropez from La Croix Valmer over the hills on the way out 24km, and along the road to port Grimaud and via the greenway on the return, 16km....still had 4 lights left on battery..... in normal use back home, a light goes out around every 12 miles or so......we live on the levels.... ;-) very powerful up hills and a breeze into the breeze.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Chris have forgotten what model bike you have? Riding in ECO you will get over 100 miles..... Eddie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Eddie, Ive got a Gepida, cross bar model, very comfy ride but not a sit up job....ove never got anywhere near running the battery down.....2 lights left after a very hilly long fast solo effort one day but thats about it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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