Dealing with Dangerous Drivers

[StuartO]

I had an interesting experience yesterday, not least because I learned something useful about the way the police deal with reports of dangerous driving - and how it will make a difference if you have a dashcam.

 

To cut a potentially long story short a driver to whom I had to sound my horn in warning took what I suppose he thought was revenge, having been baulked as he was drifting in from a slip road into my path (when I was blocked from moving over to make way for him) by cutting in sharply after overtaking me and then braked hard and put his hazard lights on, presumably to show make sure I realised he was doing it deliberately, to make his point. He was effectively using his vehicle as a weapon, with the idea of making his point. It was a dangerous thing to do because my MH was much heavier then his vehicle and, towing a trailer so the overall rig was 5.5 tons, would have much longer braking distances. He foroced me to brake hard, which was presumably his intention. It was a well- chromed and well-bumpered black, sign-written pickup truck and I wouldn't be surprised if he had the tattoos to go with it.

 

These things happen but occassionally, when someone has does something deliberately dangerous I take the trouble to report it so we took his number and phoned in. The call taker listened, established that I had no witness other than passengers in my vehicle, but took the registrration number and said she would circulate it and that if it was spotted the vehicle would be stopped. I didn't really swallow this and felt my report would just be binned, so I asked to make a statement to a police officer. A cousin of mine who was a police officer told me many years ago that if you make that request they have to let you do so and, having received a statement the officer would have to make at least some enquiries - so the bad driver would at least get a phone call.

 

To cut another bit out I ended up talking to a police officer, who explained that these days, because of shortage or police resources, they prioritise and make decisions about whether to attend - or in this case whether to interview and take a statement and in this sort of case, because the lack an of an independent witness would preclude any prospect of prosecution (based on CPS national guidelines to police) they would not take any action beyond what the call taker had said they would do - which it turns out wasn't just bulls**t after all.

 

Incidentally it also emerged from this coversation that if I had had a dashboard camera in my MH, even a cheap one, and therefore a video of the cut-in and braking behaviour, they would have taken action and a prosecution would defintely have gone forward. No matter if the image didn't show the perpetrator's reg number clearly, the idependent vdeo evidence would show the manoeuvre and our evidence of identity of the vehicle would be enough.

 

And when the call taker said she would circulate the registration jnumber I reported, modern technology means they really do so - and for example their roadside ANPR camera would automatically be triggered to flash the vehicle up to patrol cars, which would react if the vehicle came up in their area.

 

So although no prosecution can occur without independednt human witnesses, a dash camera fills that bill. And despite the reduced numbers of traffic police, technology does mean they still respond to reports like mine when the technology quickly locates the suspect vehicle.

 

The lessons for me were clear. Fit a dashcam to the MH was well as the cars - they only cost £10 on EBay and they work well enough to serve this purpose as well as capturing evidence in the event of a collision. Obviousl the better the dash cam (wider angle, higher d efiniyion) the better to evidence, but even a cheap one will serve.

 

I bought a cheap one off EBay (for under £10) to try it and they do the job. You stick them on the windscreen, plug into the cigar lighter socket and set it to record automatically every time you start the engine. Mine starts a new recordingfile every 5 minutes so you get a date-stamped record, making it easy to locate the file you want on the SD card and it automatically over-writes once the card is full, so once you have configured it and plugged it in (and even I managed that) it looks after itself. I soon got used to the dangling bit of cable and didn't bother to "install it" in any tidier way, it's just not necessary.

 

I didn't particularly want the driver of the pickup truck to be prosecuted but unless people like that find out they have been reported (which might just get them thinking twice) their behavior is clearly unlikely to improve - so if the police haven't got the resources just to "have a word" with peope like this driver these days, for the price of a £10 dash cam and you making a phone call, you can at least help them to bring dangerous drivers to account by other means.

 

Dashcams aren't infallible, in that the lens may not always be pointing in the right direction to capture the event, but even the cheap ones are better than nothing. And of course for purposes of an insurance clain after an accident, their eveidence can often be priceless.

 

And what might feel a bit like being fobbed off when you report a dangerous driver to the police, they do at least put the offender's registration number into their ANPR system and if you have a dashcam video record of the incident, they will do a lot more.

 

[747]

I totally agree with you and there has been follow up action by the Police. A member on another forum did this in Scotland after phoning the Company who owned the Transit van in question. He felt like he was getting the brush off so he phoned the Police. They took the video evidence and prosecuted the driver for dangerous driving.

 

I also agree that it is often a certain breed of idiot who drive these big shiny pickups badly. I refer to them as 'Rednecks'. maybe they play too many car related computer games. 8-)

[StuartO]

Big pickups aren't that common in UK and maybe they are chosen by people who are more likely to be aggressive - but these days I seem to get cut up more often by aggressive young female drivers than any other sort, and the people who get under everyone's feet by driving more slowly than seems to be sensible on motorways are more often men, and not uncommonly younger men rather than old fellas in flat hats, so work that out!

 

I wasn't suggesting buying a dashcam to become a vigilante by starting this thread by the way, just passing on the information about the specific value of dashcams which was new to me and the fact that when police say they will circulate details they can use modern technology to do precisely that.

[Billggski]

A flippant by-product of this is that if something interesting like Concorde crashing or a meteorite landing is caught you can sell the footage. There also seems to be a market for idiot driving as well.

[Sydney1]

Also a convert to dashcams.

 

I went for a HP f800g (after lots of research) which is not at the cheap end but I'm very happy with it. I hard wired into my daily driver by using an "addafuse" for the power source and then I use the cigarette lighter power cord in the motorhome and transfer the unit from one to the other.

 

Not only does it give you peace of mind but I think it's improved my driving as well!

[Guest Joe90]

So on the face of it the guy was attempting to joining the carriageway, in a vehicle capable of easily out accelerating the OPs rig, so rather than momentarily slowing down to allow him to do so he blasts his horn at him, good call I'd say, and guaranteed to p**s anyone off............even someone without tattoos. I think the assumptions made about the type of person and their choice of transport beggars belief, perhaps all motor bikers are greasy leather clad trouble making hells angels, complete with tattoos of course, and that's always the clincher

 

[747]

Joe90 - 2015-06-25 8:40 AM

 

So on the face of it the guy was attempting to joining the carriageway, in a vehicle capable of easily out accelerating the OPs rig, so rather than momentarily slowing down to allow him to do so he blasts his horn at him, good call I'd say, and guaranteed to p**s anyone off............even someone without tattoos. I think the assumptions made about the type of person and their choice of transport beggars belief, perhaps all motor bikers are greasy leather clad trouble making hells angels, complete with tattoos of course, and that's always the clincher

 

I thought Frank had been banned? ;-)

[Rayjsj]

Joe90 - 2015-06-25 8:40 AM

 

So on the face of it the guy was attempting to joining the carriageway, in a vehicle capable of easily out accelerating the OPs rig, so rather than momentarily slowing down to allow him to do so he blasts his horn at him, good call I'd say, and guaranteed to p**s anyone off............even someone without tattoos. I think the assumptions made about the type of person and their choice of transport beggars belief, perhaps all motor bikers are greasy leather clad trouble making hells angels, complete with tattoos of course, and that's always the clincher

Disagree with you on this Joe, when you are joining a major road from a slip road the driver on the major road has the priority, and the 'joiner' should either accelerate to join in front or brake and join behind the driver on the main road ,the 'main road driver ' should neither have to brake or accelerate to 'accommodate' him. I too have often had this happen to me, if the middle lane is clear, then I move over into it as a courtesy, to allow them out, BUT if I cannot, I EXPECT them to slow or accelerate, but I don't blow my horn (or brake) the 'joiner' in the Ops case was just 'pushing' his way out......I would have ended up tooting or hitting him. I have a Dashcam too, for the same reasons as the Op. Its called 'Arrogant'. Dangerous driving, and it seems to be coming more common. Tattoos or No. Ray

[Guest Joe90]

So presumably in what may be congested nose to tail inside lane, and no one slows down to provide an opportunity to join the lane, with you not being able to join the next lane, they will be screwed when eventually they run out of the acceleration lane.

 

I've been doing it wrong all these years then, sod em from now on, I've got the right of way.

 

Even more so if I suspect they have tattoos lol.

 

 

[Rayjsj]

Joe90 - 2015-06-25 12:31 PM

 

So presumably in what may be congested nose to tail inside lane, and no one slows down to provide an opportunity to join the lane, with you not being able to join the next lane, they will be screwed when eventually they run out of the acceleration lane.

 

I've been doing it wrong all these years then, sod em from now on, I've got the right of way.

 

Even more so if I suspect they have tattoos lol.

 

. Actually that's correct if there is no gap in the traffic, they should be prepared to stop, until there is one, or someone lets them out. Bit of a swine isn't it, The highway code. ? ;-)

[Sydney1]

 

If it was a motorway referred to then Highway Code clause 259 states;

 

Joining the motorway. When you join the motorway you will normally approach it from a road on the left (a slip road) or from an adjoining motorway. You should:

give priority to traffic already on the motorway

check the traffic on the motorway and match your speed to fit safely into the traffic flow in the left-hand lane

not cross solid white lines that separate lanes or use the hard shoulder

stay on the slip road if it continues as an extra lane on the motorway

remain in the left-hand lane long enough to adjust to the speed of traffic before considering overtaking.

 

While the line at the end of a slip road onto a dua; carriageway or motorway is a give-way line, it is generally recognised that it is neither safe nor desirable for traffic to have to stop on the slip road, so there is an implicit suggestion that traffic on the dual carriageway or motorway should assist those joining. The Highway Code makes no explicit reference to this, it rightly places all the onus on the joining traffic. So in strict HC terms because the of the give way line at the line at the end of the slip road, the joining vehicle was "at fault".

 

[StuartO]

I didn't intend this thread to become a Highway Code debate, which is why I didn't go into unnecessary detail about the incident which upset the pickup driver.

 

The basic rule is fo course that when you are joining a carriageway from a slip lane, it's your responsibility to avoid a collision, so you have to give way if necesary - as indeed this pickup driver ultimately did, although clearly he resented having to do so.

 

But there are situations in which joining and giving way can be difficult to achieve safely. For example when there are roadworks and lots of cones, when sometimes there is limited space and poor provision for the joiners to speed up quickly enough to join smoothly and perhaps no hard shoulder for them to use as an escape route if it all gets too difficult. Having to stop in order to give way on such a slip road adds to the difficulties by shortenning the distance available even more.

 

Nevertheless the principle is that the traffic already on the carriageway has priority so if, for whatever reason, conflicting traffic doesn't slow down or move over to create a gap for you, you cannot simply barge you way on to the carriageway, forcing them to swerve or brake.

 

Incidentally I don't think the pickup driver was doing that, he just failed to see me, maybe partly because he had a big blind spot but more likely because he didn't look and by the time I realised he'd stopped accelerating and we would inevitably come into conflict, I couldn't have braked my big long rig quickly enough to clear him and the only option was to sound the horn. Fortunately that woke him up a treat!

[Ashpark]

I was joining a motorway yesterday from one of those two lane slipways, the outer one picks up a lane of it's own and the inner one joins a bit further on. A guy driving a silver something with a spoiler on the back (Honda or Mitsubishi?) passed through on my inside, slowed down and extended his arm out the drivers window especially to give me the two fingered salute 8-) . There had been no previous contact between us so I can only assume he was not a big fan of motorhome owners. I had a laugh at the time but this thread came to mind, a wee dashcam might be just the thing for situations like this. Even if it's not considered an offence, perhaps the gentleman could have been a future star on YouTube ;-)

[pepe63xnotuse]

Ashpark - 2015-06-26 3:57 PM

 

I was joining a motorway yesterday from one of those two lane slipways, the outer one picks up a lane of it's own and the inner one joins a bit further on. A guy driving a silver something with a spoiler on the back (Honda or Mitsubishi?) passed through on my inside, slowed down and extended his arm out the drivers window especially to give me the two fingered salute 8-) . There had been no previous contact between us so I can only assume he was not a big fan of motorhome owners. I had a laugh at the time but this thread came to mind...

 

Not for one minute condoning his "gesture" but by rights, being a motorhome, maybe you should've been in the nearside lane of the slip road, rather than bunging up the outside lane?... ;-)

 

 

[alan k]

Its interesting isn't it, in the UK, slip roads tend to be straight and designed so that you can accelerate from the roundabout up to 70 before you join the main carriageway where you generally find the inside lane occupied by vehicles doing 56mph or thereabouts.

 

So there you are doing 70mph on the slip road, cos of course you're joining a fast road so you need to be doing 70 and all those slow so and so s ought to let you get out and on to the outside lane asap.

 

On the continent, admittedly usually with lower traffic levels most slip roads join the carriageway at almost 90 degrees at 30 mph or slower and then you have to accelerate to join the main carriageway and its easier, I think to match speed and join.

 

I don't think our Highway Engineers have thought much about joining speeds other

than now putting traffic lights on some slip roads to slow slip road traffic down.

 

I must admit it's one of my pet hates when some vehicle races down the slip road and doesn't make any attempt to merge in they just try and barge in. I will move and offer them some help when I can but I wonder how many have actually read the Highway Code about joining major roads and of course they will not have been exposed to that situation unless they took a pass plus course after they passed their test.

 

And yes after a French woman opened her car door in front or I should say in to me in a small French Town and then blamed me for the accident. So I do now have a dash cam. Her insurers did eventually pay up and I got my excess back about a year later.

 

The other thing with a dash cam is that depending where you're travelling some 1 min clips can be put together to make a super video of part of the holiday. Our trip to Morocco has some priceless moments captured mainly concerning Donkeys. You do need to check each travelling day and save the best bits though

 

happy travelling alan

 

 

[pepe63xnotuse]

alan k - 2015-06-26 6:03 PM

 

 

I must admit it's one of my pet hates when some vehicle races down the slip road and doesn't make any attempt to merge in they just try and barge in. I will move and offer them some help when I can...

 

happy travelling alan

 

 

Yes, catapulting down slip roads and slingshoting themselves straight across to lane 3, does seem to be de rigueur for the "..busy busy..out of my way..places to be.." motorist... :-S

[Ashpark]

pepe63 - 2015-06-26 5:59 PM

 

Ashpark - 2015-06-26 3:57 PM

 

I was joining a motorway yesterday from one of those two lane slipways, the outer one picks up a lane of it's own and the inner one joins a bit further on. A guy driving a silver something with a spoiler on the back (Honda or Mitsubishi?) passed through on my inside, slowed down and extended his arm out the drivers window especially to give me the two fingered salute 8-) . There had been no previous contact between us so I can only assume he was not a big fan of motorhome owners. I had a laugh at the time but this thread came to mind...

 

Not for one minute condoning his "gesture" but by rights, being a motorhome, maybe you should've been in the nearside lane of the slip road, rather than bunging up the outside lane?... ;-)

 

 

It's one of those bits of road where you need to get into the right lane for your destination as a second lane change is required quickly and I was in the right lane for my destination, How could you think otherwise (lol)

[pepe63xnotuse]

My apologies Ash'... ;-)

 

(..I'm just off out, to polish my Mitsubishi Impreza... (lol) ).

[Rayjsj]

When I am towing the car I make sure I get into the correct lane as soon as the notification is signed up(M42 to M5 for instance) to avoid any last minute movements.You would be surprised at how many cars overtake then swerve across in front of me, thinking I am a 'middlelane hogger' , another reason for the Dashcam.

[nowtelse2do]

alan k - 2015-06-26 6:03 PM

 

The other thing with a dash cam is that depending where you're travelling some 1 min clips can be put together to make a super video of part of the holiday. Our trip to Morocco has some priceless moments captured mainly concerning Donkeys. You do need to check each travelling day and save the best bits though

 

happy travelling alan

 

 

Love to see that alan. All the clips put together showing Donkeys doing 70 mph down a slip road joining a Motorway. :D Second thought's.....I think I've seen some 8-)

 

Dave

[Ashpark]

pepe63 - 2015-06-26 6:51 PM

 

My apologies Ash'... ;-)

 

(..I'm just off out, to polish my Mitsubishi Impreza... (lol) ).

 

No problem Pepe. I'll send the "boys" round to do the windows and tyres for you :->

[malc d]

Ashpark - 2015-06-26 3:57 PM

 

. A guy driving a silver something with a spoiler on the back (Honda or Mitsubishi?) passed through on my inside, slowed down and extended his arm out the drivers window especially to give me the two fingered salute 8-) .

 

 

 

I would have assumed he was proudly advertising his I.Q.

 

 

;-)

[Ashpark]

malc d - 2015-06-26 9:16 PM

 

Ashpark - 2015-06-26 3:57 PM

 

. A guy driving a silver something with a spoiler on the back (Honda or Mitsubishi?) passed through on my inside, slowed down and extended his arm out the drivers window especially to give me the two fingered salute 8-) .

 

 

 

I would have assumed he was proudly advertising his I.Q.

 

 

;-)

 

Malc, I think you praise him too highly :-)

[alan k]

As we left Chefchaouen, a wandering donkey decided that the middle of the main road was the place to roll on his back and have a good scratch and back rub, a pickup driver escorted him to the grass at the side of the road.

 

Later at a small village it was market day, there were lots of people waiting for the Grand Taxis as we approached for 20 miles or so and streams of people with or on donkeys making their way to the village. Here the donkey was king and the fields outside the village were full of hobbled donkeys. It was coming up to the feast Eid or as we were told "sheepfest" so there were sheep everywhere as well for sale. It took ages to negotiate a passage with donkeys and buses being loaded and unloaded everywhere.

 

They didn't have much roadsense and pulled out without indicating whether to overtake, turn left or just fancied a bit of grass at the other side of the road

It was very different to Blackpool where most of my memories of Donkeys are from,

 

cheers alan

[MagHal]

I have dash cams on the car and MH and also use a sport cam on the motorcycle helmet.

 

I've just done 1900 miles in the MH in France and Spain and another 250 miles on the bike in Spain. The worst drivers by far were the sporadic nutters between Portsmouth and Birmingham.

 

The recent road rage stabbings are appalling.