Chuns Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Finally got our new LHD Ducato based Adria 670 into the UK, where it now resides in a barn until I can get it homologised and registered in the UK. Buying UK headlights from Fiat is proving to be problematic. In order to get the appropriate spares the Dealer asked for the VIN. Being German, it throws up a LHD set of headlights, and it appears that, even once over that hurdle, there is uncertainty about the correct part numbers – I have been quoted two different pairs at two (vastly) different prices. The dealer really needs a late model vehicle to get a UK VIN off it, but my local, and slightly further afield one didn’t have any around that they could go and refer to. To be certain, what is need is a UK VIN or Registration Number. Does anybody have a 2015 x-290 Ducato Motorhome that then can “lend” me the VINumber, and the reg in order for me to get a quote? This can be done via PM is this sort of info has any sensitivity surrounding it. Better still, if you happen to know the correct part numbers, I shall be equally in your debt. Thanks for reading thus far, I hope you can help. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 I'd leave the LHD ones on it so it's ready for France and Spain. Perhaps someone will do you a straight swap if you advertise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starvin marvin Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Its not half as hard as selling a pair of LH drive X250 headlights, believe me I've tried, and given up.....for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuns Posted July 25, 2015 Author Share Posted July 25, 2015 Hi, Charles, If only it were that simple. To tax the vehicle I have to provide evidence via an MOT type garage that the foglight is on the offside, that the speedo reads in mph, and that the headlight have the cut-off appropriate for UK roads so I can get the VCA authorisation to submit to the DVLA. Beam correctors won't do. As it happens the minute I have done that, I will put the LHD headlights back on., so I will have a pair of RHD headlights to sell, hopefully somebody will be in the same position as me! Cheers Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Chuns - 2015-07-25 1:17 PM As it happens the minute I have done that, I will put the LHD headlights back on., so I will have a pair of RHD headlights to sell, hopefully somebody will be in the same position as me! Cheers Peter Won't you need theRHD headlights for the MOT when due? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuns Posted July 25, 2015 Author Share Posted July 25, 2015 Now that is something I hadn't thought of!! You are a star, Mike, and I'm very grateful. Cheers, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randonneur Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 We had to go through the same things when we brought our motorhome back to the UK, ours is a Renault, but we purchased them from these people and the service was excellent, don't know whether you have tried these or not. https://www.headlampsdirect.co.uk/headlight/fiat/ducato We also had to send for a dash overlay from Lockwoods so that it would read MPH as well as KMH. We just gave the headlights and overlay to our local garage and they were fitted and the reversing light was changed over and we sent the invoice/confirmation of fitting and MOT etc to the people in Bristol so that they could see it had been done. By the way, have you registered with HMRC that your motorhome is in the UK, we were late in doing this and they charged us £155 (£5 a day) penalty as you are supposed to do it within 14 days. They have actually sent us a letter recently to say there has been an error and they will be refunding the money with interest by the end of July. We will see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Mike88 - 2015-07-25 2:13 PM Chuns - 2015-07-25 1:17 PM As it happens the minute I have done that, I will put the LHD headlights back on., so I will have a pair of RHD headlights to sell, hopefully somebody will be in the same position as me! Cheers Peter Won't you need theRHD headlights for the MOT when due? Nope, you need RHD lamps to register, but beam benders are acceptable for an MOT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 lennyhb - 2015-07-25 4:42 PM Mike88 - 2015-07-25 2:13 PM Chuns - 2015-07-25 1:17 PM As it happens the minute I have done that, I will put the LHD headlights back on., so I will have a pair of RHD headlights to sell, hopefully somebody will be in the same position as me! Cheers Peter Won't you need theRHD headlights for the MOT when due? Nope, you need RHD lamps to register, but beam benders are acceptable for an MOT. Being a natural lateral thinker :D .............. Why not hire a X290 van for the day, swap the lights get it registered then swap lights back...........gotta be cheaper than a new set of Sevel headlights ;-) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanS Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Could the difference in price for the ones offered be down to the X290 having either headlamps with the built-in LED daytime running lights(very expensive) and the others just having normal DRL's ? What does your new Ducato have ? Alan Chuns - 2015-07-25 10:29 AM Finally got our new LHD Ducato based Adria 670 into the UK, where it now resides in a barn until I can get it homologised and registered in the UK. Buying UK headlights from Fiat is proving to be problematic. In order to get the appropriate spares the Dealer asked for the VIN. Being German, it throws up a LHD set of headlights, and it appears that, even once over that hurdle, there is uncertainty about the correct part numbers – I have been quoted two different pairs at two (vastly) different prices. The dealer really needs a late model vehicle to get a UK VIN off it, but my local, and slightly further afield one didn’t have any around that they could go and refer to. To be certain, what is need is a UK VIN or Registration Number. Does anybody have a 2015 x-290 Ducato Motorhome that then can “lend” me the VINumber, and the reg in order for me to get a quote? This can be done via PM is this sort of info has any sensitivity surrounding it. Better still, if you happen to know the correct part numbers, I shall be equally in your debt. Thanks for reading thus far, I hope you can help. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuns Posted July 25, 2015 Author Share Posted July 25, 2015 You could be right, and it certainly seems logical. I don't think they really know what they are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuns Posted July 25, 2015 Author Share Posted July 25, 2015 pelmetman - 2015-07-25 7:58 PM lennyhb - 2015-07-25 4:42 PM Mike88 - 2015-07-25 2:13 PM Chuns - 2015-07-25 1:17 PM As it happens the minute I have done that, I will put the LHD headlights back on., so I will have a pair of RHD headlights to sell, hopefully somebody will be in the same position as me! Cheers Peter Won't you need theRHD headlights for the MOT when due? Nope, you need RHD lamps to register, but beam benders are acceptable for an MOT. Being a natural lateral thinker :D .............. Why not hire a X290 van for the day, swap the lights get it registered then swap lights back...........gotta be cheaper than a new set of Sevel headlights ;-) .......... Brilliant!! I'll investigate that. P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 I think you may find there is more than one headlamp variant. Some, as suggested above, with DRLs incorporated, some with/without remote trimming of the beam alignment, etc. So, from your existing VIN, your dealer needs to access the full vehicle spec and find out the exact spec for the lamps fitted. He should then be able to identify the corresponding RHD part number. I think you'll need a reasonably large Fiat commercial main dealer to get a parts storeman who knows his way around the system, and even then it may be the first time he's have been asked to do this, so be patient with them. It isn't every day someone wanders in and asks to swap LHD lamps for RHD! :-) I'd say hang on to both sets unless the swap is difficult. You may want to tour in the UK at some time, so the left dippers will be useful, plus you will have annual MoTs after the first three years and the left dippers will eliminate all arguments over compliance, if the acceptability of masks/converters gets changed in future. The lamps come complete with all bulbs etc pre-installed, so, in principle, all you need to do is unplug a single connector, release the lamp, install the other one, and re-connect. It used to take me about 20 minutes to do both headlamps on both an X240 Ducato and on a Mk 7 Transit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 Peter I notice that you also inquired about this on the MHFun forum and this resulted in a fair amount of extra detail http://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/difficulty-buying-ducato-headlights.112856/ I’m a mite wary of the 1374294080/1374298080 part numbers. They are apparently for right and left headlamps respectively, but I’m uncertain that they relate to UK-standard left-dipping lights. However, if you quote the numbers to a Fiat agent, they should be able to confirm the numbers’ correctness. As has already been advised, the headlights come in two ‘price versions’ - not cheap if the Daytime Running Lights (DRLs) are normal bulbs and a helluva lot dearer if the DRLs are LEDs. As Brian warns (and as will be evident from this Ukrainian website) http://fiatonline.com.ua/home.html?page=shop.browse&category_id=591415 there are several different ‘flavours’ of these headlamps, so care needs to be taken to obtain the correct ones. Although swapping the LHD-pattern headlamps to RHD-pattern versions temporarily should allow the motorhome to pass a UK-registration inspection, putting the LHD-pattern lights back on afterwards can be expected to ‘illegalise’ the vehicle. I’m well aware that LHD-pattern right-dipping headlamps can pass the UK MOT test if suitably masked (or with beam converters fitted), but I can’t see the VCA being comfortable with pelmetman’s suggested ploy (nor a van hire company being too happy if they found out about it). In any case I’m doubtful about the proposal being practical based on what is said in the "Original, detailed, garage invoice / statement” part of the VCA application form https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/222591/apply-commission-notice-motorhomes.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 Derek Uzzell - 2015-07-26 9:43 AM but I can’t see the VCA being comfortable with pelmetman’s suggested ploy (nor a van hire company being too happy if they found out about it). In any case I’m doubtful about the proposal being practical based on what is said in the "Original, detailed, garage invoice / statement” part of the VCA application form https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/222591/apply-commission-notice-motorhomes.pdf How would they find out about it? :-S .............Spending 400 quid just to tick a box maybe money well spent as far as Mr Fiat is concerned *-) ............ How about this as an alternative suggestion seeing as vans are being imported on a regular basis ;-) .............. Some enterprising chap who's done the deed and bought a set of RH headlights, rents them out at 100 quid a time, to fellow importers B-)........ Some info from the Fiat forum which would indicate it doesn't really matter whether they have DRL's or not, as the plumbing is already in place for either, I suspect Nick (Euroserve) could confirm, maybe he has a set he'll rent out? ;-) ............ http://www.fiatforum.com/ducato/420530-2014-2015-ducato-x290-headlights.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 pelmetman - 2015-07-26 10:48 AM.......................Some info from the Fiat forum which would indicate it doesn't really matter whether they have DRL's or not, as the plumbing is already in place for either, I suspect Nick (Euroserve) could confirm, maybe he has a set he'll rent out? ;-) ............ http://www.fiatforum.com/ducato/420530-2014-2015-ducato-x290-headlights.html Not sure it does really indicate that Dave. The poster in the link said "would seem", which indicates to me he is merely making an assumption. The power take for a pair of 25W DRL bulbs is presumably a lot higher than for LED DRLs, so is the (presumably) body module set to monitor the current in order to be able to register a failed lamp? Nick may know, but I doubt anyone else does. Taking a chance and buying the cheaper alternative spec lights at £400 a pop, and then find they don't work as assumed, means having to buy the right spec ones at higher cost, and then presumably having to try to sell on the wrong ones. Why risk the extra cost of that - in the hope of saving what? Cheapest option overall - do it once: do it right. As the van is new it must have DRLs, as they are now mandatory. Plus if the original spec included DRLs, that spec should be maintained when adapting for left hand traffic. What is being suggested is trying to achieve a piddling saving of a few hundred pounds in registering a van bought several thousand pounds cheaper than if it had been bought in UK. If that route carries a cost risk, why take that risk? The correct lights will be available if the OP finds the right dealer. Then he can just buy and fit them with confidence. He will still have made a handsome saving over the UK purchase price of the same van. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 Brian Kirby - 2015-07-26 11:18 AM pelmetman - 2015-07-26 10:48 AM.......................Some info from the Fiat forum which would indicate it doesn't really matter whether they have DRL's or not, as the plumbing is already in place for either, I suspect Nick (Euroserve) could confirm, maybe he has a set he'll rent out? ;-) ............ http://www.fiatforum.com/ducato/420530-2014-2015-ducato-x290-headlights.html Not sure it does really indicate that Dave. The poster in the link said "would seem", which indicates to me he is merely making an assumption. The power take for a pair of 25W DRL bulbs is presumably a lot higher than for LED DRLs, so is the (presumably) body module set to monitor the current in order to be able to register a failed lamp? Nick may know, but I doubt anyone else does. Taking a chance and buying the cheaper alternative spec lights at £400 a pop, and then find they don't work as assumed, means having to buy the right spec ones at higher cost, and then presumably having to try to sell on the wrong ones. Why risk the extra cost of that - in the hope of saving what? Cheapest option overall - do it once: do it right. As the van is new it must have DRLs, as they are now mandatory. Plus if the original spec included DRLs, that spec should be maintained when adapting for left hand traffic. What is being suggested is trying to achieve a piddling saving of a few hundred pounds in registering a van bought several thousand pounds cheaper than if it had been bought in UK. If that route carries a cost risk, why take that risk? The correct lights will be available if the OP finds the right dealer. Then he can just buy and fit them with confidence. He will still have made a handsome saving over the UK purchase price of the same van. £400 are the cheap lights? 8-) .................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 pelmetman - 2015-07-26 12:00 PM...............£400 are the cheap lights? 8-) .................. You're getting there Dave. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 In this earlier forum thread https://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/2015-fiat-headlamps/36377/31/ I referred to another discussion http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Headlight-protectors-for-new-Ducato/36615/ about headlamp protectors for X290 vehicles in which Nick Fisher (euroserv) quoted list prices for headlamps with ‘bulb’ or LED DRLs. The prices were £962 (VAT inc) for a pair of LED DRL units, or £398 (VAT inc) for a pair of ‘bulb DRL' units. Nick may be able to say whether it’s possible to simply interchange bulb-type-DRL headlamps with LED-type-DRL headlamps but, as Brian points out, the dual-purpose bulb (it’s actually a W21/5W bulb used for the front side-lights as well as the DRLs) will presumably draw more current than the LED ‘strip’ integrated into the alternative headlamp design, which might have a knock-on effect on the vehicle’s electronics. One forum member (tomboy99) explored borrowing from another motorhome owner a set of ‘RHD’ headlamps for a LHD motorhome he was importing, but apparently ended up having to buy a set to allow the vehicle to be UK-registered. The scenario involved was unusual as the motorhome was to be UK-registered as a ploy to minimise Spanish tax and would be kept in Spain subsequently and be re-registered there. I believe ‘borrowing’ was unsuccessful and a set of new headlamps was purchased and later sold on to another UK motorhome self-importer. Evidently Peter (the original poster) is contemplating doing something similar. The idea of renting out RHD headlamps might be OK in a case like tomboy99’s, but this was quite likely unique. The norm is for a UK self-importer of a LHD motorhome to register the vehicle in this country and for the vehicle to remain UK-registered. Fitting left-dipping headlamps merely to wriggle the motorhome through the UK registration process and then refitting the original right-dipping lights clearly conflicts with what the UK registration process seeks to achieve - a motorhome that permanently conforms to basic UK technical requirements. One might as well suggest renting a right-hand-side foglamp and an mph/kmh speedometer overlay and then swapping back to the originals after UK-registration has taken place. Peter began by asking if someone with a RHD X290 (and headlamps that match the type fitted to Peter’s Adria 670) could ‘lend’ him their vehicle’s VIN or registration number to allow the correct headlamp part numbers to be confirmed. One would think this should be the first step and not difficult. (Incidentally, regarding X290 headlamp protectors, it appears that these should be available in the very near future.) http://www.vancomfort.co.uk/headlampdeflectorspage_000.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Hello. If the original poster wants to send me a pm with his chassis number, I will look into this and come up with an equivalent UK part number for him. This will be a like for like replacement. If you want to replace a 'normal' DRL type with LED or vise versa there is more than likely a setting that will have to be changed in the ECU which can probably only be done by Fiat dealers. I have not tried it myself yet but cannot imagine it's a simple plug and play operation due to the very different resistance characteristics of LED lamps and the fact that the ECU may think they are blown or not present without being informed of the change. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelord Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 euroserv - 2015-07-27 10:21 AM Hello. If the original poster wants to send me a pm with his chassis number, I will look into this and come up with an equivalent UK part number for him. This will be a like for like replacement. If you want to replace a 'normal' DRL type with LED or vise versa there is more than likely a setting that will have to be changed in the ECU which can probably only be done by Fiat dealers. I have not tried it myself yet but cannot imagine it's a simple plug and play operation due to the very different resistance characteristics of LED lamps and the fact that the ECU may think they are blown or not present without being informed of the change. Nick As I'm about to find myself in exactly the same position - i.e., bringing a Ducato-based M/H back to the UK and having to change the headlights to satisfy the requirements of the registration process - I've been combing the internet trying to find out what those UK part numbers might be. But if changing them involves the ECU and becomes a job that only a Fiat agent can do - is knowing the part numbers really going to be of much help...? Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 I must have failed to make my point clearly enough. If you change a like for like headlamp with the ONLY difference being that it is a LHD to RHD swap there will be no issues at all. Plug and play. IF on the other hand you are wishing to change LHD to RHD and also want to change from standard DRL to LED DRL (or the reverse) you may run into a couple of issues that may need to be sorted out at the dealer. It should be an inexpensive 'plug in - change a setting'. OK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 If you guys with LHD vehicles want to send me your chassis numbers along with a note saying 'LED DRL' or 'Not LED DRL' i will put together a list of replacement headlamp units for you. The chassis number alone is probably enough but more detail often helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Nigelord - 2015-07-27 2:46 PM . But if changing them involves the ECU and becomes a job that only a Fiat agent can do - is knowing the part numbers really going to be of much help...? Nigel ....you misinterpret Nick's post. There are two headlight options, one with LED DRLs, and one with conventional bulb DRLs. Replacing like-for-like (albeit handed differently), should be a simple matter of substitution; switching the option, however, is likely to be more complex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Nigelord - 2015-07-27 2:46 PM.............................But if changing them involves the ECU and becomes a job that only a Fiat agent can do - is knowing the part numbers really going to be of much help...? Nigel Although this has probably now been clarified, the (implied) point Nick was making was that there are numerous options for settings within the vehicle's electronic components that are not user accessible. Main dealers however, can access these via their equipment (often a laptop with a Fiat program installed). I was originally surmising that because the tungsten filament DRLs and the LED DRLs will almost certainly have quite different electrical loads, it is possible the electronics would have to be "told" which lamps are fitted. That was the point Nick was agreeing with but has not, as yet, had cause to prove one way or another on his own vehicles. However, as he also considers this a potential source of trouble in swapping, I would think it desirable to find out before changing LED lamps for tungsten lamps, or vice versa, because the way in which the electronics may react when the ignition is subsequently turned on is unpredictable. This suggests to me first asking a Fiat commercial dealer what would be the consequences of making the change. To be clear, this has nothing to do with installing left dipping lamps, only with swapping between LED and tungsten DRL equipped headlamp units. If the ecu has to be re-set by the garage each time the lamps are swapped I imagine it would be cheaper to make a like for like swap (even at twice the price!), so that the originals can easily be put back for trips abroad with the left dippers reserved for UK use/ MoT tests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.