HymerVan Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 I believe that the speed limit for my MH is 60mph on single carriageways and 70mph on motorways and dual carriageways. The limit for coaches is I think 60mph in both cases. LGVs are governed to 90kph (56mph) on these roads. I normally cruise at either 90kph (56mph) or 100kph (62mph) . I rarely have conflict with trucks but do observe trucks travelling in convoy with only a few feet of separation. When I was trained as a motorcyclist certain rules and procedures were stressed including the "two second rule". The "two second rule" implies leaving a distance of 176 feet or about 3 truck lengths at 60 mph so it seems that most trucks flagrantly disregard this rule (which is of course just an advisory interpretation of the need to maintain a safe braking distance). Coaches are a different issue they often tailgate me at 60 mph sometimes for considerable distances which is intimidating and also worrying given their human cargo. Is it me or do a significant proportion of coach and truck drivers actually drive very badly ? We are all subject to laws of physics but is there something inherent in the braking or other systems on trucks and buses which make these practices safer than they seem ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muswell Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Yes I've often wonder why trucks drive so close. Apart from the fact that the view is pretty boring there is no reaction time. I can see why they might want to intimidate a car to go faster but a couple of weeks ago I was driving our Golf through the 50mph average speed section of the M1 in the middle lane behind a truck and there was somebody a few feet behind me. I don't know what he thought I was going to do to improve his journey, maybe he didn't feel happy unless he was close to the vehice in front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleddytanhouse Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 I am relatively new to motorhoming, however, I do normally tow a small car and when on a motorway, towing at max 60mph, if I overtake a truck, they normally flash to let me know it is safe to pull in. Coach drivers are totally different. They appear to think they own the road and that everyone else just gets in their way!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 I think it's likely that people who drive all day every day for a living just get a bit complacent - especially in a huge truck - they probably think they are fireproof. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 In the 50mph motorway sections they feel they can get away with doing 56mph and not get caught, so they get fed up with cars doing an indicated 50, which is probably nearer 45mph. I just let them go, I was on a speed awareness course with a trucker who was most indignant he had been caught in one of these sections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 malc d - 2015-08-02 9:24 PM I think it's likely that people who drive all day every day for a living just get a bit complacent - especially in a huge truck - they probably think they are fireproof. :-| Some merit in what you say malc but i'm afraid in today's world it's pressure. Most trucks now are equipped with trackers, sat nav, phones and their movement are monitored by the company. On top of that , on time deliveries where if you miss the allotted time the haulage company is penalised and in some cases not paid at all, so guess who gets the blame. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 nowtelse2do - 2015-08-02 9:48 PM malc d - 2015-08-02 9:24 PM I think it's likely that people who drive all day every day for a living just get a bit complacent - especially in a huge truck - they probably think they are fireproof. :-| Some merit in what you say malc but i'm afraid in today's world it's pressure. Most trucks now are equipped with trackers, sat nav, phones and their movement are monitored by the company. On top of that , on time deliveries where if you miss the allotted time the haulage company is penalised and in some cases not paid at all, so guess who gets the blame. Dave .I'm sure you are right Dave ...but that sounds like a good reason not to drive dangerously close to the bloke in front. Better to arrive a bit late than not at all. ( . and quite a few don't wear seat belts either ). ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Only the later trucks are governed to 56, the older ones, maybe 4-5 years old will do 60. Coaches and Minibus,s are set at 100 kph 62 mph. On A roads HGV's can legally travel at 50 mph, like minibus,s and coaches. They travel close to up there mpg on average they are doing 10 mpg. The later ones may do 12-13 mpg, but when in a slip stream this will increase by 2-3 mpg. Great for the environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 malc d - 2015-08-02 10:00 PM .I'm sure you are right Dave ...but that sounds like a good reason not to drive dangerously close to the bloke in front. Better to arrive a bit late than not at all. ( . and quite a few don't wear seat belts either ). ;-) What happens is that a truck maybe just one or two mph faster so very slowly catches up and he gets into the slipstream and pulls out, this is mostly when you see two trucks side by side but the truck being passed may have more power and then inevitably other vehicles bunch up behind the overtaking truck. What happens then is that halfway up the nearside truck the airstream of that truck (or it's greater power) hits the overtaking one and slows it back down, that's when it goes on for miles unless the driver is sensible and drops back off. But you're right, better to get there than not at all. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muswell Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Billggski - 2015-08-02 9:42 PM In the 50mph motorway sections they feel they can get away with doing 56mph and not get caught, so they get fed up with cars doing an indicated 50, which is probably nearer 45mph. I just let them go, I was on a speed awareness course with a trucker who was most indignant he had been caught in one of these sections. Yes but in my case I wasn't holding him up, it was the stream of vehicles in front of me. Did he think we might all magically move out of his way...in the way that Golf GTIs used to think they could clear the third lane by flashing their headlights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laimeduck Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 It's not just trucks & buses and not always on a motorway! I spent 25 miles stuck behind 2 caravans in convoy on the coast road No 8, from Split to Dubrovnik a few weeks ago. Those who have been down this road will know that it's beautiful, but all hairpins round the coves and very few straights. The 2 numpties ahead were driving close together at about 30mph and speeding up to 50 when the road staightened. Several attempts were made to split them to no avail, so in the end I had to bully my way past. I'm sure it was done purposely as they certainly knew I wanted to pass. Oh ... and yes....you've probably guessed.... they were British! Similar situations on other roads over there in the mountains of various countries where motorhomes of all nationalities (usually Belgian!) in convoy had huge queues behind, but did not pull over to allow stuck traffic to pass. I am not in a rush so am always looking for a place to slow/pullover to allow trapped traffic to pass. I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Muswell - 2015-08-02 10:52 PM Billggski - 2015-08-02 9:42 PM In the 50mph motorway sections they feel they can get away with doing 56mph and not get caught, so they get fed up with cars doing an indicated 50, which is probably nearer 45mph. I just let them go, I was on a speed awareness course with a trucker who was most indignant he had been caught in one of these sections. Yes but in my case I wasn't holding him up, it was the stream of vehicles in front of me. Did he think we might all magically move out of his way...in the way that Golf GTIs used to think they could clear the third lane by flashing their headlights. Probably a frustrated driver trying to keep to schedule, stuck at 45mph because the driver at front of queue thinks he's doing 50. As for tailgating other trucks, it's fairly common when seeing news reports from A14 to see pictures of a crushed cab and hear of a dead truck driver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capstan55 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 All lorries have had speed limiters fitted going back more than five years, and it was the same speed then as now for max speed. As has been said earlier, a lot of the problems occur when a lorry with a more powerful engine, or lighter load comes up against heavier loaded or smaller engined lorries, and decides to pass, albeit slowly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe90 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 I'm always amazed that people assume they are the perfect driver, however the OP is quite specific in his "cruising" speed.................when in fact there is every likelihood when he thinks he's "cruising" at 60 mph, he's actually doing 53 mph, as this is the over reading tolerance allowed on a bog standard speedometer, which is 10 per cent plus 4km/h. A coach or HGVs that are all fitted with tachographs are far more accurate than his Fiat, and whilst he sits there assuming he's doing a certain speed, he almost certainly isn't. If there is a coach, or a HGV following you for mile after mile with no opportunity to overtake they are likely to get more than a little p*ssed off that you are not making sufficient progress as my old HGV instructor used to say, they are trying to do an extremely demanding job of work, day in, day out, not going off on their occasional jollies (!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Elephants racing, quite an annoying sport, if you are caught up in the convoy behind, most cars these days also have GPS's which are just as accurate as the average taco at displaying real time speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 All vehicle speed recording devices take their data from mechanical components, often a gearbox output. There are permissible tolerances on all vehicle speed recorders, whether tachograph or speedometer, so no two vehicles, even vehicles of the same make and model, are likely to record exactly the same speed on the same stretch or road. As Joe says the tachograph is more accurate, but even this allows up to 6kph tolerance, meaning that a recorded 100kph could be anything between 94kph and 100kph, although it must never indicate a speed lower than actual. Speedometers have slightly coarser tolerances, but also must never record a lower than actual speed. Speed limiters also take their signal from the gearbox output, so are subject to the same vehicle to vehicle differences as speedometers or tachographs. There is also the little matter of the driver's viewing angle, which means that where the needle appears to be, is not necessarily where it actually is. There is a further problem with the thickness of the needle itself, which can easily account for 1 - 2 mph depending on which side of the needle is being read. In addition, the small differences in tyre diameters as they wear also cause variations in speedometer reading. Finally there is one's ability to accurately maintain a steady speed while paying sufficient attention to the road around. All this is before the effects of small changes in road gradient, susceptibility to wind drag, and relative vehicle power to weight ratios are accounted for. So, IMO, arguing that other vehicles are travelling too fast based on one's own speedometer reading is pointless. Your speedometer may show you travelling at the legal limit, but that of a following driver may well show 5MPH less. A sat-nav generally gives a more accurate indication of actual speed than either tachograph or speedometer can, legally, give. However, the man in front may not be using a sat-nav. He will therefore be liable to think you are the one who is speeding. So, if the driver behind you wants to pass, just pull over and let him, or increase and maintain your speed to eliminate his need to do so. It is a shame, IMO, that UK traffic regulations do not reflect those on the continent, where it is common to have an enshrined right to pass slower vehicles, and failing to vacate an overtaking lane when approached by a faster vehicle, or accelerating while being overtaken, are treated as deliberate obstruction. There are undoubtedly dangerous drivers on the roads, but there are also the "Holy Joes", who believe their conduct is perfect, and drive to impose that view on others. IMO, they are at least as dangerous, because the frustration they cause tempts others to take rash chances. So in short, just mind your own business, drive your own vehicle, and get out of the way of others doing likewise, and the world will be a better and safer place. Just my opinion, mind! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HymerVan Posted August 3, 2015 Author Share Posted August 3, 2015 Joe90 - 2015-08-03 10:04 AM I'm always amazed that people assume they are the perfect driver, however the OP is quite specific in his "cruising" speed.................when in fact there is every likelihood when he thinks he's "cruising" at 60 mph, he's actually doing 53 mph, as this is the over reading tolerance allowed on a bog standard speedometer, which is 10 per cent plus 4km/h. A coach or HGVs that are all fitted with tachographs are far more accurate than his Fiat junk, and whilst he sits there assuming he's doing a certain speed, he almost certainly isn't. If there is a coach, or a HGV following you for mile after mile with no opportunity to overtake they are likely to get more than a little p*ssed off that you are not making sufficient progress as my old HGV instructor used to say, they are trying to do an extremely demanding job of work, day in, day out, not going off on their occasional jollies (!) Well Joe No one can say that your response is bland or lacking in clarity As I understand your comments you assert or imply :- 1. That I think my driving is perfect and 2. That I base my speed on my speedometer . In the interests of balance I think I need to give you more information. In fact I have no view on my standard of driving that being a matter for other skilled and informed persons to assess (something which could only be done by observation) . For what it is worth . I have driven about 80,000miles in different MH all over Europe and the UK and throughout my life made an effort to maintain my driving skills including receiving police civilian advanced driving training on several occasions and training from an LGV instructor in my motorhome. You have correctly quoted the speedometer requirements contained in the C&U Regulations 1986 (Amendments in the 2015 regulations are not relevant here) and indeed I have observed that the speedometer on my vehicle a SEVEL but not a FIAT significantly over-reads. That is why I use my sat-nav as a speedo giving me large digital display unaffected by parallax and until recently my vehicle had two sat-navs the factory fitted one and my garmin both of which showed very similar speeds. The essence of police driver training is to make progress and the tools for doing so include extended observation to the front and rear to assist awareness of other road users and predict their actings. However you will note that my observation was not directed at conflict between myself and LGVs but a hypothetical question about the safety of LGV driving practices. In fact the answers given do afford some interesting explanation as to why LGV drive as they do. Still doesn't make the driving safe but that is a different question. I do have a problem with the way coaches are sometimes driven and I consider that I am entitled not to be tailgated irrespective of the speed I am travelling at. The passengers on the bus definitely have a right to be driven safely (irrespective of the actings of other road users) and tailgating cannot be consistent with that right. The speed of the vehicle in front (the tailgatee) is governed by several factors bloodyminded obstructive driving and/or incompetently low speed being fairly far down the list. You quote "your old HGV instructor" so I will quote my old police driving instructor on how to deal with tailgaters. The advice was to reduce your speed to match the safe braking distance of the gap between your vehicle and the vehicle behind. I am not sure that that advice is good in modern driving conditions and it is not something I practice. I hope these comments assist you in understanding my post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe90 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 I am a former HGV class one holder, and PSV holder, in later life a Hackney carriage driver, millions of miles under my belt.....what does that prove, very little, except I passed competency tests at the time, despite all the training and wealth of driving experience I wouldn't put myself up as being anyone qualified to access other drivers, one thing I cannot stand is someone who does, although you profess you do not do so, and yet you have done exactly that with your wide assertion with your original post. To quote Brian Kirby, my advice would be the same as his Just mind your own business, drive your own vehicle, and get out of the way of others doing likewise, and the world will be a better and safer place ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HymerVan Posted August 3, 2015 Author Share Posted August 3, 2015 I think you have completely missed the point but I can see nothing to be gained by further debating with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 How can I get a message to the pillock driving the lorry that the reason I am going so slow is that he is tailgaiting so close? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Den - 2015-08-02 10:15 PM The later ones may do 12-13 mpg, but when in a slip stream this will increase by 2-3 mpg. May I ask where you got that figure from? There won't be much of a slipstream behind a car. The vacuum sucking the lorry back will be a greater force than the pressure at the front because the back is less aerodynamic. You still have all the turbulence around the chassis and wheels. And since the driver will have to continually adjust speed to keep close that must add to fuel consumption? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Collings Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Usually speaking its possible to break the magnetic force between you and to tailgater by gently varying your speed up and down. It gives the impression you are not concentrating . Most get fed up and back off a bit . I was in the wrong job to do it but on a road narrow enough to stop them going around you I was always tempted to gently stop and go back to the tailgating driver and ask if he understood what his vehicle would do to mine if I had to make an emergency stop, then demonstrate Mr Newtons law to him with a straight right to the nose. But then as we say in darkest Devon you can't educate pork so whats the point and I am too old now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe90 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Peter James - 2015-08-03 9:31 PM How can I get a message to the pillock driving the lorry that the reason I am going so slow is that he is tailgaiting so close? He's a pillock, so you go slower, here's a top tip, pull over and let him pass, you'll have no one behind you then except other pillocks, as once again your the only one on the road who doesn't consider himself a pillock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyExsis Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 I would like to apologise to all those Truckers who tailgated me in the first couple of years of my ownership of my Exsis when I proudly stuck to a speedometer reading of 60mph and enjoyed a fantastic fuel economy I then discovered from 'the Exsis owners forum' that there was an optional factory recall that neither Fiat or the dealer told me about, to rectify a faulty speedo that was reading slow (about 10%) I usually drive nearer to 70mph and avoid the queue and still enjoy a good mpg in my slippery Exsis It is a bind when they hold the middle lane as they slowly overhaul a slightly slower lorry, but I can understand why they do it (lots of car drivers are worse) I'm with Brian on this one-our roads are busy and I'm one of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Peter James - 2015-08-03 9:31 PM How can I get a message to the pillock driving the lorry that the reason I am going so slow is that he is tailgaiting so close? Honest answer Peter? Apply a little welly to exceed his (limited) speed, then you can stop annoying each other. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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