insurance for importing motorhome

[euroanchor]

Myself and a friend have just returned from Germany, where we each bought a second hand Hymer, we are back off next week to collect and have found that our current insurers, Motor caravan Wise,01425 280078. will insure the M/Home on the VIN plate details for 14 days, this will allow us to drive back and get them registered. this means the vans will be fully insured for our journey. They are also very competitive on the premiums, I pay £250 comp and my mate has just took out his policy @ £330 comp he has 4 years NCB and is 35. Caravan wise give a good intro discount to new customers who cannot transfer NCB, the policy also gives unlimited european cover. And no, I dont work for them, I'm just a happy customer.

[smifee]

hi euroanchor have you got it in writing that they cover you outside the uk before it has been registered in the uk? when i last imported i could not get insurance cover for the journey from the dealer in belgium to the tunnel terminal. i got over this by the dealer driving it there on trade plates. my understanding is that uk insurers can't insure on vin number outside the uk. there have been numerous posts on various MH websites where people were told by insurers that they would cover them but when the insurers were asked to put it in writing they all refused. i have read a post by someone who has done a lot more research on this than i have and the regulations are due to change next year which will allow vin number cover to be EU wide. good luck with the imports. hope all goes well. mike

[Mel E]

There is technically no reason why UK insurers cannot give you the Comprehensive element of the cover. However, as EU Law (that applies in all EU countries) currently stands, they cannot provide the Third Party element of the cover. This is because they are not bonded to do so in the country of the vehicle's registration. To be legal you MUST obtain Third Party cover from your German dealer - it normally comes as a package with the vehicle plates. As Smifee mentions, there is a proposal to change these restrictions, but it has not yet happened. I have checked this with the Motor Insurers Bureau and they told me that, if a claim is made against you while you are abroad (or you need to make a claim), the underwriting insurer would almost certainly refuse to pay and you would have to rely on your broker's Professional Indemnity Insurance. And, of course, if you did have an accident, without valid Third Party Insurance you would be in real trouble!

[betsy]

Hi, My experience (bought Hymer from Germany)was the same as Mike's. Some companies that I asked for a quote told me whilst the policy would be comprehensive in UK, that first journey from the German dealer to Dover the cover would only be third party with the fully comp kicking in thereafter (for so many days until MOT'd and registered - which is no problem as long as you sort the headlamps, rear fog lights and speedo etc). I was advised by a friend in the insurance business that he could not see how a UK company could cover a foreign van in a foreign country which is what it boils down to. Probably like yourself, I also enquired of a couple of those UK based "dealers" who offer imported c'vans at continental prices - for obvious reasons they both tried to tell me that you cannot get cover for that first journey. In the end I drove it back, very carefully, relying on the temp German plates which the German seller obtains for you that are supposed to give you basic third party cover. Good luck! If I were changing vans I would go back to Germany/France and do the same thing again. Regards Betsy

[Brian Kirby]

It seems the legal technicalities have now been resolved and, from June 2007, it will be possible for UK insurers to issue fully comp cover on foreign registered vans being imported to UK for a limited period.  This will provide full normal cover for the whole of the journey home (except possibly while on the ferry or shuttle, but that's another story). 

However, just because it will be legally possible doesn't mean it will actually be possible to buy the insurance.  We'll just have to await the insurance companies' responses to see what we are, actually, able to buy.  If they won't play ball and offer the cover, we'll remain in much the same boat as we're in now.  However, indications are that some, at least, are being constructive - but no-one will commit before the new regs come into force.

However, I gather the extent of cover provided with the German temp plates is purely third party.  There is no fire cover and no theft cover.  The insurance purely covers you for your liability to other people or property.  Damage to you or your vehicle is not covered at all.

Safe home!

[euroanchor]

To sort out any confusion by my post, we will have the 5 day cover on the German plate,this has been arranged by the dealer at no cost to myself, the dealer (Hermann Caravans) would normally have to pay to get the van MOT'd and an emission certificate issued if he sold it to a German customer, this would cost him about 70-80 euros, as we dont need that, (even thought the exact same checks are done)he pays the cost of the temporary plate which includes the insurance. Caravan wise have given us comp cover using just the vin plate details,this cover will then be ammended when we register the vans on British plates.within 14 days (insurers conditions, not DVLA) There is no law to say that UK based companies cannot give you cover, it's just that most choose not to, when you think about it,there is no difference between driving on German plates or driving on Uk plates, its the driver that bears the risk factor, not the spacing of letters or the design of the number plate. The British public have a terrible habit of rolling over and accepting whatever insurance brokers tell us, they (the insurance brokers)soon change their tune when you tell them you will take your (and possible other potential customers) business elsewhere.Most policies are underwritten by the few major insurers, its the brokers who need to compete for your business. My policy with Caravan wise is underwritten by Lloyds and is virtually identical to my brother in laws,(except he hasn't got unlimited European travel) his however is with another broker, he paid nearly double the premium I do for the same cover. when he told his insurers he was not renewing his policy and told them the reasons, they matched my premium, so it goes to show . You can never have too much insurance cover, if you are bringing a van over, get as much as possible, we have been lucky in that our insurers have agreed to provide cover,yours might not, so check first.

[enodreven]

Hi,euroanchor Sounds like great news ? have you got writtern confirmation from your insurance company stating clearly that they are providing this cover, as i am sure it will be very helpful to others ?

[euroanchor]

will get back onto them and let you know the outcome.

[Mel E]

Euroanchor, In fact there is a law that prevents UK insurers providing Third Party (TP) cover for vehicles registered in another country. This law applies throughout the EU. In order to be able to offer TP cover in any country, the Insurance Company must be a member of that country's Bonding Scheme. The one in the UK is run by the Motor Insurers Bureau and any company offering TP cover to UK registered vehicles MUST, by law, contribute to it. It pays out for accidents caused by uninsured drivers and currently represents some 10% of your motor insurance policy premium. The same applies throughout the EU, though it's worth noting that the percentage of uninsured drivers is much higher in the UK than almost anywhere else! It is clearly not worthwhile for UK insurers to pay the minimum bonding fees in other countries just for a few personal imports, so they don't bother. It's worth noting that this problem all arose when the EU relaxed restrictions about 5 years' ago to enable Insurance Companies to offer cross-border insurance. They had been liberally doing so on VIN numbers for personal imports, but the new rules - which were meant to make it all a lot easier - had the reverse effect by highlighting to insurers the need to belong to bonding schemes. HOWEVER, the situation with the extra element of insurance above Third Party that is included in our 'Comprehensive' policies is completely different. This extra element enables you to make a claim as the Principal Party for damage caused to yourself or your vehicle either by yourself or by an unidentifiable Third Party (e.g., damage to your car in a Car Park, damage to your car AND you when you fail to make a corner and run into a ditch, etc.). This is simply a contract between you and the Insurance Company, no bonding is involved and, if they want to do so, and Insurance Company can offer such cover to you on any vehicle anywhere in the world. But to be legal anywhere, your TP cover must be issued in the country of vehicle registration. As Brian says, there is a proposal to alter this, but whether Insurance Companies will want to take on the extra admin load is very doubtful. Be aware that there is a difference between the Broker and the Insurer. Almost all motorhome contracts are written by Brokers such as Comfort, Safeguard, Bakers, Caravan Guard, etc. The underwriter or insurer is the one carrying the risk and there are only about 4 companies doing so for motorhomes - Aviva, through its Norwich Union Brand is probably the biggest. Hope that clarifies these rather muddy waters.

[Bill]

If you can possibly find a suitable address, I think it would make a great deal of sense to register (and therefore insure) the vehicle outside the UK.

[Brian Kirby]

Provided you can read, and understand, the forms, of course.  Gruss Gott!

[euroanchor]

[QUOTE]Mel E - 2006-11-01 10:28 AM Euroanchor, In fact there is a law that prevents UK insurers providing Third Party (TP) cover for vehicles registered in another country. .[/QUOTE] Mel E As you felt the need to name me personally at the beginning of your reply, your statement was directed towards myself as opposed to making a general observation to everybody who may have been reading the thread, with that in mind, I feel the need to tell you that I hold an International certificate of professional competance (CPC) in road transport,which involves a detailed knowledge of European road law and the insurances and laws required and involved therein. I also regularly send my lorries abroad, whilst you may be confident that the imformation you have provided is 100% correct, the fact is, it has probably caused more confusion than was allready present, So, again I would ask people to read my posts properly so as to avoid confusion. I/we HAVE SECURED the legally required 3rd party insurance with the German authorities,this is included with the temporary (5 day) registration plates. As stated, My insurers have agreed to provide cover for the vehicle and myself from the time I collect it,this cover being comprehensive will cover the vehicle for any damage as a result of theft or accident, nowhere in my posting do I say they are replacing the 3rd party cover I allready have. So finally to everybody reading this............ My original posting was intended to provide the details of a broker who has agreed to offer me and a friend cover for a vehicle that has not yet been issued with a UK registration, dozens of people have made postings asking for such details, and hopefully they will benefit from it ,feel free to call them, if you dont want or need to , then dont. there is no need to try to lecture me or anybody else about various laws, leave that to the companies who I or you will actually make the contract with. If this reply seems a bit snotty, then so be it, but I am getting fed up of wasting my time posting,what I considered to be useful (and requested) information, only to find that the world and his wife are ready to shoot it down and cast doubt, to my mind this is not what the forum is supposed to be about,

[Bill]

[QUOTE]Brian Kirby - 2006-11-02 12:00 AM Provided you can read, and understand, the forms, of course.  Gruss Gott![/QUOTE] Brian, I agree, language is a problem. Certainly, in the only EU country of which I have any knowledge, Portugal, you defintely need an agent who speaks both fluent English and fluent Portuguese. Fortunately there are plenty of such people around. Obviously you have to pay for their service, but it is worth it: road tax 90% cheaper than the UK, insurance much cheaper too, and none of this b/s about named drivers we have to put up with. Theoretically the usual rule applies, you can't go to another EU country for more than 6 months, but in practice with unguarded border crossings all over the place how can they check?

[smifee]

hi eurowanchor i didn't recognise the name on your first post but i sure recognised it when i read your 'snotty' post. you just aren't a forum person are you? please don't waste any more of your valuable time posting because when others try to stop beginners taking your posts at face value you'll only throw teddy out of the pram won't you? i still hope your import goes well though mike

[euroanchor]

[QUOTE]smifee - 2006-11-02 5:20 PM hi eurowanchor i didn't recognise the name on your first post but i sure recognised it when i read your 'snotty' post. you just aren't a forum person are you? please don't waste any more of your valuable time posting because when others try to stop beginners taking your posts at face value you'll only throw teddy out of the pram won't you? i still hope your import goes well though mike[/QUOTE] Mike, smifee or whatever you call yourself If you feel the need to launch another personal attack on me then at least have the good manners to spell my name right, as for your comment about not being a forum person, just exactly what is your definition of one ? from what I can gather, you mean putting your tuppence worth on every subject,regardless of whether you know what you are talking about or not. Beginners taking my post at face value ? Just who do you think you are, everybody's mother,get a life, I provided a phone number of a broker. whats wrong with that, look back on other threads, people have desperately been trying to find exactly that,just because you failed to obtain cover yourself, you felt the need to undermine somebody who had, As for throwing my teddy out,I would expect a comment like that from my grandaughter. Ref your whole post, actually you are nearly right, I dont like it when people blatantly post what amount to personal digs, but you just dont like it when people have a different point of view from yours, and yes what time I have at the moment is VERY valuable, You should be very carefull making comments like that when you know nothing about the person you direct them at. Mel E made a couple of points that were valid and warranted clarifying, i.e that we had allready obtained 3rd party cover from the German authorities and that the extra cover would in the event of an incident, cover the damage to my van.However, and I doubt very much that it was intentional, his reply came across as patronising because it was addressed to me, and not to the forum as a whole. I have no doubt that judging by his detailed answer, that he has taken the time to find out facts before he replied. Your last post however does not come into this catagory and therefore should be treated with the respect it deserves, i.e none at all. I've been driving motorhomes for 30 years and have mixed well with nearly everyone i've met, but since using this forum I am starting to realise that more and more motorhomers are becoming snobs,know it alls and worse,there is a uptrend of armchair experts who obviously have nothing better to do with their time other than to scan every thread so as to add a posting.Me, I tend to add to a thread when I think what I know may help other people, I dont answer a post by saying "actually (insert name) you are wrong blah blah blah, if I am 100% certain somebody has made a mistake on something important, I will email them and point it out, If they then have no objection I will post the information. A forum person, If everybody is like you mate, I'd rather not be one.

[enodreven]

Hi,euroanchor Have you had any luck in obtaining written confirmation yet, as while i understand what some people are saying surely if you can obtain a detailed statement of the cover the company is giving then surely it doesn't matter ? if anything goes wrong and the insurance company/broker tries to refuses to payout you will have clear evidence to be able to sue them if necessary?? "A Verbal Statement isn't worth the paper its printed on" Earlier post ? Sounds like great news ? have you got written confirmation from your insurance company stating clearly that they are providing this cover, as i am sure it will be very helpful to others ? -----

[Mel E]

euroanchor, Ooops!! Here I am addressing a response personally again! We all do that on the forum when we want to refer to a point raised by a specific poster. I was certainly not intending to upset you in any way at all, but merely to add to what you said, as much for the benefit of others treading this path as for you. If I pick out just a couple of points from your post: 1. You said you had cover with the German plate; nowhere did you clarify that this was Third Party only. 2. I agreed with you that there is nothing to prevent UK-based insurers giving Comprehensive cover abroad PROVIDED you don't use the Third Party element and have foreign TP cover. 3. You said there is nothing in law to prevent UK insurers giving cover abroad. This is simply not true for the Third Party element and I was anxious to clarify this. I really was not trying to get at you and what I posted certainly did not warrant the lengthy diatribe you responded with. One of the problems of electronic communication - both forum posting and email - is that it has enabled us all to go off the deep end without considering either the effect of what we are writing on the recipient of whether we really want to write it at all. There should be a cooling off period between getting irritated by a post/email and responding to it. Try re-reading what I posted and you will see that there is no 'personal attack' or anything similar in it. Cartainly nothing to warrant the personal attack you responded with!!

[euroanchor]

Point taken and no offence meant, there have been dozens of posts about this very matter and it has been stated so many times that you will only receive 3rd party cover on the German plates, that I didnt think it neccessary to state that again, when I said that UK insurers can provide cover but choose not to, I was refering to additional cover and not 3rd party road risk,maybe I didnt make it clear enough. It is never my intention to insult or annoy anybody, and yes as you said, the very fact that coversations are held electronically as opposed to face to face, means that misinterpretation can and does often occur, you cant tell a tongue in cheek remark from an insult unless the poster uses emoticons, that said, the comments made by smifee need no interpretation whatsoever and I would not in any circumstance appologise for the reply I gave. Forums very quickly go downhill when insults start getting posted and threads get hijacked all the time and go off subject. I gave what I thought to be usefull contact details to the members of this forum, whether they choose to use that information is a personal matter, and is of no concern or business of mine or anyone else,the details of the contract they enter into with the broker are determined by circumstance and not the personal experiences of other members, smifee states he couldn't get cover, I did , end of story, no need for me to gloat, no need for him to add negative views that might put people off trying to obtain insurance themselves. Thats where I come from, and stick to the old addage of "if you havn't got anything positive to add to a conversation, butt out" you might not like what I say, I dont agree with everything else others might say, but I keep my comments to myself unless I genuinely believe them to be usefull.

[euroanchor]

[QUOTE]enodreven - 2006-11-03 9:35 AM Hi,euroanchor Have you had any luck in obtaining written confirmation yet, as while i understand what some people are saying surely if you can obtain a detailed statement of the cover the company is giving then surely it doesn't matter ? if anything goes wrong and the insurance company/broker tries to refuses to payout you will have clear evidence to be able to sue them if necessary?? "A Verbal Statement isn't worth the paper its printed on" Earlier post ? Sounds like great news ? have you got written confirmation from your insurance company stating clearly that they are providing this cover, as i am sure it will be very helpful to others ? ----- [/QUOTE] Hi Enodreven I sent them a fax requesting written confirmation of the cover given and (if) when I get an answer, Ill try to scan and post the copy.

[enodreven]

Hi, euroanchor, Thanks we await their reply ?? Brian [QUOTE]euroanchor - 2006-11-03 10:53 AM [QUOTE]enodreven - 2006-11-03 9:35 AM Hi,euroanchor Have you had any luck in obtaining written confirmation yet, as while i understand what some people are saying surely if you can obtain a detailed statement of the cover the company is giving then surely it doesn't matter ? if anything goes wrong and the insurance company/broker tries to refuses to payout you will have clear evidence to be able to sue them if necessary?? "A Verbal Statement isn't worth the paper its printed on" Earlier post ? Sounds like great news ? have you got written confirmation from your insurance company stating clearly that they are providing this cover, as i am sure it will be very helpful to others ? ----- [/QUOTE] Hi Enodreven I sent them a fax requesting written confirmation of the cover given and (if) when I get an answer, Ill try to scan and post the copy.[/QUOTE]

[smifee]

hi euroanchor my apologies for the typo with your name. who put the W & A so close together on the keyboard(lol) most of the information i've got from forums comes from the follow up posts. the initial post doesn't usually go into every little detail. contributors then pick up on the details that they either know something about or want to know something about. for some reason you seem to regard these posts as an attack on you if they question your opinion on the subject. it is only as a result of the follow up posts that i now know that to get full cover when importing i need to get 2 policies. someone new to MHing who had decided to import could read your initial post and think they would be fully covered by taking a policy with the broker you named. the same applies to the only other post of yours that i can remember - the cheap MH cover. caravanners & MHers have told me of problems they've had with covers and the follow up posts pointed those out for the benefit of all. a forum person, in my opinion, takes these posts in the spirit in which they are intended, realises that readers of their posts range from the expert to the know nothing and responds to follow up posts accordingly. i hope the confirmation from the broker comes through ok and the imports go smoothly. thanks for the info. mike *-) *-)

[Brian Kirby]

I'll risk just one further comment on this topic.  Fools rush in etc. etc!

Mark has his third party cover with his German plates.  All well and good and as it should be.  Presumably this insurance will, in effect, be supplanted by the third party element of this UK insurance when his 'van gets to UK.

His UK broker has agreed fully comp insurance on the van, and issued this on the 'van's VIN.  The broker has also agreed that all elements of his fully comp insurance - other than the third party element - will apply while the vehicle is outside the UK as well as after it has reached UK.  This is a very constructive offer.

However, I do think it may be a rather unorthodox arrangement, and none the worse for that, that may possibly reflect the amount of insurance business Mark conducts with that broker. 

It will, therefore, be interesting to hear how others fare, because when I  suggested a similar arrangement to insure our own 'van for import, I got the bum's rush.  If anyone else "tries this at home", do please let us know how you get on.

I hope Mark won't think I'm arguing with him, but I do wonder if everyone else will find his arrangement quite so easy to arrive at.  If they do, then my hat's off to all concerned for a very neat fix to a perennial problem.

[euroanchor]

Well I,m Just off to the airport to fly out and collect the van. everything Brian said seems to be how it has happened, My brokers, Caravan wise are underwritten by NIG, who, somebody else has commented that they will indeed provide comp insurance for the vehicle whilst overseas on foreign plates, however, their brokers were reluctant to give this in writing (I,m not sure if it was this forum or MHF) anyway, when I asked Caravan Wise for written confirmation, they said they would issue a 14 day cover note with the vans vin number and summary of cover, which they have done. So I now have proof of cover. I now have 14 days to get the van home,MOT'd and registered so as to ammend the details on the policy. Obviously individual circumstances will apply to others,so dont take it as the norm, I've been lucky in that my broker gives this type of cover, some others dont. The yearly policy cost me £325 which includes unlimited overseas travel on a van valued @ 23k It goes without saying that the liability cover which is supplied by the German authorities along with the temporary (5 days in my case)registration, is mandatory, because the van would not have plates,and you wont get far without them, PS My other Hymer is now up for sale if anybody wants a 1993 B564, LHD, T&T,scooter rack,towbar,aircon etc £14950.00 ono

[enodreven]

Hi, euroanchor I think this topic can be talked about over and over again, the main thing in my opinion is getting the offer in writing and I know "euroanchor" you faxed them, I just wonder have you had a reply to your fax yet, as i and I'm sure a lot of other people will be very interested to see a written response Thanks Brian

[Mel E]

I'm glad it has worked out OK. I should add that others have asked CaravanWise and been turned down under similar circumstances. C'est la vie! To avoid upsetting you I'd better make clear that the rest of this post is for the benefit of others treading this path. As I've said before, there is nothing to prevent UK insurers giving the non-Third Party cover bit on foreign-registered vehicles. Most do not. If, however, you get such cover, be aware that what it means depends on how your insurers react to any accident. If you have an accident that is caused by someone else, then you are the Third Party and it's the other person's TP cover you claim against. If such an accident happens in the UK, the normal process is to contact your own insurers with the details and they will get your vehicle repaired and claim off the other's insurers - or pay up themselves if they have a knock-for-knock agreement with them. Damage to yourself or your passengers may well involve the use of solicitors, and that will normally be paid for by your own insurance or your 'uninsured loss' cover. However, if such an accident happens abroad, then you must claim against the guilty party's TP cover, and, presumably, your UK insurers will handle this for you under normal circumstances. Hopefully they will also do so if you have temporary non-TP cover as in Euroanchor's case. Frankly, I'm not sure what they would do! But if you cause the accident, the real complication of having two insurers begins to take effect. The claims of the other motorists affected - and your own passenger, for that matter - are Third Party claims against your German TP cover. Only damage to your own vehicle and to yourself as driver is covered by the UK insurer. Will they be as willing to help you process these claims as they would if the whole thing were UK based or on a UK registered vehicle? Frankly, again, I don't know. For anyone treading this path, please don't have an accident, whether your fault or someone else's