Rayjsj Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Don636 - 2015-08-23 7:26 PM I must admit I just do not understand the statement that British motorhomes are stuck in the past with caravan style layouts. By caravan layout I assume you mean a motorhome with twin settees that convert into a bed, a decent sized kitchen with good cooking facilities and a decent washroom. What on earth is wrong with having the same layout in a motorhome? This layout works very well and makes good use of the available space with great feet up lounging and a big comfy bed. Don't give me all that rubbish about a jigsaw of cushions as the better manfacturers execute this very well. The continental style layout seems to be all about trying to provide a permanent bed and a dining table and a lot of storage. Trouble is this tends to make everything compromised and cramped. The dinettes all seem to be upright cramped affairs with huge tables that get in the way. What is wrong with wanting a bit of comfort? The kitchens are a joke. I have seen huge A-class motorhomes with hardly any worktop to speak of - how on earth do you prepare anything or do they just eat out all the time or live on microwaved food? Some of the continental style PVCs even have the bathroom in the middle of the van because there is so little room left after squeezing in a double bed and dinette. What a faff having to slide all these doors about then mop up the middle of the van. As for the wonderful storage areas, most of the continental style PVCs I have seen you need to lift up the bed to get at the cupboards underneath and what do you do if this area is jam packed with all the stuff you feel you need to fill this with? It strikes me that the continental layout is more like tent camping with your bed made up, a basic, cramped kitchen, a picnic table and an annex full of stuff. When camping you hope yo spend most of the time outdoors so what is inside is not really important, apart from the bed. Well us traditional Brits want something a bit better than tent camping in a box, we want some luxury and space to sprawl out in, especially if the weather is not so good outside. We also want a decent kitchen and some home from home comforts and some warm inviting furnishings and decor. Lounging, not camping. . My feelings exactly. Not knocking their quality, as I have never owned one, never seen one that I could live with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don636 Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 I agree with the comment about vans being built down to a price. I also believe that a lot of continental PVCs, and some UK ones, such as the Autotrail V- Line, are largely made up of pre-fabricated units screwed together by less skilled assemblers, which leads to lots of visible fixings and wiring. The units themselves are often built on plastic frames with no backs and the fancy curved doors seem to be built out of balsa wood, they are so lightweight. The UK specialist van converters like our Vantage van still rely on more traditional hand built methods which are more substantial. The Vantage cabinets in particular are all assembled by hand in-house the same way the furniture in your house is made and the fixings are all hidden from view. I was out this weekend and looked at some PVCs and motorhomes, both UK and continenttal land they all suffered from examples of very lightweight build quality with lots of faults and broken bits, and this is in the showroom! The Autotrail V-Line that I saw had its entire internal lining to ceiling and walls made from preformed plastic moulded panels that are simply screwed into place with the units fitted on top. It looks superficially slick and modern to the inexperienced and will no doubt pull the punters in with its modern styling but probe deeper and it is plasticky and insubstantial and looks cold to me. This type of finish is common in continental vans, no doubt because it can be manufactured down to a price and requires less skilled labour to fix in place. I know that lots of people seem to like this stark 'automotive' look but it is not for me. Our hand built van has softer internal panelling with a mix of padded panels and felt (or carpet as some people call it but not sure why as it is not carpet material). This makes for a warmer feel, important on the UK climate. I prefer the hand built type of van you can get in the UK rather than the large factory built continental vans that have far less substantial build quality as a result. Some continental vans may have better winterisation but ours has coped with sub zero temperatures no problem and with no condensation or freezing waterworks. Just how much cold weather capacity do you need? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Dwight Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 We have looked at Continental vans when we have been over the other side of the ditch, well if you want plastic interiors and no lounging space, three burner hobs etc, so be it. I the British vans are rubbish why are they in such a demand in Australia and NZ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Mark-kelly - 2015-08-23 4:57 PM The strongest economy in Europe.. GERMANY !!!! I wonder why ??? Again I'm not saying the English are rubbish at manufacturing anything I'm just advising people who are coming into motor homes that German Built campers are far superior to English vans. The next 5/10 years will show how bad these English vans are because I'm seeing rotten vans at three years old and getting repaired under warranty. Anyone with an ounce of sense knows a bmw, Mercedes, porsche, vw are a little better built and a higher quality than a Ford, Hyundai,Vauxhall same thing applies to campers love it or hate it Germany produce the best Blimey, you really do live in your own little world don't you. As for Germany building the best when they wanted a F1 engine built, indeed a complete F1 car, they had to come to the UK to get it done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 David Dwight - 2015-08-23 8:53 PM We have looked at Continental vans when we have been over the other side of the ditch, well if you want plastic interiors and no lounging space, three burner hobs etc, so be it. I the British vans are rubbish why are they in such a demand in Australia and NZ? Three burner hobs, most I have looked at only have two. (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malo37 Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Being new to this motor homing business I find the reviews by Out & About etc to be fairly pathetic and little more than talking brochures. There is no critique of the drivability, performance on the road, fuel consumption etc and little or no comment on the actual quality of fixtures and fittings internally. Useless. I expect the 'reviewers' or at least the publications etc they work for are scared of criticising their regular advertisers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe90 Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Perhaps that's why a French van has been voted Motorhome of the year here in the UK, :D Like so many experts they obviously don't know what they are talking about..... a French van indeed. I wonder who makes mine, it must be British as it has an oven. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 pelmetman - 2015-08-23 8:25 PM Bulletguy - 2015-08-23 8:17 PM Even Hymer now build down to price and i remember reading somewhere that a used older model Hymer (forget what year) could easily sell for more than a late model one. I expect that's due to this Euro nonsense as they're becoming so complicated and unreliable, that they'll become too expensive to repair in very short order 8-) .............Imagine paying a grand for a headlight to get your van through its MOT :D ............. Going backwards is the new progress eh (lol) Some folk seem perfectly happy with that (bib). As the well known saying goes, "a fool and his money are easily parted". Don636 - 2015-08-23 8:47 PM I agree with the comment about vans being built down to a price. I also believe that a lot of continental PVCs, and some UK ones, such as the Autotrail V- Line, are largely made up of pre-fabricated units screwed together by less skilled assemblers, which leads to lots of visible fixings and wiring. The units themselves are often built on plastic frames with no backs and the fancy curved doors seem to be built out of balsa wood, they are so lightweight. The UK specialist van converters like our Vantage van still rely on more traditional hand built methods which are more substantial. The Vantage cabinets in particular are all assembled by hand in-house the same way the furniture in your house is made and the fixings are all hidden from view. A few years ago i was on a site next to an 'unusual' German neighbour. Unusual in that he completely bucked the trend of most Germans with their juggernauts, often only accommodating a couple. This guy had a VW.......converted by a specialist in Shrewsbury....just 25 miles away from where i live! All the interior fittings were superb quality too. rupert123 - 2015-08-23 10:07 PM Mark-kelly - 2015-08-23 4:57 PM The strongest economy in Europe.. GERMANY !!!! I wonder why ??? Again I'm not saying the English are rubbish at manufacturing anything I'm just advising people who are coming into motor homes that German Built campers are far superior to English vans. The next 5/10 years will show how bad these English vans are because I'm seeing rotten vans at three years old and getting repaired under warranty. Anyone with an ounce of sense knows a bmw, Mercedes, porsche, vw are a little better built and a higher quality than a Ford, Hyundai,Vauxhall same thing applies to campers love it or hate it Germany produce the best Blimey, you really do live in your own little world don't you. As for Germany building the best when they wanted a F1 engine built, indeed a complete F1 car, they had to come to the UK to get it done. Exactly but many folk lose sight of this fact. As i mentioned previously, all WRC cars are modified and built at Prodrive in Banbury, each one costing in excess of a million to complete. Germany is no different to any other in that all it's leisure vehicle market is now built down to a price. Matters not how much it's cost, it will be of inferior or lower quality than the same model purchased 10 years back. Why else are older model Hymers fetching more money than late model ones? Take a look at this video documentary. It's NOT about a factory in Germany, but in Woking......overseen by an ultra fanatical CEO with OTD syndrome (Obssession To Detail). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeco Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Being a right hand drive country with no close access to a LHD country like you have we can purchase either UK or locally manufactured motorhomes so that we can have the hab door on the near side of the vehicle. Most of the MH's sold here are built on Fiat, Iveco, VW ,Trannies & MB. There are however some locally built on Japanese cab/chassis. These tend to be Mitsubishi or Toyota. There are also lots of 20 seat bus conversions such as Toyota Coasters. It is interesting that the popular feeling here is that the English MH's are no sufficiently robust to cope with our indifferent quality road surfaces. So far our experience with the Auto-trail we own has not justified that concern. It seems from what I have read on this forum and others is that damp is the biggest concern in UK where as that tends not to be even considered here as an issue. That is no doubt due to the difference in climate. I am reading about a developing market in China for MH's to satisify a demand from the "emerging middle class". Maybe in 5 years time we will be debating the strengths & weaknesses of Euro/UK vs China. Watch this space!!Cheers, Gary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Lewis Hamilton wins again, British driver in British built car, admit it has German badge on it, perhaps they made this bit. (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
campervanista Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 :D Some years ago a German friend visited us in his camper and needed to borrow some tools to adjust something on his bike. During the conversation he explained to me that the German word for an adjustable spanner is .... ein Englander! Make of that what you will. Ron Pharo :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 pelmetman - 2015-08-23 4:45 PM Had a interesting conversation with a breakdown operative a few weeks back, whilst he relayed Fanny back to the menders :D ......... Apparently he reckoned the most unreliable vehicle on the road is a ........BMW (lol) ..... Maybe German reliability is another myth I should start a thread on >:-) ......... You could try asking my eldest son about BMWs but I'd rather you didn't it tends to bring back a whole host of bad memories and he tends to get very upset! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Mark-kelly - 2015-08-23 4:57 PM The strongest economy in Europe.. GERMANY !!!! I wonder why ??? Again I'm not saying the English are rubbish at manufacturing anything I'm just advising people who are coming into motor homes that German Built campers are far superior to English vans. The next 5/10 years will show how bad these English vans are because I'm seeing rotten vans at three years old and getting repaired under warranty. Anyone with an ounce of sense knows a bmw, Mercedes, porsche, vw are a little better built and a higher quality than a Ford, Hyundai,Vauxhall same thing applies to campers love it or hate it Germany produce the best I ran a small number of Mercs as part of our company fleet. Boy were they troublesome and also expensive to service and repair! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Don636 - 2015-08-23 8:47 PM I agree with the comment about vans being built down to a price. I also believe that a lot of continental PVCs, and some UK ones, such as the Autotrail V- Line, are largely made up of pre-fabricated units screwed together by less skilled assemblers, which leads to lots of visible fixings and wiring. The units themselves are often built on plastic frames with no backs and the fancy curved doors seem to be built out of balsa wood, they are so lightweight. The UK specialist van converters like our Vantage van still rely on more traditional hand built methods which are more substantial. The Vantage cabinets in particular are all assembled by hand in-house the same way the furniture in your house is made and the fixings are all hidden from view. I was out this weekend and looked at some PVCs and motorhomes, both UK and continenttal land they all suffered from examples of very lightweight build quality with lots of faults and broken bits, and this is in the showroom! The Autotrail V-Line that I saw had its entire internal lining to ceiling and walls made from preformed plastic moulded panels that are simply screwed into place with the units fitted on top. It looks superficially slick and modern to the inexperienced and will no doubt pull the punters in with its modern styling but probe deeper and it is plasticky and insubstantial and looks cold to me. This type of finish is common in continental vans, no doubt because it can be manufactured down to a price and requires less skilled labour to fix in place. I know that lots of people seem to like this stark 'automotive' look but it is not for me. Our hand built van has softer internal panelling with a mix of padded panels and felt (or carpet as some people call it but not sure why as it is not carpet material). This makes for a warmer feel, important on the UK climate. I prefer the hand built type of van you can get in the UK rather than the large factory built continental vans that have far less substantial build quality as a result. Some continental vans may have better winterisation but ours has coped with sub zero temperatures no problem and with no condensation or freezing waterworks. Just how much cold weather capacity do you need? We were impressed by Vantage convertions but what put us off was that for any warrenty, service or,repair work they insisted they had to be returned to their factory which for,us living in Kent ruled them out. Had they been able arrange for,such work to be carried out by a company in the southeast we may well have bought one from them but despite my finding a good company that could,carry out such work for them they would simply not agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydney1 Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Based purely on my own experience, Purchased new Burstner following suggestions build quality was better than British - leaked like a sieve Purchased new Autotrail - No leaks. 10 year warranty, very happy with build quality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 I feel quite fortunate. I have a German motorhome with a Nissan engine. I have had no problems with: a. Judder when reversing up a slight incline. b. Egr valve c. Waterlogged engine due to a badly designed Scuttle. d. Clutch and DMF failure at low milage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 campervanista - 2015-08-24 11:14 AM :D Some years ago a German friend visited us in his camper and needed to borrow some tools to adjust something on his bike. During the conversation he explained to me that the German word for an adjustable spanner is .... ein Englander! Make of that what you will. Ron Pharo :-( I worked for a German company BASF, their computer division in the UK, but all of our training was done in Ludwigshaven, I came across this a few times, often being the only Englishman in a class of 15 Germans, but because I was there, the class had to be held in English,(so I was not popular anyway) although all of the manuals diagrams, etc., were in English. I pointed out to a sniggering German collegue that the 'ein Englander' was actually made in Germany, where the need for an adjustable spanner, was far greater! Ray German quality is greatly exaggerated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 I also can't see the value of a fixed table. Where is the sense in giving up all that valuable space to something you are only going to use for a very small proportion of the time. Our last two motor homes have had free standing tables. It takes less than thirty seconds to retrieve them from their storage slots and erect ready for use. What's more the same table can be used for eating outside. Our present van is an AutoSleeper Warwick XL we are delighted with the conversion quality and for us ideal layout. We are less than impressed with the Truma heating system and or quality of service they provide. True now it's had a new circuit board, fan and some other widget it seems much better but it still has its moments. We still carry a small oil filled rad because we don't trust it. We're not alone I've encountered several other who,have had similar problems. I'm at a lost to understand why this should be so after all the darn thing is manufactured in Germany. It does highlight the advantage of buying from a local dealer. Choose leisure near Canterbury have been brilliant in the help and service they have provided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Geeco - 2015-08-24 8:33 AMBeing a right hand drive country with no close access to a LHD country like you have we can purchase either UK or locally manufactured motorhomes so that we can have the hab door on the near side of the vehicle. Most of the MH's sold here are built on Fiat, Iveco, VW ,Trannies & MB. There are however some locally built on Japanese cab/chassis. These tend to be Mitsubishi or Toyota. There are also lots of 20 seat bus conversions such as Toyota Coasters. It is interesting that the popular feeling here is that the English MH's are no sufficiently robust to cope with our indifferent quality road surfaces. So far our experience with the Auto-trail we own has not justified that concern. It seems from what I have read on this forum and others is that damp is the biggest concern in UK where as that tends not to be even considered here as an issue. That is no doubt due to the difference in climate. I am reading about a developing market in China for MH's to satisify a demand from the "emerging middle class". Maybe in 5 years time we will be debating the strengths & weaknesses of Euro/UK vs China. Watch this space!!Cheers, Gary.A thought provoking post Gary. UK is well known for it's weather so i won't bang on anymore than i need to other than what happened to "summer"? :-( Our climate is an issue here for all caravans and motorhomes, but not PVC campers as they don't have any large outer grp paneling and seals to mither about.I was interested in your comment about your "indifferent quality road surfaces". Not sure just how 'indifferent' as i've never been to Oz but i think you'd be hard pressed to find much worse than roads in Albania which often 'disappear' into little more than a cart track! Even main roads can be bad. Just to add to the 'fun', as the road surface disappears....so do any form of sign posting so you can easily. I once drove 35 miles along one of these 'roads' thinking 'this doesn't feel right' as all form of civilisation had long been left behind and eventually the 'road' which by now had become a track, simply came to a dead end. Only Garmin gps works there and i had TT so was driving by road maps.Bulgaria is a bit better than Albania, but i'd never recommend driving at night in either country. However my van is a Transit PVC and took the punishment ok.In Albania i noticed all the Taxis were very old model Mercedes. A local chap who spoke very good English told me the reason why. Suspension! Apparently the late model Mercedes are built with softer suspension, totally unsuited for Albanian road surfaces, plus the strength and quality is better than that of late model Mercedes.A couple i met on a site i stayed on in Albania were from Australia. Really nice couple and we had a few beers together most days as the weather was just baking! The reason for the NL plate is her husband is Dutch and they leave their camper in Holland. The map on the bonnet is all the countries they have toured in.http://i.imgur.com/wNc94cK.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/MF6FkO6.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/VLVu072.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don636 Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Interesting comment about the Truma system, which I assume is a reference to the combined heating/hot water boiler. We have a Vantage van and when I originally saw one it had this type of unit but the one we have has separate units for heating and hot water and when I asked why the answer was that they found the newer combined unit to be too unreliable so went back to the old tried and tested system, which has not given us any problems. Seems this was a sound decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philbee Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 A dealer near Rushden has s/h motorhomes for sale.English vans 2-3 years old get 3-6 months warranty.8-9 year old foreign vans mainly get 3 years.Do they know something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donna miller Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 David Dwight - 2015-08-23 8:53 PM We have looked at Continental vans when we have been over the other side of the ditch, well if you want plastic interiors and no lounging space, three burner hobs etc, so be it. I the British vans are rubbish why are they in such a demand in Australia and NZ? Because they're right hand drive. *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Funnily enough, I have just been reading a thread on another motorhome forum about severe damp problems with motorhomes built using the latest ideas and technology. So good that they offered a 10 year warranty on their motorhomes. They are British vans. :-( My guess would be that the design will be OK. It will probably be the lack of Management expertise and lack of training for the workforce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 philbee - 2015-08-24 3:28 PM A dealer near Rushden has s/h motorhomes for sale.English vans 2-3 years old get 3-6 months warranty.8-9 year old foreign vans mainly get 3 years.Do they know something? Any Uk van that was 2 years old would have a year of manufacturer's warranty left on it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Geeco - 2015-08-24 8:33 AM. I am reading about a developing market in China for MH's to satisify a demand from the "emerging middle class". Maybe in 5 years time we will be debating the strengths & weaknesses of Euro/UK vs China. Watch this space!!Cheers, Gary.............or maybe not after today's news on the stock markets...............David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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