Air Suspension on Hymer MLT

[Twemlow]

It has been good to hear from someone else experiencing the same problem, which was what we hoped for when originally posting. Without other owners with the same problem we have been a voice in the wilderness.

We have been in repeated contact with the dealer - and so far have had no positive response but still await Hymer to come back again (how long do they have off for Christmas!).

We would not be prepared to go on a journey involving a ferry unless some modification is done to the motorhome to improve rear ground clearance, but do not want to go ahead with this until we have a definitive answer from Hymer.

It is now 66 days since we pointed out the problem to the dealer and another motorhome season fast approaches.

 

[Heidi 1]

Hi - we have just found this thread. We have exactly the same problem with our 2015 Hymer MLT 580. It grounds going over even minor speed humps. We are not overweight on the back axle - we have just been to a weighbridge. The back strap has ripped off coming out of a car park and the outer skin of the water tanks is severely damaged. We have had to cancel our hol as we cannot go on the ferry. We have ordered air suspension to be fitted in July as we can't think of any other solution, but it is a real worry as replacing the tanks if damaged is going to be very costly. We have not approached the dealer as we thought it was just our problem and we don't have a great deal of faith in the dealer anyway as we have been waiting for a year for them to sort out another issue. We think this is a design fault. We are not new to motorhoming and have had several coachbuilts before but not a Hymer. Has anyone got any further with dealers or Hymer please?

[Brian Kirby]

In principle, you have two potential routes to remedy.

 

The first is to rely on the Hymer warranty, and see what they offer. I'm assuming from your post that you did not buy your MLT new, as you seem to have allowed the supplying dealer a great deal of time to resolve your other issue. My first question, in that case, is - was the supplying dealer actually a Hymer dealership? If not, you may wish to take the van to a dealer who is, or even back to the dealer who supplied it to the original owner. You may also wish to contact the original owner to see why they sold their van on after such a relatively short period, in case the same thing happened to them and they lost faith in the vehicle. However, see below regarding your statutory rights vis-a-vis the warranty, and take advice before proceeding down either route.

 

The second is to forget about the warranty, and pursue the dealer who supplied the van to you for remedy under consumer legislation. If you do, I think it would be wise to also throw into the ring the outstanding defect you mention in your post. It will then be for the dealer to sort out his remedies direct with Hymer. The obvious problem will be the standard of work that may be executed by a dealer with a legal cosh held over him. Before doing this I would strongly advise speaking to Trading Standards or Citizen's Advice to get general guidance on where you stand legally, and what remedies you may have open to you. If you need actual legal representation you would be wise to turn to firms who specialise in that area, and you may find either TS or CA can give you a list of those who do. Possibly you may have an insurance that includes legal representation or advice within the policy. Many do.

 

However, do talk in person to the supplying dealer, preferably at senior management level, before launching any legal action, as your present experiences may simply represent the performance of a member of sales staff who isn't pulling his weight. You should give the boss a chance to call him to order: you may be surprised how things then change. :-) More will be achieved, more quickly, by working on your relationship with the firm than by using the legal battering ram!

 

Finally, it seems you are probably right in your suspicion that the problem you and others have experienced is a design defect. However, I think you would find it extremely difficult to lay this at Hymer's door. Their warranty is, to all intents and purposes, unenforceable at law, as it is little more than a non-contractual promise by a party with whom you have no contract. What they will accept or reject is not subject to review by any greater authority.

 

You will have much wider legal powers under consumer legislation, but only against the dealer who sold you the van. For this reason alone I would think twice about trying to switch dealers, because if you do, you may well weaken any case you may have against the supplying dealer should dealer two also fail to give satisfaction.

 

My final thought is to contact other Hymer dealers and openly explain your problem, who supplied your van, and why you have now limited faith in them, and ask if they are aware of this problem with the MLT, and if so what Hymer have done to remedy the problem. You could also ask them if they would take on the necessary work to your van under Hymer's warranty. If this seems acceptable it would be by far the simplest way out, but you'd need some degree of confidence that the person you are speaking to has the authority to commit the dealer to taking on the work on a van they didn't supply. Some will, some won't!

[Twemlow]

We're the ones who started this thread. We haven't got anywhere with the dealer or direct with Hymer who say there is not a problem. We also have been in contact with a couple who bought theirs from another dealer and they have had the same negative response. We have had air suspension fitted and have only tried it out for a week in this country but it seems to be working ok. The chap who fitted the air suspension had also fitted another MLT that had a badly damaged waste tank caused by grounding.

We're about to go of to Europe for three months and hope that the problem is now solved.

Please get in contact if you would like further details of our dealings with the seller and Hymer

[Archiesgrandad]

If the problem lies in the straps catching on the ground because they are disposed transversely rather than longitudinally, would there be any benefit in fitting some skids or straps in the longitudinal plane so that the existing straps are not damaged by grounding, and also reduce the chances of damage to the tank. I remember being surprised how little we had to add to the front of the silencers on my rally Minis to stop the rocks dragging the exhaust off.

AGD

[Derek Uzzell]

When I retrofitted a larger-capacity waste-water tank to my Herald motorhome I cladded the tank’s sides, ends and base with galvanised sheet steel. This was primarily to provide lateral support to the long narrow tank that was attached to the chassis via two longitudinal steel straps (one near each end of the tank) but it also protected against road debris thrown up by the vehicle’s rear wheels and against grounding as the clearance under the bigger tank was less than before.

 

I expect it would be practicable to fit some sort of protective metal ‘undertray' to a Hymer MLT’s waste-water tank that would allow the tank’s underside to ground with impunity, or to add skids/straps as you suggest. But when the problem seems to be well recognised (at least by unfortunate owners!) it shouldn’t really be necessary for buyers of motorhomes costing around £70k to be addressing this design inadequacy themselves.

[Heidi 1]

Thank you everyone for your helpful comments. We are away in our motorhome at present and do not always have Internet. We bought our Hymer new from a Hymer dealer last year and are probably too forgiving for our own good. We like to give people chances to put things right, but obviously this is not going to happen - at least anytime soon.

 

As there is obviously a problem and we cannot use the motorhome as intended we might have to take things further. I should expect that Hymer will do a modification. We have not heard back yet from the dealer but have now sent photographs of the damage. When we return home we shall take your advice about trading standards.

 

We are trying to be super careful and are limited to which campsites we can use. Just hoping we don't damage the actual tanks before returning home!

[lennyhb]

You are unlikely to damage the tanks as they are in a GRP enclosure with 30mm of styrofoam insulation.

[Twemlow]

We considered longitudinal straps with the MLT but this is quite difficult due to the structure of the chassis. Otherwise Hymer would probably have done this, as they do on some of their Fiat based motorhomes.

We currently go round looking underneath other peoples motorhomes!

Air assist suspension would seem to be the answer but as yet we haven't fully tested this out in all practical situations (we're off on a ferry next week).

To date the dealer and Hymer refuse to acknowledge that there is a problem. Hymer have only suggested a Mercedes standard part i.e. a spacer in the leaf springs, but this would be our responsibility (and a minimal increase in ground clearance).

[Wiggy]

Hi Everyone

I also have a Hymer MLT mine is a MLT560 - identical to the MLT580 except for the rear bed the 560 has a transverse double and the 580 two singles

I have also had problems with the rear waste water tank and the supporting straps grounding - the tank is sited in a insulated box slung behind the rear axle with two chunky straps (but then they would have to be to support the weight of the water) we purchased in November 2014 changing from a Carthago on a twin rear wheel Iveco chassis with loads of ground clearence

It came as quite a shock how low the tank is, we have the motorhome rated at 4.2 tonnes so plenty of payload - we first grounded the tank and pulled of the rearmost strap leaving a campsite in Holland last Easter.

Then did it a second time climbing a hill on a single track road in Scotland last summer turning left and off came the strap again

On our way home we wild camped in an old road lay-by and turning around to park not only pulled off the strap but pulled off the rear edge of the tank installation on the construction down to the polystyrene - which we had repaired and the finish to the insulation renewed

I have spoken twice to the main Hymer dealer in the UK to discuss this major problem but they say that the motorhome was fully tested and verified by Hymer and it is fully fit for purpose

I also have discussed that the rear axle requires the Goldschmit air assistance to raise the rear axle but guess what they will gladly sell me for not much change from £1000

To fully use the motorhome as we wish the rear axle will for me without a doubt require raising with a semi air airbag assistance system and Im shopping around for such a suitable but sensibly priced system as the dealer just doesn't want to help!!

The motorhome drives great handles well but with the usual mercedes roll but the rear ground clearance is a big problem that you have to be ultra careful about

I hope this information helps anyone considering a motorhome from the now much expanded MLT family - I would expect the now even longer MLT and MLI 620 has an even bigger overhang and grounding issue

Wiggy

[PJay]

i find it incredible that you have paid a lot of money for your motorhomes and have all these problems .

If we do come out of the EU , I imagine these sort of problems will get more difficult to solve .

Maybe m,ore people will buy Uk made Vans?? You don't hear of design problems with them. If more bought Uk made, hopefully the built quality (which is what appears to be the reason for not buying) will improve, as they would have a larger market

Having a Uk made van for 10 years , we have never had these major setbacks, and you get replies from the manufacturers if you need help

 

I hope you all get your vans sorted out

We fitted dunlop air suspension , and now get a nice smoother ride and better cornering

PJay

[Derek Uzzell]

PJay - 2016-05-16 9:17 AM

 

...Maybe more people will buy Uk made Vans?? You don't hear of design problems with them...

PJay

 

Surely you jest?

[Brock]

There is an article in the Hymer Club International's June newsletter where grounding had driven a metal gird into the fibreglass cover over the freshwater tank on a Hymer MLT 580.

 

Paul Macey at Lowdhams Nottingham covered the split with metal caravan chequer plate, made it waterproof, and put it all back together again. Dunlop Air Rides have also been fitted.

 

It seems the damage was done when leaving a fuel station which I can emphasise with as my previous Hymer's midships mounted locker use to ground when leaving my local Shell garage. MY current Hymer doesn't.

[madmick]

Another MLT (580) owner here!

 

Hopefully, I've managed to attach two photos of the insulated waste/fresh water tanks.

 

Photo 1: Looking from the nearside to the rear. You can see the centre and rear straps, the fresh water drain point (white plastic widget in front of centre strap), and waste water outlet (behind offside mud flap).

 

I'm pitched on a fairly level hardstanding, have 90 litres of fresh water on board, and stored across the very rear of the garage is an electric bike (25kg), bike rack (10kg), spare wheel (25kg), 2 tables, and two chairs. Rear tyre pressures are 70-72 psi.

 

Clearance from the straps to the ground is 18-19cm.

 

Photo 2: Looking from the nearside to the front.

 

For info, the MLT 560/580 is built on the medium wheelbase Sprinter chassis cab. 3500kg chassis with 129bhp engine is standard, although most seem to be ordered on the 3880kg chassis with 163bhp engine and auto gearbox. I've also come across a couple with the V6 motor under the bonnet. Garage capacity is 350kg (standard), 450kg (optional).

 

The Hymer safety package would appear to consist of front and rear anti-roll bars, plus replacement rear shock absorbers. All painted yellow (see photo 2). Any Hymer mechanics out there?

 

This seems to have beefed up the Merc suspension so much, that, to my mind, the ride is too harsh! We certainly don't need rear steadies!

 

No grounding to date, but it's early days and we haven't been on a ferry.

 

Mick

 

[Wiggy]

A further update from me on our MLT 560 grounding

Having explored the costs and options on fitting air assistance to the rear axle, I came across a further issue to share with all MLT owners - Hymer in their wisdom have built the motorhome on a special low chassis from Mercedes which limits the options for the manufacturers who supply and fit air assistance as not all manufacturers of the airbags can be used with the Mercedes chassis i.e. Some airbags don't have enough clearance to operate correctly

Please when looking at what you wish to do, share your chassis number and type with your air suspension supplier and fitter to prevent future further problems

We have this week taken our MLT560 to Ireland for a couple of weeks sailing from Fishguard to Rosslare and guess what - we grounded on the ramp loading onto the ferry - thank goodness no damage done as I was driving down the ramp ultra slow with my fingers crossed

Regards

Wiggy

:-(

[Twemlow]

We are currently in Budapest, Hungary parked next to an almost new German registered MLT 580. Low and behold the rear suspension has been lifted by approx 50 mms compared to our problematic 2015 model. The German owner has been very obliging in answering all our questions. His MLT is a standard current model to which he has made no modifications or additions. On looking underneath the standard Mercedes leaf springs have been raised by additional spacers and the clearance under the spars on the waste tank is now substantially improved.

When we return home next month we will once again contact our dealer.

We think the most disappointing aspect is that both the dealer and Hymer have continually told us and other MLT owners that there is no problem and they have taken no responsibility to date for the troubles we have had.

 

[Brian Kirby]

I assume you've persuaded the owner to let you take pictures of his modified suspension, so that you have evidence for future use? It may also be worth taking a pic of his type plate, which will give you the build number as well as chassis number, if the owner is agreeable. Then, your dealer can get all the details of his van from Hymer's database. Should help to cut down on the prevarications.

[madmick]

Wiggy - 2016-06-30 4:06 PM

 

A further update from me on our MLT 560 grounding

Having explored the costs and options on fitting air assistance to the rear axle, I came across a further issue to share with all MLT owners - Hymer in their wisdom have built the motorhome on a special low chassis from Mercedes which limits the options for the manufacturers who supply and fit air assistance as not all manufacturers of the airbags can be used with the Mercedes chassis i.e. Some airbags don't have enough clearance to operate correctly

Please when looking at what you wish to do, share your chassis number and type with your air suspension supplier and fitter to prevent future further problems

We have this week taken our MLT560 to Ireland for a couple of weeks sailing from Fishguard to Rosslare and guess what - we grounded on the ramp loading onto the ferry - thank goodness no damage done as I was driving down the ramp ultra slow with my fingers crossed

Regards

Wiggy

:-(

[madmick]

Useless! I meant to reply to the above quote but failed miserably.

 

Anyway, after doing some digging, it seems that Hymer build the MLT on the standard merc chassis:

 

540 (SWB)

 

560/580 (MWB)

 

620/630 (LWB)

 

and not on the low frame chassis as suggested (which has totally different wheelbases and gross weights).

 

Right, let's try again.

 

 

[Derek Uzzell]

That was also my understanding regarding the Hymer’s Mercedes chassis specification (ref my earlier posting of 20 December 2015 9:09 AM).

 

I looked under a Hymer MLT when I was at Highbridge Caravans last Tuesday. There seemed to be a reasonable amount of ground clearance beneath the rear water-tank securing straps, but obviously the vehicle at Highbridge was unloaded. The plastic fresh-water drain point looked very vulnerable though, and it was plain that the design of the lateral straps meant that they had the potential to ‘catch’ on obstructions beneath the motorhome.

[Graham Crow]

I have a Hymer MLT 630 and am experiencing the same issues as you.

What was the outcome of your discussions with the dealer and Hymer.

How did you finally resolve the issue?

[Twemlow]

Sorry to hear you also have a problem with your new MLT 630 which we believe is on the longer wheelbase. We assumed the problem had been solved with the 2016 MLTs by raising the rear suspension (something Hymer had assured us was unnecessary and possibly detrimental). Please check your inbox for a more detailed reply.

[weldted]

whilst not a Hymer I have just fitted VB semi air to my 2012 Elddis Aspire, 15 psi raises the van at the rear jacking points ( just at the front of the rear springs) approx 25 mm when fully loaded this dropped to 18 mm,

Increased to 20 psi back up to 25 mm all up weigh now 3770 out of mam of 3850.

[curdle]

I have read this thread with interest because I am waiting for delivery of a Hymer MLT 570 in August. It is the 4x4 version so will be higher off the ground than the standard 4x2 but my concern is the axle loadings. With the 4x4 conversion and other kit it became clear that trying to keep the vehicle under 3500kg was a non starter so I have opted to upgrade to 4050kg. Even with this there is not much allowance and I am convinced that many motorhomes must unwittingly travel overloaded. Goldschmidtt have apparently developed a semi system suitable for the Sprinter rear axle - if anyone has fitted it I would be grateful if you could let me know what you think of it. (Other makes are apparently not suitable because of the extended 100l water tank on the 4x4)

[curdle]

Hello, I have ordered an MLT to be especially built. May I know the name of the seller because your account is quite alarming?